AceBandage
Banned
I don't think there's a dislike for Japanese games, per say.
Just the formulaic RPGs that come out.
Just the formulaic RPGs that come out.
Honestly? I blame this on Squenix. The DQ formula seems like it got its first real shake up in terms of mechanics just recently with DQ IX (which the west hasn't gotten yet), and FF13 represents what a lot of people dislikes about JRPGs. When you look smaller, then you find the awesome stuff like Persona, or TWEWY, or NierHimuro said:What formulaic jrpg? Most of the jrpgs released this gen's console hardware are anything but formulaic.
To add another example, Demon's Souls has gotten practically never-ending praise.The_Technomancer said:Honestly? I blame this on Squenix. The DQ formula seems like it got its first real shake up in terms of mechanics just recently with DQ IX, and FF13 represents what a lot of people dislikes about JRPGs. When you look smaller, then you find the awesome stuff like Persona, or TWEWY, or Nier
Himuro said:- Whether it's an action game - "Oh God, Mikami's making another action game? I hope it doesn't have shit controls. Japanese games never seem to have good controls in games, ever. Why are they so behind?" while at the same praising a game like Grand Theft Auto IV five seconds later.
I think it's really weird though that DQ gets singled out by Western gamers as being stale or formulaic. It's not very popular here...I really doubt most complainers have really examined the series and seen the various innovations it has brought to gaming throughout its existence. I think many don't realize or appreciate the narrative innovations in 4 or 5, for example, and just see them as plain RPGs with boring mechanics.The_Technomancer said:Honestly? I blame this on Squenix. The DQ formula seems like it got its first real shake up in terms of mechanics just recently with DQ IX (which the west hasn't gotten yet), and FF13 represents what a lot of people dislikes about JRPGs. When you look smaller, then you find the awesome stuff like Persona, or TWEWY, or Nier
The_Technomancer said:Honestly? I blame this on Squenix. The DQ formula seems like it got its first real shake up in terms of mechanics just recently with DQ IX (which the west hasn't gotten yet), and FF13 represents what a lot of people dislikes about JRPGs. When you look smaller, then you find the awesome stuff like Persona, or TWEWY, or Nier
demosthenes said:Squenix used to be a trend setter. They got afraid, and now they're just following the crowd.
Jonnyram said:The issue is that Western games have progressed, improved, and massively raised the bar. Japanese games are still the same as they were last gen. Developers are not developing, so to speak. They are just churning out the same stuff.
From a structural standpoint, the way that DQ played around with narrative and generations and such, yes, the series has been very innovative over the years, but from a mechanical standpoint, it seems to have remained "run around a large world in a semi-linear way encountering random monsters and fighting with the exact same battle system as the NES"Y2Kev said:I think it's really weird though that DQ gets singled out by Western gamers as being stale or formulaic. It's not very popular here...I really doubt most complainers have really examined the series and seen the various innovations it has brought to gaming throughout its existence. I think many don't realize or appreciate the narrative innovations in 4 or 5, for example, and just see them as plain RPGs with boring mechanics.
demosthenes said:Squenix used to be a trend setter. They got afraid, and now they're just following the crowd.
The_Technomancer said:Honestly? I blame this on Squenix. The DQ formula seems like it got its first real shake up in terms of mechanics just recently with DQ IX (which the west hasn't gotten yet), and FF13 represents what a lot of people dislikes about JRPGs. When you look smaller, then you find the awesome stuff like Persona, or TWEWY, or Nier
Open Source said:The cultural gap also is a turn-off.
Open Source said:I dislike many Japanese games because they haven't evolved enough since NES days.
MechDX said:Hate to beat a dead horse but the best example is still RE5 vs Dead Space. Dead Space is what RE should have evolved into.
my sentiments exactlyJonnyram said:The issue is that Western games have progressed, improved, and massively raised the bar. Japanese games are still the same as they were last gen. Developers are not developing, so to speak. They are just churning out the same stuff.
Jonnyram said:The issue is that Western games have progressed, improved, and massively raised the bar. Japanese games are still the same as they were last gen. Developers are not developing, so to speak. They are just churning out the same stuff.
I didn't say anything about the writing in DQ. I agree, DQ has been a beacon of consistent writing and interesting stories. But the problem was that the mechanics barely evolved, something I'm glad to see IX addressing, as it bodes well for the future of the series.thetrin said:DQ? One of the consistently well written and consistently awesome RPG series? Seriously?
People just hate on what they don't understand, and there are a lot of console gamers this generation that didn't play 2 generations ago. They don't really get Japanese games (no matter how similar they can actually be to Western titles).
Also, there's the constant "LOL ANIMU" bullshit, which gets on my nerves.
ShockingAlberto said:Oh hey, it's this thread again.
This might be the case, i can't think of as many memorable japanese titles for consoles as i can for handhelds.Because Japan moved to handheld gaming (smart choice!) and the West views that as a downgrade.
The_Technomancer said:I didn't say anything about the writing in DQ. I agree, DQ has been a beacon of consistent writing and interesting stories. But the problem was that the mechanics barely evolved, something I'm glad to see IX addressing, as it bodes well for the future of the series.
Lazy vs Crazy said:Outside of Nintendo and Capcom, there just aren't that many truly fantastic grade A games coming out of Japan these days. I mean look, Nintendo and Capcom have always been at the top. But the other devs just aren't releasing stuff of the same quality or at nearly the same rate as last generation. In the PS2 era, a month didn't go by where there wasn't a great Japanese developed game released. Now we're lucky to get three or four in a year.
Which makes me sad because I generally prefer Japanese developed games.
I enjoyed RE5 much more than Dead Space, although I also liked Dead Space.MechDX said:Hate to beat a dead horse but the best example is still RE5 vs Dead Space. Dead Space is what RE should have evolved into.
And no random battles, don't forget. The problem I had with the DQ mechanics was/is that while they keep the good stuff from game to game, they also always retained the infuriating stuff like, well, random battles.thetrin said:Well, to be honest, DQ has stayed the same because the fans wanted it to stay the same. The mechanics have always just been the vehicle by which the player experiences the world, rather than the main attraction of the interaction (such as in FF).
DQIX is really not all that different. It just has a number of side quests and the ability to design your own character. It's still DQ.
demosthenes said:Squenix used to be a trend setter. They got afraid, and now they're just following the crowd.
S1lent said:I've noticed and been bothered by this trend as well. Not sure where it comes from.
This. Not to mention the sales disappointment Dead Space as a franchise has been.Himuro said:I think the RE5 vs Dead Space argument is the best take on Japanese vs Western gaming philosophy.
RE5 shouldn't have "evolved" into what Dead Space is. RE5 is a totally different type of game.
RE5 is a game based around limitations -- whether mechanical or control-wise -- to create a game with tension to enhance the gameplay.
Dead Space is a game where freedom in controls allows you ease of access to do whatever the fuck you want so long as the game allows it.
It's a conflict between two game design ideologies. One is pre-dominantly Japanese; the other is pre-dominantly western.
I see no reason as to why RE should be like Dead Space as that puts more Dead Space's on the market and less RE's. Variety is good. Every game doesn't have to play the same or control the same.
They still have random battles, you can just see the enemies now. The encounter system basically works the same way as ever, but you can see the guys now.The_Technomancer said:And no random battles, don't forget. The problem I had with the DQ mechanics was/is that while they keep the good stuff from game to game, they also always retained the infuriating stuff like, well, random battles.
I've always found both games fairly equal i never got the whole "dead space is what RE5 should have been" argument i hear a lot. RE5 does things better then DS, and dead space does certain things better then RE5.TheFLYINGManga_Ka said:I enjoyed RE5 much more than Dead Space, although I also liked Dead Space.
Lazy vs Crazy said:Outside of Nintendo and Capcom, there just aren't that many truly fantastic grade A games coming out of Japan these days. I mean look, Nintendo and Capcom have always been at the top. But the other devs just aren't releasing stuff of the same quality or at nearly the same rate as last generation. In the PS2 era, a month didn't go by where there wasn't a great Japanese developed game released. Now we're lucky to get three or four in a year.
Which makes me sad because I generally prefer Japanese developed games.
What is it about them being Japanese which grabs your imagination? I'm not looking to troll or anything, just curious as to what themes/mechanics/flavours grab youLazy vs Crazy said:Which makes me sad because I generally prefer Japanese developed games.
Yeah I kinda assumed this thread was about console gaming because handheld gaming is still largely dominated by Japanese developed games.thetrin said:They're coming out. Just not in America. A lot of great games are being passed for localization these days.
Also, there are PLENTY of awesome Japanese games coming out, but if people don't want to consider the DS worth playing, then you miss out on a lot of them.
Pureauthor said:Because Japan moved to handheld gaming (smart choice!) and the West views that as a downgrade.
Jonnyram said:The issue is that Western games have progressed, improved, and massively raised the bar. Japanese games are still the same as they were last gen. Developers are not developing, so to speak. They are just churning out the same stuff.