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jeff_rigby · Apr 27, 2012

3rdman said:
Dude...let go of the dream of another Cell-powered device. It was a complete and total failure...why in the hell would they keep dumping money into R&D on a CPU that nobody wants to use, is more expensive, and doesn't have a noticeable bump in graphics compared to their competitors?

As far as BC is concerned, I think your best hope is that they go through the trouble of porting the PStore titles to avoid problems but disc-based games will likely not be supported.

All IMO, of course...

That is an incorrect statement. The research papers on Cell and it's use in medical equipment, Military radar systems and in the fastest computer in the world supports the cell in 2005-2008 was the most advanced CPU for certain use cases. Because IC design hit a physics wall the industry has turned to hundreds of CPUs at slower clock speeds exceeding a few highly clocked CPUs at power efficiency/heat generation which limits the number of faster CPUs in a package. Heat is the enemy and any efficiency both in physical design and programming is needed in next generation Game consoles.

A few SPUs could be used or a few X86 CPUs or a combination but because of their high clock speeds they are inefficient and generate heat. So a few fast CPUs and hundreds of slower GPU elements that are modeled from Cell prototype designs ideas are used for next generation CPU and a separate dedicated GPU for either heat issues or to separate function when needed due to memory bandwidth.

The above was recognized by IBM in 2008 and IBM turned to AMD for their GPUs. In 2007-2008 IBM was testing Nvidia GPUs (running CUDA) against Cell and developed a OpenCL library for the Cell processor and because Nvidia (my opinion) would not release anything but CUDA to support their GPUs, IBM turned to AMD. By 2010 IBM dropped Cell in favor of GPUs and OpenCL. Sony could still have used a 24 SPU chip clocked lower than the PS3's Cell 3.2Ghz and used eDRAM in the same package and it would have been close to the same functionality of the current AMD APU rumored in the PS4. I'm guessing the AMD roadmap both design efficiency and features as well as production costs had Sony going with AMD.

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

3rdman said:
Dude...let go of the dream of another Cell-powered device. It was a complete and total failure...why in the hell would they keep dumping money into R&D on a CPU that nobody wants to use, is more expensive, and doesn't have a noticeable bump in graphics compared to their competitors?

As far as BC is concerned, I think your best hope is that they go through the trouble of porting the PStore titles to avoid problems but disc-based games will likely not be supported.

All IMO, of course...

LOL I never did get these CELL people, anyone with 1\2 a brain knew it was going to flop 4 years ago.

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

jeff_rigby said:
That is an incorrect statement. The research papers on Cell and it's use in medical equipment, Military radar systems and in the fastest computer in the world supports the cell in 2005-2008 was the most advanced CPU for certain use cases. Because IC design hit a physics wall the industry has turned to hundreds of CPUs at slower clock speeds exceeding a few highly clocked CPUs at power efficiency/heat generation which limits the number of faster CPUs in a package. Heat is the enemy and any efficiency both in physical design and programming is needed in next generation Game consoles.

A few SPUs could be used or a few X86 CPUs or a combination but because of their high clock speeds they are inefficient and generate heat. So a few CPUs and hundreds of slower GPU elements that are modeled from Cell prototype designs ideas are used for next generation CPU and a separate dedicated GPU for either heat issues or to separate function when needed due to memory bandwidth.

Denial obviously ain't just a river in Afrika

So where are all the Cell based multi-media and consumer devices we were promised?

jeff_rigby · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
Denial obviously ain't just a river in Afrika

So where are all the Cell based multi-media and consumer devices we were promised?

Coming, in the Toshiba 4K TVs. There are still use cases where cell or cell derivative is still the best choice and media is one of them. 4K and 8K resolution is going to require very fast CPUs that can't operate as hundreds of slower GPU elements. There is still a need for a FEW fast CPUs in a game console, not everything can be done with multiple slower CPUs.

joshwaan · Apr 27, 2012

Thanks for all the informative post Jeff

Do you think that Microsoft will 3D stack on there next Xbox?

deadlast · Apr 27, 2012

Not sure if this has already been discussed, but what is the chance of Sony moving to the PowerXCell for their next processor?
Would that allow for BC with current PS3 cell processor ?

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

jeff_rigby said:
Coming, in the Toshiba 4K TVs. There are still use cases where cell or cell derivative is still the best choice and media is one of them. 4K and 8K resolution is going to require very fast CPUs that can't operate as hundreds of slower GPU elements. There is still a need for a FEW fast CPUs in a game console, not everything can be done with multiple slower CPUs.

Jeff no offence I appreciate your response but this sounds like EXTREME wishful thinking

4K TV's are still ATLEAST 3 years out from being in the hands of the average consumer and even then most question the need for these display devices when there's NO plans by anyone to provide any actual 4K source content and no real need for 4K televisions unless you have an 80+ inch screen.

4k TV's are a fantasy by the TV manufactures to try and keep selling $2000+ now that 3D has flopped and by the time an actual 4K tele shows up anywhere they'll be far more efficient processors than cell to serv these needs.

Angelus Errare · Apr 27, 2012

Just want to point out that Toshiba's Regza "X" and "Z" line of TVs use Cell processor. The 55X3 which is their 4K flagship is out (Only $6,000). It runs on Toshiba's Cevo-Duo Engine which is basically a bunch a Cells ontop of one another. Then they have their multimedia TVs the X2 (55V) which was replaced with the XE2 series (55V and 46V) use 1 Cell processor for managing multiple feeds at the same time. Then the Z line uses them as well.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/regza/lineup/x3/index_j.htm

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

Angelus Errare said:
Just want to point out that Toshiba's Regza "X" and "Z" line of TVs use Cell processor, 55X3 which is their 4Kx2K flagship is out (Only $6,000). It runs on Toshiba's Cevo-Duo Engine which is basically a bunch a Cells ontop of one another. Then they have their multimedia TVs the X2 (55V) which was replaced with the XE2 series (55V and 46V) use 1 Cell processor for managing multiple feeds at the same time. Then the Z line uses them as well.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/regza/lineup/x3/index_j.htm

Please direct me to a storefront or even an Amazon site selling these sets today, these are extreme niche devices that will most likely NEVER be mass produced.

Where is the 4K content, how is it going to be delivered?

This CNET article sums it up nicely
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57366319-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid/

jeff_rigby · Apr 27, 2012

joshwaan said:
Thanks for all the informative post Jeff

Do you think that Microsoft will 3D stack on there next Xbox?

They already did on the Xbox360S. The back and forth here is about the method of stacking with 3D wafer stacking POTENTIALLY being the most economical but since VERY new unproven.

jeff_rigby · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
Jeff no offence I appreciate your response but this sounds like EXTREME wishful thinking

4K TV's are still ATLEAST 3 years out from being in the hands of the average consumer and even then most question the need for these display devices when there's NO plans by anyone to provide any actual 4K source content and no real need for 4K televisions unless you have an 80+ inch screen.

4k TV's are a fantasy by the TV manufactures to try and keep selling $2000+ now that 3D has flopped and by the time an actual 4K tele shows up anywhere they'll be far more efficient processors than cell to serv these needs.

Sony has in excess of 60 4K movies and growing. 3 years out to mass produced 4K TVs in the hands of consumers is about right. Jan 2013 for the codec to be used and a few months later blu-ray 4K players will arrive on the market that can deliver a 20% better 1080P picture to your 1080P starting with 4K media and down converting.

Most of your points are accurate but larger screens are going to be practical, Head mounted displays are coming and we have to start sometime and the best place to start is with the media players blu-ray and game consoles.

The AMD APU can support 4k as well as 3-D and multiple screens.

Oh, mentioned by the SONY CTO was also FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Arrays) that can process some types of information MUCH faster than DSPs or GPUs or Cell or X86. FPGAs to this point have been horribly expensive but with 3D wafer Stacking the price is expected to go down and their use in multiple hardware platforms expanded. Multiple Heterogeneous CPUs all running under OpenCL

Chittagong · Apr 27, 2012

Sorry if it's been asked already, but what's the difference of an APU and integrated graphics?

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

jeff_rigby said:
Sony has in excess of 60 4K movies and growing. 3 years out to mass produced 4K TVs in the hands of consumers is about right. Jan 2013 for the codec to be used and a few months later blu-ray 4K players will arrive on the market that can deliver a 20% better 1080P picture to your 1080P starting with 4K media and down converting.

Most of your points are accurate but larger screens are going to be practical, Head mounted displays are coming and we have to start sometime and the best place to start is with the media players blu-ray and game consoles.

The AMD APU can support 4k as well as 3-D and multiple screens.

Nope understood and those are valid points but unless you have a very very large set(or sit 2 feet away from your 50 inch) people will NEVER be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 4K, I just really really do not see it catching on for the exact reasons stated in the above CNET article.

phosphor112 · Apr 27, 2012

3rdman said:
Dude...let go of the dream of another Cell-powered device. It was a complete and total failure...why in the hell would they keep dumping money into R&D on a CPU that nobody wants to use, is more expensive, and doesn't have a noticeable bump in graphics compared to their competitors?

As far as BC is concerned, I think your best hope is that they go through the trouble of porting the PStore titles to avoid problems but disc-based games will likely not be supported.

All IMO, of course...

I've already moved on.

Also, if PSN titles are supported, Disc based games will be supported.

You can't have one without the other.

tinfoilhatman said:
Jeff no offence I appreciate your response but this sounds like EXTREME wishful thinking

4K TV's are still ATLEAST 3 years out from being in the hands of the average consumer and even then most question the need for these display devices when there's NO plans by anyone to provide any actual 4K source content and no real need for 4K televisions unless you have an 80+ inch screen.

4k TV's are a fantasy by the TV manufactures to try and keep selling $2000+ now that 3D has flopped and by the time an actual 4K tele shows up anywhere they'll be far more efficient processors than cell to serv these needs.

~~No offense, but shut the fuck up.~~ I kindly ask you not to shit in this thread. I tend not to get mad when people like to discuss things instead of yell at people by telling them they need to prove their info when they already have. Thanks.

StevieP · Apr 27, 2012

deadlast said:
Not sure if this has already been discussed, but what is the chance of Sony moving to the PowerXCell for their next processor?

0%

jeff_rigby said:
They already did on the Xbox360S. The back and forth here is about the method of stacking with 3D wafer stacking POTENTIALLY being the most economical but since VERY new unproven.

Maybe I'm wrong or my brain is out of date on this one, but I don't recall true 3D stacking being used on Valhalla.

phosphor112 · Apr 27, 2012

StevieP said:
Maybe I'm wrong or my brain is out of date on this one, but I don't recall true 3D stacking being used on Valhalla.

Pretty sure it's 2.5

pje122 · Apr 27, 2012

phosphor112 said:
No offense, but shut the fuck up.

Calm down...

jeff_rigby · Apr 27, 2012

StevieP said:
Maybe I'm wrong or my brain is out of date on this one, but I don't recall true 3D stacking being used on Valhalla.

2.5D...3D the benefits are the same except when you get to 3D Wafer stacking with in addition economic benefits. I wasn't unaware of the difference which for arguments sake here is about it being practical in late 3013.

KageMaru believes 3D wafer stacking won't be economically practical but Global Foundries, IBM and Samsung are moving to 3D wafer stacking because it has economic benefits. The other benefits in efficiency can be had with 2.5D and 3D stacking. That IBM provided a combination CPU and GPU in the same package with eDRAM connected with interposer (2.5D) for the IBM360S indicates that game consoles in the future have that as a minimum.

Dreams-Visions · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
Nope understood and those are valid points but unless you have a very very large set(or sit 2 feet away from your 50 inch) people will NEVER be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 4K, I just really really do not see it catching on for the exact reasons stated in the above CNET article.

I think we should wait until we see it for ourselves before rendering judgement.

StevieP · Apr 27, 2012

phosphor112 said:
Pretty sure it's 2.5

jeff_rigby said:
2.5D...3D the benefits are the same except when you get to 3D Wafer stacking with in addition economic benefits. I wasn't unaware of the difference which for arguments sake here is about it being practical in late 3013.

KageMaru believes 3D wafer stacking won't be economically practical but Global Foundries, IBM and Samsung are moving to 3D wafer stacking because it has economic benefits. The other benefits in efficiency can be had with 2.5D and 3D stacking. That IBM provided a combination CPU and GPU in the same package with eDRAM connected with interposer (2.5D) for the IBM360S indicates that game consoles in the future have that as a minimum.

Thought so. Anyway, 3D stacking isn't mature enough to be going into the processes that will be going into these consoles. At least not initially.

Dreams-Visions said:
I think we should wait until we see it for ourselves before rendering judgement.

Mass adoption of 4K at any sort of penetration on the consumer level is about a decade off. We still have television stations that aren't even 720p in North America.

jeff_rigby · Apr 27, 2012

Chittagong said:
Sorry if it's been asked already, but what's the difference of an APU and integrated graphics?

Accelerated Processing Unit with OpenCL support

Essentially the CPU and GPU can both be used as CPUs in addition the GPU can be used for graphics.

SteveP said:
3D stacking isn't mature enough to be going into the processes that will be going into these consoles. At least not initially.

3D stacking has been around for a decade and is a mature process. 3D wafer stacking is what we are talking about.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37309930&postcount=1187 said:
"high-end graphics and CPUs will use it to link to DRAMs and memory stacks" "20 and 28 nm wafers with TSVs can start in the second half of 2013 and ramp into full production in 2014". Description and dates fit with what we expected.

The above could be an indication of only two layer stacking with Memory a pre-packaged stack of 4 or more layers with a TSV bonding layer on the bottom attached to one silicon wafer containing CPU and GPU.

Mr. Wonderful · Apr 27, 2012

Chittagong said:
Sorry if it's been asked already, but what's the difference of an APU and integrated graphics?

It's the complexity of a dedicated GPU, on the chip of the CPU. There's a bunch of little things, but basically, it's closer (data-wise) to the CPU, so data is shifted back and forth easier. I do believe that AMD's APUs have a memory advantage over Intel's current GPUs as well, if I remember what a friend was telling me correctly. Like a couple layers of cache/memory before it has to go to the system RAM?

Edit: I wish my MacBook Pro (which does have a 6490M) had a HD4000 in it, just so that I could have OpenCL support on Integrated. :<

Or a 7000M series GPU for the better GPGPU support. /off-topic

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

Dreams-Visions said:
I think we should wait until we see it for ourselves before rendering judgement.

Did you read the CNet article, do you understand the human eye can only take in so much detail in 1mm square area?

This is science not subjectivity

Angelus Errare · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
Please direct me to a storefront or even an Amazon site selling these sets today, these are extreme niche devices that will most likely NEVER be mass produced.

Where is the 4K content, how is it going to be delivered?

This CNET article sums it up nicely
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57366319-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid/

You responded before I edited, regardless here you are. They're on sell and have been on sell for a while actually. The Z series have been on sale for almost 2 years, and the X series was released in December of 2010 and the new X series with Cevo-Duo was released in December of 2011. But since you asked, I shall provide

Toshiba Regza 55X3 4K Resolution TV

Toshiba Regza 47ZT3

Toshiba Regza 42ZG2

Toshiba Regza 46XE2 (Been on the market since 2010)

And if you want to verify here is Toshiba's jp site, the TV codes are in english so you can see which ones rock Cevo-Duo, Cevo, Cell Regza.

Also, Cevo-Duo which by this posting is old news, is basically Cell with another processor along for the ride. It looks shway

Toshiba-Builds-New-Dual-Core-Platform-for-Regza-HDTVs-2.jpg

Cevo/Cell Regza/Cevo-Duo explained - I know you probably can't read Japanese, so use a translator.

Toshiba has been using Cell with their Regza line since late 2009 until...well now and they still do.

funkystudent · Apr 27, 2012

So have there been any new rumors/leaks or are we in rampant speculation mode right now?

onQ123 · Apr 27, 2012

funkystudent said:
So have there been any new rumors/leaks or are we in rampant speculation mode right now?

well there is the news that Globalfoundries' Fab 8 to Enable 3D Stacking of Chips.

which could include the PS4 chips

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

Angelus Errare said:
You responded before I edited, regardless here you are. They're on sell and have been on sell for a while actually. The Z series have been on sale for almost 2 years, and the X series was released in December of 2010 and the new X series with Cevo-Duo was released in December of 2011. But since you asked, I shall provide

Toshiba Regza 55X3 4K Resolution TV

Toshiba Regza 47ZT3

Toshiba Regza 42ZG2

Toshiba Regza 46XE2 (Been on the market since 2010)

And if you want to verify here is Toshiba's jp site, the TV codes are in english so you can see which ones rock Cevo-Duo, Cevo, Cell Regza.

Also, Cevo-Duo which by this posting is old news, is basically Cell with another processor along for the ride. It looks shway

Cevo/Cell Regza/Cevo-Duo explained - I know you probably can't read Japanese, so use a translator.

Toshiba has been using Cell with their Regza line since late 2009 until...well now and they still do.

Hey those are cool don't get me wrong but the fact that I can't find a single American\english site selling one is a bit telling, that and the fact that their like $7K

I would never even begin to call that a "mass produced consumer device" not even remotely close.

SwimmingwithChickenz · Apr 27, 2012

We need some new next-gen console rumors. I need my fix!

Angelus Errare · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
Hey those are cool don't get me wrong but the fact that I can't find a single American\english site selling one is a bit telling, that and the fact that their like $7K

I would never even begin to call that a "mass produced consumer device" not even remotely close.

You're moving your goal posts a bit. First it was there are no 4K TVs out, then it was there are no companies using Cell. Now its there are no TVs using Cell that are being sold in all regions? You win on technicality that I suck at being a field goal kicker. But the fact they have been on sell since 2009 until now is also telling. Also EU is getting the 4Kx2K TV.

Toshiba's 4Kx2K TV is on sale on Amazon in EU

Edit: Here's another Toshiba TV on sell in the UK that uses Cevo/Cell and it's pretty cheap Toshiba 42WL863B

Edit 2: Here's yet another on sell in EU Toshiba 46YL863B

So now it just leaves the US as the only market that it isn't on sale yet (as far as I can tell).

Gemüsepizza · Apr 27, 2012

SwimmingwithChickenz said:
We need some new next-console rumors. I need my fix!

That's the calm before the storm (E3).

hopefully ^^

Lord Error · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
Hey those are cool don't get me wrong but the fact that I can't find a single American\english site selling one is a bit telling, that and the fact that their like $7K

I would never even begin to call that a "mass produced consumer device" not even remotely close.

I think most of the TVs he linked are not 4K at all. One of them costs $1600 if my conversion is correct.

Sky Chief · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
Jeff no offence I appreciate your response but this sounds like EXTREME wishful thinking

4K TV's are still ATLEAST 3 years out from being in the hands of the average consumer and even then most question the need for these display devices when there's NO plans by anyone to provide any actual 4K source content and no real need for 4K televisions unless you have an 80+ inch screen.

4k TV's are a fantasy by the TV manufactures to try and keep selling $2000+ now that 3D has flopped and by the time an actual 4K tele shows up anywhere they'll be far more efficient processors than cell to serv these needs.

Glasses free 3D tech will spur on 4K TV sets at all sizes. 4K sets are useful for much more than just native 4K material.

Angelus Errare · Apr 27, 2012

Lord Error said:
I think most of the TVs he linked are not 4K at all. One of them costs $1600 if my conversion is correct.

I only linked one that was 4K, I made a note of that hence only one link saying....4K. However all of the TVs I linked use Cell.

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

Lord Error said:
I think most of the TVs he linked are not 4K at all. One of them costs $1600 if my conversion is correct.

Sorry I'm specifically talking about the 4K sets, I guess there's a line of high end TV's with Cell(which is cool) but compared to the rederick from Sony\Toshiba about it taking over the PC market and being in everything from blenders to cars didn't quite happen.

I don't understand why are all those TV on Japanese sites, why wouldn't these be sold in the states under the same name\model?

tinfoilhatman · Apr 27, 2012

Sky Chief said:
Glasses free 3D tech will spur on 4K TV sets at all sizes. 4K sets are useful for much more than just native 4K material.

This is true I just learned this today

Triple U · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
Sorry I'm specifically talking about the 4K sets, I guess there's a line of high end TV's with Cell(which is cool) but compared to the rederick from Sony\Toshiba about it taking over the PC market and being in everything from blenders to cars didn't quite happen.

I don't understand why are all those TV on Japanese sites, why wouldn't these be sold in the states under the same name\model?

Well, they didn't happen because it was stupid and in-practical.

Lord Error · Apr 27, 2012

tinfoilhatman said:
This is true I just learned this today

Yeah, for autostereoscopic TVs, 4K will be a must. But we first need good autostereoscopic TVs

iceatcs · Apr 27, 2012

Sky Chief said:
Glasses free 3D tech will spur on 4K TV sets at all sizes. 4K sets are useful for much more than just 4K material.

I was thinking that retail price is the main lead to who will win. But nowadays it is up to movie studios choose the sides.
Latter with the price of 3DTV camera cheaper than 4K camera, I do think 3DTV will get the first for next gen TV standard. The 4K will become next after standard.

(I hope they will skip 3DTV to 4K (I don't want stuck 1080p for another 5 years)

Angelus Errare · Apr 27, 2012

iceatcs said:
I was thinking that retail price is the main lead to who will win. But nowadays it is up to movie studios choose the sides.
Latter with the price of 3DTV camera cheaper than 4K camera, I do think 3DTV will get the first for next gen TV standard. The 4K will become next after standard.

(I hope they will skip 3DTV to 4K (I don't want stuck 1080p for another 5 years)

Agreed, but I feel that 4K won't take off at all in the US. I mean shit 3DTV is slow as hell to catch on because the average consumer just doesn't give a damn. I mean many of them still buy 720p TVs. =\

tinfoilhatman said:
Sorry I'm specifically talking about the 4K sets, I guess there's a line of high end TV's with Cell(which is cool) but compared to the rederick from Sony\Toshiba about it taking over the PC market and being in everything from blenders to cars didn't quite happen.

I don't understand why are all those TV on Japanese sites, why wouldn't these be sold in the states under the same name\model?

Who knows, ask Toshiba. I guess its because they're all smart TVs that plug into a bunch of online services, and the US hasn't embraced that too much outside of Hulu and Netflix. I'm unsure but isn't TVs with built in DVRs and the like still not adopted in the US thanks to cable companies bitching about third party DVRs and insisting they sell their own DVRs as part of the cable package?

Raistlin · Apr 27, 2012

Lord Error said:
Yeah, for autostereoscopic TVs, 4K will be a must. But we first need good autostereoscopic TVs

Actually it's useful for passive 3D as well (you can do 1080p), which more and more companies are jumping on.

Ashes · Apr 27, 2012

Hmm... I suppose we have to be vague if we are to get anything without getting him in trouble.

Just get him to confirm or deny the rumoured specs in the wild.

Or just leak the specs.

Which console has the more exotic hardware?

i-Lo · Apr 27, 2012

StevieP said:
Ah AMD Markham... (aka formerly ATI *tear*) - I can almost see the building from where I am right now. Ask him how much more specific he can get about the PS4 and XBox CPU's

Yes. Microsoft's console somewhat-recently underwent a bit of a change (toward the more beefy) if the grapevine is correct. That would push it back some months.

Didn't know that you were a resident of Markham.

Anyway, with regards to CPUs (& GPUs) aren't they going to be revised (albeit following the same or similar design principles) to implement the benefits of better power to performance ratios?

Also, any idea if PS4 was beefier before MS decided to go 180 after being in talks with major third party engine devs?

wsippel · Apr 27, 2012

onQ123 said:
well there is the news that Globalfoundries' Fab 8 to Enable 3D Stacking of Chips.

which could include the PS4 chips

Unlikely, as full production isn't expected until some time in 2014, and even then, we're talking low volume high end products for another couple of years. 3D stacking isn't expected to hit consumer devices for another four or five years.

Ashes · Apr 28, 2012

No, no, no. Microsoft should go for it. Take no prisoners!

Proelite · Apr 28, 2012

I am hearing hints of 7850 + discrete 7870 levels of performance out of the PS4. I wonder if ms can establish noticeable advantage in hardware if that's the case.

Triple U · Apr 28, 2012

Even though I like Sonys exclusives a bit better...I suppose that if MS was to put out the stronger box I would switch over. That being said Gears and Halo can fuck off next gen.

SwimmingwithChickenz · Apr 28, 2012

Proelite said:
I am hearing hints of 7850 + discrete 7870 levels of performance out of the PS4. I wonder if ms can establish noticeable advantage in hardware if that's the case.

StevieP said:
Yes. Microsoft's console somewhat-recently underwent a bit of a change (toward the more beefy) if the grapevine is correct. That would push it back some months.

Where are you guys hearing this from? Did something recent come up that I have missed? Any links? Thanks.

Giant Panda · Apr 28, 2012

Triple U said:
Even though I like Sonys exclusives a bit better...I suppose that if MS was to put out the stronger box I would switch over. That being said Gears and Halo can fuck off next gen.

Does a little extra power matter that much to you? You gotta go where the games you want are, whichever platform that may be.

i-Lo · Apr 28, 2012

Giant Panda said:
Does a little extra power matter that much to you? You gotta go where the games you want are, whichever platform that may be.

If it's a matter of "little power" then no. However, substantial power then Xbawks 1st and PS4 purchased at a later date. Of course what constitutes a major difference will only be ascertained post launch. And I don't think it'll make economic sense for MS to build a console way above and beyond PS4 due to its potentially limited usage.

Giant Panda · Apr 28, 2012

i-Lo said:
If it's a matter of "little power" then no. However, substantial power then Xbawks 1st and PS4 purchased at a later date. Of course what constitutes a major difference will only be ascertained post launch. And I don't think it'll make economic sense for MS to build a console way above and beyond PS4 due to its potentially limited usage.

Do you consider PS2 to Xbox power gap being large? From what I've seen posted by some knowledgeable people in here that seems like the largest the gap could be.

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