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Rockstar warns: don't install GTA5 Xbox 360 "play" disc -

M

mocoworm

Member
UPDATE:

DIGITAL FOUNDRY said:
UPDATE: Digital Foundry, which has access to the Xbox 360 version of Grand Theft Auto 5, has offered an explanation for Rockstar's recommendation against installing the "play" disc.

"Rockstar recommends that you shouldn't install the GTA5 play disc on Xbox 360 and it's sound advice," Digital Foundry chief Richard Leadbetter said.

"When you first get the game, the first order of business is installing the mandatory content from disc one - this accounts for 7.7GB of data to install on your hard drive. Now, there's absolutely nothing stopping you installing disc two - the 'play' disc - onto the hard drive too, using the Xbox 360's dashboard to do so. It takes up an additional 7.8GB of storage. However, doing so impacts the game's ability to stream texture data, resulting in regular pop-in of in-game objects and textures.

"So what's the story here? Well, optimal streaming is achieved by making us of all the available bandwidth in the system. Why stream just from the hard drive when you can run in data simultaneously from both the disc and the HDD? Based on what we're seeing on the Xbox 360 version, perhaps running both DVD and HDD assets from just the one source slows down access times, impacting streaming performance. It's not game-breaking stuff, but it does take you out of the moment when it does manifest and for that reason we can't recommend installing the play disc.

"GTA5 isn't available for digital delivery on Xbox Live, but we are curious what the impact - if any - will be on the PS3 version, as that is available as a PSN download. The Digital Foundry Face-Off - due tomorrow morning at 11am - is based on comparison of the two retail disc versions of the game."
Click to expand...

TOP TIPS (XBOX):

alan666 said:
Pin the GTA USB drive to your home menu, if you then click on it with no dvd in the drive it will ask for the game (play) disc, put it in the drive, it will then check the file code/DRM stuff then spin down, it will then read from the USB, get a USB with a light on you will see it working.

I have used both the HDD - Disc way of playing & now the HDD - USB i will continue using the HDD - USB.

People asking about the USB 3.0 yes the X360 is USB 2.0 but with a 3.0 you know for sure it will be fast enough, they are two or three pounds/euros/dollars more than the 2.0, i use 3.0 anyway because my laptop is 3.0.
Click to expand...


ORIGINAL ARTICLE:

Rockstar warns: don't install GTA5 Xbox 360 "play" disc - Install mandatory 8GB "install disc" only.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-16-rockstar-warns-dont-install-gta5-xbox-360-play-disc

Rockstar has warned Xbox 360 gamers not to install the Grand Theft Auto 5 "play" disc.

On Xbox 360 the openworld game comes on two discs: one mandatory "install" disc and one "play" disc, both around 8GB in size. It's a similar situation to Forza 4, which also shipped on two discs on Xbox 360.

Prospective GTA5 owners - some of which already have the game as a result of early shipping from Amazon.co.uk - might have wanted to install both discs, but Rockstar recommends against it.

"For optimal performance, we recommend not installing that disc," tweeted Rockstar Support.

Then, "An 8GB install is required. For optimal performance, we recommend not installing the play disc."

Rockstar has promised more information soon. For now, the upshot is, with GTA5 on Xbox 360, you have to install disc one but run disc two from the drive.
 
F

Foffy

Banned
I assume like GTA IV, this means things are somehow rendered at a slower speed on the HDD than ran from the disc.
 
B

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
I am just throwing this out there, but I am guessing this is because the game expects the installed data is always ready to be streamed from the hdd, and installing the play disc will mean both data will compete for access.
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
I wonder if this will make the game run better than what was seen so far, assuming everyone that streamed installed it fully. I wonder if PSN's full install improves the game also.
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
if you install it to a flash drive, wouldn't that be more optimal? (aren't the flash drive speeds usually faster than HD read speeds)
 
E

EvilKatarn

Member
Halo 3 had a similar warning on it, when they introduced the installing feature. It ended up loading even slower from the HDD than from the disc.

However, when the choice is slow loading times or hearing my 360's drive roar with the power of 50 jet engines then my choice would be the one that won't make me and everyone within a five kilometer radius deaf.
 
Burger

Burger

Member
I have both discs installed (250gb Slim) and haven't noticed any performance issues.

If it's for the sake of a few dropped frames, I'll take the hit, the 360 DVD drive is an abomination in terms of noise.
 
F

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
So, if you buy the game digitally on 360, you'll get terrible frame rate? Is this an issue for the PS3 digital copy as well?

Sounds like Rockstar really dropped the ball.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
maybe they are pulling from both the HD and the Disc at the same time, even with the disc's low bandwidth thats still more bandwidth than would be there if everything were streaming off the HD alone. Maybe they optimized it specifically to be coming from both places at once. Just a guess, I have no clue what is on the play disc, but they would not warn people not to install it if it did not have a good reason to.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
Is this something they can fix so they can be installed in the future? Which one do you primarily have to have in the tray to play SP?
 
Certinty

Certinty

Member
I'll install the game on my slim and won't on my older 360. If the difference is quite big then i'll just play it from the disc regardless of how the disc drive it.
 
Burger

Burger

Member
cackhyena said:
Is this something they can fix so they can be installed in the future? Which one do you primarily have to have in the tray to play SP?
Click to expand...

Disc 1 does nothing, it must install to the HDD through a custom installer (i.e. you don't do it through the dashboard).

Disc 2 is what you need to play the game, although I installed that one through the dashboard. Game seems fine.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
Sounds like the game will have problems when trying to read from two different pools on the HDD at the same time (no shit) so that sucks.

Does the game warn you at all when you first play it? a lot of people will not know this.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
Burger said:
Disc 1 does nothing, it must install to the HDD through a custom installer (i.e. you don't do it through the dashboard).

Disc 2 is what you need to play the game, although I installed that one through the dashboard. Game seems fine.
Click to expand...
I mean, what are they really warning of here? Just glitchy stuff that can happen, or something more serious? If it's glitches, I can deal with it, and if it gets bad enough, just uninstall and do what's recommended.
 
Burger

Burger

Member
Diablohead said:
Sounds like the game will have problems when trying to read from two different pools on the HDD at the same time (no shit) so that sucks.

Does the game warn you at all when you first play it? a lot of people will not know this.
Click to expand...

No.

Seriously, imagine GTA IV but way better looking and a better framerate. That is what GTA V is, both discs installed to the HDD.

I imagine this is for 'a small percentage customers experiencing issues' as otherwise there would be warnings in the manual, or when you play.
 
L

LiK

Member
Diablohead said:
Sounds like the game will have problems when trying to read from two different pools on the HDD at the same time (no shit) so that sucks.

Does the game warn you at all when you first play it? a lot of people will not know this.
Click to expand...
curious about this as well. Should've been a warning in the game or on a paper slip in the box.
 
B

BruiserBear

Banned
FlyinJ said:
So, if you buy the game digitally on 360, you'll get terrible frame rate? Is this an issue for the PS3 digital copy as well?

Sounds like Rockstar really dropped the ball.
Click to expand...

I suspect they've designed the PS3 version to work just fine as a download, because they're selling it day one on the PSN store.
 
X

x-Lundz-x

Member
Did no one test this scenario at Rockstar? And maybe they should have included instructions in the box if this was the case. I always install everything without even thinking about it so I'm glad I have forums to find stuff like this out.
 
R

rrs

Member
I got a feeling that the download and disk versions are installed differently, thus issues with the 2 disks being installed seperately and none with DD. Rockstar is more than likely using a database style data cache, which is partically installed with the install disk.
 
Estocolmo

Estocolmo

Member
I just dont install games on the harddrive to reduce loading times, but to radically reduce the volume the Xbox 360 console makes when the disc spins. Why didnt Rockstar think about the noise the Xbox 360 makes when a game isnt installed?
 
A

AyaisMUsikWhore

Member
They should of put that in the case because since so many people are buying it and most aren't paying attention to Twitter or gaming forums like this, they might install the wrong disk.
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
"More details to come" ... I assume they know exactly what is the issue are just not telling us.

This sucks, as most here can attest to, the 360 disk drive can cause deafness and I always install my games.

I wonder if you could put the install disc on to a USB drive, then install the play disc on the HDD?

Would that work?
Click to expand...

This would be doable to. If this works I won't be too sad.
 
Burger

Burger

Member
thecharrr said:
I got a feeling that the download and disk versions are installed differently, thus issues with the 2 disks being installed seperately and none with DD. Rockstar is more than likely using a database style data cache, which is partically installed with the install disk.
Click to expand...

If you read my post above you would see that is indeed the case.

Rockstar should clarify why you shouldn't install both discs.
 
H

hausaffe

Banned
i installed on a slim. hard buffering and pop in textures in the opening scene. like really hard. no textures at all than popping in. maybe that came because of the install?
well i believe them, so i will uninstall and pop in them headphones.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
cackhyena said:
Is this something they can fix so they can be installed in the future? Which one do you primarily have to have in the tray to play SP?
Click to expand...

No. It's a limitation of having a single hard drive on the wire.

You read data the same time you're writing data, your throughput gets halved to accomodate going in both directions at once. Halo 3 had this issue because it cached assets to the HDD when you selected a map.

r-> DVD w-> HDD r-> RAM

When you installed Halo 3 on to the HDD, you were now reading data and writing data to the same HDD.

r->HDD w-> HDD r-> RAM

So you lost bandwidth.

Later Halo titles got around this by being aware of 360 installs and would skip the cache step if they're installed.

GTA5 is probably in a similar situation. Of note, the only 360 game offhand that actually prevents you from installing is another open world game, Crackdown.

In the end the game will still be playable with the install.
 
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