SNES replication of Monalisa:
Genesis Monalisa:
And if someone asked you which one of those two picturers (the sketch vs the pixelated drawing) was hand drawn, would you start talking about taste?
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SNES vs Genesis Sound
- Thread starter Beerman462
- Start date
And if someone asked you which one of those two picturers (the sketch vs the pixelated drawing) was hand drawn, would you start talking about taste?
So krisp.
I know it's been posted, but Midnight Resistance - Flood of Power is damned good.
Reminds me of Pet Shop Boys - It's a Sin but more powerful and gamey.
SNES replication of Monalisa:
Genesis Monalisa:
[/QUOTE]
SNES Version
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBfxrA_dWXk&list=PLB0xooEkKbSYZ7BMtvEP3z6r5njK0DuOj&index=7[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6lMTqoSK4M&list=PLB0xooEkKbSYZ7BMtvEP3z6r5njK0DuOj&index=8[/url]
Genesis Version
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXogaaxTl9s&list=PL442E49A2CC206A9B&index=5[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy0FNi4Ix-E&list=PL442E49A2CC206A9B&index=10[/url]
lol :)
T.Slothrop
Member
I think that Chronos song is the best thing I've heard yet on this thread. Amazing.
ElectricThunder
Member
God the circle is real in terms of folks attaching to the tired old points. FM is a special thing unto itself, though MIDI can wrangle with something in the hands of sacred monsters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTraSI6LMaI
Always room next to the fire where we damn not only YAMAHA, but ROLAND(
) for what was and could've been grander still if only they had true courage among other things...
Here, something positive/edutaining instead---Norrin Radd being rad, as Norrin Radd is wont to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1nSnnzGBUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gtI6yzXTqc
Folks needs to understand Spirit and Feeling more, not lose themselves in an endless technical morass with these SNES ramparts---especially when they threw in the towel compared to the direction they'd made headway(VRC-7 and such) in with the FDS/NES that would've led to a much more robust competition with the Genesis and beyond.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTraSI6LMaI
Always room next to the fire where we damn not only YAMAHA, but ROLAND(
And Sharp in this case
Here, something positive/edutaining instead---Norrin Radd being rad, as Norrin Radd is wont to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1nSnnzGBUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gtI6yzXTqc
Folks needs to understand Spirit and Feeling more, not lose themselves in an endless technical morass with these SNES ramparts---especially when they threw in the towel compared to the direction they'd made headway(VRC-7 and such) in with the FDS/NES that would've led to a much more robust competition with the Genesis and beyond.
Ehh, who cares which is more advanced. They were both pretty limited, and it wasn't like the super nes was so much better that it could do everything the genesis could and more.
I mean you're not probably not gonna hear anything like this out of the snes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vVNoYKKryI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7bVc2KUedo
Anyway, I recently discovered the awesomeness of lethal enforcers I & II. At least, the music is pretty awesome, idk about the games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3FSdzO4YpI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ0Lj2NF6tc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8gh2zCEGYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogdoEoZRVeA
The instruments sound just like hard corps.
Have you heard this pc speaker one?
https://youtu.be/yHXx3orN35Y?t=397
While that's all well and good just remember that he was only 15 when he started doing computer music and used to make his own drivers etc. How they made the beeper produce so many channels is really interesting. remember it's just 1 channel with 10 octaves. You could make sounds by rapidly switching on and off one of the ports. However this lock the processor if you wanted accurate sounds. If you were clever (and people like tim and other beeper programmers were) then you could get 2 or 3 channels out of it. Of course you had to content with the spectrums very limited memory, far more limited than the machine in the video above had.
Discomurf
Member
Do not think that NES had better music than TG-16 at all. TG-16 had more channels and stereo output.
but ohh ohh ohh yes Devil's Crush on TG-16... the greatest video pinball game of ALL TIME.
It's software mixing, essentially. He computes the final resultant sound wave and plays it through the only available channel (or couple of channels as it may be).
Yeah. Really clever stuff. The mixers where usually written either in machine code or assembler. Still he managed to produce some truely amazing music that would run for 5+ minutes as well. His C64 output was probably the best he did though. He really like the SID chip.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
Some of the best of the best Genesis music out there has grown on me over the years. Sonic games are always solid, Thunder Force, etc...but it seems to have a far more limited range than the SNES.
Check out some of Capcom's early games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Fvalk31Kk
https://youtu.be/2wvHrnwCAwE
Compared to the arcade version:
https://youtu.be/V2GfQ-7s_wM?t=20m38s
...I feel like the SNES holds its own in rock music, and can still have fairly punchy bass. Not quite Genesis level kick drum, but I don't feel like the SNES is ever completely outclassed when both are in the hands of a capable composer/programmer.
On the other hand, you'll never find anything on par with the SNES' orchestral sounding stuff on the Genesis. Yeah, it can do some passable stuff, but the SNES has some legit beautiful songs. I do like the effort some remixers have put into recreating some of these on Genesis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfzqNKSxGwo&index=5&list=PL0jbwTITrHXb57Zt68oQcPwnZVh2FB1O5
It's pretty good. But it loses something with the vocal samples in the background IMO.
Check out some of Capcom's early games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Fvalk31Kk
https://youtu.be/2wvHrnwCAwE
Compared to the arcade version:
https://youtu.be/V2GfQ-7s_wM?t=20m38s
...I feel like the SNES holds its own in rock music, and can still have fairly punchy bass. Not quite Genesis level kick drum, but I don't feel like the SNES is ever completely outclassed when both are in the hands of a capable composer/programmer.
On the other hand, you'll never find anything on par with the SNES' orchestral sounding stuff on the Genesis. Yeah, it can do some passable stuff, but the SNES has some legit beautiful songs. I do like the effort some remixers have put into recreating some of these on Genesis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfzqNKSxGwo&index=5&list=PL0jbwTITrHXb57Zt68oQcPwnZVh2FB1O5
It's pretty good. But it loses something with the vocal samples in the background IMO.
s_mirage
Member
I think it just depends on your personal taste. For me, while the best SNES compositions may sound very nice, I'm usually left wondering how much better they'd sound if they were comprised of something better than short, lo-fi, samples. I don't have that issue as much with good FM tracks because they are what they are, rather than being an imitation of something else. But yes, on the occasions where Genesis tracks try to go for an imitation of actual orchestral strings and brass, they're not too impressive. That's why, and I know some people will disagree with me, Story of Thor/Beyond Oasis doesn't impress me much.
UncleSporky
Member
I don't think you really understood what I was driving at, what I was replying to (2 and a half years ago when I made that post).
They said that some people like synth sounds and some people like realistic sounds.
I'm saying looking at it another way, the synth sound is realistic, because it actually is a real instrument all its own. It was only "unrealistic" when audio programmers bent it into contortions to reproduce the sound of other instruments.
It's like saying that a violin is not realistic because when you pluck the strings it's a sad, pale imitation of a harp. That wasn't its intended use. A violin played normally produces a perfectly realistic violin sound.
Same with Genesis audio. It's not at its best mimicking some other instrument, the best results are achieved when it's treated like the actual instrument it is.
EPSYLON EAGLE
Member
MrCunningham
Member
Zyrinx sound driver + Jesper Kyd. This one does sound really good.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
Yeah, I think it can be pretty subjective. Take Turrican: toss a coin on which one I prefer on a given day. Some times I think the SNES samples sound better, sometimes I like the fact that the Master System sound chip works concurrently to give an added layer to it.
I mean, I can listen to this mashup and each time it switches I'm totally fine with it:
https://youtu.be/E0VnVUDlfOI?t=1m50s
It probably just depends on what you grew up with. We had a SNES, my buddy had a SEGA, and I enjoy both.
Rushersauce
Banned
The Genesis gave me this
https://youtu.be/iYNLz8goZdE?list=PL0E86AA386BD11845
HARD CORPS, BAAAAAABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
https://youtu.be/iYNLz8goZdE?list=PL0E86AA386BD11845
HARD CORPS, BAAAAAABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
DarkConfidant
Member
Kuturagu was a wizard with engineering.
The sound chip was a big advancement. FFIV really brought that home.
The Genesis has some nice tunes, but I usually prefer covers because of the sound card's tinny sound.
My man.
The first level in hard corps must've been amazing in 1994.
What a way to start a game lol.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Some sad mentalities, but as how damn tiny that thread is attests to, all too common. :\
MrCunningham
Member
Holy shit, the Genesis version has a great sound track. Doing a quick search shows that this is using the Terpsichorean sound driver that was developed by Hitoshi Sakimoto. Which is also used in Gauntlet IV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brUFB5z1i7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WKKH6OAyS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOagvSmosBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMKNjdcY-Qs
A few other games that use the Terpsichorean sound driver....
Midnight Resistance (always loved the soundtrack for this one):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7-AHModlMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO6eQatd3Ro&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKayhY5ieBI&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_aCjt53TlE
Double Dragon II: The Revenge:
Genesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W03hQXTgDp8
Arcade original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBOeFElnITA&index=2
Genesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNn9rGiPKAE
Arcade original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1FQ7cqXZY
Genesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC0JUsA4Rog&index=8
Arcade original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TkhdErEEQ&index=5
Master of Monsters:
https://youtu.be/DxrllRDbrNc?t=630
https://youtu.be/DxrllRDbrNc?t=886
https://youtu.be/DxrllRDbrNc?t=1147
https://youtu.be/DxrllRDbrNc?t=1381 (this one is fantastic)
tkscz
Member
Then when it came down to it, there isn't really one better than the other so to say. It's more who was better at handling the hardware they had. The SNES being a sampling machine, it would depend on the samples used, and how the developer chose to use them. Developers like Rare, Nintendo and Square could find the perfect balance in sampling and the memory given for it. Thus their music still stands strong today. While on the Genesis, if you could master the synth, then you can make master pieces, but if you couldn't, you essential made noise.
Now I can see why most of music gaf thus far feels Genesis is the better for sound. With synth, you can make music that sounds closer to actual music due to it being an actual instrument. However, one could easily argue that the synth and the hardware didn't have as much of a sound range as sampling does and you really need to have good experience with it to make it count. Essentially, be Yuzo Koshiro or get out.
On the other hand, sampling can come off sounding bland, which can be worse than bad at times, and not all sounds can be created equal unless you were David Wise. But the type of music you get can come so close to actual instruments, that some wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't MIDI. Nobuo Uematsu was the one who had me thinking his music was MIDI as his ability to sample was amazing.
EPSYLON EAGLE
Member
^^^^^^^^
It's a joke right!?
To say that only Koshiro was master in FM synthesis, when there was a whole generation of arcade games based on this song type.
Hitoshi Sakimoto
Oh my! Vocal strings on Genesis!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcOuJKQvP_A&index=10&list=PL3C841A626D3D31F0
It's perfectly possible via PCM channel.
or the Dhana Megami Tenjou ost, unknow composer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRZH5Fh4Gg&index=12&list=PLFSHdeZ6gP01q8kVk6M1L0Ze2GY4L-r-r
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5d0aLqIDQ&list=PLFSHdeZ6gP01q8kVk6M1L0Ze2GY4L-r-r&index=11
It's a joke right!?
To say that only Koshiro was master in FM synthesis, when there was a whole generation of arcade games based on this song type.
Hitoshi Sakimoto
Oh my! Vocal strings on Genesis!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcOuJKQvP_A&index=10&list=PL3C841A626D3D31F0
It's perfectly possible via PCM channel.
or the Dhana Megami Tenjou ost, unknow composer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHRZH5Fh4Gg&index=12&list=PLFSHdeZ6gP01q8kVk6M1L0Ze2GY4L-r-r
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5d0aLqIDQ&list=PLFSHdeZ6gP01q8kVk6M1L0Ze2GY4L-r-r&index=11
Glass Shark
Banned
People always talk about the difference in music on SNES and Genesis, and as someone who owned both as a kid, I don't really understand how they are different.
That said, I just listened to several Genesis "remixes" of Super Mario World music and now I wish I was dead.
That said, I just listened to several Genesis "remixes" of Super Mario World music and now I wish I was dead.
Well, read the thread and find out how they are different. Geckoyamori has a particularly good post explaining what fm synthesis actually is in laymans terms l.
Glass Shark
Banned
What I mean is that I can hear that they are different but I can't really articulate the ways in which they are different in a technical or musical sense.
EPSYLON EAGLE
Member
^^^^
"very convincing" argument Sonic for Super Nes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hOhOl5XdWI&list=PLFpZOVC_hACfa5ToWWgCmCR35TLeFjULO
"very convincing" argument Sonic for Super Nes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hOhOl5XdWI&list=PLFpZOVC_hACfa5ToWWgCmCR35TLeFjULO
Keep in mind that much of the snes music on youtube and places like that are from emulators and thus have all sorts of post processing and interpolation done on them. Thus, the bass can hit harder or the samples can play back in higher quality than they appear on an actual snes.
With real hardware, its obvious to me. Genesis music sounds so rich.
Beerman462
Member
EPSYLON EAGLE
Member
These are one most underrateds Genesis ost's of all time.
Vixen 357
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7HMJdTK5oA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnJrcg3wSo&index=3&list=PLZhwH-JHZxW53CxInKATyCbywalx2XfGN
If you still doubt the Yamaha 2612 capabilities hear this!
Vixen 357
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7HMJdTK5oA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnJrcg3wSo&index=3&list=PLZhwH-JHZxW53CxInKATyCbywalx2XfGN
If you still doubt the Yamaha 2612 capabilities hear this!
1st I heard of this game!!!
That's not PCM. It's just layering several FM channels at slightly detuned pitches for a unison sound.
That's more a case of poor programming than poor capabilities.
You could take a look at the development on the pc side where Wavetable synthesis clearly succeeded Fm synthesis.
The sample based approach is do so much more flexible and the breadth of sounds in the Snes music shows this.
FM is only superior if the music supposed to sound like a synthesizer.
Not that there ain't great tracks in this thread regardless of the platform. 16bit music sounded a lot better than I remembered.
If a platform turns a large number of developers into poor programmers there is something wrong with the platform.
In principle, yes. But the memory ceiling on the SNES imposes such a huge bottleneck that it may as well be a synthesizer. It's only a realistic depiction of recorded instruments at a very surface level, and far from enough to even moderately capture the true scope, detail and natural texture of the instruments being depicted. Several of these aspects which the real-time FM synthesis is actually better at depicting to bring more life and nuance to the music. If you don't care about any of that stuff, then fine, but that doesn't make the lack of all those qualities any less real.
This is like saying keyboards succeeded guitar because edm music is popular right now.
Except the snes chip is not extremely flexible and has trouble with many types of sound. As far as samplr based playback goes, the snes is nothing special at all.
Interpolation does not accentuate extremes and I fail to see how emulation would swap samples for higher quality ones. Maybe there's something funny going on with the emulation or the actual Snes hardware had bad sound quality (like bad DACs or something).
Ive never even played this game before. This is so amazing.
SNES Version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBfxrA_dWXk&list=PLB0xooEkKbSYZ7BMtvEP3z6r5njK0DuOj&index=7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6lMTqoSK4M&list=PLB0xooEkKbSYZ7BMtvEP3z6r5njK0DuOj&index=8
Genesis Version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXogaaxTl9s&list=PL442E49A2CC206A9B&index=5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy0FNi4Ix-E&list=PL442E49A2CC206A9B&index=10
lol
I HAVE played this before (coop too) and this isnt even close. The SNES version sounds like a gamegear. I had no idea SNES players had to go through this, wow. Im so sorry. This is a landslide difference.
No because we are taking about a predefined set of musical pieces. The OSTs of 16bit games. The question is what hardware could make them sound best. With the exact definition of "best" up to personal preferences.
For the similar question "what soundcard can make existing game music sound best" was easily decided.
There's about no case where a Roland mt 32 sounds inferior to a opl2 sound card. Here's a small face off: http://sound.dosforum.de
With lost Vikings you can even compare that to Snes and genesis.
ienjoyrawfish
Member
Streets of Rage 2, Thunderforce III and the classic Sonics are up there with the best OSTs of that generation, but it's still SNES by a considerable margin for me.
You're doing a disservice to your avatar
Well, one big improvement is that SNES hardware plays sound back at 32khz. Emulation rips usually upsample sound quality to 44 or 48khz (or beyond).
The samples are already higher quality than what is output by the SNES, in the binary. The SNES cannot output samples with the clarity that they are stored in (in those specific instances)
...that's not what you were talking about at all. You brought up the evolution of sample based wave tables on PC as some sort of support of the notion that you can compare FM Synth to sample based playback. My analogy is spot on, the keyboard did not evolve from the guitar, just as wave table playback did not evolve from FM Synth. They are entirely different types of instruments.
And further, there are qualifiable attributes of their sound output, "best" is not always a matter of preference. Example - which system offers the clearest output? That is not a preference, it is undeniably the Genesis.
No, you really cannot, considering the soundtrack was originally written for the Amiga in the first place. All you'll get in that comparison is that this particular arrangement of an existing soundtrack wound up better on one piece of hardware than another. There is an infinite number of ways one can rearrange the soundtrack.
s_mirage
Member
Were any of those tracks written specifically to take advantage of the relative strengths and weaknesses of each piece of hardware, or were they written to exploit generic drivers/GM libraries? There's a reason why western PC FM tracks tended to pale in comparison to those produced for Japanese computers (besides the fact that the OPL2 was a pretty weak 2-op synth).
Journey
Banned
Gotcha, but here's the thing, a game console's audio is supposed to be able to reproduce all sorts of sounds, including voices. How do you create the words HADOKEN, SHORYUKEN! with an instrument that's not meant for it? The genesis SF characters sounded like they had a serious case of laryngitis. When you compare two cameras, you don't say one is better than the other if the sole advantage is one camera can take better pictures at night without a flash, but the other beats it overall, day time pictures or night with flash, autofocus, sharpness, noise, white balance, response time. Sure, when it's dark and you don't use the flash you'll have scenarios where that one camera will win, same with genesis, instrumental sounds that suit the Genesis, but overall the SNES was better at creating a wider range of things you threw at it.
That's why Street Fighter II is such a good benchmark, not only does it have a good variety of music from all countries, but a full list of sound effects for every hit and voices. The Crysis for PC benchmark of 16-bit sounds.
https://youtu.be/0zfUhWzmAIE?t=2m25s