• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Was Uncharted 3 made by the same team that did 1 and 2?

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Tomb Raider just has better, immensely more satisfying combat mechanics. Even if the upgrade system was shoe-horned in and kind of worthless, at least you have lots of cool ways to mix up the combat. In Uncharted, you have guns and grenades. Lara also has that cool little dodge move.

That's just mechanics alone, though. There are plenty of other things that Uncharted does better than Tomb Raider, but it just doesn't "feel" great to shoot people. And that's mostly what you do in the game.
The amount of maneuverability you have in Uncharted is overlooked by a lot of people. The combat really comes into it's own when you're constantly on the move and getting headshot after headshot. It's not a game where you should be sitting still behind cover and aiming for body shots.

That said, I do agree that mechanically it could be deeper and needs to be designed in a way that more aggressively requires that you stay on the move.
 

antitrop

Member
I remember ND spokesperson at the time being in denial that there was a difference in aiming between U3 and U2. I couldn't believe it. One weird thing the aiming did was have the camera speed slow down as the reticle passed over an enemy.
Guess they were playing too much Call of Duty.
 

Cloudy

Banned
The amount of maneuverability you have in Uncharted is overlooked by a lot of people. The combat really comes into it's own when you're constantly on the move and getting headshot after headshot. It's not a game where you should be sitting still behind cover and aiming for body shots.

That said, I do agree that mechanically it could be deeper and needs to be designed in a way that more aggressively requires that you stay on the move.

Maneuverability means shit if the actual shooting just isn't fun. I dunno how anyone can play TLoU or TR:DE and think the shooting mechanics in those games isn't the absolute pinnacle of the genre
 
Yeah, but what would cause someone to think that Uncharted 2 is a great game and Uncharted 3 is a bad game. What would cause that kind of gulf of opinion?

Sandstorm

TV%27s_Frank_%26_Dr_Forrester%3B_DEEP_HURTING!.jpg
 

antitrop

Member
Maneuverability means shit if the actual shooting just isn't fun. I dunno how anyone can play TLoU or TR:DE and think the shooting mechanics in those games isn't the absolute pinnacle of the genre

The Holy Trinity of Third Person Shooting Mechanics is Vanquish, Resident Evil 4, and Max Payne 3.
 

Teeth

Member
Tomb Raider just has better, immensely more satisfying combat mechanics. Even if the upgrade system was shoe-horned in and kind of worthless, at least you have lots of cool ways to mix up the combat. In Uncharted, you have guns and grenades. Lara also has that cool little dodge move.

That's just mechanics alone, though. There are plenty of other things that Uncharted does better than Tomb Raider, but it just doesn't "feel" great to shoot people. And that's mostly what you do in the game.

I've only played Uncharted 2 and Tomb Raider, but in asking what would make U2 better than U3 aside from thematic elements...well, encounter design.

From all accounts, ND added in the more complex melee system, so they felt they had to change the enemy and encounter design to facilitate that system. It threw off the very basic structure that U2 had and apparently caused numerous problems with enemies bum rushing you and throwing off previously successful strategies.

U2 was at its best when it motivated the player to utilize the more varied environment and progress through a space to gain an advantage. It was at its weakest when it encouraged a player to stick behind one box and play whack-a-mole at enemies at a distance.

No, wait, scratch that...U2 was at its absolute worst when it threw enemies with exceptionally high health and lethality and very few opportune moments to fight back. Running in circles waiting for the split second you could counter attack was frustrating. I almost thought the game had glitched when I fought the monster for the first time and he wouldn't go down after so many shots (without the super gun).

U3 seemed to add more of the moments...bullet sponge enemies while leaving Drake fragile. Add that to a melee system that, by the nature of its additional complexity and marketing hype, encouraged you to use it, only to get snuffed from the various enemies around because the animations take so long.

Tomb Raider, for all its Uncharted-like automation, added air control and an incredibly slick auto-cover system (which has been one of the few cover systems in a game that never killed me for being too sticky), which improved on the formula. The encounter design generally stayed in a cone of enemies in front of you, so while it lacked the motivation to utilize the environment to your advantage (at least on lower difficulties), it rarely had the portions that felt tedious or unfair. Lara also didn't have quite as much animation lag as Drake does, so the swimmy feeling in the direct movement was mitigated. You could get away faster when closed in on.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Maneuverability means shit if the actual shooting just isn't fun. I dunno how anyone can play TLoU or TR:DE and think the shooting mechanics in those games isn't the absolute pinnacle of the genre
I liked the shooting in TR but I don't think it's notably better than in Uncharted. Max Payne 3's was incredible. TLoU is some next level shit in terms of shooting, but that type of shooting wouldn't work well in Uncharted. One area that I think would immediately take Uncharted's shooting up a notch is considerably improved gun sounds. Uncharted gun sounds are pathetic.
 
Yeah, but what would cause someone to think that Uncharted 2 is a great game and Uncharted 3 is a bad game. What would cause that kind of gulf of opinion?

I don't think uc3 is a bad game per se but it didn't click with me like uc2 did. I feel like uc2 started off with a bang and the pacing kept me going.

Uc3 is the opposite for me. The beginning of that game when you are baby drake was just too slow and plodding for me. I know it is supposed to be giving back story but I would have preferred a shorter cutscen to wrap it all up.

The pacing was my biggest problem with uc3. I was also partial to the setting of uc2. The Himalayas and Tibetan locales are ones that I have always wanted to visit.
 

antitrop

Member
Forgot about Max. But that's definitely one of the best due to the hit detection being unmatched.

I switched out TLoU for Vanquish, because when I came to think about it, TLoU combat is great because of how it mixes the melee and the shooting, but the shooting on its own isn't particularly amazing.

Vanquish is the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit, though. Mikami based God of third person shooting.
 
Maneuverability means shit if the actual shooting just isn't fun. I dunno how anyone can play TLoU or TR:DE and think the shooting mechanics in those games isn't the absolute pinnacle of the genre

they made the shooting the way it was in TLOU because they wanted to make the game tougher and more of a survival game. Uncharted is more laid back and arcadey. I haven't played Tomb Raider since it originally released but i remember not liking the gunplay that much.
 
I liked the shooting in TR but I don't think it's notably better than in Uncharted. Max Payne 3's was incredible. TLoU is some next level shit in terms of shooting, but that type of shooting wouldn't work well in Uncharted. One area that I think would immediately take Uncharted's shooting up a notch is considerably improved gun sounds. Uncharted gun sounds are pathetic.

I just completed TR:DE today. I love the bow but the guns weren't anything special IMO. TLOU is streets ahead of TR in regards to gunplay and visceral combat.
 
Yeah, but what would cause someone to think that Uncharted 2 is a great game and Uncharted 3 is a bad game. What would cause that kind of gulf of opinion?

I can see where you're coming from.

I was feeling the same when I played UC3 as primarily a shooter, but it's once I started embracing the melee combat that I realized how versatile the combat could be, and started having a lot more fun with the game's actual gameplay.

The melee in UC1 was so broken that I didn't even bother with melee in UC2, and I don't think it was until the ship level in UC3 that I said "fuck it" and started punching dudes. It was such a good decision.

I love UC1's setting, narrative, and character interaction's so much, more than the others, and I really hope we see a rerelease with updated melee combat so the enemy encounters aren't so tedious and one dimensional anymore.
 
I switched out TLoU for Vanquish, because when I came to think about it, TLoU combat is great because of how it mixes the melee and the shooting, but the shooting on its own isn't particularly amazing.

Vanquish is the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit, though. Mikami based God of third person shooting.

Vanquish never gets enough credit. The shooting mechanics have to be spot on for that game because it's ridiculously fast. You can really see how good its mechanics are when you watch speedruns for it. They're unlike any other TPS.
 

Neff

Member
I'll never understand ND fans. I thought UC3 was by far the best of the trilogy and easily the least worst ND game.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I switched out TLoU for Vanquish, because when I came to think about it, TLoU combat is great because of how it mixes the melee and the shooting, but the shooting on its own isn't particularly amazing.

Vanquish is the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit, though. Mikami based God of third person shooting.
I do hope ND allows for Uncharted 4 to mix in melee as well as they did in TLoU. Better gun audio, better melee/stealth integration, and soft cover mixed with a slide/roll system could make the combat a lot more dynamic and varied.
 
I remember how broken the stealth was in UC3. It's impossible to stealth that game unless they fixed it later on. It was such a waste of time.
 

camac002

Member
Vanquish is the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit, though. Mikami based God of third person shooting.

Urge rising to break out my copy and get some more trophies in that game. Great game that is 30 fps but somehow played like it was higher fps.

I just completed TR:DE today. I love the bow but the guns weren't anything special IMO. TLOU is streets ahead of TR in regards to gunplay and visceral combat.

Yeah, I just played TLOUR and TRDE back to back and I agree. Enjoyed both. Played TRDE on Hard, had a bit of the old spongey enemy feel of Uncharted 1.
 
UC3 was made sort of by the b team, which kind of makes it somewhat impressive. While sure, it wasnt as good as 2, it's still head and shoulders above pretty much any other game.

As for the TR comparisons, why? TR had fun gameplay but everytving else was mediocre. Forgettable story, boring characters (I seriously remember none of them). Even Lara was incredibly boring. Felt like a poor man's Uncharted but then again that's what they were going for.
 

Cubed

Member
UC3 is the best one. By a wide margin.

I'm not kidding.

It has the best set pieces, graphics, and character interactions, which is all these games are about, honestly.
 

Cloudy

Banned
and character interactions, which is all these games are about, honestly.

Looking forward to this. I personally prefer UC1 to UC2 so maybe I'll end up liking this one the best

As for the TR comparisons, why?

I personally enjoyed TR more than UC 1, 2 and GA (We'll see about UC3) but I was just comparing the shooting.
 

antitrop

Member
Urge rising to break out my copy and get some more trophies in that game. Great game that is 30 fps but somehow played like it was higher fps.

I honestly know what you mean. Ninja Theory's "feel of 60fps" was some ever-lovin' bullshit, but there's definitely something about the way Vanquish plays that makes it feel abnormally smooth for a 30fps game.
 

Game4life

Banned
Maneuverability means shit if the actual shooting just isn't fun. I dunno how anyone can play TLoU or TR:DE and think the shooting mechanics in those games isn't the absolute pinnacle of the genre

TR DE was a very bad game. Yes to TLOU though.
 

Teeth

Member
What about RDR? I remember the gunplay being quite satisfying. It's been a while though.

The guys go down with a nice impact crunch, but the enemy behaviour is exceptionally one dimensional, there is heavy auto aim, and the game seems content to playout exclusively and mid-to-long distances.

It's pretty one dimensional.

But then again...when people talk about "the shooting" in games, there are as many definitions of it as there are opinions.
 

ZeroX03

Banned
UC3 is the best one. By a wide margin.

I'm not kidding.

It has the best set pieces, graphics, and character interactions, which is all these games are about, honestly.

Yeah I've always stood by this, UC3 as the best by far.

Golden Abyss as the absolute worst by far.

What about RDR? I remember the gunplay being quite satisfying. It's been a while though.

Max Payne 3 followed RDR. Haven't played MP3 yet, but everything I've heard makes it sound superior to RDR.
 

Servbot24

Banned
They've admitted that it was rushed



http://www.1up.com/features/mapping-uncharted-3-drake-deception?pager.offset=7

That early date that they gave it was a bad idea, which is why they were so hesitant to announce TLoU's date and why they even delayed it at one point, which is something that they haven't done before. They weren't going to allow it out until they were completely happy with the end product.

UC3's flaws were at a more fundamental level then a few glitches. The the writing phase very well could have been rushed too I suppose.
 

antitrop

Member
What about RDR? I remember the gunplay being quite satisfying. It's been a while though.

Yes, yes, yes. Red Dead Redemption was my second favorite game of last generation (behind TLoU) and the shooting mechanics were great. GTA V still didn't even come close to its combat, and they even had the experience of working on Max Payne 3 for that one!
 
Max Payne 3 followed RDR. Haven't played MP3 yet, but everything I've heard makes it sound superior to RDR.

RDR has much better weapon sound design and recoil, but MP3 has way tighter player control (still not as tight as Naughty Dog's characters, though)
 

prag16

Banned
UC3 felt distinctly different from the first 2, it felt more on-rails for lack of a better term. Like you were just being guided through the aforementioned setpieces.

See, I thought 2 and 3 were very similar in the gameplay department, whereas 1 was the sloppy crippled step brother of 2 and 3.

However I do agree with most that 2 was definitely the better game between 2 and 3. 3 has the edge in the set piece department, but everything else about it seems sorta rushed and unpolished compared to 2. All three have pretty good/fun stories.

For me, ND games last gen go UC2, UC3, TLoU, then a dropoff, then UC1.
 
In terms of teams I've never understood how people interpret it. Uncharted 2 was completed. The studio then decided to work on two games at once. So despite often hearing The Last of Us is the Uncharted 2 team, how is the Uncharted 3 team not the Uncharted 2 team as well? Unless like they hired a fuck ton of people in between 2 and 3 or something.

No, I think the problem with Uncharted 3, if you have one at least, is that the date was set to early and the game was rushed. There are scenes that are clearly missing that would make the story feel more cohesive. There's no way I'm accepting ND's "well, all of these unexplained occurrences that happen throughout the game are all part of the deception" answer until it's like six, seven years from now and they're still saying that.

Charlie is my favorite Uncharted character I gotta say though.
 

ZeroX03

Banned
In terms of teams I've never understood how people interpret it. Uncharted 2 was completed. The studio then decided to work on two games at once. So despite often hearing The Last of Us is the Uncharted 2 team, how is the Uncharted 3 team not the Uncharted 2 team as well? Unless like they hired a fuck ton of people in between 2 and 3 or something.

People misinterpret the term 'two teams' into thinking it basically means two separate studios. It's the same people, working two projects at once. Majority of the staff working on Uncharted 3 while the 'second team' worked on TLoU. Then the majority of the staff shifted to TLoU, while the second team became those working on UC4, etc. Writers, concept artists, etc get to shift between work, as I understand a lot of studios tend to have to hire/fire people in those roles inbetween jobs due to downtime, a two team shift avoids that.
 

antitrop

Member
People misinterpret the term 'two teams' into thinking it basically means two separate studios. It's the same people, working two projects at once. Majority of the staff working on Uncharted 3 while the 'second team' worked on TLoU. Then the majority of the staff shifted to TLoU, while the second team became those working on UC4, etc.

Yeah, Uncharted 3 might have been some growing pains, but I think that decision is really going to pay off for them in the long term.

They had the best selling game of last month and the best game of last year, so... the momentum is nothing but on their side.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
They've admitted that it was rushed



http://www.1up.com/features/mapping-uncharted-3-drake-deception?pager.offset=7

That early date that they gave it was a bad idea, which is why they were so hesitant to announce TLoU's date and why they even delayed it at one point, which is something that they haven't done before. They weren't going to allow it out until they were completely happy with the end product.

to be fair, most people's problems with UC3 weren't technical

I see what you're trying to infer, but I don't think there's enough there to justify it.
 
Top Bottom