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Arcade racing fans are currently enjoying an embarrassment of riches
- Thread starter leng jai
- Start date
Show me where, in my posts, I have qualified the degree by which 30 fps vs 60 fps affects the gameplay. Where, in my posts, did I blow anything out of proportion? What I said is absolutely true - 30 fps games don't play as well as 60 fps games. Whether or not that change is game breaking or whatever is up to the player - I made no claims about how big of a change it is. Merely that it is a detriment. You cannot deny that.
In your fervor to defend drive club, you have imagined arguments I never made.
That said, stylized arcade racers, like from real arcades, are becoming extinct.
90s Arcade Racer is coming out next year, looks like a current gen Dreamcast game
Hope it comes out by Spring and hopefully it's worth the wait.
I still would really rather have this (at some point) than anything else:
double jump
you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
man I need a new motorstorm game in my life.
I hope evolution had some of their team split working on the next one.
I hope evolution had some of their team split working on the next one.
Can someone switch this stuck record off, jesus.
There's a place for 60fps racers and a place for 30 fps racers that look to push the visual envelope.
If you want to ignore games because of some imaginary pedestal you've created for yourself then more power to you, but dude there's no need to go on about it.
Oh, a backtracker I see. You just basically said in that post 30fps vs 60fps affects gameplay. Let me requote it for you. lol
Krejlooc said:
Krejlooc said:
Krejlooc said:
Krejlooc said:
TheAdmiester
Member
Which game is this?
Do you even know what stutter means?
Yes, what I said is true. You deny that 30 fps games play worse than 60 fps games? LOL if so.
You came at me saying I was "blowing this out of proportion." I never made a proportional argument. My claim was that 60 fps games play better. That's not opinion. Whether or not it plays well enough for you, I don't care. My statement is true, and I'm sorry that the facts hurt you.
Lion Heart
Banned
30fps vs 60fps can only be compared within the same game. Yes a 60fps DC/FH2 would make it a better game but that doesn't mean a 30fps racer can't be better than a 60fps racer.
Case and point, PGR2 is a much better game than PGR1 in pretty much every way but framerate. PGR2 is a classic and PGR1 is mediocre.
Case and point, PGR2 is a much better game than PGR1 in pretty much every way but framerate. PGR2 is a classic and PGR1 is mediocre.
Then case closed.
That argument doesn't make sense in the context of hardware limitations. They wouldn't be the same game if they were designed for 60fps.
martinstraka8282
Member
I'm not going to get involved in the 30 vs. 60 debate but I just wanted to point out how awful that feature makes TV's look. It really does just end up making things even worse.
In that it wouldn't have looked as nice, sure.
Maybe you should actually read my posts, or learn to read things in context? I said people were blowing 30fps in racers out of proportion, never mentioned you specifically. Enzo was right when he said the "Graphics over gameplay" notion for 30fps racers is absolute bullshit, because they didn't actually choose "graphics over gameplay" as if the gameplay is shit. The gameplay in both FH2 and DC2 is great. Again, in the case of today's RACERS, 60fps wouldn't make it "play" better when the physics engine is already updating at 3-4x the actual graphic's framerate.
nkarafo
Member
Maybe i'm using the wrong word here? Does judder better describe what i'm trying to say? I don't know, English is not my native language. So, my bad.
But it does make them feel better, that's for sure.
Uhh... it absolutely affects gameplay. Where are you going with this? A fast paced game objectively plays worse at 30 fps then 60 fps. Even if you update the controller input at 60 fps you still only receive visual feedback 30 times a second. This doesn't mean the game is unplayable, or even that it necessarily feels bad to play. It just means that it's lesser then if it was running at 60 fps. There are enough 30 fps console to 60 fps PC ports to make this fact indisputable.
On topic: I wouldn't mind if a decent arcade racer came out. I haven't really played one since Burnout Paradise.
You are looking for the word choppy. I usually find 30 fps tolerable unless it's a game where the camera swings quickly. 30 fps fast panning is a choppy mess.
wtf is this disingenuous bs? You quoted me, then went and made a post highlighting every mention I made of 30 fps, but you weren't specifically talking to me, only the general "people"?? Now who's backtracking?
After this talk about "Reading comprehension" you pull this interpretation of my posts out? Really?
Yes it would because you would be able to actually see what you need to react to sooner.
If we're talking about other genres I would agree the framerate definitely affects the gameplay in a huge way, especially for something like Ninja Gaiden or DMC. The visual feedback difference between 60fps and 30fps with good motion blur is noticeable, I go back between Rallisport 2, GT6, and DC2 all the time, but the difference in visual feedback isn't that huge to say the gameplay is hugely affected by it. Both Rallisport 2 and GT6 aren't as fast paced as DC2 but run at twice the framerate, and I've never had a hard time playing it or would even say it plays worse than the other two.
http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_driveclub_cayoosh_night_storm_hot_lap-GmcuURWJ3nw9tbIc_en.html
Which is the point,
Judder is usually used when there is a cadence issue when converting from one frame rate to another. It's especially noticeable when watching 24 fps film converted to 60 fps using a 3:2 cadence. Even medium speed pans suffer for it.
Stutter is when the image cadence is broken. You see this when you end up with a single frame being displayed for more frames then the average.
When displaying at 30 fps, even if your input polling is running at 120 fps, you still have a minimum of 16.6 ms of additional visual lag compared to 60 fps. You can make the case that it's not much worse then playing at 60 fps, but you can't make the case that 60 fps wouldn't play better. In the end the developer decided that visuals were more important then the "best" gameplay possible and did their best to minimize the impact. It appears they were fairly successful.
Nonsense. It would have had worse lighting which would impact gameplay, worse weather affects such as no moving droplets on the windshield according to the direction and turns etc which would impact gameplay etc.. By your logic every game in the world will play the same and not have its gameplay affected if it were changed to 60fps and graphics were downgraded.
The sacrifices they would have to make to the gameplay to get this to run at 60fps is not worth the trade of given the minimal input lag and the wonderful sense of speed that destroys the likes of Dirt 2, NFS at 60 fps.
Hence my original claim - graphics over gameplay.
water droplets on the windshield affecting gameplay, hahaha.
What an embarassing post. I fear for humanity.
nkarafo
Member
How do you know exactly how much the graphics would be downgraded. You seem very specific.
How about cutting down some trees and lower the resolution a bit? There. 60fps without any visual cutback that affects gameplay somehow.
Oh and 30fps over 60 is a sacrifice. You sacrifice frame rate for better visuals.
loaf of bread
Member
Wipeout, F-Zero, Burnout, Good NFS games, Motorstorm, PGR
We are in hell.
We are in hell.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Wrong thread. This is a 30fps V's 60fps thread.
You're right to fear for humanity, because it is truly shameful that I don't see the ways in which water rolling down a windshield (which is almost assuredly a 2D effect to begin with) wouldn't affect gameplay.
The graphics we see are the gameplay. Without graphics we would just be playing a soundtrack.
Brofist
Member
Pretty much. Although one word in there describes it well.
nkarafo
Member
Without the frame rate we would just be playing a picture.
That's an incredibly superficial way at looking at game design. The gameplay isn't the graphics, there are thousands of calculations going on under that you are not seeing that make up the gameplay.
There are games without graphics, btw.
Did you not get the memo Shaneus. Evo could have made it look like Ridge Racer 2 and run it at 240 fps without sacrificing gameplay. Clearly they prioritized visuals over gameplay.
If you've taken the argument that anything at 60 fps looks faster than anything at 30 fps, then you have poor comprehension and reasoning skills. The argument is obviously that the same game at 30 fps looks slower than the same game at 60 fps. Want proof?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXZTTaosYmY
F-zero gx at 30 fps
mega:#!JUQxAaCR!4vJI9B-gIM5LSgylyQSvPKR4vWezH-W8FWNBea29jOc
F-zero gx at 60 fps
nkarafo
Member
I wish there was a way to switch between 30 and 60fps on the go, to really feel the difference. With videos its never as noticeable. I remember many people saying that they can't go back to the original TLOU because of the 60fps remaster. And that's just a slower paced cinematic style game.
I just posted links to the same video made by me, one running at 30 fps one running at 60 fps. The difference is obvious and noticable.
nkarafo
Member
Such hyperbole.
Games can run at 60fps and look good enough at the same time. 6th gen games proved that. Some of the best looking games of that gen were 60fps games. See Ninja Gaiden, Rogue Leader, Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX, Rallisport Challenge 2, etc.
I also want to note that smooth frame rate should also count as a visual flair, it makes games look better.
Sega Race TV, courtesy of Google reverse image search.
Sadly, being a Lindbergh game (based on original Xbox hardware) emulation of it anytime soon (if ever) is unlikely to ever happen.
RadarScope1
Member
Yo, this framerate shit is toxic.
What's funny is that it absolutely does. I'm not sure where you were going with this. After watching the first video, the second video feels like it's running in slow motion. It's funny how temporal resolution works that way.
The guy is tilting at windmills. He's a crusade to counter the claim "driveclub sucks because it's at 30 fps instead of 60 fps" when the argument is that "driveclub would play better at 60 fps instead of 30 fps" with no mention of quality.
The lindbergh isn't based on Xbox hardware, you're thinking of the Chihiro. The lindbergh is a pentium 4 PC with an Nvidia 6-series GPU.
drtomoe123
Member
When I watch the videos, I get two very different feelings of speed. The first game makes me feel like I'm going faster, but the second one's speed is more powerful and weighty.
Different types of games for different types of experiences.
Goal posts changing. No one in this thread argued that the same game at 60 fps is not going to be better than the same game at 30 fps.The argument was whether going to 60 and cutting some tech that may affect immersion or gameplay or both will ensure that it continues to be the same game as it was in 30. If the core remains the same than 60 is fine but if the core gameplay has to be changed by going 60 then it is debatable if the trade off is worth it.
Teknopathetic
Member
"What's funny is that it absolutely does. I'm not sure where you were going with this. After watching the first video, the second video feels like it's running in slow motion. It's funny how temporal resolution works that way."
Even if it were 30fps, Ridge Racer 2 has a better sensation of speed because of the track design and how fast cars are whipping around the non-stop turns and chicanes. Completely disproves their own point.
Even if it were 30fps, Ridge Racer 2 has a better sensation of speed because of the track design and how fast cars are whipping around the non-stop turns and chicanes. Completely disproves their own point.