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Polygon: MS needs to admit the XB1 Kinect is a peripheral, not a pack-in. [Opinion]
- Thread starter SwiftDeath
- Start date
So when you want to change the volume, do you just chant "Xbox Volume Up" again and since the Kinect only incrementally increases volume each time you input a voice command? How precisely can you fast forward or rewind when there's a lag on voice commands?
Even for multimedia stuff, the Kinect has its shortcomings.
CheDominik
Member
And as already stated it's a waste of electrictiy to use two devices just for another interface to watch TV IMO.
We knew all this before Xbox One released, games weren't just going to magically come out a month or two after that make Kinect worthwhile, the whole " well you gotta wait and see, potential!" argument can't fail after 2 months if it didn't fail before those two months. If you wanted to defend Kinect, ride that hope out a year.
schwabdizzle
Banned
I am thinking $399 with and $349 without.
Like I said, still use the remote for DVR stuff. My volume isn't usually swinging in such drastic directions that I have to chant "Xbox volume up" like a MS monk.
I will admit that I use smartglass for most big volume changes.
Garrett 2U
Member
It's hard to argue for Kinect as a pack-in right now.
It makes the console so much better, but it isn't necessary.
I think it would have helped their case if they had self publishing out at launch so that smaller devs could put out Kinect games/apps... because besides the system functionality, there just isn't anything else out right now that screams "YOU WANT KINECT!"
It makes the console so much better, but it isn't necessary.
I think it would have helped their case if they had self publishing out at launch so that smaller devs could put out Kinect games/apps... because besides the system functionality, there just isn't anything else out right now that screams "YOU WANT KINECT!"
schwabdizzle
Banned
I think MS will make a move depending on how well TitanFall helps push machines. I expect pretty good TitanFall sales as a whole. I am wondering how much it really decides to make people spend $500 for one game.
AtomicShroom
Member
One of the main problems is that almost none of the multiplatform developers will be bothered to create Kinect-specific features or gameplay mechanics, or any that have any sort of significance.
Multiplatform developers aim for parity and, working in the industry, I can pretty much assure you that the mentality around these companies goes like "We won't make a single effort more than the bare minimum to get the game running on X."
It's already bad enough that they often ask us to come up with bastardized design solutions to implement technical requirements that can work on all platforms simultaneously, because they're not willing to spend a single second doing platform-specific coding. Now imagine actual features... Sheesh.
Multiplatform developers aim for parity and, working in the industry, I can pretty much assure you that the mentality around these companies goes like "We won't make a single effort more than the bare minimum to get the game running on X."
It's already bad enough that they often ask us to come up with bastardized design solutions to implement technical requirements that can work on all platforms simultaneously, because they're not willing to spend a single second doing platform-specific coding. Now imagine actual features... Sheesh.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I don't think there will ever be a Kinect enabled title that reaches Titanfalls level of hype - nothing that makes extensive use of Kinect as the main controller anyways.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Kinect is a bid for the mainstream while it's being sold at a price only the core gamers will consider.
The Xbox One is the equivalent of a Wii being sold at 500$ without Wii Sports.
The Xbox One is the equivalent of a Wii being sold at 500$ without Wii Sports.
McHuj
Member
This is especially true given the growing disparity in the install bases. If X1 had the install base advantage, I'm sure some devs would experiment with Kinect, but now, it's unlikely anyone will dedicate resources to that.
Some will say, NPD's/Sales don't matter, but I think they certainly do when it comes to lead platforms and supporting unique system features.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
People are still having troubles with voice commands? Damn.. .I fly through the commands on mine. Love it. I agree with there being no games to show off Kinect. But I"m loving my commanding of my whole entertainment center with my voice. Good thing like last gen we can buy any and all of the consoles if we want.
I think MS would like them to think it was for them. Just a hunch.
Maninthemirror
Banned
The only fix is to redesign the OS . Kick out kinect , up the specs and keep the price
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
RE: How would the market respond? Well, I think some damage is done, but ultimately if MS is sitting at somewhere between 60-40 or 66-33, you'd assume that the price cut would at least get them to 50-50 or 55-45 (all numbers in Sony's favour). I suspect the mindshare at this early stage would be worth it, personally.
schwabdizzle
Banned
For $500? That makes no sense.
Garrett 2U
Member
They have a really nice lineup of games this year, so I think it'd have a pretty good response from consumers.
CheDominik
Member
I guess you're talking about NA only?
Because even at price parity I don't see much of a market for MS in Europe. Even the 600 PS3 outsold the 360 by a pretty wide margin IIRC.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Up the specs to make it a 6 year console cycle rather than a 3, have a intel cpu and and a dual gpu kind of performance would make it future proof. Current consoles seem like a stop gap measure as if they made them a step up just to see if the console industry as it is will be the same 6 years from now
Well, I guess they're fucked then.
Noble Neckbeard
Banned
It would certainly be the best way to reduce the price of the machines, but there are many problems. The gamepad is integrated into the functionality of the system. Kinect is already in a similar situation. Can you even access the WiiU shop without the gamepad?
I agree that the two peripherals are somewhat useless, but I don't think it will be as easy to remove them as you think.
Mhee I got a xbox one last week just because of Titanfall and Dead Rising... Personally I wouldn't pay for a kinect, is a glorified camera with siri on top of it. The voice recognition is cool but that could be done without a $100 tag on it.
IMHO MS screw it with kinect, they miss read the market and asume there was actually demand for this thing, They have also failed for years to make a compelling game for it .
IMHO MS screw it with kinect, they miss read the market and asume there was actually demand for this thing, They have also failed for years to make a compelling game for it .
Glad to see Wii U suggestions bleeding into Xbone threads now.
Console executives hate common sense because reasons...
Memorabilia
Member
My pre-launch prediction was it would take about 6 months for MS to see the writing on the wall and be forced to sell a SKU without Kinect at the $399 price point. They really put themselves between a rock and a hard place when they made spec/design compromises in order to include Kinect in every box and keep the price at/under $500. Kinect is seemingly central to their living-room strategy, but if they abandon it then they fracture developer support, most likely relegating it to "meh accessory" status like the original Kinect. Worse, they will have essentially lowered the spec of the XB1 to keep that price down for no reason. MS's best option at this point is probably to try to ride this bomb to impact - cowboy hat a wavin - and money hat the hell out of some truly spextacular IPs that show off what kinect can do. If they arent willing to do that...or Kinect simply isnt capable of delivering anything better than Fruit Ninja or The Gun Stringer, its going to be an uphill battle as this gen progresses.
What you are describing is a little closer to "all new console" than to "fixed Xbone." They can't up the specs. Fragmenting the user base into Kinect haves vs have-nots is one thing, but creating a situation where some people will be able to run a game and others won't is never going to happen.
Yes because upping the specs is just a magic switch they can flip and not take a loss on.
spookyfish
Member
Or, they desperately want their master to succeed.
As xxracerxx said, this was talked about WIDELY before the console even launched by the targeted audience, with abject dismissal from the "enthusiast press."
Interesting to see who was right all along.
Ah, yes. But for people like me, $399 was my price point before I saw how much of a gap there is between the One and PS4. My price point has now changed.
Pretty much agree with this. The longer they wait, the less benefit it will likely have for a similar amount of pain, as both software libraries improve and marketshare is slowly established.
Unfortunately, I don't think you're going to see MS act quickly on this, if at all (the Windows 8 fiasco for desktop users and how long it's taking to walk it back is probably a good parallel as far as how fast the company is willing to change their mind on a major decision like this).
Netherscourge
Banned
Here's how to make the Xbox One look attractive:
1. Remove the Kinect
2. Drop the Price to $349.99
3. Add a 6-month XBL Gold card.
4. Sell a Titanfall Bundle for $399.99
Do that, and people will buy it because:
A.) doesn't have the dead-weight of the Kinect
B.) the price is reflective of the hardware inside it (using the PS4's $399.99 hardware as a measure)
C.) XBL Gold itself is too much IMO
D.) Titanfall could be a system-seller.
Do those things, and you have VALUE.
1. Remove the Kinect
2. Drop the Price to $349.99
3. Add a 6-month XBL Gold card.
4. Sell a Titanfall Bundle for $399.99
Do that, and people will buy it because:
A.) doesn't have the dead-weight of the Kinect
B.) the price is reflective of the hardware inside it (using the PS4's $399.99 hardware as a measure)
C.) XBL Gold itself is too much IMO
D.) Titanfall could be a system-seller.
Do those things, and you have VALUE.
Because you should spec your machine based on what consumers actually want instead of a device that has proven over and over again to be a lousy input for games.
They have to remove it or give it away. If they don't Sony will have 12-15m PS4s in homes by the end of the year and this race will be over already.
The games press and analysts have consistently severely under-estimated the mauling MS will be on the receiving end of if things continue as they are.
The games press and analysts have consistently severely under-estimated the mauling MS will be on the receiving end of if things continue as they are.
Kinect Sports as well.
The demo for that game is actually pretty fun. Kinect was really accurate for me too.
Memorabilia
Member
From a gamer perspective, I agree with this 100%.
But I'm guessing when it comes to market strategy over at MS, there is still too much internal momentum to justify Kinect 2.0, especially when u consider its forced inclusion is the only reason the system specs are inferior to the PS4. If they pull Kinect 2.0 it would be a loud admission that whichever group had control of the XB1's original design/strategy was wrong and that a new, more gamer/core focused group is taking the reins. Without Kinect, what does the XB1 have to offer that will move boxes into average family living rooms vs the PS4? Regardless of what you or I may want...we are "core gamers" and not necessarily representative of the rest of the "larger market potential" that MS sees, whether real or imagined. Anecdotal to be sure, but I've heard quite a bit of water cooler talk re: the kinect being a major reason why various people picked up XB1 for their kids/family rather than the PS4.
Personally, I think they should cut their losses with the launch vision and release a kinectless SKU, if only to get that price point down to match the PS4. But, as we've seen time and again from MS, they dont seem to respond to market demand quickly. Rather, they almost seem to ignore what consumers actually want with many of their product releases and forge ahead, regardless of consumer response. Its a real head scratcher, but its definitely the way they seem to operate.
Nymphae
Banned
I'm still blown away the cameras are going for that much, I got mine for christmas and it was like 50 or 60 bucks. I wouldn't even have bought it at that price it I hadn't been given it as a gift. I just don't use it enough.
Once they remove Kinect, they'll unveil their ace and unlock the dGPU.
Memorabilia
Member
Exactly. Long term, an argument could be made they would have been better off upping the specs to equal PS4 while keeping Kinect and the same price point while eating loss per box. In the end they are going to end up eating loss per box anyway if they want to maintain course and keep kinect as a packin, because they need to get that price point down $100.
Personally, I don't think there's any mileage in "Kinect games". I think, as a sensor in the same guise as other 'sensors' like Oculus Rift, for example, the technology is better suited for augmenting existing games and experiences. We've seen drabs of this with Dead Rising 3, for instance, but there's so, so much wasted opportunity.
If MS
1. Didn't include kinect
2. Didn't insult gamers with their DRM bullshit to begin with
3. Matched ps4 specs
Me and my dozen or so friends with ps4's would all have xb1's right now most likely.
I was going to get a ps4 either way for remote play but all my friends were 100% xbox until the drm snaffu, and then kinect/price were the final nails in the coffin.
1. Didn't include kinect
2. Didn't insult gamers with their DRM bullshit to begin with
3. Matched ps4 specs
Me and my dozen or so friends with ps4's would all have xb1's right now most likely.
I was going to get a ps4 either way for remote play but all my friends were 100% xbox until the drm snaffu, and then kinect/price were the final nails in the coffin.
RedNumberFive
Banned
This. A follow up console to the 360 should have been a no-brainer, yet the fine folks at Microsoft bungled it at every opportunity.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Check bounced?
I agree though. I hate kinect. Also the os is a bloated mess. It's actually a step back from 360.
You can't just bump the specs and change chipset that fast and put to sell in the market. They will need at least 1 year just to make the die design... let alone dev kits etc.
Resident_UA
Member
Also because Gies is anything but impartial when it comes to console preference.
Which I don't have a problem with to a point. But he also believes that he's very objective.If you told me a year ago that all of my game playing friends would have ps4's and some even have vitas! and I was the only one with even a passing interest in the new xbox I would have called you batshit insane. Would have assumed I had both/about to have both and rest had only xb1.