CadetMahoney
Member
It's already too little too late. There is no saving the bone. Removing Kinect should of been done before release.
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Polygon: MS needs to admit the XB1 Kinect is a peripheral, not a pack-in. [Opinion]
- Thread starter SwiftDeath
- Start date
It's already too little too late. There is no saving the bone. Removing Kinect should of been done before release.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Agreed. I'm the kind of guy that buys every console available. It takes something special for me to actively avoid your product. My friends and family agree. I don't know a single person who owns an Xbone.
Edit: I don't think that the RROD and the paywalling did them any favors going into this generation. I think most everyone I know switched their brand preferance, favoring Sony, about midway through the last gen.
I know this is English, but I honestly don't know what the fuck is being said here. I doubt anyone gives a shit about the numbers as long as the software looks great. PS4's winning by being $100 cheaper and XBone still having the Spybox stigma.
Seriously people touting numbers around like they know things becomes the most laughable argument under the sun.
schwabdizzle
Banned
I still think $500 for the average consumer is a bit much. I think MS will be better off selling a Kinnect Free Xbox One for $349.
dreamer3kx
Member
I just dont think Titanfall is going to sell many systems, I do think its going to do well with current owners but I dont see people shelling $500 for this game.
Microsoft have really screwed themselves into a corner here. The casuals that they hoped to attract do not give a shit and the gaming crowd are being driven towards the cheaper and more powerful PS4. Personally, I have warmed up to the idea of using it, but the writing is on the wall. It is a dead in the water forced add-on that is proving to be nothing more than an albatross. Nobody wants it, developers don't want to use it and it makes the system too expensive. Just calling a spade a spade.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Xbox is the next "water cooler"
I should of known better
I should of known better
The Real Napsta
Member
Why do people keep saying this? You don't even have to have the thing plugged in anymore.
Everyone I work with that had 360's only, now have ps4's. And most of them are what you call casual gamers. Married with kids and only game on the weekends.
These are people that do NOT read gaming websites.
Their reason for choosing that over the xb1?:
First was the price. It was cheaper.
Second was they heard it was more powerful.
Third was they heard the xb1 worked with the NSA to spy. lol
Fourth was that the kinnect didnt work.
Their overall view of the xb1 was that it was an over priced...thing...that they just didnt understand. Sounds a lot like the Wii U issues.
They heard the ps4 was more powerful, saw it was cheaper and that was that.
Not sure WHERE they heard about those things if they didnt read gaming websites, maybe they saw that stuff on those opinion articles on forbes or huffington...
So the word is out there to the general masses, that xb1 just is...meh..
Memorabilia
Member
This mirrors my experience as well. I own both, but nearly everyone I gamed with last gen moved PS4 exxlusively (for now), with a couple of random ezceptions who bought kinect 2.0 for their kids and now have nothing to play on it. Thats also somewhat mind boggling if you think about it: Kinect 2.0 was/is central to their Trojan Horse living room strategy and they made this huge strategic decision to include it at the cost of specs which are 30-40% slower than PS4...and then they launch the system without a single game that shows off Kinect 2.0. A couple of the families I know which purchased the XB1 for Kinect 2.0 have already expresses disappointment,.."yeah voice control is cool, but my kids are back to playing the original Kinect games on the 360 bc theres nothing to play." Yes, its a launch drought...but still somewhat puzzling to hype this as central to their vision and provide not a single game that shows someone why they should care about Kinect.
biosnake20
Member
Taking out the kinect and dropping to 349-399 seems to be the best option for them to mount a comeback. Titanfall launching with the a price drop soon after will be a effective 1,2 punch to get them back into the game.
gaming_noob
Member
Just based on reading on how the market has perceived and reacted to the WiiU and Xbone, is it safe to assume the the most powerful console will be the most popular next gen (2018 and on)?
Pretty sure they will wait till after Titanfall so they can get the boost and extra money. I would say after their next earnings report.
UpsideDownAce
Member
Tell that to the ipad. You just have to offer a compelling product and consumers will bite.
I also think Microsoft just needs to eat the cost and cut the price with the kinect still bundled in.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
My workplace is dominated by Xbox One owners. They have themselves convinced that no one wants a PS4 and Microsoft is dominating this console gen. For whatever reason, they have been successful talking people out of wanting a PS4. They also, however, think the Xbox One has secret hardware that hasn't been activated yet.lol You find pockets of people like this everywhere during every gen. It is just something that happens.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I don't own an Xbone, but my understanding is that there are a few reasons. Firstly I am told, that the voice commands do not all have corresponding controller buttons. This means that some commands cannot be given without a kinect.
I was also told that while you do not need it plugged in, some games and circumstances will tell you about it consistently until plugged in. So you can either have it plugged in, or have a prompt on screen telling you it is unplugged.
Thirdly, it is part of the package obviously. Meaning that removing it now, would alter games that exist already and use it. Presumably there are instances where a game assumes you have it, and if you do not, it may require reworking, or at least reprinting to specify it is a required peripheral.
Bottom line, it is not an easy switch, but doable.
Yeah sorry my argument was convoluted, I'm not a native english speaker.
easy version: No Good Kinect Game has ever been made, why would I pay a $100 for it?
Following your same argument: "PS4's winning by being $100 cheaper and XBone still having the Spybox stigma." PS4 is winning because Sony executives took better decisions.
Future PhaZe
Member
I honestly don't think Kinect was the issue
Problem is that they wanted to come up with something revolutionary without putting their best foot behind it
It clearly wasn't ready for the launch date. Xbox One arguably shouldn't have launched until this fall and you can argue that they wouldn't have even suffered much for it given the type of software thats launched thus far + PS4's supply constraints.
They also should never have let Sony get such a big lead in terms of the hardware.
They should have launched far after PS4 with a fixed and completed OS, a matching or better GPU, and feature complete (twitch, better country support in regards to Kinect and TV integration).
Launch it for 600 dollars , only one SKU and stand by your product as a complete game and home entertainment machine. If the product was great they'd have sold a ton. I don't think price is as prohibitive now as it was a decade ago, consumer electronics are expensive these days.
Problem is they tried to cut corners. Tried to launch hardware that wasn't ready for launch or even close to it. Tried to hit a certain price point and took huge hits in terms of graphical fidelity in the process.
TLDR; The 360 had enough mindshare behind it that they should have put their best product forward--regardless of launch date or price.
Problem is that they wanted to come up with something revolutionary without putting their best foot behind it
It clearly wasn't ready for the launch date. Xbox One arguably shouldn't have launched until this fall and you can argue that they wouldn't have even suffered much for it given the type of software thats launched thus far + PS4's supply constraints.
They also should never have let Sony get such a big lead in terms of the hardware.
They should have launched far after PS4 with a fixed and completed OS, a matching or better GPU, and feature complete (twitch, better country support in regards to Kinect and TV integration).
Launch it for 600 dollars , only one SKU and stand by your product as a complete game and home entertainment machine. If the product was great they'd have sold a ton. I don't think price is as prohibitive now as it was a decade ago, consumer electronics are expensive these days.
Problem is they tried to cut corners. Tried to launch hardware that wasn't ready for launch or even close to it. Tried to hit a certain price point and took huge hits in terms of graphical fidelity in the process.
TLDR; The 360 had enough mindshare behind it that they should have put their best product forward--regardless of launch date or price.
MS made a huge gamble by building the entire system around Kinect. Had they released a similar system in specs as the PS4 with Kinect as an add-on they would have owned this generation as Sony would have not been able to keep up with throwing money at exclusives. But they took an all in bet on Kinect and at least when it comes to the core gaming market (which drives AAA production) they lost. Game over already.
That being said, they instead took aim at the media centre/living room app market and so far they haven´t succeeded there either. The technology for a superb living room media device is there, but the price is too high and the implementation isn´t mature enough yet. The way I see it they now have two choices:
(1) Drop Kinect, keep it as an add-on for the Kinect Sports and Dance Central fans. Sell at 350 and hope marketing and exclusives will bring core gamers back despite the power difference. This would essentially mean admitting that the whole vision was wrong and now try to keep the system afloat until the next one, a bit like Nintendo with the Wii U except not as bad.
(2) Double down on the media centre/Kinect vision and sell at price parity with PS4 (including Kinect and Kinect Sports as a pack-in). Build the OS with media centre stuff in mind, advertise it in lifestyle magazines to try to make it the next Wii, produce exclusive media content like Netflix does, build everything with Kinect in mind and buy a few AAA core gamer exclusives a year to get core gamers to buy it as a second system. This option would mean taking a huge loss on hardware for a year or two, but MS can easily afford it. With the new CEO and investors wanting MS to shed the Xbox division this might not happen though. I think this is the only way to play this scenario out, dropping Kinect and with it the media centre focus their only differentiator is gone and they would just face an uphill battle. PS4 has the momentum now, doing a full 180" is too little too late.
That being said, they instead took aim at the media centre/living room app market and so far they haven´t succeeded there either. The technology for a superb living room media device is there, but the price is too high and the implementation isn´t mature enough yet. The way I see it they now have two choices:
(1) Drop Kinect, keep it as an add-on for the Kinect Sports and Dance Central fans. Sell at 350 and hope marketing and exclusives will bring core gamers back despite the power difference. This would essentially mean admitting that the whole vision was wrong and now try to keep the system afloat until the next one, a bit like Nintendo with the Wii U except not as bad.
(2) Double down on the media centre/Kinect vision and sell at price parity with PS4 (including Kinect and Kinect Sports as a pack-in). Build the OS with media centre stuff in mind, advertise it in lifestyle magazines to try to make it the next Wii, produce exclusive media content like Netflix does, build everything with Kinect in mind and buy a few AAA core gamer exclusives a year to get core gamers to buy it as a second system. This option would mean taking a huge loss on hardware for a year or two, but MS can easily afford it. With the new CEO and investors wanting MS to shed the Xbox division this might not happen though. I think this is the only way to play this scenario out, dropping Kinect and with it the media centre focus their only differentiator is gone and they would just face an uphill battle. PS4 has the momentum now, doing a full 180" is too little too late.
Only if Microsoft is desperate (and I mean direly desperate) would price the XB1 at $349 but that isn't going to happen because that would mean taking a loss on hardware (even if you don't include kinect) which I pretty sure shareholders wouldn't fond off having sunk so much R&D into the Kinect 1 and 2.
I don't really like the idea of kinect, the motion capture gaming and all. But while I think a kinectless sku would be a good idea, I ALSO think it's a bit too early to judge.
Sure they should've had some software that showcased it. If it's so great why isn't there anything showing that it's so great? But it is early. If nothing comes out that wows people this year, I'd say it was a failed experiment.
Sure they should've had some software that showcased it. If it's so great why isn't there anything showing that it's so great? But it is early. If nothing comes out that wows people this year, I'd say it was a failed experiment.
Saint Gregory
Member
If things stay as they are I believe that it would be the first time that the most powerful console was ever been the top selling console of the generation. That probably has a lot to do with less powerful consoles usually starting out at a lower price point. That should really demonstrate once again how badly Nintendo and MS messed up.
sturgboski
Member
With regards to Kinect, do we even think they need a game? I mean look at the Playstation Camera. When it was announced it wasnt being packed in, the general thought was it was being sent out to die. Yet, because you can stream to Twitch and UStream with it via the PS4, that thing has been sold out since Day 1. Honestly, Microsoft could probably just "flip a switch" to make the Kinect usable for streaming to Twitch and that would suffice, at least until games finally arrive that make full use of the device.
On the side of a price drop from Microsoft, does one believe that Sony wouldn't follow suit? Post E3, I believe it came out that Sony was willing to go less than $399.99 in order to come under or match what Microsoft priced at. If at E3 Microsoft comes in with a lower price point (lets say $399.99) for the Xbox One w/Kinect, I can see Sony dropping lower. I think the lower price has been a big component in sales and I don't foresee Sony giving that up.
On the side of a price drop from Microsoft, does one believe that Sony wouldn't follow suit? Post E3, I believe it came out that Sony was willing to go less than $399.99 in order to come under or match what Microsoft priced at. If at E3 Microsoft comes in with a lower price point (lets say $399.99) for the Xbox One w/Kinect, I can see Sony dropping lower. I think the lower price has been a big component in sales and I don't foresee Sony giving that up.
I'm convinced MS thought they could bluff Sony into making their camera a pack in.
Imagine if Sony had packed it in. Both consoles are close in price and the camera is legitimized as a bundled peripheral. We'd be looking at very different numbers. On top of that, Microsofts argument about a camera with every console increasing dev efforts might have held some water.
As it stands now, less than half of next gen consoles will have a camera. Devs can safely ignore it, and there is clear differentiation in price.
One of the smartest moves Sony made was calling that bluff.
Imagine if Sony had packed it in. Both consoles are close in price and the camera is legitimized as a bundled peripheral. We'd be looking at very different numbers. On top of that, Microsofts argument about a camera with every console increasing dev efforts might have held some water.
As it stands now, less than half of next gen consoles will have a camera. Devs can safely ignore it, and there is clear differentiation in price.
One of the smartest moves Sony made was calling that bluff.
RedNumberFive
Banned
That's crazy. My office went from almost entirely 360 owners to PS4 exclusively. I suppose that getting more for less was the only word of mouth needed.
This is one area where the ps4 is actually better. I can say"AC4" or Assassin's Creed 4" and they both work.
scoobs
Member
This is so ridiculous to say. The Bone is going to come down in price and with Halo 5 and Gears 4 coming, the xbox is going to be just fine. I do think the vision of an all-in-one device that the masses will buy is quickly becoming a pipe dream though. Xb1 will sell 60-70 million units in its lifetime at least. Probably more. No need for all this doom and gloom.
Probably has more to do with the interface being made with Kinect in mind. If they choose to drop Kinect, they will definitely change the UI and make it more controller friendly.
Duxxy3
Member
It's not over until the next-next gen consoles are released. PS3 came from behind to match the 360.
Microsoft still has a chance in their big three markets as soon as they get their head out of their ass. A weaker, more expensive, console is not going anywhere. With the lineup that has leaked for the XB1, even price parity would drive up sales to even/nearly even levels in the three markets.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Gears 4 kind of exists, and it was a failure. Suggesting that a new one also not made by Epic will be a massive draw to the platform speaks against the facts we have. Halo will draw the Halo crowd, and no one else. Halo 4 online is dead in comparison to previous titles, is it not?
These games are not the answer at all. They need new games, not tired franchises passed around between developers.
The sales gap by the time those games are actually done is going to be massive.
Good point - smartphones cost a fortune and they still sell extremely well. MS launched a product that was nowhere near ready. I still find their main vision remains interesting, it´s just the implementation that is lacking. With more mature OS software (there´s not even a media player application right now) and a fully working media focus with content deals and it would have had a better shot at justifying the cost.
Is the gap all that's important? Is it not possible to be considered a success if the gap is massive?
Well I've now had 3 experiences at GameStop where the employees recommended ps4 (even when they didn't have stock) telling the customers how its more powerful and PS+ is a much better deal.
Funny thing is each time they tried to get the person to preorder Titanfall right after.
Substandard
Member
I have a PS4 already, but I'd buy a $399 bundle with Titanfall and XBL Gold (san Kinect) if it was available. Or an unbundled Xbox one in the $299 range. I don't think either of these things are going to happen though unless the sales are super dire.
I agree with a lot of other people who have said that just matching the PS4 at $399 is not good enough now that I know that every single multiplatform so far has been inferior on the Xbox One. It's less powerful, it should be cheaper.
I'd actually kind of like the Kinect 2.0 to screw around with, but I can do voice commands with a headset and I've seen zero reason to justify paying more for one. It seems like every person in this thread talking about how much they like the Kinect is using it for voice commands, which is almost none of the cost or functionality of the Kinect itself.
I agree with a lot of other people who have said that just matching the PS4 at $399 is not good enough now that I know that every single multiplatform so far has been inferior on the Xbox One. It's less powerful, it should be cheaper.
I'd actually kind of like the Kinect 2.0 to screw around with, but I can do voice commands with a headset and I've seen zero reason to justify paying more for one. It seems like every person in this thread talking about how much they like the Kinect is using it for voice commands, which is almost none of the cost or functionality of the Kinect itself.
Future PhaZe
Member
As someone who absolutely loved the 360 I'm pretty concerned about the Bone moving forward
main thing is leadership
You can talk about Gears or Halo all you want, but without Bungie or Cliffy B and that team what exactly gives you any indication that the above products will be any good? The general concensus is that Halo 4 was a misstep, your opinion may be different, but the IP is clearly losing traction.GoW Judgement sales were bad.
Like I said with 360--I had a face to that console that I believed in. Peter Moore at the head, Sakaguchi, Molyneux, Cliffy B , Chris Perna and all those guys at Epic, the entire Bungie staff...
Mattrick took over and the shit hit the fan. You looked at the One when it was first revealed and your like...was anybody that was involved with the 360's success even still involved with MS anymore?
So it's not a coincidence that everything thats come from Xbox One has been a result of a flawed leadership structure -- mix messages, a rushed, incomplete OS, etc.
Apples and oranges. Smartphones are general purpose devices seen by most as a necessity in the modern world.
Video game consoles are not smartphones. They are a luxury item, a toy, and as such the market sees their pricing value very differently.
You can only sell a product for what the market will bear for that specific product.
I went to go pick up a PS4 camera a little after the Xbox One launch and over heard an interesting conversation at Gamestop. The employees were talking about how much better the Xbox One was than the PS4 and pretty much saying that the PS4 was weaker and overhyped. The customer agreed and said that alot of people complained about the price but that it brought Kinect and made it worth it. This amount of misinformation really rubbed me the wrong way but I kept my mouth shut.
Add to that people see a phone as $200 not $600 because they are signing a contract usually.
scoobs
Member
They do have new IP though... more than they've ever had. Quantum Break, RYSE (i know, its not great but maybe theres hope for a good sequel), Killer Instinct, Insomniacs weird looking shooter game, Titanfall, etc.
If last gen was any indication they're in this for the long haul (7+ years) so if you don't think they'll still sell a shit ton of consoles in that time frame you've gotta be crazy.
biosnake20
Member
MS has to do the same thing Sony did to start the comeback though, a price drop. The 40gb PS3 was a great help for them.
Microsoft might be in a better position if they sold the One like a subsidized smartphone.
Something like $100 up front and $20 a month for two years is easier to swallow than $500 to most consumers.
The 360 subscription experiment must have turned them off from that option for whatever reason.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
People keep saying that Microsoft should have delayed the xb1 launch and what not, but I don't think that is the issue.
The issue I believe is that they completely misread their audience. Like they made assumptions about their audience that were so completely off base, that they will be struggling all gen.
Do you guys remembers all the statistic bullshit Microsoft posted about people spending more time watching Netflix and consuming media stuff than playing video games?
They fucked themselves by over reading into that information. Mattrick or whoever, saw those statistics and made the baseless assumption that people wanted a console that gave them all their media consumption and plays games.
That's what the xbox one is. It's a media device that plays games. It's whole design philosophy is basically an htpc. We've seen the console strip down, it's pretty much looks like off the shelf parts configured like an htpc.
What they did was they took their statistics, made an assumption but failed to realize that nothing had change in media consumption. It was just more people watching TV via Netflix and what not instead of watching over the air TV.
And Kinect. I think it was pretty much agreed upon that Kinect 1.0 was shit. No idea why they thought including it in the package would move consoles.
You're probably right, but they aren't failing nearly as bad as PS3. The Xbox One sales figures are actually quite good for a new gaming system. They are losing the race but they aren't failing.
joecanada
Member
I'd bet money that you are wrong. MS clung to a pipe dream of riding the coat tails of wii success, and it's not working , at all.
there were hundreds of people here saying mandatory kinect was a bad idea and why, and so far they have been right on the money.
The biggest problem that you correctly identified is that they are now in a big hole via investment and marketing the brand to reflect their all in one, voice control, cable box, media machine.
Dropping kinect would be a huge admission of error, and one they will likely find tough to do, but it may in fact be mandatory at some point. This will piss off all the people who bought at 500 and didn't want kinect.
349 w/o kinect may be their only saving grace. Maybe. They arent through yet but sales were bad in january.... remains to be seen.
I think the worst kick in the sack was when ps4 was revealed to do voice commands with no kinect.
Is your workplace Microsoft by any chance? Just kidding.
Mine is the opposite. I've never heard the Xbone mentioned. I've even had people ask me about the WiiU, but not the XBO. Same goes with the other conversations.
I think if MS is banking on Titanfall selling systems, they're going to be disappointed. I'll be buying the system for the 360, as will a couple other people I know. Not that it makes a trend, but will people really drop $560 plus tax for one game? I know there will be some, like the spoiled kid I saw at BB a few weeks back practically throw a tantrum because his mom was buying him a wired controller instead of a wireless as his SECOND controller along with the XBO and two games (and he was clearly a teenager). I guess we'll see.