Typically giving less money to someone who is used to more money does send a message, yes.
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Dark Souls II - Graphics Comparison - PC Preview
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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Typically giving less money to someone who is used to more money does send a message, yes.
Yes, if you're a business leader and you only look at one chart in your entire career. Fewer people buying DSII at full price than DSI at full price is the message.
DrROBschiz
Member
Well we did end up with a reply from Namco/From in response to the downgrade.
It wasn't a satisfying response but they are aware that we noticed.
Doesn't seem like they care and the game appears to have sold very well and reviewed well.
On its own its still a good game. Compared to what could have been though.... I hope this shadow sticks to them going forward.
That reveal is what souls fans want from the series. Graphics isnt everything but you cant tease something that awesome band not try to deliver it at some point.
Here's hoping they strive to deliver better in the future. We will be watching more carefully next time around I assume
ExFalsoQuodlibet
Member
Not buying the game for these reasons is ridiculous, the game looks gorgeous anyway.
They removed the excessively strong shadows, excessively exaggerated contrast that was shown in some areas just to impress.
Torch mechanics are still there, lighting with torch is still impressive.
They lied by showing a game with small, insignificant portions that don't look like the same portions in the actual game, and they still didn't offer a good reason for that switch (a good reason was there for sure, but they did not explain it in plain words), but it didn't affect the overall quality of the game in any way: lying is bad, but the game is not.
They removed the excessively strong shadows, excessively exaggerated contrast that was shown in some areas just to impress.
Torch mechanics are still there, lighting with torch is still impressive.
They lied by showing a game with small, insignificant portions that don't look like the same portions in the actual game, and they still didn't offer a good reason for that switch (a good reason was there for sure, but they did not explain it in plain words), but it didn't affect the overall quality of the game in any way: lying is bad, but the game is not.
It's already sold plenty, Namco ain't worried about it.
You're taking what I said out of context. It was in reference to something very specific, which you've not paid attention to and have just gone off because the rage mind has no time to slow down and think reasonably for a second.
I do love how I can be called both a fanboy and a basher in the same thread. lol
The new lighting system they showed off was supposed to be a major selling point of the game, and it's not in the game. That is wrong, period. There is no defending it. From's marketing people should be fired. Now.
There are two issues with this mindset. The first is that if you're a marketing manager at a company like Namco and you're presenting figures by talking about "plenty," you're already fired. The second is assuming that one person's decision to buy at sale rather than at launch is meaningless -- this is the same fallacy that hampers voting strategies, when in reality it's not that one sale or vote that matters, but the bulk of them.
DrROBschiz
Member
I care more about the higher quality art assets than the lighting though the lighting was amazing.
I don't get it ,people here are going to play the graphics or the game itself . False marketing is bad yes , but it still look decent and its still a Souls game at its root . I can't believe those waiting out for the pc version would want to drag it till sales , ridiculous .
DaSII is more or less keeping pace with DaS sales. While that may not be thrilling, it's not enough of an issue that execs are going to say "oh, we're not having exceptionally better sales because there was a TGS build that didn't look the same as the final build and that annoyed some guys on Gaf". They're going to say, "This is a niche game that has reached saturation."
I'm not saying to not stand up for your principles. Only that waiting for a sale sends them non-specific information.
DistortionOfReality
Member
Disappointing. I mean, I was always sticking with the console version anyway but still, disappointing to those who were looking forward to it
And I'm happy they ditched the lighting mechanics. If the game was in encompassed in darkness like the TotG, then I'd probably not play it. Dark Areas are annoying and tend to be bullshit. I love what they did with Majula - if more of the game was like that, it'd be awesome. Also thrown in some snow environments.
On the opposite, if you buy it, they will not give a fuck about that situation. So I understand why people will not buy it.
You should have hated Latria Tower then
Have around 50 hours into the PS3 version, pre-ordered this just for the 60fps and 1440p. Yeah, the lighting system from the previous footage/bullshots would have been nice, but I love the game too much not to double dip for the definitive version. FROM continues to hammer out these amazing worlds with so much lore and loot, while I understand the disappointment and outrage of the graphical downgrades, I also think just the sheer level of enjoyment to be had from playing the game outweighs that by a large margin.
I will be praising the Sun deep into 2014.
I will be praising the Sun deep into 2014.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
This was already teetering on "wait for sale" territory. Confirmed now.
It's already appalling enough to have had thathalf quarter assed effort in DS which Durante fixed to only a certain point. No excuses or money from me.
It's already appalling enough to have had that
CadetMahoney
Member
Plus it's not like PC can't do that, so ppl saying it's unrealistic expectations are funny.
I can almost guarantee that pre-orders for Dark Souls II on PC are generating significantly more sales and revenue than the first release.
The port for DSI had such bad word of mouth prior to release.
Other than some poor marketing moves, DSII has always been rumored as a solid port.
The port for DSI had such bad word of mouth prior to release.
- GFWL
- 30 FPS lock
- No resolution support
Other than some poor marketing moves, DSII has always been rumored as a solid port.
- Arbitrary resolution support
- No DRM
- 60FPS
- Higher price point (Demand is higher, increases revenue potential)
I'm always bewildered by the assumption on GAF of what goes on behind closed doors at executive meetings. They receive reports from their PR company, they get metrics from their marketing department and they apply those to the sales numbers over the course of several hours. It's not some voodoo ceremony.
And unfortunately, many people in this thread are telling those who have chosen to wait for a sale or just skip buying that they're wrong and that they shouldn't stand up for their principles.
SweetJohnnyCage
Member
The rage came as soon as the game hit shelves. We were shown footage being PLAYED by people on consoles, not PCs. Then we're given a downgraded product on the same console. It's really as simple as that. Was the demo at TGS a vertical slice? Almost definitely.
PC players are doubly upset because we hoped for a version closer to the TGS build since playing something like that on an enthusiast-built machine wouldn't take too much effort. When From advertised that PC was the lead platform, we expected it to be as bad-ass looking as originally advertised.
TL;DR - We were shown a different product being played on consoles, then sold a heavily downgraded version. PC version is slightly more robust than consoles, but not nearly as good looking as originally advertised. It's no Space Marines, but it's not fair, either.
===
I'd also like to add that DS2 is a WONDERFUL game, despite all this. The gameplay is solid, story is even more cryptic than DS1, and the way NG+ works now is such a great addition to what was in DS1. I thoroughly enjoyed playing it on PS3, and I'm still going to buy the PC version for the community mods and 60fps glory. I just wish it LOOKED as good as originally advertised in trailers, gameplay demos, and screenshots.
Unless you think that FROM intentionally and maliciously deceived customers, I don't know what you think a boycott will achieve. I'm sure they are very aware of all the complaints and can take the criticism onboard.
I don't feel they need to be punished with a boycott over a minor mishandling of marketing. The downgrade itself is disappointing, but it happens. The only thing they're truly guilty of is not wiping all 'old build' media from their marketing materials.
If you plan to boycott them, whatever, but I'm going to be quite upset if enough people join in and I lose out later on for what I feel is people overreacting.
King Gilga
Member
What's up with the lack of character shadows?
Those screenshots look pretty uninspired.
I'll probably pick up the game when it's like sub 10 pounds on a steam sale like I did DS1.
Those screenshots look pretty uninspired.
I'll probably pick up the game when it's like sub 10 pounds on a steam sale like I did DS1.
paperspace
Member
How will it be interpreted? The game wasn't good enough? The DRM was offensive? The price too high? Too many bugs? "I hate this industry, everyone is a liar"?
When they would see a thread like this they would simply shrug their shoulders. It's industry standard and not something they should "fix" on their own. I mean, ok, From stops with "false advertising", and then what? Will Microsoft, Sony and other big publishers follow?
I don't think it's an effective way for telling a message.
I actually thought it was pretty cool. Nothing is worse than TotG. Place was so annoying lol.
Why does it have to be something that changes other big publishers? From is a darling among gamers, people always say that they really "get" gaming. I'm positive that this is in large part why people got upset over this. It's not expected of them.
Not true, the retail game does have that lighting system, but it has been toned down considerably. I know that the difference is drastic, but it's there and that should not be disregarded in the discussion. They promised a new lighting engine and delivered on it whether it's good or not. They also showed the downgrade in preview footage well before release, but there was mixed messaging in some parts (PS Access, Box art), but why do we keep acting like these things didn't happen?
I´m paying full price for it. Souls games have never been about graphics so if i get a better port than DS1 i'm extremely happy about it.
I recently finished Demons Souls on PS3 and even if the game plays on a low resolution, it's a beautiful gem (also, play it grief).
PixelHorror
Member
Where did we get this? Really weird if true.
Yeah, when they release screenshots that are terrible quality, you kind of assume that the nice trailer from months before doesn't apply any more. The retail game does look better than the screenshots though, so that's a plus.
petethepanda
Member
I'm just stunned at the negativity surrounding this port. It is so much better than the first game's.
Lack of GFWL I suppose.
Does the blame truly rest on From/Namco, or journalists?
Since around early January, both From and Namco have been fairly upfront with what the game looks like. They have showed up at all trade events with playable demos, footage, and screenshots from the retail game.
This was seen by hundreds upon hundreds of journalists and not a single one asks or mentions the missing lighting system?
From hasn't been disingenuous, just not exactly transparent throughout. Should they have said something? Sure, but Japanese culture being what it is and hindsight being 20/20 I don't exactly blame them.
We deserve a better class of journalists, and everyone deserves to play the excellent Dark Souls II. Don't let a little miscommunication come between you and the sequel to one of the best games of all time.
*Other than Steam
What I meant is no forced DRM such as GFWL, UPLAY, Tages, etc.
Since around early January, both From and Namco have been fairly upfront with what the game looks like. They have showed up at all trade events with playable demos, footage, and screenshots from the retail game.
This was seen by hundreds upon hundreds of journalists and not a single one asks or mentions the missing lighting system?
From hasn't been disingenuous, just not exactly transparent throughout. Should they have said something? Sure, but Japanese culture being what it is and hindsight being 20/20 I don't exactly blame them.
We deserve a better class of journalists, and everyone deserves to play the excellent Dark Souls II. Don't let a little miscommunication come between you and the sequel to one of the best games of all time.
*Other than Steam
What I meant is no forced DRM such as GFWL, UPLAY, Tages, etc.
Actually no. I'm not entirely happy with the marketing was handled. I don't think its 'the devil' like some people have made it seem and I don't think it was maliciously done, but they certainly did not do a good job with it.
I'm still buying the game, though. Has nothing to do with principles and everything to do with me very much wanting to play DSII.
I have principles, but I'm also not such a stickler that I'm going to let minor issues about the handling of the marketing of a video game get in the way of enjoying my fucking life.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I will. I love the Dark Souls series, but I do not love practices that mislead consumers. So, instead of paying $60 at launch and then buying any or all DLC as it comes out, I will wait a couple of years to buy the entire Deluxe package at an extreme discount. I only paid $5 for the first Dark Souls Prepare to Die Edition, the complete game with all DLC, so I'll wait and do the same with the sequel now too.
The game is fun enough to warrant a purchase, but FROM's disrespectful practices are disgusting enough to preclude paying top dollar for it. That's all IMHO of course. If they had only come out and spoken the truth and owned up to it I wouldn't have honestly given a damn about the reduced graphics. Instead they misled, beat around bushes, and lied and disrespected their consumer base. I don't like companies that do that, and I don't pay top dollar to companies that do.
I really don't know what some people think happened. lol
Ditto, they sure made mistakes, but that's not going to stop me from buying the game (though, I haven't even played DS1 through yet, so probably not at launch), but this isn't some evil masterplan some have made it to be or something huge at all. I can't tell others to not feel how they feel, but I personally don't feel deceived at all despite having no immediate interest in the game either.
I agree, it's cool that they are offering the bare bones basic standards that all PC games are expected to have.
There have been PC ports with fewer options than this that didn't cause massive controversies. Lords of Shadow and Darksiders come to mind.
Game making is a collective effort.There is a large dedicated team behind this game.
You guys are willing to punish this entire team because you feel insulted by the marketers.Its a mistake on the marketing department not necessarily the hundreds who contributed to making this great game.
At the heart of is an unrealistic sense of entitlement more than anything else.
And then reading about people wanting to play the game (only used/steam sale)
REALLY ? You want to have your full experience(only later) for cheap so you can deny the developers the money they earned.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
They lied to consumers by presenting us with false previews and misled us into expecting something that we didn't get, and when asked about it they avoided the issue. Have you seen the videos and screenshots? Have you read their "responses" to the questions? Do you know what this topic is all about?
Some of us don't like being lied to and treated like ignorant child consumers, it's really as simple as that.
If the Steam screenshots are of the actual PC version will he be supporting fraudulent activity?
phantomspiker
Member
This is exactly where I stand on this. Had the port been shoddy I might have backed off, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
What false previews (aside from PS Access trailer with old footage)?
How did they "misled" when the latest preview material represented the retail game and material before that was accurate for the time being and actual gameplay footage of said build? Yes, old screenshots weren't removed, but do you really see it as intention to mislead rather than, say, miscommunication between the development team,publisher and marketing team?
What are the problems with the responses they've given? Performance reasons is very valid answer for the reason of the downgrade?