And Thor Girl is more powerful that Thor
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Ever feel like Marvel could genderswap some roles in their filmverse?
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And Thor Girl is more powerful that Thor
Bad scripting aside, I honestly have no idea how someone could possibly pull off a CG Shulkie and make it look good. None of the Hulks have looked great so far, and comedy has a physical component you'd have to pull up. I kinda wonder if maybe a hybrid of digital enhancement combined with the Lord of the Rings approach might work, so instead of an all-CGI monstrosity, you're just using camera tricks on a fit actress in body paint or something.
Because the Rick Jones aspect is neat. Having a character who is actually replaced with someone else is moderately cooler/more than "generic flight/invulnerability/strength/energy projection." Just think of the comedic GOLD.
I don't think race-swapping Nick Fury was a bad thing for black men in comics.
For that matter, "actual" female characters are generally weak/overlap significantly (almost all powerful female characters are magic users). Original female characters... heck, ANY original superhero in the marvel film universe would be hard.
It's been explained, repeatedly, in this thread why those characters don't work. Lots of overlap/rights issues. The only remotely viable character you've mentioned is Jessica Drew.
I don't think you're thinking like a movie person. The goal here is to keep these movies streamlined. You get about four hours of footage a year, every year, to tell a story. From now to 2028, that's 56 hours of footage. As a result, you need to pick your battles. You need to have characters that don't overlap with others, so female versions of male characters already in the films won't work (She-Hulk's got the best chance).
Marvel movies will fall apart when an idiotic exec tries this.
Within the limitations of the film universe the only way to create a powerful female character is to do a gender swap or create someone new, and creating someone new kinda misses the point of, y'know, adapting the comics to film.
Was.
He wasn't race swapped for the movie. He was made black and inspired from Sam in the ultimate universe. They reused that version for the movies.
YEARS before the movies too. So it isn't a valid example.
I agree in principle. But then again, we've ended up with great female comic and cartoon characters through gender-swaps -- some that easily surpass their male counterparts. I stand by my belief that She-Hulk is a far better character than Hulk for a number of reasons. Fionna and Cake are awesome too, though it's impossible for me for play favorites between them and Finn & Jake.
Overall it's more about the strength of the writing and the design of the character, I think. Just because a dude had the power-set first doesn't mean a gal couldn't rock it better. A character can definitely rise above a lame origin.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
The Ultimate Universe was part of Marvel's foray into the films. It was a soft reboot of the universe to get new readers into the comics. There's a reason why the biggest books for a while were Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Spider-Man.
The Ultimates was them preparing for the Avengers series. They started work on this stuff in about 2001.
If it just about the power, why not just create a character with that power?
Because the whole point of the cinematic universe is to adapt characters to the screen. If you start creating new superheroes in the movies, you're kinda missing the point, and might as well just go off and make your own totally unrelated films.
They adapted and stayed pretty faithful with the comics so far and been rewarded for it. Why stop now? They just need to add more minority characters. Which there are loads ready for film.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Gender-swapping would be a waste of the plethora of great female Avengers who have been created already and are just waiting for inclusion.
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Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I wouldn't say it's just about the power, more like the power combined with the personality. For example (and not to overuse the word "Power"), I wouldn't consider Power Girl a gender-swap of Superman even though she has pretty much the same abilities (and a convoluted origin that ranges from "derivative" to "terrible and derivative"). How she thinks and acts helps to differentiate her from her closest counterpart, same with She-Hulk.
Ideally, these characters would have been conceived from the get-go as strong, independent women who didn't need to be propped up by a male superhero. But they're strong and independent now, and that's all I really care about.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Does she have the requisite spunk though?
Well, first, they have changed a LOT. Simplified it, for one thing. They've also ensured very little overlap between characters. Rhodey's never going to get a solo movie like he has a solo comic, because we don't need two movies featuring guys who basically have the same equipment.
Almost all the women suggested so far are weaker than men. Which is the entire reason I came up with the thread. I want characters who are equal with the men. Having a female Sentry is way different than bringing Tigra on the team. One of them can fly and shoot laser beams. The other is... um. Whatever Tigra does. Honestly, I don't think I've ever actually seen her do anything in comics aside from wear a bikini.
Wasp basically tied to Hank, and Marvel wants to avoid the abuse angle, it seems. They're trying very hard to keep him out, in case you haven't noticed.
Already mentioned Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk. Don't want to run into the overlap with Hulk though, would rather just see a solo She-Hulk movie.
Photon's powers are to "blast light at people" and she should headline Agents of HATE, which needs to be a thing, because it's the greatest comic book of all time.
Spider-Woman can't really go toe-to-toe with Hulk or Thor as explained in the OP, and also I THINK Marvel either can't use or is trying to avoid her due to confusion with the spider-man movies.
Mockingbird got the super soldier serum at one point, but more likely than not, they'll just have her as "woman who does random kung fu."
Firestar's a mutant, can't be used.
Tigra, Hellcat, and Songbird are all like C-tier characters (Hellcat's comic by Katherine Immonen is amazing). None of them fit the requirement to go toe-to-toe with hulk/iron man/thor. Also, Hellcat's origin story is absolutely INSANE, and Tigra's just kinda stupid all-around.
Also, I kinda think Songbird overlaps with Falcon too much as "character who can fly with wings on."
This is one of the reasons why I wouldn't mind a gender swap with Sentry (because of the interesting 1960s thing, convincing people she's not crazy, etc) or Mar-Vell (because of the body swap thing, where two distinct people function in the same role). There's a much more interesting person behind there. Sure, I could just go with Power Princess, but that name is dumb, and the background is "basically just Wonder Woman." Wonder Woman's entire backstory and stuff is stupidly bad.
so...they made most of the characters assholes to prepare for the movieverse? then didnt use all but a few aspects of said universe in their movie universe? that doesnt make sense
Caity Lotz would be able to play a perfect Captain Marvel, based on her.... *performance* in Arrow.
Honestly, it is weird that there is almost no one who could be a proper female character without genderswap.
IF we go down the cosmic route, however, Medusa needs to come.
Carol could do that, and only her. (Oh and She-hulk, yeah, forgot that. But am I crazy for thinking that Ms. Marvel could beat She-hulk?
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Honestly, it is weird that there is almost no one who could be a proper female character without genderswap.
IF we go down the cosmic route, however, Medusa needs to come.
Carol could do that, and only her. (Oh and She-hulk, yeah, forgot that. But am I crazy for thinking that Ms. Marvel could beat She-hulk?
)they dont address tonys alcoholism, theres no reason to address the slap in the movie
that and it seems that wrights favorite ant man is lang
and comparing falcon to songbird because they can fly? i guess ironman and thor are the same too. what kinda argument is that?
So you just want woman to beat up the hulk? It ain't all about the raw power, it si how you use it.
Very odd planning I would say.
Define toe to toe.
Whatever the OP defines it as. It's one of the hardest to work with constraints put forth. Number of heroes that are capable of putting them down, aren't c-listers, and aren't mutants seems really small.
Sersi could turn him into a cat , Carol could drain his gamma energy, Mantis can calm him down with her space hippy bullshit, etc. People need to get beyond punch, kick, fights.
photon could do major damage to him as well. it seems odd that the hulk is a milestone when there are tons of dope characters that are getting overlooked because of
hell give it enough time for zemo to come out, then make a thunderbolts movie with songbird as lead
CountAntonius
Member
Yes. I would love to see a male Phoenix.
lame ass quentin quire exists. have at him
Yep.
There are dozens of female superheroes in Marvel Comics already.
Marvel needs to stop being afraid of letting them carry their own movie.
I agree -- honestly, at face value, the concept of "superheroes" is kind of boring. It's just a collection of brightly-colored spandex and capes with mix-'em-match-'em powers drawn from a stock library. The people in the costumes are what give the characters depth; they make the characters who they are, they make them relatable to us mere mortals.
So I don't really see it as an issue of swapping genders, because that's (usually) not the only thing going on. She-Hulk and Power Girl don't work because they're The Hulk and Superman in women's bodies; they work because they're unique people with their own personalities, desires, ways of approaching problems, and so on. Same with the female / male versions of Sentry, even though they share a name and costume. I'd love to see a woman Sentry if the character ever shows up in a film.
Quentin doesn't even have red hair.
TheCowboyPoet
Member
Spider-Woman's film rights are owned by Marvel since she doesn't have much to do with Spider-Man so a film featuring Jessica Drew is very likely. Though I'm betting they wouldn't want to confuse audiences and probably wouldn't call her Spider-Woman.
Male? Quite a few (see: all heralds, a ton of people on Planet Hulk, etc). Female? Almost exclusively magic users, which runs into
Rhino ain't the Hulk.
Hit him with a tank and send him flying, for a start.
Right, but the X-Women are stuck under Singer's horrible, horrible thumb and you can't put them on the Avengers. Otherwise, I'd just straight-up make an X-Men movie set in the Jim Lee era versus Apocalypse, with the Rogue/Psylocke team (Blue team?).
Congratulations, space magic. We already have that with Scarlet Witch. Magic is one of those things that rarely works well in comics to begin with. Back in the OP, I suggested Mar-Vell and Sentry for a reason. They have a deeper story than just "oh hey I can punch some stuff. Mar-Vell had a physical swap with another person. Sentry is a hero who forgot he was a hero, someone out of sync with the universe. There's neat storytelling potential there that we don't have elsewhere.
Monica Rambeau haaaas to be in Agents of HATE. This has to be a movie. It would be the greatest thing Marvel has ever done or will do.
Part of my thing is "how does a woman handle this same situation differently?" With Sentry, a lot of his stuff is... kinda bog standard. Like, we get it. Male pov is the default perspective in film. We more or less know what's going to happen. If it's a female lead, things change. All bets are off. How a woman treats superpowers, I think, is largely going to be fundamentally different than how the man was. And that just straight-up makes for a more interesting story.
I'd like to see a Power Girl movie, incidentally, but DC's continued insistence on grimdark hurts them significantly. If you make a Power Girl movie, you have to make it fun. A lot of people will want to default to I AM WOMAN, RAAARGH, PUNY MAN. Lots of men going "you can't be that awesome" and her proving them wrong. Really boring storytelling. What works best for her is just... her being really happy with who she is. It's why the Palmiotti/Gray/Conner run was so fantastic. Instead of "a lot of dudes underestimate superman-lite," it was "so this totally awesome superheroine does totally awesome things like saving New York and taking her subterranean friend out to watch horror movies just to freak her out."
None of teh characters i listed are magic based, not even Warlock's funky quantum magic.
I am like 80% certain I said something about before Bendis ruined his character.
yeah I don't see them tackling Sentry on screen, if they do it is in name only.
so then you want an all new character then
That run really was outstanding (due in no small part to Conner's incredible artwork). And I agree that the DC films have run off the rails in entirely the wrong tonal direction lately. Granted I would imagine it's hard to write a "happy" Batman story, but it's a tragedy to see Superman be stuffed into the company of bombastic, heavy-handed, ultra-grim superhero movies that take themselves way too seriously. Power Girl can't suffer the same fate. I won't allow it! (Not that she'll ever star in a movie at this rate.)
That one page spread of Power Girl and Terra in the cinema is in my top ten of favorite comic book moments. They just saved Manhattan in spectacular fashion, and now they're enjoying themselves and watching a horror movie together. You know you have a good character when you can be entertained by watching her eat popcorn in between bench-pressing apartment buildings.
I'm sure that a lot of executives think it's pointless or difficult to showcase a woman as a superhero, but it's really not that hard. Just have her be her own character, standing on her own two feet, doing awesome shit all the time without playing second fiddle to dudes.
No it is NOT.
It is the easiest way to put a woman super hero on screen, which will make MUCH MORE PEOPLE KNOWN THE CHARACTER than creating a new character, marketing it to a market who as sexist as gamers only acepting hot women and then trying to pitch it a movie about her.
Give cate blantchet or tilda swilton a non sexualized robe and call her Stephanie Strange.
THEN you will have girls seeing in the big screen something they can relate and feel they can be superheroes too.
Not in a niche cult comic book that needs to survive in a world full of big names
Vermillion
Banned
I think it's lazy. There are female characters that deserve their own movies (Carol and Storm, please, God), and I don't want to see gender-swapped characters before they get their own movies.
Also, if Miles Morales gets on screen before BP, I'm punching someone.
EDIT: While I'm here - it'd be better if Danvers got her own movie as opposed to being introduced in a team movie... this way they could hopefully establish Binary.
Original female characters? What are those?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I think it wouldn't work the way you're saying it will. There are plenty of interesting female characters that Marvel has. You don't need to gender swap characters to make them interesting. You just... need to adapt them well and make them interesting enough to watch.
Shit, I've never read a Captain Marvel comic, but if Marvel delivers a badass film with space fights and DBZ style ass kicking and heavy doses of sarcastic wit, I'm in.
For characters that are somewhat more obscure like Doctor Strange, I don't think you'll get much reception whether the character is male or female. Most of the people I'd ask would probably not know much about Doctor Strange other than he does magic. Making him into a woman wouldn't change much.
Use the Characters you have or make new ones. Gender Swapping, Race Swapping etc. is a sign that you don't have any faith in the original creations and you need to gimmick it up to try and find success. It also does a disservice to the countless characters already created as they are apparently useless so you need a female captain america or whatever
There are so many Female Superheroes/Villians out there already that they could use.
hell look at Falcon. He really wasn't that awesome a character in the comics. Oh he can talk to birds and fly woohoo. Instead of trying to radically change him they simply modernized him and he came across as an awesome character in TWS.
There are so many Female Superheroes/Villians out there already that they could use.
hell look at Falcon. He really wasn't that awesome a character in the comics. Oh he can talk to birds and fly woohoo. Instead of trying to radically change him they simply modernized him and he came across as an awesome character in TWS.
Vermillion
Banned
Captain Marvel just re-started. Issue #2 came out today.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I don't see why a movie exec would need or want female Vision.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
She's starting to show her age :'(
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