How is the name of the series an argument?
It's not the name. It's not even the mechanics, like he (she?) said. It's more important than just a title. It's an experience. A principle.
How is the name of the series an argument?
"I don't want people to get hung up on the way Link looks because ultimately Link represents the player in the game," he said.
Who's saying the series needs to change in the way they want?
Also, things like saying "instead of accepting how the series works" are often used to stifle criticism. If people feel like they want change, then they absolutely should say it. The developers are entitled to do what they want of course, but people are allowed to criticize and complain too.
God if some people here think Link is an established character with personality traits I'd hate to see what their baseline for being a character is. Maybe the bag floating in the wind at the end of American Beauty was a character, too.
Link is an ICON. If you want to make the statement that Link is an icon of the Legend of Zelda series, that makes sense. He is. But he is not a character. Characters have traits. They have a personality. When they're the protagonist (which he is) they go through arcs and grow and become something different and more. Link does none of that stuff. Even in the games where he starts as a normal person (Twilight Princess, Wind Waker) he doesn't go through an arc, he just starts as a normal dude, instantly proves himself to be brave by jumping into danger, and then continuing to do that the entire game. His braveness is at the start and it at the end.
He is an established icon, he is not an established character. He's not a character. The reincarnation of the Hero could easily be a girl in a game. It could even be not white! You have 17 games where this blank slate is a male white guy, and there's nothing in the rules that says that has to continue. Mario, Samus, etc are all the same guy. Link isn't, by the series' rules they're (mostly) all new people. Let him be an ACTUALLY new person for once and give me a reason to call him an established character.
Link is such a pretty boy that a lot of people were mistaking the new version for a girl. (Aunuma's joke helped.) The opportunity here is that a gender swap for Link is plausible not just because of his appearance. It would be totally consistent within the series' lore, and would add an interesting new dimension to classic Zelda tropes.What opportunity? I don't get it.
Are you saying this for 95% of the games btw?
"Sony just missed a huge chance by not making Sackgirl?"
I mean, yeah, it didn't matter to you. Again, I feel like you are missing the point. "if it's not required then it shouldn't bother people". This just sounds like you simply do not care about the meanings and values people impart into characters in the media, especially one that has existed (as a male, for better or worse) for decades. It may not be required but that's not going to stop someone from identifying with that character. It's not required for Tomb Raider to be a woman. But I identify with her nonetheless. I think your onward march in seeking better representation has kind of blinded you to some things. imoWhile I still don't think Link being a boy really mattered in either of those two, it goes to show that if it's not required then him being female in one game really shouldn't bother people.
It's a little more than just being about a fictional character. This was a huge chance for Nintendo to have a female lead in one of their popular franchises which is something the industry is in much need of.
So many women have been wanting better representation and Nintendo toyed with them by instead of stopping the speculation immediately they decide to worsen it with their comments.
Well, as Aonuma has said, he wants to shake up the series' traditions so yes there's reason for them to change it.The Zelda series is basically hero saves princess and the world. You can like or dislike the premise but there is no reason for Nintendo to change it.
Eiji Aonuma: That might be something that consciously we kind of did, but not to say anything specific I am not saying anything specific but, I am hoping people continue to comment, and I will continue to follow the fan comments and reactions to the trailer. I am certainly curious, and I am sure there are things we as developers can glean.
Yeah here's hoping too.Oh, I'm aware! I hope that whole mess leads to positive changes in the next installment.
At most, it's just a terribly-delivered joke, and nothing more.
I am sure.
I mean, you have been so adamant in making witty, assumptive one-liners in this thread it must be difficult to remember stuff.
The OP article says "You know, you have to show Link when you create a trailer for a Zelda announcement."
Aounuma with the #NawSon
Why are you saying Tomb Raider?I mean, yeah, it didn't matter to you. Again, I feel like you are missing the point. "if it's not required then it shouldn't bother people". This just sounds like you simply do not care about the meanings and values people impart into characters in the media, especially one that has existed (as a male, for better or worse) for decades. It may not be required but that's not going to stop someone from identifying with that character. It's not required for Tomb Raider to be a woman. But I identify with her nonetheless. I think your onward march in seeking better representation has kind of blinded you to some things. imo
I support a female Link but I do not support a pick your gender Link. I can also understand why people would be bothered by such a change.
I have to ask... why is no one discussing this part?
Seems rather odd that they consciously made the decision to make him look more feminine, and that there is something to it ("I am not saying anything specific...")
There is something more to this design.
The OP article says "You know, you have to show Link when you create a trailer for a Zelda announcement."
Aounuma with the #NawSon
No one even knew it was a joke until he clarified today. No matter what what he said was shitty and he shouldn't have encouraged the speculation.
As long as link, the hero of time, and his genitals are reincarnated time and again to save the world, then all is good. I'm very glad that some were clearly wrong about link's gender this time and he is the light skin, blonde hair male we've all comes to love game after game, alternate reality after alternate reality. Each game is like a reboot, a completely new tale to tell. The tale about how this man has saved the world yet again. If you are a female, take solace, there are many non-playable background characters which are female. There is no need to wish the main character to reflect your gender so much as once.
It could quite possibly just the developers gauging a reaction to a change of general Link's design (blue tunic, no hat, no sword/shield ect.)
Another interesting comment I've heard, quite frequently actually, is that, "Oh Link's a woman. Link is female now."
Interviewer: I thought that, too. I thought maybe it was Zelda when I first saw Link on Epona in the distance.
Eiji Aonuma: That might be something that consciously we kind of did, but not to say anything specific – I am not saying anything specific – but, I am hoping people continue to comment, and I will continue to follow the fan comments and reactions to the trailer. I am certainly curious, and I am sure there are things we as developers can glean.
It's not the name. It's not even the mechanics, like he (she?) said. It's more important than just a title. It's an experience. A principle.
No matter how much you try and excuse his "joke" that doesn't change the fact that the context for his original comments were anything but one. He made the comment and when it happened there was no joke going on. He's clarified now so of course people are going to look back and say he was joking but at the time his comments were unfair and vague.
Your arguments miss the crux of theirs. He isn't a character! By your justification, video game heroes at large are not characters. Character, icon, the word you use is irrelevant. Link is an attachment, a tradition, an enduring and unchanging emblem. And as has been said in this thread and its predecessor many times, his gender is, to many, as much a part of that as is it is to any other video game icon.
Nope, this comment was in specific, talking about Link's gender.
I have to ask... why is no one discussing this part?
Seems rather odd that they consciously made the decision to make him look more feminine, and that there is something to it ("I am not saying anything specific...")
There is something more to this design.
It's the gender of a fictional character no reason to be depressed.
I would argue that, in an even broader sense, Link is not the icon: his outfit is. Green tunic, long green hat, shield, sword, brown boots. The art style will change, and thus the character's appearance will change, but those things will always make him Link and are always there. You can stick all those on a girl, and she would still be recognizably Link. That's the important point.
Yes? That is why I said it's a terribly-delivered joke. Not a brilliant one.
I'll give you this: you are so first-class in being overly dramatic.
And probably the person that is most obsessed with genitals out of all who participate in this thread.
On the other hand it is kind of depressing how you suddenly realize that a company that's innovative in some ways is actually very boring and conservative at the same time.
Once we've gotten past the initial phase of realising that it's cool to play as a female Link, what if it's just the same story again? What if you're just going off to save Zelda, who is whatever gender, and you get to the end and realise it's the exact same story and the only difference is some curves on your polygonal character model, and some female sound effects?
If you're looking for positive messages about femininity in video games, that can be delivered through any of the characters in the game through traditional storytelling. Half Life 2 is a very good example of this, and so are a lot of Zelda games when you look for it.
I think making Link female would be an empty gesture towards gender equality when the character has so few traits to begin with. Real value should come from exploring feminine character, and in the Legend of Zelda that's going to be through telling a story around characters other than Link.
Disclaimer: I get that people want to play as a girl for whatever reason, but I don't think doing so would actually be a positive message for gender equality.
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[edit] And regarding Aonuma's quotes. Not confirming something does not imply an alternative. It is simply not confirming something, and we know what Nintendo are like with secrecy.
Why is a Female Link okay, but don't you want a male Zelda?I still think there is a chance that you will get the option to change Link's gender. I wouldn't want a male Zelda though.
Why is a Female Link okay, but don't you want a male Zelda?
Suddenly? Nintendo has mostly been like thatOn the other hand it is kind of depressing how you suddenly realize that a company that's innovative in some ways is actually very boring and conservative at the same time.
Paper thin stories? What?Link is an empty shell, an automaton to get you through the puzzles and game challenges. Zelda games have paper thin stores. It's the gesture of allowing you to be a female that counts IMO.
He never said he was joking until today. You cannot call peoples specualtion overreacting just because he later clarified that he was joking. Context matters and in this case people were reacting to his comments when they were first made.I'm not "excusing his joke". I'm stating facts. He said outright "it was a joke," and so it was, unless you're accusing him of lying. He said outright "I never explicitly stated that was Link", not "I never said the character was a man". I still think the majority of the outrage is because people believed what they wanted to believe and couldn't let it go when proven otherwise. And that's the last I have to say on it because I honestly feel like it shouldn't be a big deal.
Awesome thanks!Yeah, I think this is the one.
You're other post seemed to imply that it wasn't a shitty thing to do just because his joke was just a terrible joke.Yes? That is why I said it's a terribly-delivered joke. Not a brilliant one.
Lara is a character, though. She speaks, has a back story and is actually her own personality.I mean, yeah, it didn't matter to you. Again, I feel like you are missing the point. "if it's not required then it shouldn't bother people". This just sounds like you simply do not care about the meanings and values people impart into characters in the media, especially one that has existed (as a male, for better or worse) for decades. It may not be required but that's not going to stop someone from identifying with that character. It's not required for Tomb Raider to be a woman. But I identify with her nonetheless. I think your onward march in seeking better representation has kind of blinded you to some things. imo
I support a female Link but I do not support a pick your gender Link. I can also understand why people would be bothered by such a change.
It will be interesting to see how much this will hold up when we get more art not in a twisted torso, jumping stance with bent legs, or riding a horse. I'm guessing it won't at all.
I don't see why it making Link female would have to be viewed as making her female just for the sake of it. Why couldn't it be viewed as just something completely normal? That it's just the way Link is this time?I honestly don't see the big hubub regarding Link not being female. He's been Male until now and although they're shaking up the gameplay, changing Link to be female isn't solving the issue of not having enough female characters. It's making a character female for the sake of it and if anything that's worse.
People should put a female character in because they want to, not because they're forced.
I honestly don't see the big hubub regarding Link not being female. He's been Male until now and although they're shaking up the gameplay, changing Link to be female isn't solving the issue of not having enough female characters. It's making a character female for the sake of it and if anything that's worse.
People should put a female character in because they want to, not because they're forced.
On the other hand it is kind of depressing how you suddenly realize that a company that's innovative in some ways is actually very boring and conservative at the same time.
Suddenly? Nintendo has mostly been like that
They innovate, but they're a few steps back in some aspects
People have to also note that Nintendo has made a lot of games with strong female characters
A lot of gamers are now questioning their sexuality.
Why is a Female Link okay, but don't you want a male Zelda?
Er...other than Metroid I'm not thinking of too many big Nintendo franchises with female leads that are well written.Suddenly? Nintendo has mostly been like that
They innovate, but they're a few steps back in some aspects
People have to also note that Nintendo has made a lot of games with strong female characters
Yeah but IIRC she doesn't do anything in her original games that would require her to be a woman. Idk I just said her because she's the most important character I could think of. I could be off in my comparison.Why are you saying Tomb Raider?
She's a defined person with a character arc and her name is Lara Croft, you can't have a guy called Lara Croft, you would just end up with a different character called Leon or whatever.
Somehow this works fine in Pokemon. Blue Oak is still going to be an asshole to you whether they were friends with you when you're a boy or a girl. Elm and the rest of New Bark Town still know you and have a history past the choose your character screen. Barry is still going to be best buds with Lucas or Dawn.
The mass effect series also has the peotagonist having history with other characters who already know you, but the choice is still there and somehow it didn't destroy everyone's immersion every time they go through that character creator screen.
Choosing a name is still altering the character. You can't just say one is an atmosphere destroying thing and act like the other isn't and that's why they shouldn't include it as an option.
You say that you always choose Link as the name anyway, what would stop you from just choosing boy Link anyway?
Hello sir! Might you perchance assist me in my endeavour to identify he to whom this damsel's vestments affect a likeness?As long as link, the hero of time, and his genitals are reincarnated time and again to save the world, then all is good. I'm very glad that some were clearly wrong about link's gender this time and he is the light skin, blonde hair male we've all comes to love game after game, alternate reality after alternate reality. Each game is like a reboot, a completely new tale to tell. The tale about how this man has saved the world yet again. If you are a female, take solace, there are many non-playable background characters which are female. There is no need to wish the main character to reflect your gender so much as once.
At the risk of retreading old ground, you could say the same of putting a dude in a Varia Suit and blue lycra. Whether or not the clothes make themanicon is a matter of opinion.
Yeah but IIRC she doesn't do anything in her original games that would require her to be a woman. Idk I just said her because she's the most important character I could think of. I could be off in my comparison.