It's not the name. It's not even the mechanics, like he (she?) said. It's more important than just a title. It's an experience. A principle.
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Aonuma: That was Link in the Wii U Zelda trailer, denies 'female' rumors
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It's not the name. It's not even the mechanics, like he (she?) said. It's more important than just a title. It's an experience. A principle.
PdotMichael
Banned
The Zelda series is basically hero saves princess and the world. You can like or dislike the premise but there is no reason for Nintendo to change it.
truestatic
Member
Your arguments miss the crux of theirs. He isn't a character! By your justification, video game heroes at large are not characters. Character, icon, the word you use is irrelevant. Link is an attachment, a tradition, an enduring and unchanging emblem. And as has been said in this thread and its predecessor many times, his gender is, to many, as much a part of that as is it is to any other video game icon.
Monocle
Member
Link is such a pretty boy that a lot of people were mistaking the new version for a girl. (Aunuma's joke helped.) The opportunity here is that a gender swap for Link is plausible not just because of his appearance. It would be totally consistent within the series' lore, and would add an interesting new dimension to classic Zelda tropes.
I mean, yeah, it didn't matter to you. Again, I feel like you are missing the point. "if it's not required then it shouldn't bother people". This just sounds like you simply do not care about the meanings and values people impart into characters in the media, especially one that has existed (as a male, for better or worse) for decades. It may not be required but that's not going to stop someone from identifying with that character. It's not required for Tomb Raider to be a woman. But I identify with her nonetheless. I think your onward march in seeking better representation has kind of blinded you to some things. imo
I support a female Link but I do not support a pick your gender Link. I can also understand why people would be bothered by such a change.
SkeptiMism
Member
Well, as Aonuma has said, he wants to shake up the series' traditions so yes there's reason for them to change it.
But yes, the hero could still save the princess just fine even if Link was female.
KojiKnight
Member
I have to ask... why is no one discussing this part?
Seems rather odd that they consciously made the decision to make him look more feminine, and that there is something to it ("I am not saying anything specific...")
There is something more to this design.
Seems rather odd that they consciously made the decision to make him look more feminine, and that there is something to it ("I am not saying anything specific...")
There is something more to this design.
Yeah here's hoping too.
Is there a thread about it? I couldn't find one.
No one even knew it was a joke until he clarified today. No matter what what he said was shitty and he shouldn't have encouraged the speculation.
As long as link, the hero of time, and his genitals are reincarnated time and again to save the world, then all is good. I'm very glad that some were clearly wrong about link's gender this time and he is the light skin, blonde hair male we've all comes to love game after game, alternate reality after alternate reality. Each game is like a reboot, a completely new tale to tell. The tale about how this man has saved the world yet again. If you are a female, take solace, there are many non-playable background characters which are female. There is no need to wish the main character to reflect your gender so much as once.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Yeah, I know. I'm saying I don't understand why "female Link" was ever discussed in the first place.
The Silver
Member
Why are you saying Tomb Raider?
She's a defined person with a character arc and her name is Lara Croft, you can't have a guy called Lara Croft, you would just end up with a different character called Leon or whatever.
It could quite possibly just the developers gauging a reaction to a change of general Link's design (blue tunic, no hat, no sword/shield ect.)
Link is the horse! What a twist!
DangerMouse
Member
Also, I don't think most came in demanding from the devs it be a girl (or playable Zelda) let alone before they taunted "something they might have consciously done" themselves. That happened based on the trailer and was all of their own making, Aonuma's comments, all the key unusual touches about the character, the appearance including skewing even further, let alone their actions like wrong-handed (something they're usually extremely careful about, did they suddenly forget?!), Zelda's signature weapon, etc.
activatethesmile
Member
Yes? That is why I said it's a terribly-delivered joke. Not a brilliant one.
I'll give you this: you are so first-class in being overly dramatic.
And probably the person that is most obsessed with genitals out of all that participate in this thread.
KojiKnight
Member
Nope, this comment was in specific, talking about Link's gender.
(edit)
Full quote in context...
truestatic
Member
AlphaDragoon
Member
I'm not "excusing his joke". I'm stating facts. He said outright "it was a joke," and so it was, unless you're accusing him of lying. He said outright "I never explicitly stated that was Link", not "I never said the character was a man". I still think the majority of the outrage is because people believed what they wanted to believe and couldn't let it go when proven otherwise. And that's the last I have to say on it because I honestly feel like it shouldn't be a big deal.
Woffls
Member
Once we've gotten past the initial phase of realising that it's cool to play as a female Link, what if it's just the same story again? What if you're just going off to save Zelda, who is whatever gender, and you get to the end and realise it's the exact same story and the only difference is some curves on your polygonal character model, and some female sound effects?
If you're looking for positive messages about femininity in video games, that can be delivered through any of the characters in the game through traditional storytelling. Half Life 2 is a very good example of this, and so are a lot of Zelda games when you look for it.
I think making Link female would be an empty gesture towards gender equality when the character has so few traits to begin with. Real value should come from exploring feminine character, and in the Legend of Zelda that's going to be through telling a story around characters other than Link.
Disclaimer: I get that people want to play as a girl for whatever reason, but I don't think doing so would actually be a positive message for gender equality.
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[edit] And regarding Aonuma's quotes. Not confirming something does not imply an alternative. It is simply not confirming something, and we know what Nintendo are like with secrecy.
If you're looking for positive messages about femininity in video games, that can be delivered through any of the characters in the game through traditional storytelling. Half Life 2 is a very good example of this, and so are a lot of Zelda games when you look for it.
I think making Link female would be an empty gesture towards gender equality when the character has so few traits to begin with. Real value should come from exploring feminine character, and in the Legend of Zelda that's going to be through telling a story around characters other than Link.
Disclaimer: I get that people want to play as a girl for whatever reason, but I don't think doing so would actually be a positive message for gender equality.
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[edit] And regarding Aonuma's quotes. Not confirming something does not imply an alternative. It is simply not confirming something, and we know what Nintendo are like with secrecy.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I would argue that, in an even broader sense, Link is not the icon: his outfit is. Green tunic, long green hat, shield, sword, brown boots. The art style will change, and thus the character's appearance will change, but those things will always make him Link and are always there. You can stick all those on a girl, and she would still be recognizably Link. That's the important point.
If we're going to go that route, you can also say that Aonuma never said that Link wasn't a female in the article in the OP. He just says 'yeah, that's Link'
DangerMouse
Member
Agreed that's why I brought it up too. And then to draw further attention to this exact decision on purpose, so odd.
On the other hand it is kind of depressing how you suddenly realize that a company that's innovative in some ways is actually very boring and conservative at the same time.
truestatic
Member
At the risk of retreading old ground, you could say the same of putting a dude in a Varia Suit and blue lycra. Whether or not the clothes make the
I honestly don't see the big hubub regarding Link not being female. He's been Male until now and although they're shaking up the gameplay, changing Link to be female isn't solving the issue of not having enough female characters. It's making a character female for the sake of it and if anything that's worse.
People should put a female character in because they want to, not because they're forced.
People should put a female character in because they want to, not because they're forced.
Its a deflectionary tactic by someone who doesn't really have a strong argument for their own position. So they attempt to ridicule other positions and often just keep repeating the same thing verbatim. Learned all this in a debate class once and I always pick up on it when intense discussions happen, even on the Internet. The purpose is to come up with a ludicrous statement that somewhat embodies what others have said, but turn it so outlandish people can't help but laugh. And by repeating it over and over, it gets stuck in others minds so that if anyone brings up a valid and well thought out point that bears some resemblance, they're easily laughed at and their contribution invalidated.
activatethesmile
Member
Well.......... Hyrule Warriors feature many playable women and Splatoon is also a step to the right direction. Not to mention Samus.
Link is an empty shell, an automaton to get you through the puzzles and game challenges. Zelda games have paper thin stores. It's the gesture of allowing you to be a female that counts IMO.
Why is a Female Link okay, but don't you want a male Zelda?
"Linka" is alright, but "Zeldo" just doesn't roll off the tongue.
Suddenly? Nintendo has mostly been like that
They innovate, but they're a few steps back in some aspects
People have to also note that Nintendo has made a lot of games with strong female characters
Paper thin stories? What?
He never said he was joking until today. You cannot call peoples specualtion overreacting just because he later clarified that he was joking. Context matters and in this case people were reacting to his comments when they were first made.
Also Koji brought up a good point regarding his comments about the design being intended to cause speculation. Both of his comments combined with the design and yet you honestly think people were reading too much into things?
Awesome thanks!
You're other post seemed to imply that it wasn't a shitty thing to do just because his joke was just a terrible joke.
Lara is a character, though. She speaks, has a back story and is actually her own personality.
Link is none of those. He's always been a self insert for players. Hell, the creators have made comments saying the same thing. His only game where gender mattered was SS.
Minister of the Dog
Member
This is what I was thinking. The posture Link has in that picture is so contorted that he looks like an artist from the Cirque du Soleil.
SkeptiMism
Member
I don't see why it making Link female would have to be viewed as making her female just for the sake of it. Why couldn't it be viewed as just something completely normal? That it's just the way Link is this time?
And if Link was female at one time, why would Aonuma have been forced to do it?
Malcolm9
Member
I agree, shoehorning something in just because you feel like you have to is not the way to go.
I'd prefer there to be sections of the game where a female character, or Zelda, fight alongside you, or where you play as a female character in specific parts of the story to flesh the characters out more.
activatethesmile
Member
Well.......... Hyrule Warriors feature many playable women and Splatoon is also a step to the right direction. Not to mention Samus. Hopefully Nintendo can bring more playable female characters/leads in their more mainstream series in the future.
Edit: what the hell? Weird double post.........
truestatic
Member
Are there though? Beyond the obvious Metroid games and ensemble casts, I'm drawing a blank.
Man I wasn't even questioning, I wanted that Link to be my boyfriend the first time I saw him
I wouldn't care either way but I think a Female Link saving Female Zelda is a far more interesting story take.
But that would all depend on how they wrote their story.
Er...other than Metroid I'm not thinking of too many big Nintendo franchises with female leads that are well written.
Yeah but IIRC she doesn't do anything in her original games that would require her to be a woman. Idk I just said her because she's the most important character I could think of. I could be off in my comparison.
Mushroomer25
Member
If you're upholding PokeMon as proof that you can still tell rich stories with a variable lead character, you're grasping at straws. The most interesting story told within the PokeMon universe only happened once Twitch started controlling it.
Mass Effect is unique, mainly because you set up your character's backstory as a part of the character creation process. That's how you have a legend, and it's what they base the character relationships off of (when one is presumed to have met you prior to the game's beginning). For a game as sprawling and focused on relationships as ME, it works. They made the sort of game that allowed them to write complex, interesting plots that worked with different spins on the MC. Zelda is not going to do that. I don't want that to be Zelda.
This is a simple matter of storytelling. If I'm writing a plot for a game, and I know exactly who the main character is - all their traits, all their characteristics - it allows me to treat it like any other medium. I can write a huge sprawling narrative that happens both before and after the game itself. Characters who interact with the lead can have a history, because they've interacted and I can craft stories about who they were - and why they are who they are now.
But let's say I can change the name of the character. No huge deal. The name doesn't mean much. Sure, if the character is some universe-breaking thing, it would theoretically be a part of their history - but at that point, it's a fault on the player and not my issue.
Now let's say I can change their gender. Depending on the world I'm trying to write, that might have massive consequences. Depending on that variable, they may have interacted with a certain character in a different way - left that interaction with different impressions of each other.
Why not change race as well? Now I've got to wonder about that. If Link can have a different skin color, does that alter how he's seen in his community? Are individuals more or less willing to trust him?
And sure, you may say "Just don't write characters that treat people differently based on those variables". But that's creatively stifling. If I'm writing a game where the player can be any gender or race and ensure that has zero influence on the story - that means I'm limited to writing stories where gender & race are non-issues.
Sure. Some of these concepts may not come up all that often in a Zelda game. But there are artists who craft these worlds, and have detailed visions to the lore & mystery behind them. It's what makes this franchise so beloved - the rich nature of the world. Introducing a customizable player character puts a reign on that creativity. And I want to avoid that at all costs.
Monocle
Member
Hello sir! Might you perchance assist me in my endeavour to identify he to whom this damsel's vestments affect a likeness?
'Tis a mystery most vexing.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I could not say that, no. Samus has had characterization, even if it has been terrible in some games (Metroid: Other M). She got development through text in Metroid Fusion. We learned about her, she expressed emotions and desires. She was no longer a blank slate, she was someone. Link has yet to do that in any game.
And at the risk of retreading old ground: Samus is one character. There are 13 different Links.
I think Gordon Freeman would be a better example.