I just don't understand how 'forcing' someone to change a mute, constantly reincarnating avatar to a female could possibly make things worse. And why describe this as 'forced' instead of 'fan feedback'?
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Aonuma: That was Link in the Wii U Zelda trailer, denies 'female' rumors
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I just don't understand how 'forcing' someone to change a mute, constantly reincarnating avatar to a female could possibly make things worse. And why describe this as 'forced' instead of 'fan feedback'?
Woffls
Member
So you think there's more value in someone at Nintendo thinking "We should make Link female to make people happy" than them actually exploring feminine character in the game and crafting a message for people?
activatethesmile
Member
This is not related to the notion that Link = must be a guy, but I always disagree whenever anyone states this. Link has been shown many times as a character of personality and not just a mindless avatar like Gordon Freeman. Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, I'd even argue for OoT and MM... etc etc.
Mushroomer25
Member
I assure you, at least 10 different bloggers are all racing as we speak to get out an article detailing their outrage.
truestatic
Member
Sorry, it's been forever since I've played Fusion and I've never touched Other M. I guess that you could also make the argument that even before the gameplay was peppered liberally with Samus' inner monologue, there have been strong themes of motherhood since Metroid II.
All that said, I think that in describing Link's incarnation, different is a strong word.
This isn't an either or thing though.
KojiKnight
Member
Not really my intention so much as just pointing out that there is apparently more to this decision by Aonuma than simply "I like this look." It was a conscious decision to make him look more feminine and I'm genuinely curious as to why.
My argument is fundamentally strong enough. The counter argument is no more complex than "but the hero in this tale has to be male" for no other reason than tradition despite the lore easily allowing more flexibility as to how the protagonist can be depicted. I'm left wondering where this insistence that he remain male comes from.
Haunted
Member
You get the sense that Aonuma didn't want the question to become such a big focal point and that the discussion was mostly ignoring the environment, graphics, their open world changes etc.
So he clarified to steer the discussion within the fanbase back to the merits of the trailer. It's a feminine looking Link, probably the most elven-ish he has looked in quite a while, but still Link.
I for one am extremely excited to see more of the game after that trailer.
So he clarified to steer the discussion within the fanbase back to the merits of the trailer. It's a feminine looking Link, probably the most elven-ish he has looked in quite a while, but still Link.
I for one am extremely excited to see more of the game after that trailer.
These are most of your last few posts. It's like what are you trying to contribute or say, other than being extremely disingenuous, borderline trolling in a sense?
Woffls
Member
I know, but that's missing the point of the discussion that I thought I was having. What do people want from this? Which one is important to them?
Female Link would make sense. He is supposed to "link" the player to the game. A female option would help that. Plus Link has been androgynous for awhile now, so it isn't much of a stretch. In most games it wouldn't matter if Link was female anyway.
There would be reason to make Zelda a male other than to go "look, everything is opposite". Zelda has never been androgynous, she has a female name, and it wouldn't make sense in the canon to have a male Zelda. Now, if for whatever reason the plot demanded the character to be a love interest, I wouldn't mind a character similar to Zelda but not named Zeldan or something stupid.
activatethesmile
Member
Feminine look seems like a major thing in Japan's entertainment industry, so probably he's just influenced by it, hahaha.
There's a lot of verbal backlash now against companies who don't add female characters to their games and when you have a series that's 25 years old or more when every single game has featured a young male hero, a young female princess and an evil villain of some kind, that's somewhat a series tradition at this point.
Aonuma is a clever guy and if he wanted a female main character he wouldn't use link, he could easily use any other character, including a game where Zelda is the main hero for example. Using Link would feel somewhat forced to me atleast. I don't think I could sit there and see female link (not that I'd mind, I prefer female characters) and see it as anything other than being forced to avoid the backlash of the vocal minority on twitter who could hurt their reputation as a games development company.
DangerMouse
Member
Perhaps even regular news sites after Tomodachi Life.
Zeyphersan
Banned
In-universe they're all different, in actuality they're basically the same. Which I think is kind of my greater point, even beyond Link being a girl: what's the point of going out of your way to make different Links if they're not going to do anything with that concept? Above all else, it feels like wasted potential.
I'm out for the night, been good having this back and forth with you. Thanks for staying civil
Lynd7
Member
I dunno, Zelda is reincarnated too..
I like keeping established characters in their original gender. Don't need to take away the male character, just do something more interesting with the established female cast, or create a new one.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
He should've known better. Nerds literally froth at the mouth when it comes to female empowerment and will run with any scrap of hope.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Awwwwww, I was really hoping it would turn out to be Zelda. It would have been a nice little mix up....
Well I guess its Link after all. I’m gonna presume you can customise him and find different equipment.
Well I guess its Link after all. I’m gonna presume you can customise him and find different equipment.
"Would be neat to have a female character in a game where the lore allows for it"
-> The world is going down...
I see your logic.
The argument that Link must always depicted as male, despite the concept of alternate timelines and realities is ridiculous and I am ridiculing the ridiculous.
truestatic
Member
The point is the thin pretext to make game after game with such strong story and cast parallels. It's an excuse for Link to help Zelda stop Ganon from gaining the Triforce and ruling Hyrule forever, again and again and again and again.
And likewise. Thank you very much! Cheers.
Zeyphersan
Banned
You're going to need to explain that statement
Impeccable
Member
That's unfortunate.
I think this generation will be the one where gamers are mature enough to put pressure on developers for a more diverse set of main characters. At least, I hope.
I think this generation will be the one where gamers are mature enough to put pressure on developers for a more diverse set of main characters. At least, I hope.
Yeah, it's not a straight-up black and white issue. Too bad about Other M and no Wii U proper Metroid. Salt in the wounds.
I'm also one of the people who always feel Zelda should be more bold and I loved Wind Waker since it was different.
Spiffy_1st
Member
There is nothing wrong with playing as a cute girl and trying to look up their skirt when possible. I think you're weird if you don't want to do that.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
I reiterate, Link's gender is not relevant in any of these scenarios. Little-known fact: It is possible for women to be attracted to other women, as well as men!
It's like Marth all over again
I am still ticked over this
Please don't make baseless assumptions. I'm a girl and want female representation.
Really getting tired of these posters coming in and acting like the only ones defending the notion for more female characters are just perverted men.
Malcolm9
Member
Link has been male since the original Legend of Zelda, I hate to point out the obvious but you do seem to be having trouble recognising that fact.
Monocle
Member
The sad thing about this post is that the exact same "lol why would a guy want to play as a girl" mentality is a major reason developers currently pander to gamers with generic handsome white(ish) lead characters. It wouldn't kill you to step into someone else's perspective once in a while.
truestatic
Member
SkeptiMism
Member
I can see what your'e saying, but I just personally don't agree with it mostly. Aonuma keeps saying he wants to shake up Zelda's traditions so I think it'd make sense if he made Link a female once.
Rereading the article, Aonuma never actually says the character in this game isn't a girl.
Technically, he still doesn't even say the character is or is not Link here. He only refers to what he previously said in the VentureBeat interview.
His intent in saying that is wasn't Link was humor, he admits. He acknowledges the female rumors that resulted from his quip, but doesn't actually, verbally confirm here if they're true or not.
This is true. So why not make a female character who looks just like Link, so fans initially won't think it's an obvious different character? If fans do think it's a female character, is it still Link? He says in the Game Informer article he wanted to inspire speculation and discussion, and boy has he done so with these dodging, weightless statements. Also, this statement could just be a reflection of how obvious it is to Aonuma that the character in the trailer is some incarnation of "Link."
He says "him" in this translation, but if we never hear the original audio we'll never know for sure whether he specifically used a "male" pronoun in Japanese, which as a language doesn't feature gender pronouns in conversation as much as English. Even if he did, he could be referring to the male "icon" Link (who we've discussed) and not the Link in this game.
I'm grasping at straws and feeding my bias and I love it. But I do want to point out that never once does he straight up say the character was Link, he only adds background to his prior comments. He also never disconfirms the female rumors.
This headline, written by MMGN.com, could actually be deemed misleading and reaching. Not once does he say "That was Link." His exact words are, "it's not that I said it wasn't Link."
The "growing rumors" also still stand.
Goodnight everybody!
Technically, he still doesn't even say the character is or is not Link here. He only refers to what he previously said in the VentureBeat interview.
His intent in saying that is wasn't Link was humor, he admits. He acknowledges the female rumors that resulted from his quip, but doesn't actually, verbally confirm here if they're true or not.
This is true. So why not make a female character who looks just like Link, so fans initially won't think it's an obvious different character? If fans do think it's a female character, is it still Link? He says in the Game Informer article he wanted to inspire speculation and discussion, and boy has he done so with these dodging, weightless statements. Also, this statement could just be a reflection of how obvious it is to Aonuma that the character in the trailer is some incarnation of "Link."
He says "him" in this translation, but if we never hear the original audio we'll never know for sure whether he specifically used a "male" pronoun in Japanese, which as a language doesn't feature gender pronouns in conversation as much as English. Even if he did, he could be referring to the male "icon" Link (who we've discussed) and not the Link in this game.
I'm grasping at straws and feeding my bias and I love it. But I do want to point out that never once does he straight up say the character was Link, he only adds background to his prior comments. He also never disconfirms the female rumors.
This headline, written by MMGN.com, could actually be deemed misleading and reaching. Not once does he say "That was Link." His exact words are, "it's not that I said it wasn't Link."
The "growing rumors" also still stand.
Goodnight everybody!
So what? Who cares? It doesn't matter if he's always been male. He was always left-handed until he wasn't. Shit changes.
Lynd7
Member
Yeah, its going to happen more and more over the coming years.
I just think it would mean more and have greater impact if companies like Nintendo created brand new characters and games, instead of trying to swap things around in established brands.
Wouldn't everyone like to play a game built from the ground up with a female main character?
Mushroomer25
Member
Tomodachi Life mostly caught on because Nintendo's brain-dead initial response claimed that including same-sex relationships would be making "a political statement". It was an easy target. And considering how juicy the Assassin's Creed Unity story is shaping up to be, I think most mainstream press outlets will be more preoccupied in that area of news while this inevitably settles down.
But it's always been a different character each game.
The whole point is that one game not featuring a male Link is not going to destroy the Zelda series. If many hardcore Zelda fans can embrace the idea of a female Link then it just seems silly for others to get so defensive. He's a self insert with no personality save for a few games, mainly SS.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Yeah bro, wanting a more varied representation of human characteristics in a medium dominated by homogeneous archetypes...shit's fucked up.
truestatic
Member
He doesn't have any trouble recognizing the fact, he just doesn't agree about its significance. The fact that Link has always been male is not due justification, for him, that Link should stay that way.
SkeptiMism
Member
I'm sure you didn't mean it, but just to add to that, it's not at all perverted for a man to want to play as a female. It's completely normal and it doesn't mean the man wants to stare at the butt either.
Link is in many ways a game version of Moorcock's novels' Eternal Champion who gets reincarnated into the same fight to fight the same enemies while everything is slightly different each time. Eternal Champ has been Elric (think Witcher before Geralt was cool), tons of other warriors with magic swords, and also a woman. And this was in the freaking 70s. World didn't end back then either.
Monocle
Member
I don't know all those 10 dollar words you just said but I'm pretty sure that hippie shit is illegal in 49 states son.