AnathemicOne
Banned
I swear its an influx of junior members making ignorant posts like this...
So tell me, what in Link being a female would change Link in some drastic way?
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Aonuma: That was Link in the Wii U Zelda trailer, denies 'female' rumors
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I swear its an influx of junior members making ignorant posts like this...
So tell me, what in Link being a female would change Link in some drastic way?
Oh I meant exactly what you added on. I should have clarified.
I don't like that it's assumed a guy wants to play a female character only for perverted reasons nor do I like that it's assumed it's only men commenting on this.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
MoogleWizard
Member
Edit: Oops, misread. But terribly dumb post nonetheless.
When you grow up you'll understand that you shouldn't give a shit about the gender of your video game avatar.
Then go play a different game. Why force something onto others? Or go complain to Nintendo how Mario should be a girl named Maria.
Vermillion
Banned
To that I'd like to add that many guys on GAF seem to go that route. Look up the topic about guys who play as female characters from a little while ago.
Malcolm9
Member
Some shit changes, but why does Link have to stop being male?
... can this stop? It's a fantasy you play, let the creative people decide what they want as their main character. Or just stick to playing games with character customisation.
Ah, it's the gender of the character being male that is ridiculous, not that there is an eternal curse that causes him to be reborn? Honestly, you're not ridiculing anything ridiculous, you're just showing you can't come up with a cohesive argument.
When has gender ever mattered in any game? The fact because Link is reincarnated every game it means something different? What does gender have to do with Master Chief in Halo? Nothing aside from the fact his name is John and he has a male voice. You can easily make him Jane and change his voice female and the game wouldn't change in any way shape or form correct? The guns will still fire the same, the enemies will still die the same. But that's just it, he's not female. Just like Link isn't. He has been established as a Hylian male cursed to be reincarnated for all-time to fight evil when it rises. He's known as the Hero of Time. Full stop, Just because you want something different is irrelevant and it doesn't make arguments to the contrary ridiculous. Many religions that believe in reincarnation believe the same as well, which is sort of where "Link" is based out of ie. Hindu/Buddhist reincarnation which has been "gendered".
Why is it so hard to accept Link is a male? That's how he was created, how he's been portrayed for nearly 25+ years. His look hasn't really changed either, he looks almost exactly the same. So it's not really a different character, he is an eternal Link, just like Zelda is always eternal herself. Whether it's LoZ, Link's Awakening, Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, he's always been a male Hylian, pointy ears, same look.
I have no qualms with a female playable character, I only have problems with changing an established character. Now also, have you noticed I never once called you ridiculous for wanting gender to be representative? Or that people don't want to play as they are. But this is not that scenario. You are given the character of Link. I can't change him into a non-white guy, no more than he can become a girl. Nor would I want to. Others may feel different sure.
Anyways it's late, I've made my points known. Feel free to disagree.
Or you could you know...go read the many posts pointing out the reason why changing Mario is different from changing Link?
He doesn't have to, but if Nintendo decided to go that route, what's the problem?
truestatic
Member
It sounds like the difference is the consistent identity of the protagonist. Unless the first long run of champions were Elric and then they started mixing it up halfway down the line. The consistent identity of Link is a facet of these games, despite the other similarities they may bare to this series of novels.
Malcolm9
Member
It's just as ignorant pointing the finger at Junior members.
Did you or anyone else see me dispute the fact he's always been male? Did I make a point of Link being a female anywhere? No. I think that Link should be represented as female at least once (though I am an advocate of the character creator) because the game lore allows for multiple incarnations of a hero, giving Nintendo an opportunity to have a female be represented in a strong main franchise and still have it be the same exact character. It would still be Link. No ifs ands or buts. It doesn't suddenly become another character. The lore allows for more flexibility in gender roles.
KojiKnight
Member
But for a game to be a new IP, there generally needs to be enough to differentiate it from other series or else you'll simply get "but this is just Zelda with different characters, so why make it a different series at all?"
When you do so, there tends to be a certain level of bias that gets applied ("If we're appealing to girls with a female lead, we have to make the game easier, we also have to use more pink!" (see Super Princess Peach))
I don't think anyone wants to be pandered to, they just want the option to play as someone they can more easily relate to.
Ah so he was trolling after all.
The way the story works - with multiple links in multiple timelines - could open up a way to have a female Link without destroying anything really. That said I can see why they choose not to and Link has always been a bit feminine so I'm not sure why people expected it to be a girl before that other thing Aonuma said.
To me, Hyrule Warriors link looked more like a girl.
The way the story works - with multiple links in multiple timelines - could open up a way to have a female Link without destroying anything really. That said I can see why they choose not to and Link has always been a bit feminine so I'm not sure why people expected it to be a girl before that other thing Aonuma said.
To me, Hyrule Warriors link looked more like a girl.
Malcolm9
Member
Did I say there was a problem? I'm quite a traditionalist, so in my view I'd prefer to keep the characters in Zelda games the same gender they have always been.
Is there a problem playing as a male Link?
Lucina is just someone I want for Smash and joking about how everyone else jokes about how there's already a pretty blue haired Lord in the game.
I've gone back to just gushing over the visuals of Zelda U since that can't make me sad right?
SkeptiMism
Member
Why would it be forcing anything? Developers are entitled to do what they want obviously but customers are also entitled to criticize what they want.
And for the millionth time, making Mario female isn't the same as making Link female. Link wouldn't even have to change looks and Link is a different reincarnation every time.
Ah sorry, yes indeed I meant that you meant that, and not that you meant that guys who want to play as females are perverted.Oh I meant exactly what you added on. I should have clarified.
I don't like that it's assumed a guy wants to play a female character only for perverted reasons nor do I like that it's assumed it's only men commenting on this.
truestatic
Member
He would be female. That's the entire difference. Unless you think gender is utterly disposable, I feel like you should be able to understand the importance of this difference, even if you don't share the attachment to it.
He wants to shake up Zelda gameplay wise and he did by creating a huge open world and the way you tackle dungeons etc..
But it seems the dev team doesn't want to and they as the creators should've the final say.
Do we know it was terribly delivered? I mean we only read about it right? So for all we know the joke was delivered with the expertise of a top tier comedian but the reporter did a terrible job of reporting on it.
Orniletter
Banned
So it is now a bad thing If Nintendo doesn´t change the main character´s gender of one of their longest running series for no reason at all (Link has been the protagonist for 28 years !)
... and at the same time we ignore that Nintendo had 2 games with female protagonists on the showfloor (Bayonetta 2 and Splatoon).
Seems fair.
Edit: I may have interpreted your comment incorrectly, but I really don´t like this mentality of changing everything up just to appear more inclusive when Nintendo demonstrated a willingness to have more diverse protagonists (with Splatoon for example).
Zeyphersan
Banned
I do think a game where you play as Zelda would be more interesting than a female Link, but I wouldn't say no to a female Link either. It would only be the Ms. Male Character trope if they made Link a girl and then proceeded to do nothing with it, but if they took the opportunity to change other stuff in the game too, and maybe even add to the narrative, I think it'd work very well. Just a drag 'n drop of male Link -> female Link would be disappointing, yes.
However, I want to see the Zelda games expand their narrative anyway. Doing it with a female main character would be a great way to explore "What is a Zelda game?" which Aonuma has stated before he wants to do.
truestatic
Member
I've been whining about the same thing so I absolutely get you,
how cool would it be if she were an alt model for Marth? Even if only by way of Amiibo?
But yeah. That Zelda game. Man it's pretty.
Can you spell it out for me. I'd really appreciate it.
Naturally, I disagree. There is no fundamental reason for Link to always be male. I think the whole "cursed to be reincarnated time and again as the same soul and male body" argument is flimsy and can be easily tossed aside for the sake of some gender equality. This franchise has left the door open to very easily reinterpret Link as female and allow more inclusiveness. Its a strong statement IMO to make such a move. I mean, I can understand if tomorrow we make Mario into Maria for no other reason than just to reestablish the character as a female would be arbitrary and upsetting. But the Legend of Zelda series inherently deals with multiple realities, so we could easily have one star a female link, or allow the option of a female link or character customization with absolutely no impact on the experience.
No, there's not. But there is a problem with being against the idea purely for tradition's sake. Especially since Link is not a single character, he's a dozen different characters across different games and timelines that are all different in various ways. Why can they change his age, hair, face, handedness, and hometown, but changing his gender is off-limits?
Cheap photoshop. Honestly what look like very subtle breasts around the bow strap could probably be modestly accentuated to make a more plausible female Link without modifying anything else.
Can anyone discredit my points? Hey GAF, I know there are implications and conclusions you could jump to based on what it seems like Aonuma's saying here, but he still never says anything concrete. It's more dodging. I'm not lying, check it out.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116137538&postcount=590
I'm mostly just having fun here. also kinda not? lol
Either way, Aonuma never says "'That was Link' in Zelda Wii U trailer and rumours it was a girl 'kind of grew'"
That was put together by MMGN based on conclusions THEY came to.
I'm not really sure why people were so convinced that Link was female. He just looked like Link, only with a different outfit. Anyway, I don't really mind that Nintendo are sticking to the gender of their established character. While a female Link would have been an interesting change in direction, it wouldn't have really felt genuine if they just changed his gender for the sake of it.
SkeptiMism
Member
The creative people should absolutely have the power to decide what they want as their main character, but the issue is that man is almost always the default option. Making a female main character comes as an after thought for most people in the industry. Making people more aware of the issue can slowly change this so that the character might as well female or male just fine.
Another thing is of course that publishers think that games with female protagonists sell less than games with male protagonists. There are some examples of games that are referring to this, but I don't think there's clear evidence of that.
balgajo
Member
But they don't make sense at all. It's a bunch of people telling me why I have to see Mario as a character and not Link.
I think it's a personal matter.
So I don't have the right of being offended if Marvel changes the color of Spider-Man suit?
AnathemicOne
Banned
Regarding Link? Gender is irrelevant. As I've established before in terms of brand regonition in each installment of the franchise the character design for Link has become closer and closer to androgynous hence the speculation/debate in the first place. In terms of game lore, there is no defining rule/plot element that declares Link as a male, in fact the lore will easily support a female iteration.
So, what do we have left with those two aspects out of the way? People "feel" that Link must be male?
I'm actually quite happy about this. It's not that I'm averse to playing female characters. I'll happily play as them, and in some character creation games I'll create a female persona. It's just I see Link as well...Link. Sure there might be some interesting looking fanart of a female Link, but I see Link as a male character and it's part of his dynamic ajd how he relates to other characters.
Saying that though, I'd be up for a playable female in a Zelda game. Just give me Zelda herself or even someone like Midna
Saying that though, I'd be up for a playable female in a Zelda game. Just give me Zelda herself or even someone like Midna
KojiKnight
Member
Oh god... I didn't think of this. We should all be rooting for a male Link. Imagine the headlines as "Female 'Link' in Legend of Zelda is the worst selling of all time in the series!"
Yeah it'll most likely be because of install base, but will the money counters care?
SkeptiMism
Member
I don't think he means only gameplay wise.
But yes, absolutely, the developers should have the final say and they're entitled to do as they please. That doesn't mean customers aren't entitled to state their wishes and criticize if they feel like it.
Aye, as cool as a female Link would be, I do wonder how much of the experience it would actually change.
Having a different established character such as Zelda would at least make the devs think of inventive ways to use her abilities and characteristics. A more magic focused combat system for instance, or a focus on a bow and arrow over a sword. The difference in being born into royalty over a more grounded upbringing. The connection with the Sheikah etc
I could be wrong though, interesting to see how things play out.
Fair enough. I just feel that the consistent qualities of Link don't even include gender. He wears green, has a sword, is young. That's it. The whole thread started since people couldn't even recognize the gender of this androgynous figure.
Some people like tradition, and I just wish Nintendo mixed things up a bit more in this case. It wouldn't work with Mario because he's a manly icon with that moustache of his.
The interviewer must've missed the winking nudge nudge during the whole thing.
Great explanation, summed up my reasoning during this whole debacle.
I'd take an alt at this point, someone said that Sonic's white alt really resembles Silver(it's not much but it's something I can be hopeful about).
And yeah, prettiest game I've seen on Wii U. Phew.
He knows exactly how the fanbase works.
lol
truestatic
Member
Maybe, but lots of people would feel burnt by a spin-off. There may be no perfect solution, but one that opens them up to criticism for the Ms. Male Character may still be the best one. If I remember correctly, Sarkeesian isn't holding tropes like that up as things which should never ever ever be done or doom a game to failure, but merely as cliches, the overwhelming reliance upon which have limited the roles of women in games. Tropes aren't inherently bad after all, they're just oft-used narrative mechanics. I think.
Malcolm9
Member
I think more people would prefer to keep Link male if truth be told. I can't speak on behalf of every gamer but if you put it down to a vote I think a male Link would be the more popular option, purely because he's been male throughout the history of the series.
It's not our problem if you're failing to see the difference. It's been said over and over that Mario isn't meant to be some different character throughout each game. He's always been married to Peach, had a brother Luigi and is a known character. Mario's design also stays the same each game. The series has his name in.
Link is different in each game. It's not the same character. Even the design's change throughout each one. The creators have also said he is a self insert for players. The series is called Legend of Zelda not Legend Of Link.
Your last point is silly because them changing the color of his suit doesn't matter.
Man...
This is going too far.
As a die hard fan of Zelda, and a woman of color. I'd very much like you to stop putting down the series to promote gender/racial equality.