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[Nintentoast]

What do you call Zelda sales going so cold that Nintendo of America ordered that Aonuma's Wind Waker sequel be scrapped, then getting set on fire with Twilight Princess, then going cold again when the Twilight Princess approach was abandoned?

If the one time Eiji Aonuma was shot down was the one time the series actually showed any growth whatsoever since Wind Waker, what does that tell you about Aonuma's approach to Zelda?

Two things about Twilight Princess:

1.) It launched on Nintendo's most successful console ever
2.) Most Zelda fans agree that Twilight Princess's visuals have aged horribly and that The Wind Waker was overall a better game

What this tells me about Aonuma's approach to Zelda is that he isn't willing to sacrifice his artistic vision, the same vision that brought us the vibrant Wind Waker which still holds up today, for sales when it's not clear whether that would even translate to Twilight Princess-like results (in ratio to Wii U, of course).

Moreover, what does the fact that even other games published by Nintendo that feature Zelda characters tend to lean on Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess as the "correct" art style to represent the series? Even when Smash Bros. includes non-OoT/TP content (like Toon Link, or stages from Toon Link games), it's always as an alternative to the OoT/TP stuff. Nintendo even went as far to show off Twilight Princess content in HD when they introduced their new console.

It's plain and obvious that Nintendo knows that fans identify more with OoT/TP than the games over which Aonuma exercised more of his own discretion. Why else would they use OoT/TP so much in anything that is not an actual Zelda game?

I do not decide any of this. I do not decide which Zelda games are more popular. I do not decide which brand image Nintendo chooses to use when it represents the series outside of the actual games. And I do not decide what kinds of games Eiji Aonuma chooses to make. I can only observe what is actually happening.

I'm sorry, but this just reads as a conspiracy theory.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

What do you call Zelda sales going so cold that Nintendo of America ordered that Aonuma's Wind Waker sequel be scrapped, then getting set on fire with Twilight Princess, then going cold again when the Twilight Princess approach was abandoned?

If the one time Eiji Aonuma was shot down was the one time the series actually showed any growth whatsoever since Wind Waker, what does that tell you about Aonuma's approach to Zelda?

I like how instead of Eiji Aonuma deciding to listen to feedback from NoA while conceptualizing TP, you've invented this imaginary scenario in which NoA ORDERED Aonuma to cancel Wind Waker 2 and change the game and he was all owned and stupid and destroyed

 

[Farmboy]

2.) Most Zelda fans agree that Twilight Princess's visuals have aged horribly and that The Wind Waker was overall a better game

Actually, I think the consensus is that Wind Waker looks better (esp. today), but that TP is the better game overall, in terms of content, items and especially dungeons.

Of course, this is Zelda. So nearly every installment has its vocal fans and detractors. Certainly, WW is mentioned often as a favorite (which, as much as I like it, is baffling to me as someone who feels it looks incredible but is in most ways the weakest 3D Zelda of them all). But that's all the more reason to be careful making statements about what 'most Zelda fans agree [on]'.

 

[Riki]

I like how instead of Eiji Aonuma deciding to listen to feedback from NoA while conceptualizing TP, you've invented this imaginary scenario in which NoA ORDERED Aonuma to cancel Wind Waker 2 and change the game and he was all owned and stupid and destroyed

I also have a serious issue with the term "going cold" here to refer to a series that still sells 4+ million...

 

[Nintentoast]

Actually, I think the consensus is that Wind Waker looks better (esp. today), but that TP is the better game overall, in terms of content, items and especially dungeons.

Of course, this is Zelda. So nearly every installment has its vocal fans and detractors. Certainly, WW is mentioned often as a favorite (which, as much as I like it, is baffling to me as someone who feels it looks incredible but is in most ways the weakest 3D Zelda of them all). But that's all the more reason to be careful making statements about what 'most Zelda fans agree [on]'.

Exactly, which is why I think Twilight Princess's success was a byproduct of the Wii's success. Sure, the goodwill was with Twilight Princess's art style following The Wind Waker, and assuredly led to more sales, but today, when a majority of fans love TWW over TP, would there be a big enough benefit in sales of Zelda Wii U to justify giving up artistic vision?

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I like how instead of Eiji Aonuma deciding to listen to feedback from NoA while conceptualizing TP, you've invented this imaginary scenario in which NoA ORDERED Aonuma to cancel Wind Waker 2 and change the game and he was all owned and stupid and destroyed

Lmao
Seriously LegendofLex, you're flyin' right into hyperbole conspiracy theory land with all of this pre-Aonuma vs post-Aonuma stuff.
It's fine if you don't like his influence, but what is the point in arguing for something that doesn't exist???

 

[Marlowe89]

Actually, I think the consensus is that Wind Waker looks better (esp. today), but that TP is the better game overall, in terms of content, items and especially dungeons.

I've seen the 'content' aspect disputed several times and I don't think anyone's come to what could remotely be deemed as a "consensus" on that. If anything, based on personal playthroughs and walkthrough viewings, I would argue that Wind Waker generally has much more overworld content than TP and that it also takes much longer to 100% overall. I personally think TWW is a better game simply for what it presents to the player in terms of scale, exploration and content.

Moreover, what does the fact that even other games published by Nintendo that feature Zelda characters tend to lean on Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess as the "correct" art style to represent the series? Even when Smash Bros. includes non-OoT/TP content (like Toon Link, or stages from Toon Link games), it's always as an alternative to the OoT/TP stuff. Nintendo even went as far to show off Twilight Princess content in HD when they introduced their new console.

So Toon Link is simply an alternative even though he was never actually represented as such and in fact replaced the previous child Link from Melee? Nintendo shows off a "Twilight Princess" demo for Wii U even though the first Zelda game for the console was an updated version of Wind Waker? What about the fact that several games in the franchise star Toon Link?

I don't think your evidence is particularly well thought-out.

 

[maxcriden]

I've seen the 'content' aspect disputed several times and I don't think anyone's come to what could remotely be deemed as a "consensus" on that. If anything, based on personal playthroughs and walkthrough viewings, I would argue that Wind Waker generally has much more overworld content than TP and that it also takes much longer to 100% overall. I personally think TWW is a better game simply for what it presents to the player in terms of scale, exploration and content.

FWIW, although TWW might take longer to 100% and have more overworld content, I think there's little question that TP offers much, much more in the way of main game content (i.e. dungeons and the like).

 

[Marlowe89]

FWIW, although TWW might take longer to 100% and have more overworld content, I think there's little question that TP offers much, much more in the way of main game content (i.e. dungeons and the like).

I was under the impression that he was referring to side content but I do agree with you. There's not much doubt that TP addressed many of TWW's shortcomings, I just don't personally feel like it bothered to expand much on its strengths and even felt like a step back in some regards. To me, it's just a matter of personal preference. Wind Waker vs. Twilight Princess debates have seemingly occurred almost as often as Ocarina of Time vs. Majora's Mask ones, and it seems to be split pretty evenly from what I've observed (or maybe one side is simply more vocal than the other - you never can tell with the Zelda fanbase).

 

[bomma_man]

Thank god animu-style fantasy is here to save the day.

If animu = ghibli then, well, yeah, pretty much

 

[BertramCooper]

I do not decide any of this. I do not decide which Zelda games are more popular. I do not decide which brand image Nintendo chooses to use when it represents the series outside of the actual games. And I do not decide what kinds of games Eiji Aonuma chooses to make. I can only observe what is actually happening.

You can also make shit up.

Which is what you're doing.

 

[maxcriden]

I was under the impression that he was referring to side content but I do agree with you. There's not much doubt that TP addressed many of TWW's shortcomings, I just don't personally feel like it bothered to expand much on its strengths and even felt like a step back in some regards. To me, it's just a matter of personal preference. Wind Waker vs. Twilight Princess debates have seemingly occurred almost as often as Ocarina of Time vs. Majora's Mask ones, and it seems to be split pretty evenly from what I've observed (or maybe one side is simply more vocal than the other - you never can tell with the Zelda fanbase).

Absolutely! Both games have their merits but neither is really my favorite Zelda by any means. I prefer the artstyle of Wind Waker and it's so ridiculously charming that it's a delight just to play. I think TP probably has better dungeons. I think Majora's Mask is probably my favorite overall 3D Zelda, but OoT is superb as well and the two are so different it's hard to compare them. Both are amazing. OoT surely has much more in the way of dungeon content and Majora's Mask is just brimming with side content the likes of which we almost never see in games. It's surprisingly tough to compare them.

 

[ozfunghi]

Are people still debating that "realistic zelda" is the "correct" artstyle?

Spoiler

Go play a Link to the Past!

 

[Spieler Eins]

2.) Most Zelda fans agree that Twilight Princess's visuals have aged horribly and that The Wind Waker was overall a better game

Absolutely false. Sure, the number of people growing nostalgia for that pos WW is increasing and there is some kind of obligation now to defend it, since its port is one of very few WiiU games out there, but the legitimately awful design decisions and missing second half are still as real as back in the day, which anyone can recognize objectively - including Aonuma. While ,,most people'' at least agree that TP has the best dungeon designs in the series at the very least (not to mention that it's a finished game), WW offers some of the worst gameplay in the entire series, with almost no redeeming qualities.

Also, TP looks great. Tons of details everywhere and visually far more varied than WW ever was.

 

[Nickle]

2.) Most Zelda fans agree that Twilight Princess's visuals have aged horribly and that The Wind Waker was overall a better game

What this tells me about Aonuma's approach to Zelda is that he isn't willing to sacrifice his artistic vision, the same vision that brought us the vibrant Wind Waker which still holds up today, for sales when it's not clear whether that would even translate to Twilight Princess-like results (in ratio to Wii U, of course).

Go and play the Wind Waker right now. You'll see that it is much blurrier and duller then you remember. You are so used to seeing WWHD or 1080p screenshots that you think the game looks better then it actually does. I would say that WW has aged just as well as Twilight Princess has.

Edit: ignore the guy above.

 

[Proven]

Twilight's visuals have aged, but I wouldn't say they aged horribly. It's Ocarina of Time I feel is in that boat; Twilight hit the point where it wouldn't look great next to higher fidelity games but would still look decent.

And more fans think Wind Waker was the better game? Really? That's news to me, but should the series only sell to the current fans?

 

[ozfunghi]

And more fans think Wind Waker was the better game? Really? That's news to me, but should the series only sell to the current fans?

I sure did. And i'm quite sure the art-style had a big impact. WW could "capture" me in ways that OOT, or TP never could. It's emotionally so much richer, and i think that made the difference. The colourful world, the expressions... also the humor clicks much better with the art-style.

 

[Heroman]

Twilight princess is the better game when compared to wind waker.

 

[EhoaVash]

I sure did. And i'm quite sure the art-style had a big impact. WW could "capture" me in ways that OOT, or TP never could. It's emotionally so much richer, and i think that made the difference. The colourful world, the expressions... also the humor clicks much better with the art-style.

so you perfer style over substance?

wind waker easily is the worst 3d zelda in terms of dungeon designs imo. combat was also meh. effing quick time thing.

 

[Ushojax]

Robots would be fine, but Zelda honestly needs to nail the classic Zelda/medieval/fantasy feel first. Then, if they have time and the appropriate setting and lore in place, they can add in this "ancient automaton" stuff.

There have been weird robots in Zelda for years. Beamos were in OOT.

 

[ozfunghi]

so you perfer style over substance?

wind waker easily is the worst 3d zelda in terms of dungeon designs imo. combat was also meh. effing quick time thing.

Quick Time?

No, i don't prefer style over substance. Maybe try to read what i wrote. The artstyle was just much more suited for me, to emotionally connect to the game. I'm not talking about "oooh" and "aaaah".

 

[ugoo18]

Two things about Twilight Princess:

1.) It launched on Nintendo's most successful console ever
2.) Most Zelda fans agree that Twilight Princess's visuals have aged horribly and that The Wind Waker was overall a better game

What this tells me about Aonuma's approach to Zelda is that he isn't willing to sacrifice his artistic vision, the same vision that brought us the vibrant Wind Waker which still holds up today

Still holds up today?

Are we remembering the same WW?

It might not be TP levels of messy but it certainly doesn't hold up today by any stretch of the imagination.

WW

WW Dolphin

WWHD

 

[Majukun]

so you perfer style over substance?

wind waker easily is the worst 3d zelda in terms of dungeon designs imo. combat was also meh. effing quick time thing.

i agree

it was also too damn easy..

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

so you perfer style over substance?

wind waker easily is the worst 3d zelda in terms of dungeon designs imo. combat was also meh. effing quick time thing.

It was the worst in terms of everything except graphics. I wouldn't have had a problem with the sailing if the side content on the islands was interesting, but it wasn't, at all.

 

[Nintentoast]

Absolutely false. Sure, the number of people growing nostalgia for that pos WW is increasing and there is some kind of obligation now to defend it, since its port is one of very few WiiU games out there, but the legitimately awful design decisions and missing second half are still as real as back in the day, which anyone can recognize objectively - including Aonuma. While ,,most people'' at least agree that TP has the best dungeon designs in the series at the very least (not to mention that it's a finished game), WW offers some of the worst gameplay in the entire series, with almost no redeeming qualities.

Also, TP looks great. Tons of details everywhere and visually far more varied than WW ever was.

The nostalgia for The Wind Waker was there way before the Wii U release. And giving it more credit because it is on Wii U? Lol okay...

I've been around a Zelda forum a day or two in my life, and I know which game is more heavily favored by fans. For shits and giggles I typed into Google "Which is better Wind Waker or Twilight Princess?" You'll see that this is the first result: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums...a/139266-wind-waker-vs-twilight-princess.html 58% preferred Wind Waker, 35% preferred Twilight Princess, and 7% were unsure. Also, this was from 2012, so before The Wind Waker HD was even announced.

There, at Zelda Universe, you have a very specialized audience who, while not representative of the entire fanbase, is certainly indicative of it. And really, why is it so hard to believe that most fans prefer Wind Waker? Heck, I prefer Twilight Princess myself, but the majority of fans I talk to are more fond of TWW, citing TP as "an Ocarina of Time rehash."

Worst gameplay in the entire series? How so? The musical notes your sword made was a simple yet great addition and it introduced fresh mechanics like the parry system in which you could roll around or jump over an enemy. So I don't know what you're talking about. But if you'd rather waggle to win, that's your prerogative.

Go and play the Wind Waker right now. You'll see that it is much blurrier and duller then you remember. You are so used to seeing WWHD or 1080p screenshots that you think the game looks better then it actually does. I would say that WW has aged just as well as Twilight Princess has.

I'm not talking about resolution or anything - they both look like mid-2000's games. What I'm saying is that from an artsyle perspective, The Wind Waker (2002 version, in all its glory) holds up better. It's no secret that when you make a gritty, realistic looking game like Twilight Princess, it's going to get shat on in a few years. Ask people which game holds up better, and I guarantee you most will say Wind Waker.

To put this all back into perspective... I think it is good that Aonuma is taking a more artistic route with Zelda Wii U, as I believe it will hold up longer. I don't believe it is smart to pursue a realistic look, as stylized as it might be, when Nintendo's competitors will be doing that on much more powerful hardware.

 

[maxcriden]

Quick Time?

I think he means the timed button presses for more powerful attacks.

Still holds up today?

Are we remembering the same WW?

It might not be TP levels of messy but it certainly doesn't hold up today by any stretch of the imagination.

No way WW looked that bad on an actual TV playing it. (Did it?!)

Worst gameplay in the entire series? How so? The musical notes your sword made was a simple yet great addition and it introduced fresh mechanics like the parry system in which you could roll around or jump over an enemy. So I don't know what you're talking about. But if you'd rather waggle to win, that's your prerogative.

FWIW, I played TP in its GCN form and there was no motion control involved (and the maps were thankfully not mirrored).

 

[Nickle]

I'm not talking about resolution or anything - they both look like mid-2000's games. What I'm saying is that from an artsyle perspective, The Wind Waker (2002 version, in all its glory) holds up better. It's no secret that when you make a gritty, realistic looking game like Twilight Princess, it's going to get shat on in a few years. Ask people which game holds up better, and I guarantee you most will say Wind Waker.

I think that Twilight Princess looks better in motion, while WW looks much blurrier (although still good) in motion. I remember playing WW a few years ago and being shocked at how blurry it was, and that's why I say that it hasn't aged as well as everyone thinks.

 

[ugoo18]

I think he means the timed button presses for more powerful attacks.



No way WW looked that bad on an actual TV playing it. (Did it?!)

It did, the blurriness can be pretty jarring after not playing it for awhile. It's artstyle allowed it to not look as muddy as TP does sometimes but it most definitely did not hold up as well as people remember.

 

[veritassin]

so you perfer style over substance?

wind waker easily is the worst 3d zelda in terms of dungeon designs imo. combat was also meh. effing quick time thing.

I'm sorry but zelda dungeons across all of the 3d zeldas are fundamentally the same. Wind waker's are short but that's about it.

 

[Kissenkopf]

I'm sorry but zelda dungeons across all of the 3d zeldas are fundamentally the same. Wind waker's are short but that's about it.

You can say the same about the 2D Zelda dungeons.btw the dungeons from Skyward Sword feel very different from the Majoras Mask one...but I know opinions...

 

[Kai Dracon]

It seems some people assume that sales = opinions. If one game sells even slightly more than another that can be taken that everyone who played the higher selling game ended up preferring it to the lower selling game. So the classic argument is the vast majority of Zelda fans must, oh, prefer TP to WW because TP managed the incredible feat of selling a couple million more on a console with a userbase five times larger than the GC.

In reality people are perfectly free to decide they didn't like the game they bought. I'm not surprised some fan polls would place WW over TP. I have always listened to plenty of Zelda fans say they ended up liking WW a lot. It's not a rare opinion.

It's also not a rare opinion to hear it's the worst Zelda ever, but that's the trick. If it's confirmation bias you seek, Zelda is your go-to fandom. Enough time has passed that even cliche untouchable games like Ocarina of Time aren't safe. I think at most, only the original LoZ doesn't get a heap of hate. But most negative opinions I've heard don't frame it as the worst game ever that destroyed the series. Just as unplayable through no fault of its own, thanks to being a crude, early NES game.

 

[rex]

I don't know why there's always so much resistance to the idea that OOT/TP are the best selling style of Zelda games. At least we have evidence that that's the case, even if it's not conclusive.

On the other hand, you have people still operating under the assumption that Nintendo can make 3D Mario as popular as 2D Mario, even though there's zero evidence of that. In fact, with 3D Land set to do no better than SMG, and maybe barely better than SM64, the evidence suggests that 3D Mario can't be as successful.

Of course, it's looking more and more likely that 2D Mario's vaunted 30 million sales ceiling is nothing but a distant memory too. The casual friendly audience on Wii and DS ate that stuff up, but now they're gone, and with them 2D Mario's incredible success.

And yet, something that we actually do have evidence for is also seemingly beyond the pale, which is suggesting OOT/TP might just be the most popular.

And those games' similarities don't stop with the art style. They both heavily or exclusively feature adult Link, in contradiction to MM and WW. They don't feature sailing, or mask collection, or motion controls. They don't rock the boat in terms of major gameplay changes like the other entries did. It's just you, and your horse, and about 9 dungeons. Maybe people don't want any more than that.

Of course, OOT and TP are just flat out well designed games, which doesn't hurt the sales either, and that has nothing to do with the artstyle. I just find it odd that you can't even suggest a connection between OOT and TP's similarity and their success. The games are the best sellers after all. They did it on two consoles that couldn't have been more different sales wise. One was a launch title, the other came out over 24 months from launch. We're sitting at coincidence right now. Maybe Nintendo should figure out if it's actually a trend and embrace that style for a change.

 

[Marlowe89]

It was the worst in terms of everything except graphics. I wouldn't have had a problem with the sailing if the side content on the islands was interesting, but it wasn't, at all.

From treasure charts and their respective chests to nine types of spoils - some of which led to pretty cool prizes like the Hero's Charm - to the figurine collection and hidden grottos that were a lot more complex than TP's in addition to plenty of NPC-oriented sidequests, I found Wind Waker's side content to be far more varied and interesting than that of Twilight Princess (a game I've just recently started playing again), which almost completely lacked any NPC sidequesting and offered very little in the way of things to actually do outside of the main quest besides collecting bugs, poes, and fish. It had minigames, but so did Wind Waker.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that WW beats out TP in more than just aesthetics, and I think a lot of people view the game with a pretty severe "style over substance" bias when it's obvious that these people aren't analyzing the actual content in the game at all.

wind waker easily is the worst 3d zelda in terms of dungeon designs imo.

I would argue that Majora's Mask holds that title (with the exception of Stone Temple Tower, but even that wasn't a perfect dungeon). Most of WW's dungeons contained some pretty interesting and unique mechanics for its time, although subsequent titles have definitely improved upon that specific aspect. Skyward Sword probably has my favorite dungeons in the series.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

^^^^
I definitely feel like Majora Mask has some of the weakest dungeon design in the series' history (sans Ikana Castle and the Stone Tower Temple); it doesn't help that there were only four of them.
The most interesting thing about the game (imo) is the NPC-interaction, story-telling, and atmosphere; the traditional gameplay segments weren't anything to write home about and they could have been much more compelling.

I'm sorry but zelda dungeons across all of the 3d zeldas are fundamentally the same. Wind waker's are short but that's about it.

Sounds like you're not paying any sort attention to the action-platforming design (obstacles), puzzle design, or combat-design(encounters, enemy design, etc.) that is found in the series' dungeons.
There is a reason why a lot of gamers complain about WW's dungeon difficulty and design; most of it's dungeons are simple "Inside The Great Deku Tree"-caliber stuff (Which I find fun, but not incredibly rewarding or interesting)
None of the dungeon design in Wind Waker ever touches the brilliance that's found in the Forest Temple, Fire Temple, or Shadow Temple of OoT.; it also doesn't help the game's case that the dungeon design found in TP and SS completely smokes OoT's.

 

[Volotaire]

I've got a bit further in Zelda Wind Waker HD (first time playing). Wow. Link's expressions, his character, the other characters, the illusion of freedom, the scattered islands and rafts to discover. This is what I wanted out of TP (and now Zelda U). I hope that Zelda U can emulate the characterisation that they weaved throughout the Wind Waker's characters. SS did an OK job at emulating that, but everytime I'm moving Link in WW, everytime he jumps or gets tired, you can see it through the facial expressions. Incredible. And I've only finished the first dungeon.

 

[JDSN]

God damn it.

 

[Lumyst]

I've got a bit further in Zelda Wind Waker HD (first time playing).

I just got through Wind Waker HD a few weeks ago (hadn't played WW since 10 years) and played through OoT 3D and am now half way through the NES Legend of Zelda. I love WW the most because the world is so charming, and gameplay wise I'm liking the NES game, I hadn't known that the classic gameplay was so different from the OoT inspired gameplay, and am liking how the NES game throws the player into the game and lets him or her discover things such as items and upgrades at their own pace (not to mention that the rupees actually have a use). Then there's that feeling of seeing an unreachable place and after obtaining an item, realizing that you can finally go back to that place you saw before and reach it. So I ended up being more hyped about the WiiU game because if its world is as charming as WW's and if it is inspired by the feeling of open-ended discovery of the NES game, then it'll hit the right notes with me

 

[-Horizon-]

If anyone has 44 minutes to spare, here's a new GameXplain discussion video on Zelda U.
I'm always up for more talk on Zelda U.

 

[Volotaire]

If anyone has 44 minutes to spare, here's a new GameXplain discussion video on Zelda U.
I'm always up for more talk on Zelda U.

Mother of... Thanks!

EDIT: Zeldainformer... Well it should be good for discussion at least.

 

[Woffls]

If anyone has 44 minutes to spare, here's a new GameXplain discussion video on Zelda U.
I'm always up for more talk on Zelda U.

Perfect. I needed something exactly like this to make my current MGS4 run a bit more enjoyable!

 

[Brqan]

If anyone has 44 minutes to spare, here's a new GameXplain discussion video on Zelda U.
I'm always up for more talk on Zelda U.

Andre back huh hmmm...........

 

[Volotaire]

The video, and me currently playing Wind Waker at the moment, has reminded me of the unused mechanic from WW in the early stages of Link ageing throughout the game. Playing through WW, I for one would welcome a child Link back to a home console Zelda. The mechanic could could compromise both camps but also provide a new twist on 'two Links' or 'two worlds' in a Zelda game.

 

[BY2K]

How can you make a 44 Minutes discussion on 1 minute of footage...

 

[brandonh83]

How can you make a 44 Minutes discussion on 1 minute of footage...

I guess in the same way NeoGAF can have a 44 page thread about textures.

 

[Peléo]

TP also had Cave of Ordeals. I wish more Zelda games had it, is a nice way to explore combat in the game without changing the explore/combat/puzzle balance of the main quest. Maybe even with a random factor.

I think ALBW had something similar, but not nearly as developed.

 

[maxcriden]

The video, and me currently playing Wind Waker at the moment, has reminded me of the unused mechanic from WW in the early stages of Link ageing throughout the game. Playing through WW, I for one would welcome a child Link back to a home console Zelda. The mechanic could could compromise both camps but also provide a new twist on 'two Links' or 'two worlds' in a Zelda game.

Ooh, I never heard about that mechanic. Link? I'd love to see Link age throughout the game from a child to a teen. I always preferred Child Link/Toon Link, anyway.

 

[-Horizon-]

How can you make a 44 Minutes discussion on 1 minute of footage...

The same way we all made a 5000+ post thread

 

[Volotaire]

TP also had Cave of Ordeals. I wish more Zelda games had it, is a nice way to explore combat in the game without changing the explore/combat/puzzle balance of the main quest. Maybe even with a random factor.

I think ALBW had something similar, but not nearly as developed.

Perhaps one way of solving the apparent ALBW issue (I haven't played it yet) is too somehow program in harder enemies after a set number of dungeons have been defeated, no matter what dungeon you have defeated or in what order. Although the puzzles couldn't be changed due to the difficulty of applying a procedurally generated algorithm to this type of game, II think the changing the enemy difficulty could definitely be a half solution.

 

[Asbear]

Lol, someone says TP looks better in motion than WW. The hell it doesn't. TP has an amazing artstyle that wasn't truly conveyed by the in-engine graphics IMHO, and was massively held back by being designed for SD resolution. Even in SD the textures are horrible and the environment seems oversized and barren. Wind Waker has some dullness in traveling long distances with very little geomitry along the way, but the game looks simple and it worked so much better in SD than TP did.

When I move around in TP on my Gamecube or on my Wii, I can only notice how grainy and compressed everything looks. I can't single out a lot of details. The artstyle of WW was perfectly conveyed with the game's graphics on the other hand. The water looks super clean, but it looks alive, and in general a lot of things in WW just looks like a living cartoon, which makes it very pleasant to look at.

 

[Mango The Magician]

new GameXplain discussion video on Zelda U.

Kinda hard to watch them talk about TP's items only really serving as "Keys" whilst ignoring all the instances in which you can use them to explore the secrets in the overworld to unlock Pieces of Heart, Poe Souls, and Golden Bugs; I know that that's not exactly a lot of interesting things to find, but I fail to see how it's so different from bombing a random rock in the OG Zelda to find...a piece of heart. Overall though it was pretty good discussion, and I'm glad they share the same fears that certain things might suffer because of the non-linearity, I hope Aonuma and the Zelda Team are aware of the potential problems as well.