Jawmuncher
Member
Uprising needs a WiiU update with better controls. Even though I didn't mind it.
Sakurai cut Lucas because of that one girl who challenged him on that Japanese variety show, and he cut Ice Climbers because he's still salty the Inuits defected from Asia in 1000 CE.Well, I'm convinced. Sakurai cut veterans out of spite, because otherwise he would have just hit the "Port Up" button.
That's the thing. They don't just up-rez the model. They build them from scratch. For example, here's Brawl Mario. And here's SSBF3DSWiiU Mario. (I still hate that title a lot.)Really? How do you know that?
Veterans seem like they'd be a lot less work. The mesh already exists, uprez-ing existing 3D models is easier than making new ones from scratch, and frankly, it's pretty likely they already have a hi-res mesh that they simplified for use in Brawl. The rigging's already done, the UV mapping for textures is already done, a basic texture is already done, a butt-ton of animations are already done (simple things that don't need to be changed like walking, turning, idling, jumping, falling, et cetera. Decisions about what moves the character will have are already made and only need to be updated and tweaked, rather than created from scratch. VO is mostly done... Is that enough? Should I keep going?
Fixed it for you.Nothing important other than rumor with leaker losing his job and being sued.
Well, I'm convinced. Sakurai cut veterans out of spite, because otherwise he would have just hit the "Port Up" button.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. They basically build each character from smash. I mean scratch. Newcomers don't take much more work than veterans.
Either planned to be cut at the beginning, or cut once development started and they realized that every veteran required X amount of work to finish, and had to cut them there.
Like, making up numbers here, each veteran was allocated 100 man-hours to bring into smash 4, so to bring everyone back, it would be 3900 man hours.
Situation A: They only had money for 3300 man hours, so they had to make some cuts, which included Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, Lucas, Ice Climbers, and Wolf.
Situation B: They estimated and allocated 100 man hours per veteran, but in reality, it took 115 man hours per veteran. This meant they could only bring over about 34 veterans, which meant that Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, Lucas, Ice Climbers, and Wolf had to be cut.
Situation C: A combination of A and B (some cut initially, more cut later due to time restraints).
Once again, all made up in my head, no idea if true, numbers are not real, they may all be coming back, etc.
Yeah, that always blows my mind.Maybe Sakurai realised "spite" is quite literally what half the Smash audience wants?
Reading some of the reactions to newcomers it always boggles my mind to see people outright say they'd be happy to see a character gone in exchange for no additional content.
Eh, give Sakurai the benefit of the doubt. We don't know the ins and outs of what this game's development involves. And the last thing I'd accuse Sakurai of is laziness. Even if a clone here or a cut there may seem that way, in a vacuum, you have to consider the sheer magnitude of the project and how content-packed he makes these games, let alone the need to balance them and meet a deadline critical to the company.We've seen Lucina reusing an animation from Brawl Marth. Yeah, it's nice that veterans are getting some new effects and such, but it seems silly to outright remove characters in a game that doesn't even seem to be adding any new mechanics.
Brawl at least had stuff like swimming, stairs and Final Smashs that would require additions to make Melee characters compatible with it. So far, this game doesn't seem to have anything added to the core gameplay at all.
Remember: 5 more characters.Yeah, obviously there's an answer, I just can't help think it's not that they couldn't bring in Lucas, Ice Climbers, Wolf, et cetera, but that they didn't want to. Whether they're too clone-y or don't have enough appeal, whatever. Just bummed :\
Well, I'm convinced. Sakurai cut veterans out of spite, because otherwise he would have just hit the "Port Up" button.
It's cool, mine goes on the fritz at times too. It's just the ongoing joke really regarding everyone downplaying the skill and care that goes into games like this. Like the people who say making a platformer is inherently easier than making any kind of game. You know, all you have to do is ploop some blocks onto the screen, get some guy to jump on them...beep boop beep...instant platformer!
I'm happy for Dark Pit, myself.Dark Pit 2014 is Wolfgate 2008 all over again.
Maybe Sakurai realised "spite" is quite literally what half the Smash audience wants?
Reading some of the reactions to newcomers it always boggles my mind to see people outright say they'd be happy to see a character gone in exchange for no additional content.
That's the thing. They don't just up-rez the model. They build them from scratch. For example, here's Brawl Mario. And here's SSBF3DSWiiU Mario. (I still hate that title a lot.)
Fixed it for you.
Fixed it for you.
I just wanted the cat from the Wii's News Channel...
He envied the bounteous wind in Hyrule, for the wind brought only destruction to his valley. Unfortunately, that jealousy turned to a lust for power.
On an interesting note, he doesn't seem to actually be willing to kill Link and Zelda in the final battle; notice how he only knocks Zelda out when he attacks her. It seems like he just wanted to die fighting.
It's related to the Photo Channel cat
Same man! He's my ultimate "never knew I wanted, but now need him" character. His play style looks so sick!Guys, I am SO FREAKING EXCITED for Bowser Jr., a sentence I never thought I'd string together, but seeing what Sakurai is doing here, I'm so stoked. :-D
And while I'm inclined to believe the Koopalings rumor is true (all of the other details in that rumor have been consistent with the leak, and we've seen a trophy of Larry in the Clown Car, something he's never been shown in by himself), I really want it to be fully confirmed before this becomes, possibly, one of my favorite characters EVER.
I imagine Sakurai will show Bowser Jr. and all seven Koopalings in the trailer. That'll be one hell of a hype infusion. BRING IT.
I'll just put an old post of mine from the DK: TF thread here:
So you know how much I concur!
Really? How do you know that?
Veterans seem like they'd be a lot less work. The mesh already exists, uprez-ing existing 3D models is easier than making new ones from scratch, and frankly, it's pretty likely they already have a hi-res mesh that they simplified for use in Brawl. The rigging's already done, the UV mapping for textures is already done, a basic texture is already done, a butt-ton of animations are already done (simple things that don't need to be changed like walking, turning, idling, jumping, falling, et cetera. Decisions about what moves the character will have are already made and only need to be updated and tweaked, rather than created from scratch. VO is mostly done... Is that enough? Should I keep going?
Since we were talking about how Metroid Prime's core form would work as a playable character earlier, I made a moveset. I thought giving her the phazon hyper beam makes sense because it's associated with the character, even if it's Samus who used it. The way I see Prime's character working is that she would be a zoner, using phazon pools, shockwaves, and phazon beams to keep foes at tentacle's reach. The final smash was pretty obvious.
The WW Ganondorf is the same adult timeline Ganondorf that is defeated and sealed away by Link at the end of OoT. After he's sealed away, he breaks free and takes over, causing Hyrule to flood. He became Ganon for that final battle. WW just gives some motivation for why he turned evil in the first place: Gerudo Desert is a shitty place to live.Oh, right. "I coveted that wind," and all that. You know, it's interesting he wasn't willing to kill Link and Zelda considering the very same Ganondorf had been willing to do so in--wait, I'm confusing myself. I was going to say he was willing to do so, as Ganon, in OoT's future Link timeline(s), but if I understand correctly, this is actually not the same person. I mean, it's the same person, but different choices and circumstances were made in his life. He was never defeated by Link. He tried to kidnap Zelda but never actually tried to kill Link or Zelda. And never became Ganon. Interesting. I wonder if I have this right at all.
Stupid imgur not working at work
I'll check it out later, thank you!
Since we were talking about how Metroid Prime's core form would work as a playable character earlier, I made a moveset. I thought giving her the phazon hyper beam makes sense because it's associated with the character, even if it's Samus who used it. The way I see Prime's character working is that she would be a zoner, using phazon pools, shockwaves, and phazon beams to keep foes at tentacle's reach. The final smash was pretty obvious.
Guys, I am SO FREAKING EXCITED for Bowser Jr., a sentence I never thought I'd string together, but seeing what Sakurai is doing here, I'm so stoked. :-D
And while I'm inclined to believe the Koopalings rumor is true (all of the other details in that rumor have been consistent with the leak, and we've seen a trophy of Larry in the Clown Car, something he's never been shown in by himself), I really want it to be fully confirmed before this becomes, possibly, one of my favorite characters EVER.
I imagine Sakurai will show Bowser Jr. and all seven Koopalings in the trailer. That'll be one hell of a hype infusion. BRING IT.
Since we were talking about how Metroid Prime's core form would work as a playable character earlier, I made a moveset. I thought giving her the phazon hyper beam makes sense because it's associated with the character, even if it's Samus who used it. The way I see Prime's character working is that she would be a zoner, using phazon pools, shockwaves, and phazon beams to keep foes at tentacle's reach. The final smash was pretty obvious.
Guys, I am SO FREAKING EXCITED for Bowser Jr., a sentence I never thought I'd string together, but seeing what Sakurai is doing here, I'm so stoked. :-D
And while I'm inclined to believe the Koopalings rumor is true (all of the other details in that rumor have been consistent with the leak, and we've seen a trophy of Larry in the Clown Car, something he's never been shown in by himself), I really want it to be fully confirmed before this becomes, possibly, one of my favorite characters EVER.
I imagine Sakurai will show Bowser Jr. and all seven Koopalings in the trailer. That'll be one hell of a hype infusion. BRING IT.
I know it's not all directed at me, but I'd like to clarify my position...
I don't think there's a Port Up button, I don't think Sakurai's lazy or spiteful.
My only statements have been :
I wish Lucas was in the game.
It's significantly less work to hang on to existing characters than to create new ones.
As an aside - I think it's sad when any character gets cut. The game would be more fun if MewTwo and Pichu and everyone else were back.
Silly "Watchmen" analogy coming in, don't highlight if you haven't read the book or seen the movie:
Sakurai is Ozymandias. Remember the interview where Sakurai said that character selection makes him sick with anxiety, since it's so stressful cutting characters people love? Well, I picture Sakurai having an Ozymandias moment and really thinking about each and everypersoncharacter he's going tokillcut, and the impact it'll have on that character's fans.
So, the point is: Sakurai is NOT doing this out of malice. If he has to cut, he has to cut. But hey, with enough noise, maybe they'll think to bring back cut characters as DLC?
Yep, both Bowser Jr. and the Clown Car itself look adorable and cool. I have a feeling Bowser Jr. is going to be REALLY popular. The Mario fan base is huge, and the kids playing will have grown up with Bowser Jr. (and the Koopalings, too, thanks to their recent resurgence in NSMB, MK8, etc). I'm really curious if Bowser Jr. will get his own dedicated reveal trailer, or if he'll share it with a newcomer from another series. He could easily have his own, since they could fit in all of the Koopalings while they're at it.Same man! He's my ultimate "never knew I wanted, but now need him" character. His play style looks so sick!
A better moveset too. Ness' yoyo is crap compared to Lucas' smash attacks.I'd actually take Lucas over Ness.
Better design and better voice.
I don't care about Mother in the least though.
This would be great! I really want more Metroid representation...Since we were talking about how Metroid Prime's core form would work as a playable character earlier, I made a moveset. I thought giving her the phazon hyper beam makes sense because it's associated with the character, even if it's Samus who used it. The way I see Prime's character working is that she would be a zoner, using phazon pools, shockwaves, and phazon beams to keep foes at tentacle's reach. The final smash was pretty obvious.
Also, I'm fine with clones, they are not taking a character "slot" because if they decided to cut X, removing a clone won't change that.
We do know there's some case of borrowing assets when it comes to stages (we know Sakurai asked Hal Laboratory for a lot of Melee data when creating Brawl), but very elucidating post nonetheless. If I could rep you, I would rep you hard.snip
The WW Ganondorf is the same adult timeline Ganondorf that is defeated and sealed away by Link at the end of OoT. After he's sealed away, he breaks free and takes over, causing Hyrule to flood. He became Ganon for that final battle. WW just gives some motivation for why he turned evil in the first place: Gerudo Desert is a shitty place to live.
Here's a thought: It is possible that Lucas and Wolf are in fact Ness/Fox costumes, but they simply were not given the clone treatment like Lucina, Dark Pit, and Mr. Dario.With clone characters, you are taking an existing rig and animations, giving it a new model and voicework, usually changing the VFX in minor ways, and bumping it up to a full character. In Smash 4 in particular, all of the clones we have seen get added were derived from alternate costumes. Doctor Mario was a Mario outfit, Lucina was a Marth outfit, and Dark Pit was a Pit outfit.
Lucas and Wolf, while they could have been produced using the clone pipeline, did not exist as costumes for other characters and therefore would have been too much work to complete in time for the game's release. (this is an assumption on my part, backed up by the comments Sakurai made about ZSS's shorts outfit revealed recently)
I do think there's some case of borrowing assets when it comes to stages, but very elucidating post nonetheless. If I could rep you, I would rep you hard.
He just does haha. He does it in TP, and he does it in OoT, because you see the defeated Ganondorf sealed away at the end.That's really odd. I guess I had my timelines mixed up. Thanks for the clarification, anyway. How does he go from Ganon back to Ganondorf, then?
That's not true. A bunch of characters are reusing voicework from the previous game. In the Brawl Iwata Asks, Sakurai even admitted that certain characters were using audio recorded in 1999.the voicework is not reused.