Sodding_Gamer
Member
But playstation are treating Destiny like a first party remember
But why does that matter anyway? If anything that would be even less motivation to provide free dlc as it's a smaller player Base than a multiplat game!
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Glitch in Destiny reveals DLC details and content is partially on Disc
- Thread starter DNAbro
- Start date
But playstation are treating Destiny like a first party remember
But why does that matter anyway? If anything that would be even less motivation to provide free dlc as it's a smaller player Base than a multiplat game!
Chû Totoro
Member
On disc DLC... yeah \o/
Can someone tell me if Forza Horizon 2 already has announced DLC? I'm thinking about it but I've pre-ordered the game (yeah I'm a fool, I shouldn't do this anymore) so I'm going to wait release and confirmation that there is nothing on disc since one of the few games minus is the not that big content in the game (locations etc.)
And why this practice is not illegal? Seriously, on disc downloadable content ?!? WTF how such things are possible. You pay for a key of content you should already own since it's on the physical game you own.
Can someone tell me if Forza Horizon 2 already has announced DLC? I'm thinking about it but I've pre-ordered the game (yeah I'm a fool, I shouldn't do this anymore) so I'm going to wait release and confirmation that there is nothing on disc since one of the few games minus is the not that big content in the game (locations etc.)
And why this practice is not illegal? Seriously, on disc downloadable content ?!? WTF how such things are possible. You pay for a key of content you should already own since it's on the physical game you own.
CyclopsRock
Member
But playstation are treating Destiny like a first party remember
But why does that matter anyway? If anything that would be even less motivation to provide free dlc as it's a smaller player Base than a multiplat game!
Because when EA release a game, it needs to make money because it serves no other function. For a first party game, Sony or MS could make a strategic decision that it doesn't need to make money (or could even lose them money) because it offers them something else as a platform holder. For example, Sony might see that they don't have enough decent Pet Raising sims on their platform, and they don't want a hole in their lineup like that, so they decide to put Naughty Dog to making a Pet Raising sim even if it ends up costing more to produce than they sell, because it improves the over-all brand.
This isn't the case for 3rd parties because they don't have a platform to promote.
Edit:
Chû Totoro;132133097 said:
Lol
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Ah ok that makes sense I suppose.
Naughty Dog is known for well, debatable DLC pricing.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Why was that funny?
CyclopsRock
Member
Gravy Boat
Member
I know nothing about the law so excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't the idea of DLC (downloadable content) that is actually not downloadable, but already on a disc that you have already paid for, fall under false advertising or something?
IAmRandom31
Banned
The pricing, among other things, is a slight indicator that they want their games to be profitable. Thats why Naughty Dog is working on Uncharted 4. They want profit. Otherwise it wouldn't get greenlighted. That is all.
Gravy Boat
Member
Really? If something was advertised as being 'On Disc', then you got home and found out you had to download the content I'm pretty sure that would cross some sort of legal barrier, so why wouldn't this since it's pretty much the same?
Not being argumentative, genuine questions.
Chû Totoro
Member
Care to share the fun?
It may be quite the norm in the industry but it doesn't change the fact that it's a bad practice (and I'm ok for DLC, just no day one and not on disc ffs).
They didn't advertise this stuff as being part of the base game that you're buying, it's incomplete and mostly empty versions of some of the areas featured in the DLC.
Gravy Boat
Member
I know people who have spent double that playing Bejewelled Blitz on Facebook. A game with one mode that you play over and over again.
Forcing you to grind for dozens of hours to get certain items doesn't count as content in my opinion.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Did you read the thread at all?
MMaRsu
Banned
Lol content that was held back is released for free and Bungie is forgiven?
Lol why all this" Lets give Bungie the benefit of the doubt! " bullshit has got to stop. Bungie already has your money, they dont give a fuck.
They gonna release paid dlc which is content cut from the storyline.
Fuck Bungie and Fuck Activision.
CyclopsRock
Member
Because it's so totally arbitrary. There's two ways to look at this, since we're talking legalities here - holistically, or technically.
Holistically (ie overall), this is a load of cods wallop for reasons that have already been gone into in this thread. Who cares if it's on the disk? The value proposition of the game you purchased doesn't change whether it's on the disk or not. Is the game worth $60? That's up to you to decide. The existence of some code or assets on the disk doesn't change that. The work of the people who may or may not have been making DLC for 5 years doesn't change that. These 50 (I just made that number up - the point is, it doesn't matter) people being hired specifically to do it, being taken from another team, being outsourced workers in India, being the core team who've been working tirelessly on DLC for a few years - none of this changes the value proposition that you're faced with when you decided whether or not to buy the game. When you buy a game, you aren't buying the whole fruits of labour of the development team between the last game and the current, nor an arbitrary period of time, nor anything else. You're buying the offering in front of you. So in that sense, the idea of DLC being "illegal" if it's on the disk is utterly laughable, like complaining that Malware Bytes Pro version is already installed, and all you're paying for is the license code and suggesting it be illegal as a result.
The other way is technically - you've paid for the content of the disk and you should therefore have absolute access to what's on the disk, in the same way you should be allowed to rip a CD to your hard drive because you should have full access to that CD. And you do have full access to the disk. You have full access to the compiled code that sits in 1's and 0's on the disk, and you can do anything you want with it. Except you can't, because you don't know how. You don't know how to use that data outside of a PS4, and even if you did, you wouldn't know how to unlock the hidden stuff. Maybe it's not even possible - but you didn't buy the source code, you bought the compiled code, that's what's on the disk and that's what you have to play with. In that sense, what you have is akin to buying a CD but not having any CD ripping software. Well, that ain't Universal Records fault.
The only sense in which it could be argued to be illegal is in an entitled "It should be illegal because I want it for free" way. Which isn't a very good basis for legal argument.
In short, you didn't pay for that content. It doesn't matter if it's on the disk, on Bungie's servers or etched into stone tablets in Mount Sinai - if it isn't playable, it wasn't part of the value judgement. If it were, you'd be able to play it. But you can't.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
On disc/cut from release DLC is kind of annoying. But I don't mind it that much if the retail release has enough content and it's a game I want to keep playing for a long time as those are worth more money to me and I don't mind paying more for it with DLC overtime etc. to suppport the developer.
Destiny fits that bill to me. I'm almost 2 days of game time in, and only at level 26, haven't done the raid, nor played much PvP. So plenty of content for me, and I'm looking forward to the expansions to freshen stuff up once I'm done with the raid and grinding levels as high as I have the patience for.
Destiny fits that bill to me. I'm almost 2 days of game time in, and only at level 26, haven't done the raid, nor played much PvP. So plenty of content for me, and I'm looking forward to the expansions to freshen stuff up once I'm done with the raid and grinding levels as high as I have the patience for.
MMaRsu
Banned
Lol this guy. 100 hours? Show me them receipts.How many times did you replay the same shit?
Spit up all over my keyboard man, thanks... Heh heh...
CyclopsRock
Member
Well yeah, of course they want profit, but the point I was making is that platform holders making games can make strategic decisions which have the intention of increasing profit but not necessarily for a given game. As an example, Driveclub's inclusion on PS+ is likely going to hit it's profit margins as a game (though it'll be hard to ever know for sure) with the hope of increasing the number of people signing up to PS+ which, in time, will gain them profit.
TheCanisDirus
Member
So you're saying because the software is, at it's base unit, binary code we should be ok with the possibility that it's already on the disc because it's not in a full, playable form?
If i run with that logic... What if I buy a box of say, Destiny Legos, with the knowledge that a limited edition set of extra figures is going to be released in 3 months for an additional fee. What if I then find those pieces in the box, all ready to be put together but in some locked container i can't get to or use... that's ok?
(Just having fun with this... no animosity here.)
CyclopsRock
Member
Well no, I think the technical argument is a load of old nonsense too, but a lot of people suggest that they've bought the disk so they own what's on the disk. My point is that they do indeed own what's on the disk, they just can't do anything useful with it. The actual reason that I think " we should be ok with the possibility that it's already on the disc" is because what's on the disk doesn't interest me beyond what's actually playable - it's upon what's playable that I make my decision as to whether a game is worth the £40 they're charging me.
As for the Lego argument, well if you're able to bust open that box without Lego sending you the key (that they'll charge you for, natch) then have at it! Maybe they were silly for putting them in a box that you could potentially open. And if you manage to open it, well done! You probably won't be able to, though. At that point, it's up to you whether you want to spend the money to get the key - the fact you technically already have the goods doesn't really matter since you can't enjoy them without the key.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
But that lego box inside the big box you bought that you can't access is taking up room for lego that should of been there in the first place...
Which is kind of the point about this whole dlc thing.
TheCanisDirus
Member
But doesn't all that potential sort of bum you out? I understand what you mean but the possibility of having another set or two of missions, strikes etc. already there... but non-playable all because of a set DLC plan... just feels shitty.
Honestly i bet it's a big combination of many factors; however, i find Bungie to appear more shady and players to view them as such because of how things have been handled so far. They would really benefit (Hell, we all would.) if they would just come out and address it. Maybe explain a little more about future free updates etc.
I just looked at the glitch videos ... they're both set on Earth.
Considering that the first expansion packs are themed for the Moon and the Reef, it's unlikely that the leaked areas represent a significant amount of content for either.
Personally, I really like the game, and I'm happy to have bought the limited edition. I do think the content is a little on the light side (I would love to have access to more than six strikes).
I honestly think that there's more than a little over-reaction to this news here, especially from the "I'm glad I never bought Destiny" crowd.
Considering that the first expansion packs are themed for the Moon and the Reef, it's unlikely that the leaked areas represent a significant amount of content for either.
Personally, I really like the game, and I'm happy to have bought the limited edition. I do think the content is a little on the light side (I would love to have access to more than six strikes).
I honestly think that there's more than a little over-reaction to this news here, especially from the "I'm glad I never bought Destiny" crowd.
CyclopsRock
Member
I think this is the point at which the analogy falls apart. I mentioned before a hypothetical scenario in which Bungie had 50 people working on this DLC, but imagine that they didn't - imagine they were never hired. Would you feel short changed? What if they were working on another Bungie IP, would you feel entitled to the products of their labour? What if those 50 people were helping simply polish up the graphics on level 3? What if they hadn't been hired until the day the game went gold? Or, to continue the analogy, what if the people that made the cool, 3 figurines had instead been making Duplo that was never going anywhere near your box of Lego. Would you feel short changed? You get the same product either way.
Sure, I'd love it if it were free. And I think there's a lot of games out there that have profited hugely from giving out free content, such as Left 4 Dead 2, so maybe it's something Bungie are considering for other planned expansions (though probably not). But I never felt entitled to be able to play the L4D1 maps with L4D2 weapons.
infinit777
Member
Ok this may have been mentioned before but i haven't had a chance to read through the whole thread.
They may not have all the content for the locations made yet, The fact that they put that stuff on the disk may have been in order to make DL size smaller, or they may not be able to edit already existing locations.
Keep in mind that they did inform us that there was going to be dlc, their dlc team was probably working along side the normal games dev cycle so they could have put the required things there but blocked access until the dlc is finished and you are able to purchase the dlc.
this is also a double edged sword, If they gave players access to the areas and only populated them with missions after the dlc was released there would be a huge player backlash about lack of actual content.
They may not have all the content for the locations made yet, The fact that they put that stuff on the disk may have been in order to make DL size smaller, or they may not be able to edit already existing locations.
Keep in mind that they did inform us that there was going to be dlc, their dlc team was probably working along side the normal games dev cycle so they could have put the required things there but blocked access until the dlc is finished and you are able to purchase the dlc.
this is also a double edged sword, If they gave players access to the areas and only populated them with missions after the dlc was released there would be a huge player backlash about lack of actual content.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
I feel short changed as it is with out the dlc. It's barebones what is there. What will be interesting is if this dlc mixes up the press square gameplay, and if it was indeed ready before launch. Because if so it should of been there as part of the standard game. There would be no complaints of lacking content, and mission variety. Time will tell I guess.
TheCanisDirus
Member
I hope they do. Man, Bungie really must feel off balance with the all of this. The reviews, then this.... They're not used to it and seemed to genuinely care about their players. I bet that some of them are pretty bummed. Honestly feel a little bad for them. I still feel a little mislead though.
Are people not paying attention? We can access some of these areas currently through glitches and one has full enemy encounters.
Oh jeez, you really didn't understand a thing I said, huh?
That was the exact point. You don't have 300 employees doing nothing for the last two months. But you don't have time to make new stuff and include it in the shipping product either. Anything new that you make at the end has to be DLC. You won't have time to test it and flesh it out otherwise.
300 people won't be doing nothing. But the artists and less technical people likely would be if it weren't for DLC.
How is this so hard for people to understand? You don't start making new sh*t at the end of the dev cycle. And if you do, it has to be post launch content.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
$40 for that is ridiculous, I knew I was getting into a DLC-fest when I bought the game, but that price tag for that amount of content is insane. I guess I'll just get to level 30, sell the game and maybe buy it when the complete edition or whatever comes out.
As I mentioned, the glitch-accessible areas are set on Earth, which probably don't make a up significant percentage of expansion packs that are set on the Moon and the Reef, respectively.
Prove it.
I seriously love how people always resorts to comments like this. It's okay to have a positive opinion of the game but if you have a "negative" there's always an excuse to downplay their opinion. They haven't played the game, they haven't put 80 hours into it, they are trolls, they are haters, they are the minority, the game will be better a month from now, the game will be better with the expansions, Queen's Wrath will add depth, etc every excuse imaginable to downplay the opinion you disagree with.
Let's forget the PR crap that Bungie spin about this game.
Then let's look at the actual content:
Campaign missions
Strikes
Raid
Patrol
Pvp
Then events like nightfall, daily, queen's wrath, etc...
Now, even though the events are recycle areas they add new ways to play. Compare this to an mmo and it seems lacking. Compare it to a typical AAA fps release and it has a huge amount of content.
You might not like Destiny, you may find what content it has repetitive, but saying it lacks actual content is deluded.
They make up 3/6 missions from both DLCs and 1/4 strikes. So yeah there will be more areas, it's just disappointing that we know they are probably already there.
and just as a random side note. I do really like the game, I just wish it could have been much better than it actually is.
Honestly, if Destiny had had the exact same amount of content but a great story and more variety in the mission design then I doubt half the people would be complaining about lack of content.
MMaRsu
Banned
You're roght its probably harder to makr a good multiplayer map than a strike in Destiny.
Just go to place > press square to Tyrion > shoot a few enemies.
MMaRsu
Banned
Actually they do. The content is named the reef but the mission descriptions have you fighting enemies on earth.
Oh well you'll all see.
Confidence Man
Member
I really thought the blocked off areas in the beta like the Jovian Complex were going to be used in the final game and help flesh out the story and stuff. :/
Uh it has generic spawns. You can currently go all the way to the spider tank fight as well with generic spawns but it doesn't have full enemy encounters like the Devils lair strike does.
So much jumping to conclusions in this thread.
MMaRsu
Banned
Comparing Destiny to Halo 3 or Halo Reach and this game is devoid of any good content.
Deluded? No.
What new ways to play do the events add?
Those strikes, are all the same mechanics wise. They offer nothing fresh.
Fehyd jumping to conclusions from your side as well.