CadetMahoney
Member
*Unless you're looking at a wall and nothing else is happening.
-
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Bloodborne Producer: Targeting 30fps for "Game Design" purposes
- Thread starter Guerrilla
- Start date
*Unless you're looking at a wall and nothing else is happening.
If realism matters that much to you, 60 fps should be even more of a priority. 30 fps is not realistic in any way, shape or form and instantly kills any sense of immersion you get from a realistic looking game.
Your comparison is flawed because it shows two different settings which are trying to evoke a completely different atmosphere, but even so, the fidelity in the Dark Souls screenshot is more than sufficient to evoke a sense of realism, and with the PS4 they could have still easily surpassed that level of fidelity while targeting 60 fps.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
This isn't true for me, which proves it's not a universal principle and you should embark on a different line of argument. Comparing framerates to the mechanics of human vision is a fool's errand anyway. Your eyes don't see at 60fps. The world doesn't scroll smoothly when you "pan around" with your gaze. It's just completely different, so don't tell me what technical features are required for me to be immersed in a game.
This is just not true for everyone. It's probably not true for the large majority of people. I have certainly never felt any loss of immersion from it.
Says the guy who compared Captain Toad to Bloodborne.
As Hey said, your first statement is not a fact, far from it actually. Our eyes stagger on individual points of interest as we 'sweep' our vision. We don't experience that smooth camera rotation at 60fps provides in reality. It's notably more jerky, as is 30fps. Secondly, the comment also ignores the fact that at 60fps, the graphics will be worse, most importantly including the quality of motion blur possible, which substantially helps recreate our visual experience of reality.
Second statement, I can't believe you say my screenshots are too different, when you posted a picture of Toad... Is this a joke? It's a troll right? Right?
martino
Member
Do your best to not understand...if at worst you do ~45-50 average it means you have a rock solid vsync lock at 30
Please point out where I compared Toad to Bloodborne.
You don't think this looks "insanely good"? Never mind that it's running at 60 fps on LAST GEN HARDWARE!
If developers made targeting 60 fps a priority like Nintendo does, they can achieve similarly eye-popping results.
Did you start gaming with the PS3 and Xbox 360? There are literally thousands of 60 fps games available on other consoles.
...
If they allow you to lock the framerate. 'At worst', they wouldn't, would they? How is it a worst case scenario if you omit the worst case?
BossLackey
Gold Member
My sentiments exactly. I don't need a superhigh frame rate, especially in anything outside of shooters. As long as it's super smooth, I'm completely fine with 30fps
Where is the Bloodborne comparison? I don't see it.
You said Bloodborne should be able to do 1080p60fps because Captain Toad can do it.
Oh. Well now I'm even more confused about what he's trying to prove.
No I didn't. I said it's possible for games to run at 60 fps and still look good, using Toad as an example.
I still don't see how that statement has anything to do with Bloodborne specifically.
This is what I was confused. If Mario was 720p hitting 60fps much easier than BB being 1080p and trying to hit 60. I mean sure if he wanted to make BB be 720 it child hit 60 much easier, but it would not look good. The cartoony art style help to hide that.
Solid 30 is fine by me.
FROM said they were aiming for a solid 30 in DS2 as well. They didn't really manage, but I loved the game still and it was fine.
I want to bet they won't manage for Bloodborne, but what I saw from Alpha streams looks like a helluva lot more things going on than DS2 and even though it won't be a solid 30fps I want to bet I will love Bloodborne too.
FROM said they were aiming for a solid 30 in DS2 as well. They didn't really manage, but I loved the game still and it was fine.
I want to bet they won't manage for Bloodborne, but what I saw from Alpha streams looks like a helluva lot more things going on than DS2 and even though it won't be a solid 30fps I want to bet I will love Bloodborne too.
PS4 exclusive, published by Sony, never going to be on PC
You're in a Bloodborne thread you know.
Are you serious?
He said Toad has small environments.
You said PS4 is more powerful than Wii U so could look like Toad and do big environments.
This is a 30 vs 60 fps thread with Bloodborne as a subtext.
Okay, so I'm comparing Toad to a hypothetical nonexistent PS4 game?
Cornbread78
Member
Oh well, nice updates OP, glad we got that all sorted out...
shadowsdarknes
Member
I understand that the Souls games tend to have pretty poor frame rates.
But just because one developer uses the word "targets" for a frame rate does not mean that it means the same thing for every developer who uses the word "targets".
If a developer is targeting 30 fps, they could be ranging anywhere from 25-45 fps while unlocked and they are targeting getting the low side up to 30.
Where as for another developer, it literally could mean they are working on getting their game that runs anywhere from 20-28 fps up to 30 fps on average.
But just because one developer uses the word "targets" for a frame rate does not mean that it means the same thing for every developer who uses the word "targets".
If a developer is targeting 30 fps, they could be ranging anywhere from 25-45 fps while unlocked and they are targeting getting the low side up to 30.
Where as for another developer, it literally could mean they are working on getting their game that runs anywhere from 20-28 fps up to 30 fps on average.
Hey look I can use the same gif for two of you at once.
This is a 30 v 60 debate for Bloodbourne, not with it as subtext. The translation was wrong, and he was only speaking about his game.
Handy Fake
Member
Glad I read this thread, cracking. Reminds me of the sign-language interpreter at Nelson Mandela's funeral.
So you are trolling, cool, sorry man.
I'm just going to keep linking this forever aren't I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8btNuuCY90
Bayo 2 hits 60 when there is nothing on screen, its jumps around as if we were in a early/mid 90's house party
Shadow_FFVI
Member
And so the love relationship between Bloodborne and GAF continues.
As it should. Game looks amazing!
As it should. Game looks amazing!
I'm simply arguing that you can have impressive graphics and 60 fps at the same time. You're the one putting words in my mouth and attributing a comparison to me that I never made.
Firstly, Servbot24 said you made the comparison, and I agree that you did.
Secondly, this is a thread about Bloodborne. If you don't want to discuss Bloodborne, you can post elsewhere.
This was the post that started it, directly in response to From and Bloodborne:
'Make it', it being Bloodborne, not some hypothetical PS4 game that looks like Toad. Bloodborne is set in a twisted Victorian Romania, it's not set in the Mushroom Kingdom, it's intricately detailed, it's not a fever dream bouncy castle. To create the atmosphere they intended, they needed to dedicate lots of resources to the visuals, those resources make achieving 60fps not viable.
Handy Fake
Member
lukeskymac
Member
Look, I can do this stupid shit too!
Castlevania I on the NES ran at 60FPS with NO* drops! Why can't Bayonetta 2 do that on the Wii U?
*
Unless you threw three crosses while Death had three scythes flying. Then the game would crash
CadetMahoney
Member
They already said sometime ago it will be "target 30fps" iirc. So framedrops are guaranteed.
You mean the ps4 is not powerful enough to run it looking the way it dies at 60. 30 will be fine. It's not like dark souls players on console know anything different. Let's just hope it's not frequent drops under 30. Can't wait for bloodborne. It's my kinda ish
Bayonneta is just an example, so if you prefer you can pick up yours.
But yours is worst because it prove that a less less powerfull console can run a game at 60 fps.
While we're all expecting here to see the power of PS4 be used.
Frame rate change during a game depending of what is happening in the game.
Even in Bayonnetta 2, it loose 10 FPS during some heavy combats.
So there is a high change that game will drop to 20 fps when there will be multiple ennemies or effects happening on the screen.
That's why people wish the game to aim higher FPS so the game will have less chance to suffer any visual drop frame rate like lag or jerking.
Edit : we all want here Bloodborn to be a smooth action game.
anexanhume
Member
I've seen the visuals and lighting and am in love. If they can hit 60 fps, great. If they can only do 30 fps (with hopefully few dips), that's fine. We're all going to be playing at 4K/60 on PS5 anyway, right?
FleckSplat
Member
Why did the title change to something that the dev didn't say? Quotes are losing value for some reason.
That's really surprising, coming from you!
They should always aim for 35-40fps when they're "targeting 30". That way they still have some room to breathe during the most hectic sequences. Given this is a pretty straightforward game that shouldn't be a problem, but since the player always has the last word, it's not easy to achieve at all times. When they strive for 30 and nothing more, we end up in the 25-30 fps all the time, which is jarring (just an example).
What if I play the game as "intended", killing enemies one by one where they appear. I will probably get a steady 30fps. But if I aggro them and make them chase me to another enemy crowd I will be facing 8-9 enemies at the same time, throwing explosive shit at my face, which can make the framerate tank in a haze of pretty particles and smoke effects .The game probably wasn't expecting that load. Doubly so in open world games, where it's even harder to "predict" player actions.
I don't remember having a single fps drop while playing Uncharted 2, because they probably got the game running at 35-40 fps but decided to cap it cause of the judder we would see otherwise.
They should never aim for 30, aim higher, then cap it. I'm was never expecting 60fps for Bloodbourne but I am expecting them to maintain a solid 30 throughout the game.
The hardware is easier to program and they are probably getting assistance from Sony. Besides, this isn't like the previous gen where devs had to come to terms with hd development; I think they are past that point where they have to adjust.
Give me a solid 30 (some very rare dips aside) and I'll be happy. The game is more fast paced than previous entries, so a solid fps is crucial.
What if I play the game as "intended", killing enemies one by one where they appear. I will probably get a steady 30fps. But if I aggro them and make them chase me to another enemy crowd I will be facing 8-9 enemies at the same time, throwing explosive shit at my face, which can make the framerate tank in a haze of pretty particles and smoke effects .The game probably wasn't expecting that load. Doubly so in open world games, where it's even harder to "predict" player actions.
I don't remember having a single fps drop while playing Uncharted 2, because they probably got the game running at 35-40 fps but decided to cap it cause of the judder we would see otherwise.
They should never aim for 30, aim higher, then cap it. I'm was never expecting 60fps for Bloodbourne but I am expecting them to maintain a solid 30 throughout the game.
The hardware is easier to program and they are probably getting assistance from Sony. Besides, this isn't like the previous gen where devs had to come to terms with hd development; I think they are past that point where they have to adjust.
Give me a solid 30 (some very rare dips aside) and I'll be happy. The game is more fast paced than previous entries, so a solid fps is crucial.
Killing_Joke
Member
So they want to get 60fps. Just can't. Fair enough answer for me. All he's trying to say is 30fps won't kill this game like some other action games.
anexanhume
Member
Do you already own a PS4? Framerate is so important you'd pass over an exclusive on the basis of it? (assuming >= 30 FPS)
NullPointer
Member
That would be very sad if it ends up being the case.
People complain a lot about framedrops in demon souls and yet, they never bothered me. I could only notice it when rolling through a bunch of crates. Which is weird, since I'm usually bothered by framedrops a lot more than I am by screen tearing and such.
It bothered me a lot to play TLoU Remaster at 30, even though it was perfectly locked, the game didn't feel right for some reason.Maybe it was placebo from playing it at 60, but the game felt very "framey" for the lack of better term.
Meanwhile, Infamous SS with fps unlocked didn't bother me at all, while KZ certainly did. I think it varies from game to game. IF this game has drops but they are confined to small things like smashing crates and whatnot, I don't think it will be an issue, at least in my case but I can only speak for myself..
You're comparing a 720p game that no, not only drops 10fps during heavy combat-see the digital foundry video, vs a 1080p game.