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[Besthelboy]

I don't know, changing the mid range game changes the game. I wouldn't chase people who were too far for my AR to hit accurately since I could get exposed, I'd just try to see where they're going and try to intercept him/her or ignore him/her and continue doing what I was doing. With ADS I'll be able to kill him easier and without chasing->being exposed/hit, that's what it looks like anyway.

I'll add also with ADS people will try to run since then know TTK is shorter with ADS rather than try to turn around and hit you back.... so like cod?

 

[RSB]

ADS most certainly is one of Destiny's problems.

Oh yes. Destiny's core gameplay without ADS and without the accuracy penalties when airborne would be god-like. But as it is right now it is just pretty good.

And about Halo 5, it is quite sad to see that pretty much every change 343 is introducing is just making the game more and more like every other modern shooter. As if the FPS genre wasn't already homogenous enough (on consoles, at least)

I was hoping they would at least include the option to use the classic Halo scope in the final game, but seeing things like this, I doubt 343 would even consider it.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

ADS most certainly is one of Destiny's problems.

For real.

Maybe it didn't "break" Destiny, because it's the first in the franchise, but the game is certainly worse off for it.

ADS is the worst. It more or less prevents combining movement with aiming and just dramatically removes what's possible/lowers the skill ceiling.

 

[blamite]

You think so? I firmly believe gameplay is one of Destiny's strengths albeit a bit unbalanced. I'd say Bungie only did a bad job at making hip fire viable in Destiny, COD games balanced hip fire a lot better lol. but too much ADS in Destiny?

Uhhhhhhh... that sounds like exactly the point.

 

[Messofanego]

If both ADS and hip fire are not on equal footing, then yes, it is a penalty to hip fire no matter how similar to previous games.

Such a simple concept to understand. For a recent FPS to compare with equal or even more benefit to hipfire than ADS, look at Wolfenstein.

Aiming down sights disables movement abilities (sabotaging the defining feature of Destiny's classes) and removes jumping from the equation by making your weapons worthless in mid-air. Those are problems. Huge ones.

Is jumping in Destiny only good for the supers where there isn't shooting? Hovering + shooting not possible? If so, what a shame.

 

[NullPointer]

ADS is the worst. It more or less prevents combining movement with aiming and just dramatically removes what's possible/lowers the skill ceiling.

Seems like all you'd need to do is buff hipfiring so that it's the most effective technique to use when within the gun's effective range. I thought that was 343's stated goal here, and it doesn't seem to be that way with Destiny.

 

[Dang0]

4:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UvK-gxdg0

If it becomes such that everybody feels like they have to be using smartscope to be competitive, then we've broken the game.

 

[Bornstellar]

4:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UvK-gxdg0

From the gameplay I've watched that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

 

[Bastables]

I see, then yes by your logic I agree it has a penalty. If you equate every thing to having a penalty: sticky grenade vs regular grenade, sprinting vs regular movement, AR vs BR.

Swords are still effective as weapons, you are handicapping yourself trying to arm your forces with them in a age of guns though.

If ADS is superior, using hip fire means you are and it is a handicap. It will also change the nature of the game.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Why would they do this

 

[Diprosalic]

ADS most certainly is one of Destiny's problems.

it is. big time.

 

[BokehKing]

ADS most certainly is one of Destiny's problems.

Ugh.. had to be a mod who said this.


How is it one of Destiny's problems, it's not supposed to be any other game but Destiny.
I ADS and hip fire equally in that game. I see no problems.

 

[Exploratory]

They'll get crap for whatever decisions they make, so they might as well go with ones they think are the best.

That's bullshit and I'm tired of that line of thinking. When you add something that fundamentally changs and IMO negatively effects the core gameplay you get called out on it. ADS was originally just a cosmetic change and now its just ADS. The fact that they're calling it a smart scope is a slap in the face.

 

[Sephzilla]

Honestly I'm so glad I have minimal interest in Halo 5. Because none if the game's changes look appealing to me at all.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Ugh.. had to be a mod who said this.


How is it one of Destiny's problems, it's not supposed to be any other game but Destiny.
I ADS and hip fire equally in that game. I see no problems.

Because it makes the gameplay booooooooooooooring.

Can't run and shoot, can't jump and shoot, can't have any type of mobility and shoot. Have to walk slow and shoot in a game with fucking jet packs and double/triple jumps.

Whos fucking idea was that?

 

[Garrett 2U]

I don't use smart scope any more than I use zoom in past Halos

 

[crap monkey]

No clue what you're talking about. But those webm's look mm-mm-good.

And this is why companies will keep releasing unfinished garbage like Halo:MCC, and AC Unity. They'll keep selling as long as people like them think it looks good. They don't care about functionality, performance, or even how a game fucking plays, as evidenced by this post. Just as long as they get hyped due to ads and promotions and teaser trailers they'll buy anything.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

I don't use smart scope any more than I use zoom in past Halos

Me either.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Is there a way to view .webm on iOS? Or can somebody post gifs? Mobile am cry

 

[Mike Works]

Destiny's problem isn't ADS when it comes to not being able to jump and fire, its problem is that your accuracy goes from 90% to negative fifty billion % when you do so. Even ADS in mid air gives you next to no accuracy. It's stupid.

I understand that they perhaps don't want everyone triple jumping every two seconds, but it'd be nice if I could do anything other than fire a rocket in mid-air and look for a kill.

 

[Messofanego]

4:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UvK-gxdg0

Ooh boy. Has anyone recorded a match with only hipfire? Might confirm or quell some fears.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

So this is still relevant, huh? Bummer.

 

[Steel]

Wait, there's ADS? *Sigh* Are they trying to make the game more like Destiny?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Meh. You get kicked out of ADS in a gun fight so hip fire is still king.

 

[I Want Your Cat]

Couldn't see the difference in the Assault Rifle.
But the sub machine gun does seem a bit more accurate, that or the angles being different makes it look like it.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

The assault rifles are actually viable outside of close range now, and you get knocked out of ADS instantly whenever you get shot.

 

[Sai]

This would be much more of an issue if you couldn't be knocked out it with so much as a graze, and your movement was penalized.

Smart Scope grants the AR a bit more viability at mid-range—BR and DMR will still dominate at that distance though.

 

[RSB]

Wait, is it true that using ADS with the sword increases the range of the lunge?

Because if it is... OMG.

 

[Bornstellar]

Ooh boy. Has anyone recorded a match with only hipfire? Might confirm or quell some fears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267p_iX2Nkk

Not just hipfire, but looks like Halo.

 

[NullPointer]

That's bullshit and I'm tired of that line of thinking. When you add something that fundamentally changs and IMO negatively effects the core gameplay you get called out on it.

Yes, and that includes every change I've ever read about in my time on GAF (and yes, that includes Bungie's changes). 343 needs some room to at the very least experiment and try to put their own ideas and inspirations forward and find their own take on evolving the series. They seem to acknowledge that they went too far and in the wrong direction with many aspects of Halo 4 and they've reined in a bunch of that and are testing out what they think might work right now, very early on, when they can still collect feedback from the larger Halo public and make changes. But as I read these threads it seems like there's zero allowance provided for deviation from what people consider to be their particular favorite iteration of Halo.

They've already said point blank that if ADS becomes seen as the only viable way to be competitive that they've broken the game. That means they still want hip-fire to rule the roost for most engagements and they're putting that to the test in this beta. And I'm not seeing a chorus of complaints from those actually playing it, so, I don't know, maybe it works pretty well at the moment?

I would just hate to gather together a Halo inspired team of artists and engineers and gameplay devs with the task of keeping the game fresh and distinct over the next 30 years only to turn around and tell them that they're not allowed to come up with new ideas or mechanics or make any changes.

 

[spootime]

Yes, and that includes every change I've ever read about in my time on GAF (and yes, that includes Bungie's changes). 343 needs some room to at the very least experiment and try to put their own ideas and inspirations forward and find their own take on evolving the series. They seem to acknowledge that they went too far in the wrong direction with many aspects of Halo 4 and they've reined in a bunch of that and are testing out what they think might work right now, very early on, when they can still collect feedback from the larger Halo public and make tweaks. But as I read these threads it seems like there's zero allowance provided for deviation from what people consider to be their particular favorite iteration of Halo.

They've already said point blank that if ADS becomes seen as the only viable way to be competitive that they've broken the game. That means they still want hip-fire to rule the roost for most engagements and they're putting that to the test in this beta. And I'm not seeing a chorus of complaints from those actually playing it, so, I don't know, maybe it works pretty well at the moment?

This really isn't true. Thrusters have been pretty widely accepted as a cool addition to the game. Shoulder charge has been somewhat accepted as a cool addition to the game. Dual wield was accepted as a cool change to the game.

Saying "Halo fans just want the same game over and over" is a really bad argument that is pretty impossible to argue against. You can add cool features (ie thrusters) without negatively affecting gameplay (ads).

 

[NullPointer]

Saying "Halo fans just want the same game over and over" is a really bad argument that is pretty impossible to argue against. You can add cool features (ie thrusters) without negatively affecting gameplay (ads).

For every fan that thinks something is a good addition there's another one decrying it as the deathknell of the series, but without having any data to work off of, we can only ever speak anecdotally. That's what I've seen, though thrusters seemed to have the least negativity in regards to what I've read here, though they're still an AA.

I'm not saying not to criticize or anything of the sort, but man, after so many years of reading the same stuff it really does seem like they can't possibly win and they aren't allowed the space to really try.

 

[RBK]

Play the game and try to tell me smart scope is worth using on the automatic weapons.

 

[Exploratory]

For every fan that thinks something is a good addition there's another one decrying it as the deathknell of the series, but without having any data to work off of, we can only ever speak anecdotally. That's what I've seen, though thrusters seemed to have the least negativity in regards to what I've read here, though they're still an AA.

I'm not saying not to criticize or anything of the sort, but man, after so many years of reading the same stuff it really does seem like they can't possibly win and they aren't allowed the space to really try.

ADS isn't trying or coming up with something new. It's ADS.

 

[VeeP]

Who cares? If you get shot it instantly transitions to hip-fire, which really screws up your aim because of the sudden movement of your screen.

It's a beta. Things are bound to change.

If people stayed quiet nothing would change. The point of threads like these is to give feedback. Why would 343i change something if everyone seems content with it?

 

[Messofanego]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267p_iX2Nkk

Not just hipfire, but looks like Halo.

That's a whole lotta ADS, but at least at 1:53 and 5:28 and 6:34 it seems like 4 shots to kill from just hipfire with that battle rifle.

 

[ShogunX]

ADS isn't trying or coming up with something new. It's ADS.

Yep, and so far it works very well and is a viable alternative to firing from the hip. I've seen lots of players (myself included) combing both very well.

it seems like 4 shots to kill from just hipfire with that battle rifle.

Nothing has changed from the older Halo games when it comes to hip fire, why would it not be 4 shot? I'd actually say in a lot of situations you put yourself at a disadvantage when ADS because you lose your radar and the awareness of what's potentially going on around you.

 

[Regret Upon Approval]

I saw the studio chiming in with their goals for the other abilities, but not ADS.
I think they ought to chime in sometime soon before Beta floodgates open to explain what exactly their goal is with it.

It will make feedback collection a hell of a lot better. The responses I've seen for it range from usually neutral-ish to straight up disdain. It and ground pound seem to be the most controversial, but ADS naturally hits a much more tender spot.

 

[Thug Waffle]

For every fan that thinks something is a good addition there's another one decrying it as the deathknell of the series, but without having any data to work off of, we can only ever speak anecdotally. That's what I've seen, though thrusters seemed to have the least negativity in regards to what I've read here, though they're still an AA.

I'm not saying not to criticize or anything of the sort, but man, after so many years of reading the same stuff it really does seem like they can't possibly win and they aren't allowed the space to really try.

343 can't win because they gleefully ignore the complaints against their "evolutionary" approach to the Halo franchise.

 

[BBboy20]

You know, I always wondered curious on seeing UNSC soldiers shooting their guns by the zooming of the helmets. But that reflex scope aiming...yeah.

 

[JaggedSac]

Not sure how people didn't realize this. We saw the damn reticule get smaller in the first videos that were put out there.

 

[Messofanego]

Nothing has changed from the older Halo games when it comes to hip fire, why would it not be 4 shot? I'd actually say in a lot of situations you put yourself at a disadvantage when ADS because you lose your radar and the awareness of what's potentially going on around you.

I wasn't comparing it to past Halo games, just stating what I saw. Haven't played Halo since 2. Don't really play the MP that often.

 

[NullPointer]

343 can't win because they gleefully ignore the complaints against their "evolutionary" approach to the Halo franchise.

Except that there is no personal ordnance here, or custom loadouts, or armor abilities, or perks, or flinch, or jetpacks (*sniff*) and its all about even starts and map control. They're obviously listening to complaints.

Instead their approach here seems to be about finding a new balance of base traits with an emphasis on mobility. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but they are putting it to the test.

 

[...Scatter...]

Not understanding the furor over this. The AR was shit at everything beyond 15 yards before. This makes it a see bit better at mid range but descopes your ass as soon as you get hit. I welcome this change.

 

[Thug Waffle]

^Then just make the AR better in general. There's no strong argument for CoD-ifying the sandbox with ADS bonuses. After Bungie decided to make an FPS, Halo has - until recent iterations - been about emulating the sort of balance and simplicity present in arena PC shooters like Quake and Unreal.

Except that there is no personal ordnance here, or custom loadouts, or armor abilities, or perks, or jetpacks (*sniff*) and its all about even starts and map control. They're obviously listening to complaints.

Instead their approach here seems to be about finding a new balance of base traits with an emphasis on mobility. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but they are putting it to the test.

Except that there's still flinch, still sprint, still armor abilities masquerading as base player traits. ADS clearly functions as ADS and not simply an aesthetic alternative to "scoping in." Whether it affects all weapons or some is beside the point. It's out of place. Staples of Halo gameplay (and arena gameplay at large) have been nerfed, like quickscoping, jumping and firing.

This game has a long way to go before it lives up to their professed intentions. Is there reason to be optimistic? Sure, especially with current and ex-pros involved. Is there reason to doubt 343? After H4 and MCC? Fuck yeah, there is.

 

[...Scatter...]

And this is why companies will keep releasing unfinished garbage like Halo:MCC, and AC Unity. They'll keep selling as long as people like them think it looks good. They don't care about functionality, performance, or even how a game fucking plays, as evidenced by this post. Just as long as they get hyped due to ads and promotions and teaser trailers they'll buy anything.

Well this is certainly jumping the gun...

 

[...Scatter...]

^Then just make the AR better in general. There's no strong argument for CoD-ifying the sandbox with ADS bonuses. After deciding to make an FPS, Halo has - until recent iterations - been about emulating the sort of balance and simplicity present in arena PC shooters like Quake and Unreal.



Except that there's still flinch, still sprint, still armor abilities masquerading as base player traits. ADS clearly functions as ADS and not simply an aesthetic alternative to "scoping in." Whether it affects all weapons or some is beside the point. It's out of place. Staples of Halo gameplay (and arena gameplay at large) have been nerfed, like quickscoping, jumping and firing.

This game has a long way to go before it lives up to their professed intentions. Is there reason to be optimistic? Sure. Is there reason to doubt 343? After H4 and MCC? Fuck yeah, there is.

But we've been zooming since forever in Halo. I did it with the freaking pistol for gods sakes. It's just giving the autos a little (really very little) live.

 

[Thug Waffle]

But we've been zooming since forever in Halo. I did it with the freaking pistol for gods sakes. It's just giving the autos a little (really very little) live.

The problem is that ADS is actually slower than the traditional scoping-in animations. There's people streaming right now, several of them have commented on it and it's been brought up numerous times on TeamBeyond already. If 343 fixes that delay and disables performance changes, then I'm all for keeping ADS. It should be an aesthetic change ONLY.

And like I just said, the autos don't need ADS boosts to be more viable options. Just make the weapon better overall, whether you're hip-firing or scoping-in.

 

[Head.spawn]

4:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UvK-gxdg0

...but that's not the case, at all.

Also, this thread title is beyond bs. I mean, if you're going to quote the guy in the OP, why are you going to mince words in the title? And yet this thread will sail on anyways.

Thread title says "343 claims no ADS bonus"
Quote says "No penalty for hipfire"

The quote is 100% correct, the gun works exactly as it does in previous Halo games. Where is the lie?

If it said "No bonus for ADS", OP would have a point, but it doesn't.

 

[INTERNET]

This is probably the most incoherent thread of the year, front to back. Excelsior!