Not true.
Compare the spread of hip fire to previous Halos and you'll find it's very similar. The effect ADS has is increasing the effective range of the AR.
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343 claims no ADS bonus in Halo 5, beta appears to demonstrate otherwise
- Thread starter PairOfFilthySocks
- Start date
Compare the spread of hip fire to previous Halos and you'll find it's very similar. The effect ADS has is increasing the effective range of the AR.
stan423321
Member
So it appears to be a terminology problem there.
The mechanic defender(s?) talk about hip-fire penalty compared to past installments, everybody else talks about hip-fire penalty compared to iron sights which is indeed de facto equivalent to iron sights getting a bonus.
Of note is the fact that even if iron sights would give no accuracy bonus, they would be useful at certain points due to user knowing their base shooting angle better.
The mechanic defender(s?) talk about hip-fire penalty compared to past installments, everybody else talks about hip-fire penalty compared to iron sights which is indeed de facto equivalent to iron sights getting a bonus.
Of note is the fact that even if iron sights would give no accuracy bonus, they would be useful at certain points due to user knowing their base shooting angle better.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Well that's the thing people now have to judge whether or not the changes are for the better or not. Changing the dynamics of the game does not necessarily mean a bad thing.
NullPointer
Member
Sure does look like the early explanations don't line up with the beta.
But I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. If the AR is a starting weapon doesn't a zoom/ADS give the weapon more utility w/o unbalancing it?
But then again I've never understood the problem with ADS vs classic zoom. The increased accuracy is gained at the cost of a narrow viewpoint with ADS. There is a natural balance there that doesn't seem to exist at all with Halo's classic and unobstructed zoom.
But I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. If the AR is a starting weapon doesn't a zoom/ADS give the weapon more utility w/o unbalancing it?
But then again I've never understood the problem with ADS vs classic zoom. The increased accuracy is gained at the cost of a narrow viewpoint with ADS. There is a natural balance there that doesn't seem to exist at all with Halo's classic and unobstructed zoom.
If that's the case, I don't really mind the change. As someone else mentioned, it gives a slight buff to automatics at mid-range, which I think might be a good thing given that Halo multiplayer is often centered around semi-automatic weapons. Note that I haven't played the Halo 5 beta yet.
buddha0991
Member
I get why people are saying the ADS gives a bonus instead of a penalty to hip fire. If you compare the SMG and AR accuracy to earlier Halo titles with those same guns, the shooting looks almost the same
Ol No Bones
Banned
The beta is waiting for me at home and I can't see those webms on mobile. Will someone explain what the benefit of smart scope truly is. Does it make the gun more accurate or does it just improve visibility to make shots cause there is a huge difference in the two?
It really does appear to be the case. Aiming I'm close quarters feels very similar to previous Halos. Scoping is completely useless because you can't track fast enough, you're descoped and the increased accuracy doesn't actually help. Because of this you aim like you normally would and fire from the hip.
The scope is only useful at mid range. It effectively increases the range of the AR without making it too OP at close range.
Darryl M R
Member
Geez some of you guys seem dense.
Hip-fire isn't reduced or less effective as it was.
If you have "method A" of doing things, and then "method B" is introduced and it offers weaknesses and benefits of "method A" that doesn't mean "method A" has changed for the worse. In fact, it did not change at all. Just a new method was introduced.
Edit: This isn't an argument if Halo is changing or not. I'm just pointing out facts.
Hip-fire isn't reduced or less effective as it was.
If you have "method A" of doing things, and then "method B" is introduced and it offers weaknesses and benefits of "method A" that doesn't mean "method A" has changed for the worse. In fact, it did not change at all. Just a new method was introduced.
Edit: This isn't an argument if Halo is changing or not. I'm just pointing out facts.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Wouldn't more accuracy via ADS be....you know, normal?
buddha0991
Member
but the hip fire of those guns looks almost identical to how those guns shot in previous Halos and they didnt have scopes in those games (except for the silenced smg in Halo ODST and H2A multiplayer)
We were told otherwise.
Edit: nvm read this wrong. But yeah people were expecting it to function like normal halo.
Gnome Scat
Member
Key word: penalty.
The new method is better than the old method, so the old method is now a penalty. If someone is in ADS, they have and advantage over hip fire. That is a penalty.
Bornstellar
Member
Only on automatics right?
I'm okay with this.
Zooming close range with an AR isn't going to help much since you'll get knocked out almost immediately. The one thing this does is allow the AR to descope opponents at range meaning it's actually possible to defend yourself with it - thus making it a viable starting weapon.
I'm okay with this.
Zooming close range with an AR isn't going to help much since you'll get knocked out almost immediately. The one thing this does is allow the AR to descope opponents at range meaning it's actually possible to defend yourself with it - thus making it a viable starting weapon.
Ol No Bones
Banned
That may make the AR BR balance more tolerable IMO. Getting caught with an smg/ar with someone mid range with a br could be very frustrating. Evening the odds just a bit could really help.
buddha0991
Member
It only appears to apply to the full auto weapons. I still see people getting headshots with the pistol, dmr and br unscoped across the map
barneystuta83
Member
While the reticule definitely does shrink, I am not sure the actual spread of Ammo does. It is hard to test in public matches, so will wait until someone can confirm either way with proper bullet spread testing.
Edit: As an aside, ADS hides the radar, just like Destiny. Means it isn't wise to walk around in ADS constantly.
Edit: As an aside, ADS hides the radar, just like Destiny. Means it isn't wise to walk around in ADS constantly.
Darryl M R
Member
It is better in the fact that allows you to be more accurate, but "method A (hipfiring)" still allows you to be more mobile and have more visibility on your screen.
So how is it a penalty? That would mean ADS is a penalty in other aspects.
Edit: Once again this isn't an argument about whether this is changing Halo from what it use to be--I don't care about what it use to be or not and I agree the series is changing.
TimeEffect
Member
There are going to be occasional moments when you see an enemy, who doesn't see you, and you manage to ADS and accurately shoot him down.
How badly does this affect TTK?
How badly does this affect TTK?
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
This is dumb. They either need to give full ADS bonus or just remove ADS completely. This half way approach makes no sense. I would just remove it. The fans clearly are against out and it just makes things seems like more of a COD tip off.
NullPointer
Member
I think the issue revolves about keeping Halo a predominantly hip-fire based game. If you add incentives to use ADS that proportion changes and then the series loses some of its identity and flow.
But while ADS might be more accurate for certain weapons that doesn't make it the better choice in most circumstances if it comes with enough costs.
If another person is using ADS and you are using hip fire, are you not affected by an accuracy penalty?
It's a penalty in the context of the game, which is what many people assumed they were talking about. It's not a penalty only in comparison to other Halo games.
Every gun in every FPS has better accuracy than the Klobb in Goldeneye, but that doesn't mean there's not penalties for hip-fire in some games.
Depends entirely on the range of engagement.
At mid range scoping basically takes the AR from being completely useless to being somewhat competent.
At close range scope is completely useless.
Darryl M R
Member
Is that person also not affected by a lack of visibility and mobility. Also if you are in a fight up close it would be senseless to go ADS.
Using your logic they will have a penalty as well, correct?
How would people feel about a lower rate of fire while ADS?
I thought ADS doesn't have a movement penalty?
I thought ADS doesn't have a movement penalty?
there's positives and drawbacks for both sides, though. yes hipfire has the accuracy penalty but more mobility options to evade
like you know every other halo since the begining, this is nothing new
truestatic
Member
You seem to be a bit confused. No one's comparing hipfire now to hipfire before. That's a meaningless comparison anyways, because both games are separate. They're talking about a hipfire penalty the same way we always talk about a hipfire penalty - in relation to ADS. If ADS has an advantage, then hipfire has a penalty. Within the context of a single game it's all relative, and arguing it's one and not the other is meaningless semantics.
I didn't think mobility was affected by ADS in Halo 5. This was the reason everyone was arguing it was a purely visual difference. Is this not the case?
gioGAF
Member
This.
stan423321
Member
That's not what they're saying. They're saying that the game may end up revolving around method B which is ultimately found less interesting to them.
Let's say we allow soccer players to carry motorbikes onto the stadium. Riding a bike has advantages (you can go fast) and disadvantages (no precise dribbling). The game may end up being balanced or not, but I don't think you would be surprised if people protested if FIFA introduced motorbikes to mainstream soccer.
RespectThySole
Member
And it's completely fine because it's only on automatics and there is descoping.
I think that's exactly what people were worried about. It completely changes the core of the Halo shooting. Before, ADS didn't affect mobility or accuracy.
Darryl M R
Member
I think you are more focused on Halo changing than the conversation at hand. Whether or not the core of Halo changes isn't the discussion. The OP mentioned whether or not hip fire now have a penalty.
That's not what this thread is about if you check the OP. This is about whether or not one method has a penalty. I completely see your argument, but that isn't the argument this thread is about. Now I will also agree with you that ADS may become popular.
Haven't seen that news, but mobility still as the ability to evade properly.
NullPointer
Member
They'll get crap for whatever decisions they make, so they might as well go with ones they think are the best.
People can spin it however they want. The simple truth is that Halo now deals with automatic gun accuracy in the same way as pretty much 100% of console shooters. I hope 343 know what they're doing, because I find it hard to believe this won't take Halo even further away from what made it good in the first place.
Hipfire has a penalty. The penalty is less accuracy than ADS. It doesn't matter if ADS has tradeoffs, that's how it is in virtually every game with ADS anyway, there is still a penalty to accuracy in hipfire.
No, that's exactly what many people are doing. And exactly what many people are worried about. Much of the concern over ADS was that hip fire would be less viable than it was before. This is untrue. The AR is just as usable at close range when firing from the hip as on previous Halos. The addition of ADS hasn't applied a penalty to hip fire, it's provided a boost to make it more effective at longer range.
It's also a perfectly legitimate comparison. This is a Halo game and as such will be compared to previous Halo games.
Darryl M R
Member
Then wouldn't the addition of any method of shooting that isn't the original create "penalties" for the old method if the new one was better in certain situations.
Thanks for referencing the tweet I was confused about what you were mentioning. Yea there is no "penalty" as in it is worse, but we all know you won't be able to turn 180 degrees and continue shooting other spartans around you as if you were hipfiring. I like to keep mobility and visibility together when discussing Halo 5's ADS. In certain situations I think it is clear that it will be better to hipfire.
But... hip fire will be less viable than before because you will be penalised for hip firing (rather than aiming down the sights) at anything above short range. Naturally this will have a huge effect on the range that confrontation tends to take place in the game, because where many weapons in classic Halo games forced you to get up close and personal, far fewer will now.
truestatic
Member
Fair enough, and I acknowledge that from a series identity standpoint, that's the case, but when talking about a penalty, or viability, hipfire now doesn't compete with hipfire before, it competes with ADS. Thus,
like... all of these posts.
ArkkAngel007
Member
I'd like to see for myself in-game, but, you know, that requires a match to actually happen.
Overall, I'm not heavily concerned as long as the execution is good and is minimal in impact in the grand scheme of the gameplay.
Overall, I'm not heavily concerned as long as the execution is good and is minimal in impact in the grand scheme of the gameplay.
CookedChocobo
Member
Don't get the anti ADS people at all. Certainly didnt break Destiny despite all the initial outcry (Not one of Destiny's problems), and it won't break Halo 5 lol.