cosmicblizzard
Banned
Point'n'click adventures were mostly built around humor not story.
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream was hilarious.
Point'n'click adventures were mostly built around humor not story.
A series like Ace Attorney that in my experience became rather worthless for a repeated playthrough, because the game is so heavy on story that if you have a good memory, you really remember most of the game and it becomes more of a drag. Games with weak stories also can get in the way of the game, creating a sense of "get on with it!" or worrying about going back to it, like the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy.Code:
I hold the view that if the gameplay is simply good enough, and potentially better than the narrative, it makes it easy to go back to it. A game with a story shoved in your face that gets in the way of the gameplay has the issue of interfering with that desire. It's far easier for me to get into Super Metroid again than it is to get into Other M, specifically for these kind of reasons.
I may also be a unique case, as my favorite genre of games are platformers.
Or they just value different things in a story/have different tastes than you. No need to be condescending about it.
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream was hilarious.
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream was hilarious.
A series like Ace Attorney that in my experience became rather worthless for a repeated playthrough, because the game is so heavy on story that if you have a good memory, you really remember most of the game and it becomes more of a drag. Games with weak stories also can get in the way of the game, creating a sense of "get on with it!" or worrying about going back to it, like the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy.Code:
I hold the view that if the gameplay is simply good enough, and potentially better than the narrative, it makes it easy to go back to it. A game with a story shoved in your face that gets in the way of the gameplay has the issue of interfering with that desire. It's far easier for me to get into Super Metroid again than it is to get into Other M, specifically for these kind of reasons.
I may also be a unique case, as my favorite genre of games are platformers.
Yes they are. When you press a button and move the joy stick there is preprogrammed animations and sound effects that let's you the player know that that action has successfully been executed. An art style is apart of letting you the player know that you're playing viewtiful joe and not modern warfare. These are aspects of the game that you are experiencing as you interact with it.Art style is not a 'feedback system'. Neither are animations or sound effects. And in no way are any of these things free from criticism on an individual basis. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
My Favourites are the first 2 Monkey Islands and the first 2 Simon the Sorcerer's as well Day of The Tentacle.
That's incredibly silly, no offense. Don't try to tell other people what to do. If someone wants to create a game with a larger focus on the story, that's their business.If your game's story is more important than the gameplay, just write a book.
Again, that's a really silly equivalence. See above.Just straight up disagree...what am i playing when story>gameplay? Am I holding a video game controller or a tv remote?
Those are really silly comparisons.Couldn't disagree more.
Chess don't need no freakin' story.
Cards don't need no freakin' story.
Mahjong don't need no freakin' story.
Sports don't need no freakin' story.
And most video games don't need no freakin' story.
Does a good story improve a good game? In most cases, probably. However, sometimes it actually just gets in the way of what you're there to do: play the game. A good example is Duck Tales Remastered, which is constantly interrupted by excessive dialogues.
Another example. Compare the works of Hideo Kojima and David Cage. Both make games that feel like interactive movies, but one of these designers knows how to design a good game, and it really shows. Besides the fact that most games get by on the strength of their gameplay despite having utterly terrible stories.
I hear The Cat Lady and Scratches are a riot.
Most of what you do in RPGs is done in order to progress through it though. Things like grinding or doing random side quests (which tell their own stories separate from the main one sometimes) fill in the gaps between the events that transpire. It may seem odd to hear it as an argument but you can't deny that one of the genre's most important aspects is the narrative. If nothing else, it gives context to your actions.
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? We should be advocating for games to merge story and gameplay seamlessly as it requires some sort of innovation in that front.
A good game can have great gameplay and uninteresting story.
A good game can have uninspired gameplay and a gripping story.
But only a great game can have great gameplay and great story.
Many people underestimate how a compelling narrative simply makes gameplay better. Context adds so much to a game, the reasons why gameplay mechanics are the way they are, and character motivations. When was the last time a game with no story or a bad narrative won the lion's share of Game of the Year Awards? It's always games like The Last of Us, Portal 2, Mass Effect 2, Red Dead Redemption, GTA4/V and so on. Games with great gameplay mechanics, coupled with a compelling narrative.
If you're making a truely compelling game these days, you gotta have both. There's really no excuse. You can make a good game without a fine story, but it's unlikely to have a lasting impact.
Couldnt agree more, TLoU and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons wouldnt have been as great as they were if they hadnt mixed the gameplay along with the narrative.Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? We should be advocating for games to merge story and gameplay seamlessly as it requires some sort of innovation in that front.
How do you explain Pokemon and Monster Hunter games then? Do you really think that they have good story? Are they not influential or having deep impact or popularity in gaming? GOTY awards can vary from place to place, NeoGAF's GOTY last year was Bayonetta 2, a game nobody plays for its story.
It's really silly of people to say gameplay > story as a general statement, but likewise it's silly to say on the contrary as a general statement
A great story will never be able to compensate for crappy gameplay.
Bayonetta 2's story is awful. But the gameplay is so damn good that it doesn't matter... at all.
I've yet to play a game where the story is good enough to make up for shitty gameplay.
Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> story
Then you have a very narrow view of the P&C genre as a whole. Grim Fandango, The Dig, Fate of Atlantis. All Lucasarts. They had humor but I would say those are games carried by their stories, not just jokes and visual gags.
And before that it was games like MGS4, The Last of Us or Mass Effect 2. Games I'm pretty sure werent being played just for there gameplay and certainly when I see them discussed its mostly not about their gameplay.
That's why I said "as a general statement", meaning that if you have such a preference, that's fine, but don't try to make it like it's some universal truth for games.I don't think it's silly at all. For me, personally, I don't care how damn good a story is - if the gameplay (which for me, is the foundation for any game) is weak, then the game fails. A good story can definitely enhance a game and make it stronger, but if the foundation of a game is weak (the gameplay), then the game falls apart.
A lot of people including myself love Destiny's gameplay but then then the story was........ well idk what the story was lol So my question is If Gamplay > Story which I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing, why do so many people feel let down by the game overall. It has IMO solid gameplay right??
That's why I said "as a general statement", meaning that if you have such a preference, that's fine, but don't try to make it like it's some universal truth for games.
I think you're a bit confused as to what a 'feedback system' is. Or at least, how the term is conventionally defined when it comes to video games. You're treating the term super literally. And even then, art style still doesn't come under that umbrella. Art style is there, whether I touch my controller or not.Yes they are. When you press a button and move the joy stick there is preprogrammed animations and sound effects that let's you the player know that that action has successfully been executed. An art style is apart of letting you the player know that you're playing viewtiful joe and not modern warfare. These are aspects of the game that you are experiencing as you interact with it.
Its not that they are opposites, I agree with that, but they are two separate variables that can be distinguished from one another. You can change one variable by way of the other(by playing the game, you can move the story along), but they are still separate entities in the end.I probably didn't articulate myself well with that last bit but I think the premise of this thread is a bit silly since it's implying that gameplay and story are opposites or at odds when they really aren't.
A good game can have great gameplay and uninteresting story.
A good game can have uninspired gameplay and a gripping story.
But only a great game can have great gameplay and great story.
Many people underestimate how a compelling narrative simply makes gameplay better. Context adds so much to a game, the reasons why gameplay mechanics are the way they are, and character motivations. When was the last time a game with no story or a bad narrative won the lion's share of Game of the Year Awards? It's always games like The Last of Us, Portal 2, Mass Effect 2, Red Dead Redemption, GTA4/V and so on. Games with great gameplay mechanics, coupled with a compelling narrative.
If you're making a truely compelling game these days, you gotta have both. There's really no excuse. You can make a good game without a fine story, but it's unlikely to have a lasting impact.
No, it doesn't. Many of your 'role playing choices' have implications on the gameplay aspects. Choosing to be a knight over a mage is the most blatantly obvious example. Two entirely different playstyles that have nothing to do with the story.Sort of defeats the whole role playing thing though.
There's no specific games this applies to. It applies to them all. You are probably making the mistake of thinking solely of combat when thinking of 'gameplay', when there's a lot more to it than that. For instance, when I am having a great time just wandering about on my own in Skyrim, that is gameplay. I am 'playing' the game there.What games do you mean specifically, so I can get a better picture. Lord knows I would never play an RPG just for its gameplay (dont say Dark Souls).
Sadly, I have debated with people who actually think gameplay is everything that matters. There was also one person who specifically said games shouldn't have any cutscenes at all.I don't think anyone is saying that as being a universal truth, or at least I don't think or hope anyone is saying that. Bottom line is there is no right/wrong answer here. It all boils down to personal preference is the way I see it.
How do you explain Pokemon and Monster Hunter games then? Do you really think that they have good story? Are they not influential or having deep impact or popularity in gaming? GOTY awards can vary from place to place, NeoGAF's GOTY last year was Bayonetta 2, a game nobody plays for its story.
Miyamoto isn't opposed to story, he's opposed to cutscenes. He wants the player to be in control at all times. But you can still have a lot of story elements without having tons of dialog and cutscenes. Super Metroid and the Portal games are good examples. It's not the type of story that you get in novels or movies, but video games are pretty singular their ability to build a world and make you feel like you're in it. Video games excel at building tone and setting.
I agree with you with visual novels, where the number one most important thing is good writing. But when you really boil it down, visual novels are just value-added books. They aren't really taking advantage of the benefits of their medium.
I think you're a bit confused as to what a 'feedback system' is. Or at least, how the term is conventionally defined when it comes to video games. You're treating the term super literally. And even then, art style still doesn't come under that umbrella. Art style is there, whether I touch my controller or not.
Story can be a feedback system, though.
IIts not that they are opposites, I agree with that, but they are two separate variables that can be distinguished from one another. You can change one variable by way of the other(by playing the game, you can move the story along), but they are still separate entities in the end.