GeordieMark
Member
No they don't. In fact it is quite a rare quality.
That's why he has had two very successful studios and sold numerous millions of games.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Molyneux can't keep his promises part ??: Godus Kickstarter edition
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
No they don't. In fact it is quite a rare quality.
That's why he has had two very successful studios and sold numerous millions of games.
Pinko Marx
Banned
I'm not knocking the man's business sense. It's his games and his lies that suck. And yes, lies. He knows the reputation he holds, and he still does this shit. He hasn't dialed it back at all. He knows what he's doing.
GeordieMark
Member
Look at his back catalogue, from Bullfrog and Lionhead.
Syndicate, Dungeon Keeper, Magic Carpet, Populus, Black and White, The Movies, Fable...
I wouldn't call that a list of 'bad' games.
Like I say, if you knew anything about him you would know that they aren't lies. He genuinely wants to make good on his promises. It drives the people who work for him crazy.
Ingueferroque
Banned
He has done more good to the industry than bad. Even if that was over 10 years ago.
It's not a list of bad games, but he's released nothing in the past 15 years that justifies his reputation as a visionary counted among the best game designers. Black & White is frequently on "most overrated games of all time" lists, The Movies was already a disappointment at launch and Fable was also nothing more than a pretty good action rpg that never lived up to its potential. Instead he's become famous for empty promises, underdelivering and talking a whole lot of nonsense. And he seems to be completely unable to change, since it happens again and again and again. I really wanted to believe in him when founded 22 Cans and launched the Godus kickstarter, but at this point I don't see any reason to ever give him even the benefit of doubt again.
I agree.
Good execution has more worth in the long run than good ideas. It separates the professionals from the students.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Syndicate? Populous? Theme Park? Dungeon Keeper? Get out. He will always be one of the greats.
An incredible legacy.
Learn to read?
aiat_gamer
Banned
As compared to those who are not genuine in their efforts. Hey guy it is the thought that counts, not the final product...! Jesus man, just stop.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Oh I read.
Just because he made these games over 15 years ago doesnt make him any less of a visionary, revolutionary game designer.
His classics have afffected the industry, influenced and inspired gamers and game designers to this day. And those ripple effects will not go away, even if he keeps making f2p trash for the next 5 years.
GeordieMark
Member
Muhammad Ali hasn't had a boxing match in the last 30 years, yet he is still considered to be a boxing great.
What I respect about him is that he isn't satisfied to trot out the same kind of games we have seen a million times before. He wants to do new things and create new experiences. For that reason I will defend him, even if he does come up short.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Yep, good example. I wanted to bring up Carmack, but the man is still doing great stuff behind the scenes.
GeordieMark
Member
The thought is what pushes the industry forward. Of course the final product counts, and he has delivered many great games too.
I never said other were not genuine. You 'just stop'.
Icyflamez96
Member
People still team up with Molyneux!
I bet this is the inside of his companies office.
I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean but lol
Hey man, I remember the movies being pretty sweet.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Muhammed Ali is a terrible analogy. Boxing is something old people can't do. Old people can make games tho and plenty still do.
He's also not the only one trying to create new experiences. But he is the only one with his reputation. Molyneux deserves no pass for talking all that good stuff and not delivering. He's like the boyfriend that promises to clean up his act and the 2 months later he's back at the strip club. Molyneux is the embodiment of failed new year's resolutions, "I totally gunna hit the gym this year and get my beach body on! No one is gonna stop me!" Good intentions only mean so much when none of those intentions have been made good on.
aiat_gamer
Banned
Has been irrelevant for a long time now, what he is doing now does not somehow relate to what he was doing before. All he does now is over-promise and not deliver. Hell he is not bigger than John Carmack and that dude is practically out of video games...you either get with the times or vanish. Right now Peter needs to vanish.
aiat_gamer
Banned
Man I love the enthusiasm, I really do. But there are tons more indie developers out there who are actually delivering amazing and ground breaking games, why don't you send your love their way?
GeordieMark
Member
The fact is Peter has been behind more good games in his lifetime than most designers can even dream about. That is indisputable. There are very few who have come up with more great games than Molyneux. Most are one hit wonders at best.
I can't believe the lack of respect for him on here. I can only assume there are s lot of younger gamers who just don't know how much he has achieved
Oh I do respect plenty of other devs, indie and otherwise. They get plenty of love and money from me. That doesn't mean I have to stop respecting an industry great.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Theme Park, Black and White, and Dungeon Keeper are all amazing games. Awesome. Totally worth all the praise they receive. The Fable series is nothing more than a serviceable wRPG-lite at best.
Molyneux has not done anything worth praising or defending since. He hyped up his weird mobile game to be some life changing experience and then the prize underneath turned out to be getting to be a god in a game that HE'S NOT EVEN GOING TO BE WORKING ON ANYMORE. A game that's being made due to FAN FUNDING. People spent money to see this game made and Molyneux is not even on the project anymore! The game isn't it when they said it would be AND it's missing promised features AND the guy that made the game possible in the first place is working on some other project that's I'm sure he'll hype up as life changing and will be just as mundane as the rest of his recent work.
You're a fan of Molyneux. That's cool, I got nothing against that. He's made good games and if you enjoy even his modern work then more power to you. But this Godus shenanigans deserves no benefit of the doubt. This isn't a normal case where he's spending a publishers money. These are his fans he mislead,and that is completely unforgivable.
Heres a quote by him from Tech Radar about the Kickstarter.
Some might call it "over promising", others might call it it "saying stuff you have no intention of delivering or no way of making happen in order to gain money", others might just call it "lying".
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
The guy continuously over promises and under delivers. He deserves no benefit of the doubt from anyone and anyone that wants to try and defend him is delusional.
More_Badass
Member
In light of this recent news, that's pretty dickish.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm a big advocate for Kickstarters. Hell, I did the 2014 and 2015 Kickstarter threads. I imagine for devs, it can be tough to decide on feasible stretch goals and the most optimal amounts, as not to bloat their project too much.
There's a big difference between presenting reasonable goals and throwing out promises to intice people.
I'm still upset over some game, where you had a pet monster or something and was supposed to have awesome AI and would learn when you smacked or spanked the - just looked it up it's Black & White. This game SUCKED and was the trend of hype and not delivering that I jumped off of long time ago.
"Critics initially awarded Black & White with high praise, averaging 90% at both Metacritic and GameRankings, based on preliminary gameplay.[4][5] Some critics, after spending more time reviewing the game, altered their judgment: Black & White was selected by GameSpy as the most overrated game of all time in an article published in September 2003, who cited a lack of true interaction with the game's townspeople and poor use of the much-lauded creatures among reasons the game ultimately disappointed" - WIKI
"Critics initially awarded Black & White with high praise, averaging 90% at both Metacritic and GameRankings, based on preliminary gameplay.[4][5] Some critics, after spending more time reviewing the game, altered their judgment: Black & White was selected by GameSpy as the most overrated game of all time in an article published in September 2003, who cited a lack of true interaction with the game's townspeople and poor use of the much-lauded creatures among reasons the game ultimately disappointed" - WIKI
GeordieMark
Member
Says you. He's delivered more than most devs will in two lifetimes.
Purple Cheeto
Member
This is the only way a Peter Molyneux and Kickstarter combo could end.
At least people are starting to learn not to trust hacks like Molyneux, Tim Schafer and Inafune.
At least people are starting to learn not to trust hacks like Molyneux, Tim Schafer and Inafune.
LumpOfCole
Member
The absurdity of Godus is compounded by that Curiosity reward. Curiosity was a monetary effort that had the mystery grand prize that was revealed to be a player having certain control of Godus features. The fact that Godus underdelivers on both its entertainment and its crowd-funded promises retroactively makes Curiosity the worst game ever made.
Frank Herbert wrote some of my favorite books. His Dune series is excellent but people still have to recognize that he went batshit insane after God-Emperor of Dune. Just because someone has an excellent legacy should not let them get away with shit like this. Just because he made Dungeon Keeper doesn't excuse the fact that he lied on this kickstarter. Also humans add weight to the most current actions of a company or person when making decisions about them. As such of course his later games are going to overwrite his earlier ones.
outunderthestars
Banned
Whatever talent that man has seems to have long since passed. He is the George Lucas of gaming.
Leafhopper
Banned
Yes it was reached.
Not to mention this.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I think Molyneux was a little disillusioned by the person who won it. He only downloaded the game an hour before he won and he also had never played any of Molyneux's games. He listed his favourite games as "Halo 3, Dead Space 3, Assassin's Creed, Battlefield 3, and Portal 2" which are probably a bit away from the sort of person Molyneux hoped for.
BibiMaghoo
Member
If an artist creates 10 masterpiece works, then for the rest of his days makes 20 average or poor works, is he a poor artist?
I'm not so sure. This man has undeniably made many masterpiece works, that have changed the industry. Making some shit games doesn't mean he has no talent, assuming he even worked on the last two games at all, instead of just running the business side. The best games to his name he actually worked on as a programmer or lead.
CecilRousso
Member
Schafer delivers. Don't be that guy.
The thing is, this time he did. He more or less admitted, even though he didn't need to since all the evidence pointed to it anyway.
This project is different from the others, since they took money from the backers and did something other then promised for them. It would have been one thing if he only failed, but this is very close to being a scam; they took money for a pitched game, did a F2P iOS game for them, and then left the project to a new team to try and salvage it, while him and other moved on to other things.
ZeroMaverick
Member
Man, that cube had so much potential.
So lame.
So lame.
outunderthestars
Banned
I would argue that the person then was a great artist whose output declined over the years.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
When can I get a refund?
BobTheFork
Member
I never heard the promises for Fable before I bought it.
I also never heard them for 2 and 3 since I never played those.
I wasn't in on the joke about this promises for a long time.
What have always felt is Peter's tendency to just sweep his last game under a rug and swear that his next game will bring 'unrivaled, unfelt, unbelievable emotional something' that 'you've never even dreamed of something someday etc'
Do you think any of it registers with the man? Is he is do-fucking excited all the time that he doesn't think about it or does he really want to distance himself from everything he works on after the fact?
I also never heard them for 2 and 3 since I never played those.
I wasn't in on the joke about this promises for a long time.
What have always felt is Peter's tendency to just sweep his last game under a rug and swear that his next game will bring 'unrivaled, unfelt, unbelievable emotional something' that 'you've never even dreamed of something someday etc'
Do you think any of it registers with the man? Is he is do-fucking excited all the time that he doesn't think about it or does he really want to distance himself from everything he works on after the fact?
CecilRousso
Member
About 1-2 years ago, if you were lucky.
About the Lionhead games: I don't know personally about Black and White, but The Movies and Fable are pretty rough experiences that also had unfulfilled promises. Especially Fable, that is pretty much THE thing that started this ball rolling.
The classics that he was involved with, the ones that made him the celebrated figure, was with Bullfrog, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to assume that there was incredible talent there and it wasn't just Peter that made those games.
How has this not happened yet?
I'll try to get to this after i am done with work if no one else has. Lol... Work... keeping me from what really is important.
semiconscious
Member
exactly. & there's no shame in this...
but if, following one compromised effort after another, the artist continues to promise 'the next time it'll be different', then there's room for a certain amount of revulsion. & pity...
iow, with his current track record, he should, at the very least, just shut up & let his future work speak for itself...
And I can't believe how you seem unable to accept that whatever his achievements in the 90's were, it has since been followed by a decade and a half of failure to deliver and ouright lies.
I loved Syndicate. I loved populous. Dungeon Keeper was freaking brilliant. And I will forever give him credit for being a part of the process of bringing those games to life.
That doesn't mean I'm willing to overlook Black and White (the last Molyneux game I personally bought) and everything that has followed since. The man has become a con-artist instead of a visionary and I feel no need to support the man who he has become. 90's Molyneux is a legend. Current day Molyneux is simply not trustworty.
Who knows, maybe one day his brilliance will return in full and he will deliver a game that fills out the promises made. Maybe it will not. But he won't see my support as a consumer of games 'till he does.
Ali hasn't boxed in 30 years. Exactly.
Molyneux has made a bunch of great games in the past (Populous, Dungeon Keeper, Theme Park, Syndicate), if he had retired after Dungeon Keeper the comparison could hold ground.
However he kept going and kept underdelivering: Black & White, Fable, Project Milo, Curiosity, Godus. None of these delivered what he promised.
That's akin to Ali not retiring and losing every subsequent match he fought.
Molyneux is tainting his own myth, actually as of now he probably made more average underdelivering and underwhelming games than actual great ones.
Some might call it fraud.
Oh Molyneux you poor soul! The rules are really harsh on kickstarter that's right, because you don't get to keep the money people donated to you, since there wasn't enough interest in your unbacked promises, so you overpromise shit just to get the money. Such a harsh world you live in.
Molyneux has made a bunch of great games in the past (Populous, Dungeon Keeper, Theme Park, Syndicate), if he had retired after Dungeon Keeper the comparison could hold ground.
However he kept going and kept underdelivering: Black & White, Fable, Project Milo, Curiosity, Godus. None of these delivered what he promised.
That's akin to Ali not retiring and losing every subsequent match he fought.
Molyneux is tainting his own myth, actually as of now he probably made more average underdelivering and underwhelming games than actual great ones.
Some might call it fraud.
Oh Molyneux you poor soul! The rules are really harsh on kickstarter that's right, because you don't get to keep the money people donated to you, since there wasn't enough interest in your unbacked promises, so you overpromise shit just to get the money. Such a harsh world you live in.
radioactivez0r
Member
Surely this happened when he had publishers as well, right?
BibiMaghoo
Member
He used to put his own money into his games. So there is that.
Scully Scully Scoo
Member
lmao this is hilarious. anyone who supports this clown deserve what they get at this point