• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The Trial Of Peter Molyneux by RockPaperShotgun

My only issue with the aggression level of the interview is that it's seem to taken some attention away from the actual issue at hand. This thread is evident of some of that.

It's possible for the interview to have gotten the same information (or lack thereof, given the subject is Molyneux LYING) and created discussion without being distracted by the tone of the interview itself.

I'm not saying the interviewer should have been NICE, per se. It's just that there's a middleground between kissing a dev's ass and kicking them in the balls, and the interview would have produced more productive results (or at least, fewer unproductive reactions) if the interviewer had found that middleground.
 

Megatron

Member
RPS: But you got more than you asked–

Peter Molyneux: We could have gone and we were asked to by publishers to publish the Steam version, but we turned that down. The economics of doing Godus, unfortunately Kickstarter didn’t raise enough money. Now the trouble is with Kickstarter, you don’t really fully know how much money you need and I think most people who do Kickstarter would agree with me here. You have an idea, you think you need this much, but as most people will say with Kickstarter, if you ask for too much money up front because of the rules of Kickstarter, it’s very, very hard to ask for the complete development budget.

Lol. So what he is saying here is, the rules of kickstarter say if you don't meet your goal you get nothing, so they deliberately asked for less money than they knew they needed so they could keep whatever money they did get. but sure, he has never lied. [eyeroll]
 
Read some of the interview earlier this morning. I really don't understand what Walker was thinking, it read like a Fox News interview transcript. And I think he could have gotten the same kind of answers without being a huge ass about it.

Generally I'm really into RPS, but I'd be really surprised anyone accepts Walker's interview requests in the future.
 
The answer to an overly cozy press is not an equally antagonistic press.

What is the answer then? It's very hard to have moderation in games journalism considering a good chunk of games are bought and sold on hype.

Recent example has to be Bloodborne.
 
Bravo to RPS for this interview. This is 60 Minutes quality stuff. Real gaming journalism and hard hitting questions that need to be asked.

The industry is definitely maturing. This kind of interview would never have happened years ago. Can you imagine EGM doing an interview like this in 1995?

As for the developers who are upset over this article, they have been put on notice. If you are involved in unethical business practices your going to be called on it.
 

Freeman

Banned
Taking a risk in KS? Are you fucking kidding me? Have you followed his career at all? Every single game he's released in the last what 10 or 15 years has been sold on him completely overhyping features that were half baked or just out right missing. Get out of here with this garbage. This KS campaign is not an isolated incident. This was a long time coming and the interviewer didn't go hard enough in my opinion.
I have no interest to discuss with you if can't show some common courtesy.
 

Pappasman

Member
I don't read RPS but I thought that interview was as harsh as it needed to be. I can understand some of the backlash and it does go a bit too far in places, but overall I thought it was really interesting.
 

Alienous

Member
In the absence of others asking the hard-hitting questions I think a stern interview was somewhat of a necessity, and John Walker provided that.

It isn't particularly comfortable but it doesn't have to be. Walker had questions he wanted to have answered, and an interviewee who was doing a good job of dodging and deflecting those questions. A hostile interview is a natural consequence of that.
 

arkon

Member
Yes. And he started the interview by asking if Peter was a pathological liar.

That sets a very specific tone early on.

The likelihood is that Peter is an overly ambitious guy who thinks he can deliver more than he is capable of doing. Instead of trying to understand what went wrong with Godus, what is being worked on, why things changed, why he was wrong, why he stated things that didn't turn out to be true he starts up by framing the entire conversation with a question that makes Peter the villain.

Journalism is about getting to the truth. Coming out swinging with a pre-formed opinion and calling it a "trial" means that this "journalist" wasn't interested in finding out the truth, he was interested in making a case for his pre-formed point. It's bad journalism.

Only the OP called it a trial. As far as I can see that word isn't mentioned once in the actual RPS article, so it shouldn't be attributed to Walker.
 
I have a hard time understanding why more people complain about a possibly-unprofessional interview than they do about the hype campaigns and PR-dictated preview blowouts that drive so much of video game coverage even today.

Well, for one, I highly doubt it's more people complaining overall. It just appears that way in the moment because this story has everyone's attention. But it's pretty clear that most people find journalists being in the pocket of publishers universally distasteful, while there is a sizable portion of people in support of unprofessional interviews - just not in the actual development community.

And why unprofessional interviews are so bad is that ... we don't actually need to talk to you. There's enough journalists who will gladly just run our marketing materials and collect their advertising revenue. And until that changes, publishers (and by extension, developers) hold pretty much all the power. So when a journalist comes out swinging, and does so in a particularly aggressive and accusatory way, that turns the entire development community away from giving interviews and speaking freely to the press and the community. And that, was the only real area of games journalism that still had the opportunity to get some real journalistic work done.

You recently ran a piece about layoffs in the industry, where developers gave you some pretty damning stories that - if made public with their real names - would likely get them blackballed from the industry. Now, if you - very unprofessionally - released your sources names, you would never get another developer to ever speak to you about anything ever again.

Now, of course, leaking sources and running an accusatory interview are nowhere near the same in terms of ethics violations - but the reaction and outcome is likely going to be the same - at least for John Walker. There is no doubt this will lead to more tight-lipped developers (for a time) and less actual decent journalism as you are forced to run all those PR-dictated previews because developers are afraid you are going to try to character-assassinate them publicly.

And this isn't just hyperbole talking. Having worked in the industry, I know that when a press outlet gives us a particularly bad interview or displays particularly lacking professionalism - we stop talking to them. I'm sure you've run into this on your end as well. That helps no one. And that's why this interview is actually more harmful than good.
 
What is the answer then? It's very hard to have moderation in games journalism considering a good chunk of games are bought and sold on hype.

Recent example has to be Bloodborne.

Any of the other interviews from John Walker where he hasn't asked if the subject thinks he has a form of mental illness right off the bat?
 

jwhit28

Member
I don't see what was unprofessional about the interview. He asked the questions the backers that just helped finance his game would ask him. It's not something the interviewer made up. When Molyneux opens his mouth people that know his work treat every word like it's coming from a Snake Oil salesman. If Molyneux didn't know that the interviewer made it clear, asked how he felt about that, and Molyneux's answer was prove it so the interviewer did.
 
I've read so many posts on here excusing PM's nonsense as 'ambition' or 'enthusiasm' ignoring the multiple tales from ex-Bullfrog devs (Syndicate would let you watch DVDs on the in game billboards), ex-Lionhead devs (the Movies will auto write sequels for your movies) and Peter himself (I've said things to stop journalists falling asleep) where he has outright told people the opposite of that which he knows to be true. How is that not lying? At what point do we stop giving credence to a person that regularly and deliberately deceives us?

I'm all for creative people taking risks and shooting for the moon but PM isn't just suffering a veracity deficit in the early planning stages of projects, he deceives people all the way down. The only honesty he displays is in those interviews where he discusses his 'over-enthusiasm' for his last title to hype his new one.

He is ultimately a business man who has chosen to take a PC kickstarter (remember he got on stage with JW at the PC Rezzed show to discuss his PC title) and develop a lucrative mobile title. Furthermore he took the 'winner' of his last mobile title and promised them a 'life-changing' experience in his next title while engineering a scenario where he has to pay out precisely $0.00 while still pretending to PocketGamer that moneys for the winner were 'accruing'. So now that he has earned 'tens of millions' by his own admission from the mobile Godus is he planning on throwing the PC KS backers a bone by developing the PC title? Is he fuck he's off to a new project and until this attention he wasn't even pretending to be sorry about it either. Hell the ex-intern who is in charge of Godus has been the only honest person in this whole mess and has straight out said that a significant portion of the features PM promised are not happening because 22 cans resources are elsewhere now.

As for the tone it was very confrontational and I can only surmise that after years of hearing PM's vague waffle JW felt the need to pierce that to get actual answers out. I think he achieved that as in several places his robustness forced PM into contradicting himself. That did not happen in the Guardian interview where the only sign of the man's amazing unfamiliarity with the truth is the foot note where the author expresses shock that his 'last ever' interview is one of at least three last ever interviews.

Is this a cultural thing I wonder between the US and the UK and Ireland? Vincent Brown is an Irish journalist known for his confrontational style also so this doesn't seem as rude to me as it clearly is for others here. Not everyone likes VB but his interviews often wind up revealing truths that playing the polite conversational tennis that often passes for modern interviewing do not.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Lol. So what he is saying here is, the rules of kickstarter say if you don't meet your goal you get nothing, so they deliberately asked for less money than they knew they needed so they could keep whatever money they did get. but sure, he has never lied. [eyeroll]

Most projects have to do this and then hope that you get to the actual funding goal.

I asked for 30K on a board game that I knew needed 60K+ to actually deliver. I knew it was a risk, but had other forms of funding as a fail-safe if the project didn't get where it needed to get. He had to go to a publisher when it became clear he needed additional funds. That is more reasonable than just stopping production.

Peter has actually been really open about the fact that he feels Kickstarter is an issue for a game in the early stages of development because too much can change and the Kickstarter model incentivizes you to make giant promises.

Peter has a lot of shortcomings, but I think in this instance he's right. Going to KS with an idea is a problem because that idea might not work and things will have to change. He made the right decision, which is not to hold yourself to early promises if it is detrimental to the overall project.

His problem being that a man already prone to overly ambitious promises was unleashed on a platform that encourages just that. I'm not saying Peter didn't deserve to be asked these questions, but the interview wasn't interested in his answers so much as making a point.
 
Well, that's not entirely true.

It depends on the situation and the culture of the interviewee's organisation/representatives. John probably wouldn't have kicked off an interview with Josh Holmes, for example, in that way—as much as he might like to, for the reason you mention.

Similarly, John isn't going to go down a PR-friendly route with Peter. It wouldn't make sense. But it also depends on the approach of the journalist. You wouldn't expect Paxman, for example, to conduct a pre-approved interview. Powerful interviewing styles, like these, command influence and—despite what some might think—are of mighty value to PR peeps when managed well.

I'm telling you—flat-out— Molyneux or a representative let it go on. That's not a normal situation.

That speaks to an openness on the part of Molyneux' camp, because most of the time, anybody else would've closed up shop.

I don't want people to think journalists can be that adversarial to interviewees all the time, because it's not a correct view of reality.
 

brian!

Member
it's not about being cozy or antagonistic for me
like an outlet is obviously allowed to proceed in a way that they believe is meaningful to them

it's the concentration on and characterization of larger than life figures rather than awful systemic things that get glossed over constantly by ppl who read and write gaming newz

and ofc gaming news sitez also have their own bottom line to consider, need clicks, they are a business, etc.

there is a pretty big dissonance in what a lot of ppl expect from ppl in the gaming business (journalism, publishing, whatever) and what the reality of it is
 
Bravo to RPS for this interview. This is 60 Minutes quality stuff. Real gaming journalism and hard hitting questions that need to be asked.

The industry is definitely maturing.
This kind of interview would never have happened years ago. Can you imagine EGM doing an interview like this in 1995?

As for the developers who are upset over this article, they have been put on notice. If you are involved in unethical business practices your going to be called on it.

...?
 
Call Molyneux incompetent all you like, but when you call him malicious, I object. Everything I've seen and heard of him indicates he's got the enthusiasm & naivety of a little kid. He's not trying to scam anyone. Someone with ill intent would have heard that first insult and immediately called the whole interview off.

This is a hit piece, and is no more journalism than those. It also isn't "possibly-unprofessional". It is insanely unprofessional, and it's not journalism.

The answer to an overly cozy press is not an equally antagonistic press.

Exactly. The #1 goal of this interview wasn't to uncover the truth or shine a light on this struggling project or developer. If those had been the goal, the tone would have been drastically different and the interviewer would have tried to get him to open up instead of immediately shut down. No, the goal of this was to drive as much traffic to RPS & towards John Walker's personal brand as possible.
 

The_Dama

Member
Someone has the balls to ask hard question in the industry. They asked him questions and backed them up with quotes Peter was on record with.

I wish someone would call 343 on on MCC.
 

Wereroku

Member
Well, for one, I highly doubt it's more people complaining overall. It just appears that way in the moment because this story has everyone's attention. But it's pretty clear that most people find journalists being in the pocket of publishers universally distasteful, while there is a sizable portion of people in support of unprofessional interviews - just not in the actual development community.

And why unprofessional interviews are so bad is that ... we don't actually need to talk to you. There's enough journalists who will gladly just run our marketing materials and collect their advertising revenue. And until that changes, publishers (and by extension, developers) hold pretty much all the power. So when a journalist comes out swinging, and does so in a particularly aggressive and accusatory way, that turns the entire development community away from giving interviews and speaking freely to the press and the community. And that, was the only real area of games journalism that still had the opportunity to get some real journalistic work done.

You recently ran a piece about layoffs in the industry, where developers gave you some pretty damning stories that - if made public with their real names - would likely get them blackballed from the industry. Now, if you - very unprofessionally - released your sources names, you would never get another developer to ever speak to you about anything ever again.

Now, of course, leaking sources and running an accusatory interview are nowhere near the same in terms of ethics violations - but the reaction and outcome is likely going to be the same - at least for John Walker. There is no doubt this will lead to more tight-lipped developers (for a time) and less actual decent journalism as you are forced to run all those PR-dictated previews because developers are afraid you are going to try to character-assassinate them publicly.

And this isn't just hyperbole talking. Having worked in the industry, I know that when a press outlet gives us a particularly bad interview or displays particularly lacking professionalism - we stop talking to them. I'm sure you've run into this on your end as well. That helps no one. And that's why this interview is actually more harmful than good.

Naw he doesn't need them either. He covers PC games he could just focus on Indie devs who will have no problem talking to him.

Call Molyneux incompetent all you like, but when you call him malicious, I object. Everything I've seen and heard of him indicates he's got the enthusiasm & naivety of a little kid. He's not trying to scam anyone. Someone with ill intent would have heard that first insult and immediately called the whole interview off.

Exactly. The #1 goal of this interview wasn't to uncover the truth or shine a light on this struggling project or developer. If those had been the goal, the tone would have been drastically different and the interviewer would have tried to get him to open up instead of immediately shut down. No, the goal of this was to drive as much traffic to RPS & towards John Walker's personal brand as possible.

How is it not scamming. He promised more features than he could realistically deliver because he knew he needed to so it would get funded. It would be like you promising your game would run on a genesis and letting backers pledge for it them going onto Kotaku and saying, "Sorry our ambition were a little too high for a Genesis but it's still being worked on." Yeah it's not abandoned but it will probably never come out.
 

Draconian

Member
Bravo to RPS for this interview. This is 60 Minutes quality stuff. Real gaming journalism and hard hitting questions that need to be asked.

The industry is definitely maturing. This kind of interview would never have happened years ago. Can you imagine EGM doing an interview like this in 1995?

As for the developers who are upset over this article, they have been put on notice. If you are involved in unethical business practices your going to be called on it.

lol if you think any developer that RPS wants to confront is going to give them 5 seconds after reading this interview.
 
Just thought I'd share:

g9mzHjg.png


So far it seems like a pretty brutal interview, but I've not even scratched the surface. This thing is looooooong.
 
Exactly. The #1 goal of this interview wasn't to uncover the truth or shine a light on this struggling project or developer.

There is no truth to uncover or shine a light on. Everyone knows exactly what happened: Molyneux over sold and under delivered on yet another project.

If you don't know who Molyneux is then I can see the confusion, but everyone knows Molyneux because he has been doing this for over 10 years.

I give Molyneux the benefit of the doubt in that he's just incompetent and not malicious.
 
Naw he doesn't need them either. He covers PC games he could just focus on Indie devs who will have no problem talking to him.

Given how many developers in general are annoyed at RPS at the moment, I could see some not agreeing to talk to them in the future, even indie developers who need the exposure.
 

Flavius

Member
If this became a trend and it started popping up all over in interviews it'd be one thing, but it's a single instance of the biggest snakeoil salesman in the industry being called out on his bullshit. What, are some people terrified that their ass is going to get called out for something wrong that they've done too? Frankly, I'd rather that be a thing than all the useless puff pieces we get that do nothing but blow smoke up our asses with questions and answers that are cherry-picked by PR people, which is the vast majority of everything we see now a days.

Even once is too much. Nothing PM has done excuses someone acting like an unprofessional jackass.

Implying this is the standard conduction of interviews and not just a special case for a special interviewee known to be able to perpetually spin BS with no end.

This is all about PM. Let's not pretend this interviewer would have taken this approach on your usual industry member.

Special cases might exist, but those would all be beyond the scope of the interview...and would never justify 'reeling it back in' and slapping it on your site for all to see.

Again, this has ZERO to do with PM. This has everything to do with professionalism, or the distinct lack thereof. Cutting off the interviewee? Audibly laughing at the responses? Aggressive tone and language?

You don't cast your professionalism aside when you're dealing with anyone. You never 'play down' to their level, unless it's personal. And if it is personal, then have the sense to avoid trying to spin it in that direction.

Poor interview. Poor editing. The egg here is squarely on RPS' face, not Molyneux's.
 

Axass

Member
Again the intereview was definitely harsh, but I think the only real misstep Walker made is starting with a very antagonistic question. The interview needed to be harsh because you can't keep sending home the idea that lying through your teeth to get people's money is ok in this industry. And it's not just Peter doing it.

Wow, the developer publisher community really doesn't like this. On facebook and twitter several of them are having meltdowns. I'm not exactly sure why either. They feel its an attack on their entire career.

Again, they're so used to journalism being a PR branch that their heads are melting at this harsh approach being possible. They fear it may happen to them as well.

Jesus Christ, I feel sorry for the guy :(

Peter Molyneux and Kickstarter was a bad idea from the get-go... but anyway, he has an enormous legacy and did make some great games, especially in the early 90s. I feel bad that he's being shit on today. Maybe a lot of you will say that he's deserved it after all his craziness, but really, just let the dude make his games and when he's talking big the next time, just remember his history.

I for one hope he's going to make another great game at some point.

That's fine and dandy until he willingly screws over consumers who gave him money.
 
I have a hard time understanding why more people complain about a possibly-unprofessional interview than they do about the hype campaigns and PR-dictated preview blowouts that drive so much of video game coverage even today.
Because one is a character assassination of someone who makes games I enjoy and the other are fluff pieces I don't pay much attention to.
 

inky

Member
My only issue with the aggression level of the interview is that it's seem to taken some attention away from the actual issue at hand. This thread is evident of some of that.

Because some people want to make it about that.

There are tons of questions and answers here about other topics (budgeting, physical backer rewards, PC version being abandoned, forums, contest winners being forgotten, publisher deals, etc.) that run outside his constant game-features over-promising and under-delivering. Things that wouldn't have got an answer otherwise. Even when presented with these issues, PM is still making weak excuses, acting as someone who isn't in charge and hasn't be on top of all of it with his time and experience as a game developer.

But people ignore what that says because the tone is harsh, and some even are trying to paint it as everyone now hated Molyneux's guts just because he is ambitious or other such nonsense.

Finally done reading the thing, and while I don't agree with all of what or how Walker said and asked and pressed on, it's still refreshing to see. It tells you a lot about the guy, and makes you even feel sympathetic towards him, while understanding how much bullshit he's managed to spill around without questioning himself a bit, or changing a bit.
 

Axass

Member
Because one is a character assassination of someone who makes games I enjoy and the other are fluff pieces I don't pay much attention to.

Don't you think the real character assassination has been done by Molyneux on himself over the course of these last 20 years?
 

Alienous

Member
Call Molyneux incompetent all you like, but when you call him malicious, I object. Everything I've seen and heard of him indicates he's got the enthusiasm & naivety of a little kid. He's not trying to scam anyone. Someone with ill intent would have heard that first insult and immediately called the whole interview off.

Thus the "pathological liar" introduction.

He started by asking, albeit aggressively, if Molyneux was a compulsive liar. The implication being whether or not Molyneux has control over the lies he has been caught on. It's a loaded question, and Molyneux objects, thus the interview begins on the terms of it not being a condition but something that Molyneux does intentionally.

I think he is a compulsive liar. I think that explains a lot of the things he has said. He lies because it sounds better and addresses the consequences of those lies at a later date. Of course it's just an interpretation of his actions, but it explains to me how he might non-maliciously mislead people. He has a reputation of it, and just because it isn't his intention to scam people doesn't make that an invalid statement of his actions.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
What is the answer then? It's very hard to have moderation in games journalism considering a good chunk of games are bought and sold on hype.

Recent example has to be Bloodborne.

The companies job is to market the games. Trailers, E3 coverage, and interviews are all going to be tilted towards making you excited about a game. That is there job.

The press' job is to speak honestly about a games quality and what it delivers vs. what was being sold. The problem is often that early preview coverage = big hits.

So IGN signs a deal to slowly trickle information about the game over the course of a month. This is clearly a problem. Entertainment tonight does the same thing with movie previews with exclusive production photos. Music magazines often have early listening parties for new tracks.

Journalists should say no to these sorts of previews if they want to be taken seriously (does anyone consider Entertainment Tonight or Entertainment Weekly to be good? Variety and Hollywood reporter are taken seriously because they don't play that game. The reality is a lot of video game websites survive off of cozy relationships that get them exclusive first looks, and reviews that are friendlier also help the marketing dollars so there is probably some pressure put on the editorial staff from above. This is a massive problem in a lot of forms of journalism, not just video games.

Asking hard questions when a project fails to meet expectations is certainly fair game and should be done, and this one certainly fell short and has questions that need answering. Starting it out by accusing someone of being a pathological liar is not journalism. Going after a guy personally is not journalism, it's throwing red meat at people who want to see blood, as evidenced in this thread a lot of people enjoyed eating it because "PM deserves it" or "Game journalism is too fluffy". They opened the interview by asking if he had a mental illness.

Everyone should go watch network, because this is "Howard Beale" journalism.

It's easy to think the opposite of what you don't like is good. The reality is usually somewhere in the middle ground.
 

brian!

Member
you guys have any thoughts on lasting effects from these types of interviews besides the adrenaline from the gotcha moment? I'd love to see a news organization throw out something that catches attention like this interview (tho yeah I wish it didn't take the form of one real life dood being repeatedly hammered until they are beaten into retreat), but also follow it up in depth and at length, and in a way that facilitates meaningful change, does anyone have examples of this in gaming journalism?

I wouldn't mind reading at all thoughts about kickstarter as a platform (it's really visible existence as an "alternative" to taking on a publisher) in relation to this fiasco by the same ppl doing ultra denouncing
 

watership

Member
I hope someone does a roundup of press and developer reactions to the article.

Yeah, it's going to be brutal.

https://twitter.com/notch/status/566228402357932032

Even Sterling said that the questions needed to be asked but starting off by asking PM is he had a mental illness coloured it badly at the start. Then someone said it was like a fan-boy interviewing George Lucas. Pretty much that. Anger and attack, likeminded fans cheer.
 

jpax

Member
"When did you stop beating your wife?"

Would be for Chris Brown, or would it not?

For PM however no. He has not beaten anybody. But he overpromised and "expanded" the truth for years. So the liar question was harsh and maybe stupid, but not out of context.
 

kadotsu

Banned
The fact that we are discussing the interviewer and not the interview should tell you all you need to know about the success of this piece as journalism.
 

narton

Member
So is RPS getting hammered with traffic? I tried earlier this morning and just now, and I can't connect to the link in OP. I really wanna read this.
 

Jackpot

Banned
I asked for 30K on a board game that I knew needed 60K+ to actually deliver.

That's... not a good thing. In fact it's horrible. You rely on people's charity and then deceive them? The whole point of not keeping the money if you don't hit the goal is to prevent projects from wasting backer's money on an endeavor that can't succeed. You shouldn't be trying to bypass those rules. How do you think your backers would feel if they found out they'd been taken for a ride? "Everyone else does it" is not an excuse.
 
Top Bottom