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[Tigress]

Video is reasonable. Same complaints that we have heard before. Most complaints have merit IMO.

Agreed and disagreed on the merit (well, there was one that I agreed with and disagreed with at the same time. The others I thought were pretty reasonable).

The one that was bitching about how if this was played in your formative years and you didn't learn any other more appropriate way... yeah, I agree with her. But... I don't think anyone should be playing this game in their formative years anyways and that is only one reason why (there is a lot in this game that I wouldn't want a kid to think was normal who was still forming his outlook on the world). This game shouldn't be played by anyone until they already have a good set of ethics at the very least.

I fully agree with the person who complained she wished it had a strong female character.

I would add that I wish they would also do male strippers/prostitutes. Adds in more freedom and it would to me at least fix a lot with what's wrong with GTA when it comes to portrayel of women (yes, it's a satire. But women are more treated just as objects rather than even satire. I think add in a few actual women characters that are at least as well written as the main male characters and add in male prostitutes).

(that's my take on GTA as a feminist anyways. Oh, and I love GTA V which is good cause it's been what I've been wasting time with until Witcher comes out).

 

[Kezen]

I would like to express my eternal gratitude to GTA for enraging feminists.

Thank you Mr Houser.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

That actually went better than I thought it would.

The perception of women being portrayed poorly in GTA games isn't wrong. It's only saved by the fact that most of the men are pretty much shit in them as well.

 

[Toxi]

I would like to express my eternal gratitude to GTA for enraging feminists.

Thank you Mr Houser.

Uh, maybe you should watch the video?

 

[DirgeExtinction]

It's funny they were fine with the shooting and killing, but prostitutes and strip clubs? That's disgusting!

Lol.

 

[Mr-Joker]

1. GTA doesn't represent all games on the market
2. I am pretty sure that some female gamers play GTA.
3. This seem to come off as hur hur let's laugh a male things, rather than experience the game with an open mind.

 

[FlyinJ]

I would like to express my eternal gratitude to GTA for enraging feminists.

Thank you Mr Houser.

You are going to be really disappointed when you watch the video.

Which you won't

Because that's the kind of person you are

 

[TheSpoiler]

I would like to express my eternal gratitude to GTA for enraging feminists.

Thank you Mr Houser.

Stop that.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Well the issue would be, at least for me, that it would be pretty boring to only have female characters for 18 years with the men being portrayed only as some sort of sexual objetcs and the only other men in the story being some useless and empty characters.
This is the exactly the same situation for women today and I kind of understand their problem with this game.

Two things, I'm pretty sure GTA has woman npcs who aren't prostitutes, and secondly, as others have pointed out the majority of the GTA casts are horribly written, so it wouldn't surprise me if the parallels of both of these were true in Universe B's GTA.

And even then, I wouldn't expect the game to not have female prostitutes if they had a playable female character, though perhaps not the main focus unless said character is interested in more than just men/woman. Plus on the note of a female character, I thought that already happened with GTA5, I don't know though cause I've only played Vice City, either way there would be nothing wrong with them having a female protagonist, it's just that female prostitutes somehow existing doesn't somehow make all other female characters non-existent.

From what I remember, women and men npcs are treated the same way, prostitutes which could include more men, are treated slightly different, but I don't think the game treats them like crap, though I don't know, I mean I'm pretty sure the game will try to reprimand you if you harm them.

 

[PtM]

This is the grossest shit. This doesn't provide any new meaningful insight on GTA from a feminist perspective. It's literally the most transparent effort from Buzzfeed to capitalize on the drama in the video game community for clicks.

And that is really all there is to say on the matter.

Spoiler

Except for "don't read YT comments".

Also, if it's not obvious, the kill-prostitute-get-money(-back) part was also instructed.

 

[injurai]

There's good satire and then there is GTA. If a choice would present itself that I had to choose between videogames existing or playing GTA, I would probably take the former.

You nor "feminists" get to choose what good satire is for everyone else. Also if GTA didn't exist, it's not like some equally popular but more politically correct franchise would exist in it's place.

 

[lotsofotherstuff]

Only thing that irked me a bit was the "This is the reason I hate video games" line.
Please don't put this whole art form under a GTA banner, it does so much more than just that. I mean Life is Strange for crying out loud. It's so good.
(Yes, I know I'm talking to thin air)

Otherwise, the video was fine for what it was. Most people in the comments that is being mad is probably being mad for no other reason that the title of the video.

 

[EatinOlives]

I don't know that I disagree with any of their reactions (except probably the immediate jumping to "I HATE ALL VIDEO GAMES" one, but what followed after--that this mostly perpetuates the negative stereotype of male-centered "gaming"--is pretty true. Pretty much every lay person who has never played a GTA game before has had that reaction when they get to the R-rated parts of the game. Plenty of people, regular gamers or otherwise, REALLY had a hard time with the torture mission, for instance.

So Buzzfeed was gonna Buzzfeed and funneled them into the single most sexist things in the game. I would've actually liked them to instead have them play for about 10 hours over the course of a few days as they went through a good chunk of the story mode for them to really get a feel for the game and see all the angles of sexism that the game plays up, not just the most in-your-face shock-value ones. I would've liked to have heard their opinions on all the other ways that women were portrayed poorly: Michael's daughter being a "loose" extremely spoiled brat, Michael's wife having a new affair each week, that "teen" idol you stalk who ends up being a 20-something woman (who also happens to be "loose"), and just the general tone that the whole game is male-centric. The reactions would've still been negative, mind you, but it would've at least provided the chance to analyze the sexism in the game past the "EW GROSS" initial reactions.

 

[DeadDuck144]

I would add that I wish they would also do male strippers/prostitutes. Adds in more freedom and it would to me at least fix a lot with what's wrong with GTA when it comes to portrayel of women (yes, it's a satire. But women are more treated just as objects rather than even satire. I think add in a few actual women characters that are at least as well written as the main male characters and add in male prostitutes).

This is a very interesting idea. It supports gender equality, while also presenting options for gay players. I think some of the religious/conservative crowd would be outraged with such an option though. Wouldn't doubt we'd see a few "Video Game Promotes Homosexuality" headlines.

Personally, I'd like to see the stripper/prostitute features just removed entirely, but I know they're big selling points so it's not likely to happen.

 

[Kezen]

You are going to be really disappointed when you watch the video.

Which you won't

Because that's the kind of person you are

I did watch it though.

Their reaction was somewhat rational, but I've seen many GTA "sexist" controversies where feminists made fools of themselves hence my previous comment.

Feminist salt is the best salt.

 

[Jigorath]

I did watch it though.

Their reaction was somewhat rational, but I've seen many GTA "sexist" controversies where feminists made fools of themselves hence my previous comment.

Feminist salt is the best salt.

Seriously?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Nothing is new, labelling is still toxic.


GTA has fantastic satire. There are many parts of GTA5 that made me laugh with its satire. The life invader stuff was spot, I loved all the things about middle aged men going for their egochasers while doing marathons. Everything with fame or shame on x-factor type shows. Great satire!


But yes, GTA5 like the others have a strange omission of female characters at all. There was a real possibility for all three main character

Spoiler

michaels wife, Amanda, who is just exposed as a dumb broad, franklins ex-girlfriend who appears out of nowhere. that felt awkward, and the hilarious bit with trevors mom post-credits.

If I was designing GTA6 I would love to play as a female undercover cop. Deep undercover like the scenario in sleeping dog. I see a lot of potential in playing as a female, and it would be so interesting to be on the other side of the law.

 

[Puaru1]

Buzzfeed videos are just filled the worst kind of hipsters, the blonde with the thick black rimmed glasses is one of the biggest offenders.

Watch their videos on stuff like fast food. "Like, omg, what is a Big Mac? Do people actually eat this stuff? I never eat this stuff ever, also I don't even own a TV".

 

[KazenY2J]

Have they even played GTA Online in which you can control a female character?

 

[Oogedei]

Two things, I'm pretty sure GTA has woman npcs who aren't prostitutes, and secondly, as others have pointed out the majority of the GTA casts are horribly written, so it wouldn't surprise me if the parallels of both of these were true in Universe B's GTA.

And even then, I wouldn't expect the game to not have female prostitutes if they had a playable female character, though perhaps not the main focus unless said character is interest in more than just men. Plus on the note of a female character, I thought that already happened with GTA5, I don't know though cause I've only played Vice City, either way there would be nothing wrong with them having a female protagonist, it's just that female prostitutes somehow existing doesn't somehow make all other female characters non-existent.

Well, that's not what I meant, dont get me wrong on this. There are non-prostitute NPCs, but they are boring, empty and often annoying. And of course a lot of the side characters are the same (though not all of them!), but not the main characters. They always have more complex characters, more history and more effect on the story (even some characters who are not the main protagonists). And no female was a main character so I guess that's the point.

It should've been just a thought experiment. What would the reactions of the anti-feminist gamers be like, when GTA was like that. What would the reactions be if large parts of the video gaming industry would be like today just reversed in terms of the sexes? I wouldn't like the idea of men being portrayed like females nowadays in the majority of games. It would be so boring and annoying.

That's why I understand the criticism.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Seriously?

I kinda agree with him. No girls want to go out with me no matter how much I stalk them and shut down their attempts to express themselves

 

[zma1013]

I like the one that already knows that it's a satire on American culture. She gets it. Also love the, "If I kill her I can get my money back... uhhhhhhh, that's really shitty."

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

nice... giving people 10 minutes to play the game and instruct them to do certain things to paint a picture of the whole game is like showing a sex scene (preferably Drogo raping Daenerys) from Game of Thrones and selling it as the driving force of why the series exists..

don't get me wrong.. sexism is a problem in our industry, especially when you look at some comments on the video.. but i don't much care for the Fox News type sensationalism (think Mass Effect controversy) this video is delivering.

I honestly don't see there being any difference in their views towards the game no matter how long they played it for. Most of them fell into the bracket of finding parts of the game enjoyable whilst having issues with the more sexist elements of it. Even if they played 30 hours of it, it's not going to get rid of the stupid titty bars.

It's obviously a fluff piece, but I think it does a good job that most feminists don't see videogames as irredeemable which seems to be the idea the GGers latch onto.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Michael's daughter being a "loose" extremely spoiled brat, Michael's wife having a new affair each week, that "teen" idol you stalk who ends up being a 20-something woman (who also happens to be "loose"), and just the general tone that the whole game is male-centric. The reactions would've still been negative, mind you, but it would've at least provided the chance to analyze the sexism in the game past the "EW GROSS" initial reactions.

Spoilers for the game!

Tracey acts that way because

Spoiler

her father is shit. The game goes to great lengths to push that on you. In fact, she was huddled into a private school, and eventually admits that she acts out because she's frustrated that Michael doesn't give a shit. All of this stems from Michael's midlife crisis and selfishness, preferring to act macho instead of actually being a father figure to her.

The reactions he gets when she tells him to piss off after saving her are because it's purely jolting to Tracey - her father didn't give a shit BEFORE and only cares at random intervals. This all ties into how Dad's influence the family dynamic and speaks more about Michael than Tracey.

Amanda, the wife, used to be a stripper until she met Michael. Things were good until the last decade or so, where their relationship deteriorated into bickering and fights from his drinking and slumming around town. Once again, this lack of attention and love leads her to look elsewhere, and if we are doing the counting game, Michael has probably cheated on her far more than she has.

What makes this all worse is that he treats her like property, only giving a shit when he notices a man trying to get some from her. It's incredibly poisonous to let jealously be the only time you care about your wife. That shit takes a toll, and this all stems from - you guessed it - Michael.

The smaller details are picked up in side missions and conversations, but the majority of this is right in front of your face as you progress through the story.

Damn that's a lot for GTA lore. Who gives a shit about that lol.

Anyway, GTA has a lot of issues that demean the point of the satirical elements found in the game, but it's still there. I take umbrage with no dicks or male prostitutes. That's bullshit and you know it, Rockstar.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I've never touched a GTA in my life, as far as I recall---never cared to watch my brother play them either. Part of this was because my parents were strict with M-rated games, but honestly I just never had the urge to touch them.

But I hear young guys at my work all the time talk about the games, and I don't think it's wrong to say they've got a really strong, male-based appeal that's borderline a fantasy for them---like the Fast franchise basically except even more socially irresponsible---and there's a real legitimate excitement they get from killing and stealing within the game that they deem important enough to brag about in public as an accomplishment.

I agree that I'd love to see a Grand Theft Auto in the future that's from an entirely forced female perspective---not an option, as the default character. I think two things would occur---first, I feel a ton of people would freak out because the game is no longer "relatable", and I feel it'd probably raise a lot of controversy among pundits since I feel a game with a woman who engages in all the shenanigans a usual GTA involves will bother people far more since it shakes the status quo. In the end though I think even with changed perspective, I still think men will end up being the majority player and probably find a way to appropriate it for themselves.

 

[Steel]

Well, short video. I don't disagree with them for the most part. But really, it was too short to be constructive.

 

[Oersted]

This is lame. Absolute zero insights.

I did watch it though.

Their reaction was somewhat rational, but I've seen many GTA "sexist" controversies where feminists made fools of themselves hence my previous comment.

Feminist salt is the best salt.

Do you see feminists as a problem or what is your issue?

 

[PaulExcellent]

My girlfriend once said something I found neat about the video game hate from the movement:
"If you go into something like this, you can't go in with some already-established perspective. Just sit down and experience it as it is, then go from there."
She'll call the bullshit of games out, as a ton of them are terrible in terms of women, but going and saying that GTA is all about treating women like shit or what not pisses her off.

My opinion:
There's so much in terms of character when it comes to the main characters and their personalities, the supporting cast, and how the setting affects this that basing themselves from such a short time with the game is useless. Without some time put into it, it looks like a disgusting mess. (Which, at times, is the point.)

Still, this is just a click-bait video. :/

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Feminist salt is the best salt.

I only see one person being salty. And it wasn't the feminists.

 

[CambriaRising]

Feminist salt is the best salt.

Ew, you're one of those...

 

[Messofanego]

If anyone at their staff played enough videogames, they'd hand them Saints Row 3 or 4 for good female characters and protagonists. GTA is pretty archaic in that aspect.

Why bother even doing the controversial thing you've heard about, and not just chill around on the hills or other more peaceful minigame activities? It's like those dumb Reacts videos where they're just goading for outraged reactions by making participants do the most shocking stuff. Usually nothing of meaningful value comes from these exercises, and nothing better is learned about the medium for the regular people.

 

[Toxi]

This is lame. Absolute zero insights.

Not even enough to level up with the Doll.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Yeah, telling girls to not play video games because of some clickbaity, out of context scenes (besides a few) is really funny. Buzzfeed has a very large reach, and for girls who are entering the gaming field to start a hobby, this kind of shit isn't helping. (All this said by my girlfriend).

Also, "feminist play"? Is that some sort of sacred, tiny select group of women? Because last time I checked, there are a hellvua lot of females looking for equal rights and treatment in society, and those too are feminist.

Did we watch the same video? They didn't say "girls shouldn't play games", at least one of them said they really enjoyed it. And the women in the video self identify as feminists, so the title is "feminists play GTA". This must be that manufactured outrage people are always going on about.

I did watch it though.

Their reaction was somewhat rational, but I've seen many GTA "sexist" controversies where feminists made fools of themselves hence my previous comment.

Feminist salt is the best salt.

Oh my.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I did watch it though.

Their reaction was somewhat rational, but I've seen many GTA "sexist" controversies where feminists made fools of themselves hence my previous comment.

Feminist salt is the best salt.

I honestly can't tell if you are a joke character or not.

 

[Nintendojitsu]

The discussion is not how good GTA's satirical elements are. It's that they exist and are obvious. It doesn't have to be good to be effective.

They're effective? On whom, the dimwitted and easily amused? I respect it's right to exist but I'm not going to justify it's existence as necessary just because the masses have.

 

[Ganzlinger]

The video was fine.. the girls were reasonable and I am someone who fully support GTA.

And that Amanda May Gavlick is so cuuute *-*

 

[TatteredHat]

This is why I hate Buzzfeed.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Well, that's not what I meant, dont get me wrong on this. There are non-prostitute NPCs, but they are boring, empty and often annoying. And of course a lot of the side characters are the same (though not all of them!), but not the main characters. They always have more complex characters, more history and more effect on the story (even some characters who are not the main protagonists). And no female was a main character so I guess that's the point.

It should've been just a thought experiment. What would the reactions of the anti-feminist gamers be like, when GTA was like that. What would the reactions be if large parts of the video gaming industry would be like today just reversed in terms of the sexes? I wouldn't like the idea of men being portrayed like females nowadays in the majority of games. It would be so boring and annoying.

That's why I understand the criticism.

So then have a GTA with a female protag, seems fine and a logical next step for the series. I just don't get the whole "this could make people change their view on woman as a whole" criticism, as the prostitutes aren't the only female npcs, but they just as bland as them (again I think, I don't know, only played Vice city.) If anything, GTA is acting as a teaching tool for people, especially if the the game reprimands the player for mistreating not only npcs but also prostitutes.

I mean, at least just include some male prostitutes, which I thought they already did with the expansion with the character who was gay.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I've never touched a GTA in my life, as far as I recall---never cared to watch my brother play them either. Part of this was because my parents were strict with M-rated games, but honestly I just never had the urge to touch them.

But I hear young guys at my work all the time talk about the games, and I don't think it's wrong to say they've got a really strong, male-based appeal that's borderline a fantasy for them---like the Fast franchise basically except even more socially irresponsible---and there's a real legitimate excitement they get from killing and stealing within the game that they deem important enough to brag about in public as an accomplishment.

I agree that I'd love to see a Grand Theft Auto in the future that's from an entirely forced female perspective---not an option, as the default character. I think two things would occur---first, I feel a ton of people would freak out because the game is no longer "relatable", and I feel it'd probably raise a lot of controversy among pundits since I feel a game with a woman who engages in all the shenanigans a usual GTA involves will bother people far more since it shakes the status quo. In the end though I think even with changed perspective, I still think men will end up being the majority player and probably find a way to appropriate it for themselves.

What I find interesting is how people talk about GTA. It's usually a description of how they murdered or fucked a prostitute and took their money. Not to generalize, but in my experience, it's either the more casual fans or people already off.

My more hardcore friends like to discuss the vistas, fun glitches, and spooky things they think they saw in the water. Maybe it's a matter of how much you interact with the game that determines what you see and how you play it? It's always best to give a game some time to make sure your perception isn't clouding things.

(I mean, that isn't to say I'm telling you all what you should do in GTA. Every now and then, I throw up a trainer and raise hell, but it's never been a point of discussion in the outside world. Unless my friends are reading this. Fuck)

They're effective? On whom, the dimwitted and easily amused? I respect it's right to exist but I'm not going to justify it's existence as necessary just because the masses have.

For satire to be effective, it must be understood. There's nothing that states it must be thought about, discussed, etc. It's simple, really.

And so, by that wonderful statement you just made, anyone who's gotten an ounce of GTA satire, be it Gruppe Seck or TW@T, is dimwitted and easily amused.

"If you understand what irony is, you are a moron!"

 

[Village]

They're effective? On whom, the dimwitted and easily amused? I respect it's right to exist but I'm not going to justify it's existence as necessary just because the masses have.

Not for nothing but, your argument might not do much playing the smug im better than you card.

 

[Kinyou]

No one ever talks about shooting a hot dog vendor to get your money back

 

[Tigress]

If anyone at their staff played enough videogames, they'd hand them Saints Row 3 or 4 for good female characters and protagonists. GTA is pretty archaic in that aspect.

Overall, I like GTA better. But I think it's simply cause Saint's Row is too cartoonish for me, I want something more real feeling.

But.... Saint's Row (3 at least, haven't played the others) does a lot of things right where GTA gets it wrong. And yes, how they do female characters is one (hell, the main character is written in such a way she makes a kick ass female character if you make her female. And yet they don't really change the main character's personality depending on what gender you make it. But I loved playing as that character and "being her").

I just wish we could have a GTA game that takes lessons from Saint's Row in the many things that Saint's Row does a helluva lot better (it's like SR's developers looked at what GTA did wrong and decided to show how you did it right).

 

[ANDS]

Out of context of the whole, their complaints are reasonable. The generalizations, not so much.

 

[Gestault]

They're effective? On whom, the dimwitted and easily amused? I respect it's right to exist but I'm not going to justify it's existence as necessary just because the masses have.

Satire that's merely approachable for the masses has an important role, culturally. It's social criticism that's popular for other reasons, as opposed to something that attempts the same and is valuable in theory, but won't actually disseminate in the mainstream.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I honestly do agree it might be off to say Grand Theft Auto is a "gamer problem", because it feel like every guy who plays it seems to enjoy the base elements immensely. It's like the one game I think casual people can talk about without the term "gamer" ever popping up, it's just such a big part of boyhood now it seems every dude I've run into knows what it is, and loves it because you can shoot and steal.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

No one ever talks about shooting a hot dog vendor to get your money back

This analogy doesn't work, because the criticism stems from the fact that sex workers are effectively selling access to their body rather than a separate and inanimate commodity. It would be more like being able to murder the hot dog, after licking it all over, to get your money back. Which reduces the status of sex workers in the game to that of a hot dog, where the player supplies the wiener.

 

[Jobbs]

I'm not someone who goes into games looking for things to be offended by, or checking to see if the game is pro women or not -- I'm really not -- And GTAV made me uncomfortable with its angry tone, and its portrayal of female characters and women in general. I couldn't play it (after a few hours). I had to stop. I hate the game.

 

[Fjordson]

I agree that I'd love to see a Grand Theft Auto in the future that's from an entirely forced female perspective---not an option, as the default character. I think two things would occur---first, I feel a ton of people would freak out because the game is no longer "relatable".

I remember this happened when GTA had its first black protagonist in San Andreas. I saw countless forum disucssion on GameFAQs back then about how people didn't like the "gangster dialogue" or that they couldn't enjoy the game because they couldn't relate to a black guy.

That's one of the reasons I think we'll see a female main character in GTA in the future. Also possibly a gay one at some point. This is just an assumption on my part since I obviously don't know the Houser brothers personally, but I think they enjoy going against the grain.

 

[Squire]

I did watch it though.

Their reaction was somewhat rational, but I've seen many GTA "sexist" controversies where feminists made fools of themselves hence my previous comment.

Feminist salt is the best salt.

You must be a real Casanova.

 

[Nuke Soda]

Video was alright. Fair points raised and such, but would have been more interesting just to give the ladies the controller and tell them to do whatever rather than prostitutes and strippers. I will say I really like GTAV and Trevor is probably my favorite GTA protagonist, but the game has some serious problems with its treatment of the ladies.