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[McDougles]

If I remember right the Wii U has Wii internals in it, not emulated.

Shit, I meant to run. Will fix.

Either way, those requirements are so miniscule compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360. Plus, continuing to run on a PowerPC CPU just to get BC to work seems like an odd decision. I'd rather have significant jumps in technical hardware on consoles rather than minimal upgrades for the purpose of playing games and a console I already own.

 

[nkarafo]

Not allowing their games to be downloaded for free off the net. I thought Nintendo was fighting it?

You still have the right to dump your own games on the PC and use emulators to play them. The result is the same. In case your old console is not working anymore, you can play it's games. And you conveniently use one system for everything, instead of having multiple devices (and a spaghetti of cables).

 

[TomShoe]

> Backwards compatibility

> $399

Pick one. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[DoktorEvil]

You still have the right to dump your own games on the PC and use emulators to play them.

Provided you still legally own a retail copy, you are allowed to make 1 non-transferrable legal copy.

I don't know how that applies across the world but that's the rule in the US AFAIK.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Cost would be a big reason - look at the original BC PS3s.

On that note, how far is emulation of the 360 / PS3?



Yes.

PS3 and 360 emulation are both in the very very early stage. Right now the issue is trying to get stuff to boot, yet alone run decently,

 

[LewieP]

If MS, with Windows 10 and new DEV kits, can get Apple iOS and Android Apps to convert easily to Windows OS, and they can deploy these to phones, PCs, and XB1, why can't they make it available to developers to easily convert their 360 games? Especially Live Arcade?

Microsoft: It is really easy to port games to Windows 10. Sometimes it only takes a matter of days.
Everyone else: Cool! Does that mean you're going to port some of the highlights of the oXbox and Xbox 360 to Windows 10.
Microsoft: Look at these shiny live tiles! Have you heard about how Windows is now built to harness the power of the cloud? Hololens is amazing and it is also an actual product that actually exists.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

If it means better and cheaper consoles, I could not give less of a shit about BC, I'd just go and get the console or emulate if it's possible.

I'm so glad Sony/MS did the right thing, now Nintendo's next, PLEASE go x86 and drop BC.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

> Backwards compatibility

> $399

Pick one. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Sure you can, if Sony and MS sold their hardware at a loss like last generation!

In all seriousness, it is understandable why BC was taken out but that doesn't mean it's something I have to like.

 

[Windforce]

BC is too overrated.

 

[nkarafo]

Provided you still legally own a retail copy, you are allowed to make 1 non-transferrable legal copy.

I don't know how that applies across the world but that's the rule in the US AFAIK.

What does "non-transferrable" mean? Any file can be copied-pasted in windows, unless it's a system file in use or something... and even that can be accessed in safe mode or if you use the HDD in a different PC with a different OS. Also, if i make a backup of my dumped games (so i won't have to dump them again in case my HDD dies) does that mean i'm breaking the law? (assuming i live in the US?)

 

[jimi_dini]

Thats the thing tho....and something I wonder about with the next Nintendo console. Do Nintendo keep using the same internal components for continual BC...or do they try to make development for their console parallel with the PS4, XBO?

They don't have to do that. It's not this or that.

PS3 is completely different than PS2. But first few PS3s (except the most expensive ones released in Europe) had a few bucks worth (literally) of hardware components in it that made it possible to get 99.9% backward compatibility. It was a tiny few percents of the total price only.

If you plan your hardware properly and actually care, you can do that.

Or well if you want to sell your old games over and over and over again every generation, well then there is no reason for you to do that of course.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

When my 360 goes, I'll never be able to play RDR again. That'll be sad.

 

[HCgamer]

No bc is why I have not purchased a ps4 yet possibly never will.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

When my 360 goes, I'll never be able to play RDR again. That'll be sad.

I'd be shocked if Rockstar doesn't have a current-gen port of that game waiting in the wings.

 

[LewieP]

Or well if you want to sell your old games over and over and over again every generation, well then there is no reason for you to do that of course.

That is incorrect. If the PS4 had full backwards compatibility with PS1/PS2/PS3, they would be selling a lot more games via PSN right now.

I'm not saying it should have full hardware BC (although PS1/PS2 should be supported via emulation imo), but in a scenario where it did, they would be making a decent amount of money from software that would otherwise only be selling to PS3 owners.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

With PS+ and GwG I really wish that both PS4 and XB1 were backwards compatible.

The first and only argument that I've seen that makes me wish PS4 and XB1 had backwards compatibility.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

That is incorrect. If the PS4 had full backwards compatibility with PS1/PS2/PS3, they would be selling a lot more games via PSN right now.

I'm not saying it should have full hardware BC (although PS1/PS2 should be supported via emulation imo), but in a scenario where it did, they would be making a decent amount of money from software that would otherwise only be selling to PS3 owners.

It's looking increasingly likely they don't want to "sell" older games via PSN, they want to rent them via PSNow.

There isn't a single reason why they don't have PS1 titles ready to go. they perfected PS1 emulation over a decade ago when they sued Connectix out of business and kept their code.

 

[SparkTR]

That is incorrect. If the PS4 had full backwards compatibility with PS1/PS2/PS3, they would be selling a lot more games via PSN right now.

I'm not saying it should have full hardware BC (although PS1/PS2 should be supported via emulation imo), but in a scenario where it did, they would be making a decent amount of money from software that would otherwise only be selling to PS3 owners.

Definitely, BC would really pad out digital libraries, push people towards digital and increase the lifecycle of games dramatically. There's a reason why Skyrim, Civ V and TW2 still sell millions every year on Steam despite them being 'last-gen' games. In an environment where generations don't exist they just become good games that people will buy en masse regardless of what year.

 

[DoktorEvil]

What does "non-transferrable" mean? Any file can be copied-pasted in windows, unless it's a system file in use or something... and even that can be accessed in safe mode or if you use the HDD in a different PC with a different OS. Also, if i make a backup of my dumped games (so i won't have to dump them again in case my HDD dies) does that mean i'm breaking the law? (assuming i live in the US?)

Basically don't upload it to Pirate Bay and share it.

Don't encourage piracy.

That's the way I've interpret it.

 

[SmokedMeat]

You still have the right to dump your own games on the PC and use emulators to play them. The result is the same. In case your old console is not working anymore, you can play it's games. And you conveniently use one system for everything, instead of having multiple devices (and a spaghetti of cables).

How do you dump all of those old console carts? Is there a device that does them all?

 

[jimi_dini]

You still have the right to dump your own games on the PC and use emulators to play them. The result is the same.

the result is the same (although you can get into trouble for one and for the other you don't), but legally it is not.

It also makes sense. First of all downloading ROMs via torrent is not just downloading, but also offering it to other users. Second - anyone seeing that you download the ROM can't know that you already own a physical copy, which means it can get you into trouble. And in my opinion rightfully so.

Also keep in mind that copies on the internet may have been modified in all sorts of ways. Adding a virus/trojan. Cracked in some way, which may make it impossible to complete the game and so on. Incomplete. It makes no sense for anyone who actually owns physical catridges/copies to download them from non-legal places on the internet.

That is incorrect. If the PS4 had full backwards compatibility with PS1/PS2/PS3, they would be selling a lot more games via PSN right now.

PS3 games are already "offered" via PS Now. A rental service with always online DRM. That's way better for Sony than actually selling ownership of those games. Bandwidth is cheap. Sony has already said that "games as a service" is their goal.

Other PS3 games are re-released on PS4 for way higher prices than on PS3-PSN. Sure, better framerate. Higher resolution. But that's basically it. On PC you can get that by just upgrading your hardware. For SD -> HD it sort of made sense (although the reason for that was primarily shitty upscalers). For HD -> better HD, it doesn't.

You know why there are so many re-releases of last-gen games on those current-gen consoles? Because they sell a lot. If those games were simply sold on PSN as regular last-gen titles, they wouldn't make as much profit, because their prices are really low now most of the time and people would also be able to actually buy a physical copy as well of those games.

To be fair at least a few tiny games are cross-buy, which means you will get those in case you bought the digital PS3 version. But with actual hardware BC you would get all of those games including physical copies. And it's still bullshit, because you get nothing in case you bought the physical edition, which is typically more expensive. There would be solutions for this, like for example checking the physical disc and getting you access in that case to the digital versions.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

How do you dump all of those old console carts? Is there a device that does them all?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_backup_device

How do you think ROMs get created in the first place?

 

[phanphare]

It could have been handled better but you're literally getting a Wii console inside your Wii U. It's actually pretty great, all things considered.

and a GCN too technically

just no disc support

 

[nkarafo]

the result is the same (although you can get into trouble for one and for the other you don't), but legally it is not.

It also makes sense. First of all downloading ROMs via torrent is not just downloading, but also offering it to other users. Second - anyone seeing that you download the ROM can't know that you already own a physical copy, which means it can get you into trouble. And in my opinion rightfully so.

Also keep in mind that copies on the internet may have been modified in all sorts of ways. Adding a virus/trojan. Cracked in some way, which may make it impossible to complete the game and so on. Incomplete. It makes no sense for anyone who actually owns physical catridges/copies to download them from non-legal places on the internet.

I meant "the result is the same" in that you still need only one device to play the games (a PC) thus it's more convenient than having multiple consoles plugged in, assuming they still all work and you have a proper setup (like a CRT TV or a decent upscaler) so that the games don't look like shit (as most old games do in modern TVs).

 

[Zia]

My (third?) 360 Red Ringed this past week and I'm really pleased about having to purchase a brand new, obsolete console in order to play Rez HD and a decent version of Pac-Man: Championship Edition. Both digital games that have appeared on other platforms in some form.

I guess I can't complain though, as the lack of BC has saved the platform holders a lot of money that's in turn been put toward incredible, next-gen Experiences like Bloodborne and, uh... hm.

 

[Nzyme32]

Backwards compatibility is one of the main reasons why I don't console game any more. The console manufactures like every other are there to make money from you, but particularly this is true between hardware and software transitioning to their next system. Getting you to buy everything all over again is just crazy to look back on since moving back to PC.

It feels so good to be able to invest in a platform and not have that depreciated or cut out. Be it games, hardware and accessories, I can at least have them all ready to go when I want them with no arbitrary pay wall / repurchase to have access to any of them. Furthermore, old hardware is not guaranteed to last forever, and inevitably with more complex processes comes more points of failure. My NES and SNES remain fine; my Gamecube, Xbox, Xbox 360 have all failed. I don't see reliance on old systems as the right direction nor do I think repurchasing everything all over again

 

[The Incarnation]

It was foolish not to have it really, money would have been made from digital sales.

 

[googleplex]

I would never understand how someone could argue against backwards compatibility when it's literally a feature which benefits the player.

Easy. If including backwards compatibility in the design of your next generation console will retard it by saddling you with an antiquated architectural design. Then fuck backwards compatibility.

The PS4 and Xbone did the right thing by moving to an x86 based architecture. Yes they lost compatability with the PS3 and 360 library but the advantages of having a modern platform for developers far out the weighs that lost.

 

[epmode]

Never tried playing old games, I see.

I've been playing PC games for decades and I can only think of a handful of my games that are 100% unplayable in Windows 8.1. Even if there wasn't an official patch, DOSBox, a fan patch or some kind of workaround exists for practically everything.

BC is great but you can't rely on platform holders to give a shit. They care very little for game preservation.

 

[fritolay]

Why would you place the ps4 on top of the only fan on the Xbox?

I don't know, maybe because I haven't researched where and how many fans on the latest Xbox? How many casuals have probably none.

The thing that keeps Apple customers buying Apple products, one of the main ones I hear, is the ecosystem. They have invested in the games, music, and movies in their library that transfer to new Apple devices (most).

I just don't get Sony or MS trying to get people to buy into their digital games, and then you lose them.

 

[REDSLATE]

Looks at PC and asks "What is backwards compatibility?"

WoW64? DOSBOX?

Heck, even Vista screwed some pretty legit Win32 games up due to messing up 8-bit graphics mode. Not sure if anybody found a persistent fix for this.

Looks at PC and asks "What is backwards compatibility?"

Never tried playing old games, I see.

Owned.

On that note, how far is emulation of the 360 / PS3?

You're joking, right? Original Xbox emulation is still in its infancy.

 

[Faerith]

I love that the NDS is BC with the GBA while having a better screen,
but I would love it more if the d-pad were a clone of the precise GBA SP one... all those Shinesparks (Metroid games) towards the wrong direction. -.-
Actually this made me wonder, the WiiU can play Wii and through that GC - would/should a GBA-adapter for the 3DS be possible?

Just found my old consoles (Saturn, Genesis, PS1, and my Legend of Dragoon game. I will be busy.

Just remember to back them up - time is like a bookworm for CDs, regardless of how careful you treat your games.
My current damage: unreadable Langrisser 4 and Growlanser disc 1, Xenogears disc 1 with readerrors... while Legend of Mana, scratched by the evil "you gotta use me upsidedown or maybe sideways slightly tilted"-Ps1 was fine... yay for those super-random cdworms.


Also +1 for the great BC of the PC (that is if you kept/backedup your floppies(drives) of games that are not yet on gog).

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Looks at PC and asks "What is backwards compatibility?"

Nice try, but old PC games are often just straight up busted now.

 

[Silent Chief]

Try PS NOW.

 

[epmode]

Nice try, but old PC games are often just straight up busted now.

Name names. There are exceptions but virtually everything that's actually worth playing is fixable.

Even the rare games that are 100% unworkable on modern operating systems can still be run by booting into an old OS.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=165774407&postcount=129

 

[ViolentP]

In an age of virtual machine emulation, almost every legacy PC title is playable.

 

[petran79]

In an age of virtual machine emulation, almost every legacy PC title is playable.

If they only added Windows 9x Direct3D acceleration, it would be perfect!
But I read this is a really difficult task

MS-DOS Dungeon Keeper 1 could be played with Direct3D on Windows, enhancing the graphics and fps

 

[androvsky]

If they only added Windows 9x Direct3D acceleration, it would be perfect!
But I read this is a really difficult task

MS-DOS Dungeon Keeper 1 could be played with Direct3D on Windows, enhancing the graphics and fps

I've found early DirectX titles tend to run very well on Wine in Linux, all you have to do is set compatibility to the right version of Windows.

 

[ViolentP]

If they only added Windows 9x Direct3D acceleration, it would be perfect!
But I read this is a really difficult task

MS-DOS Dungeon Keeper 1 could be played with Direct3D on Windows, enhancing the graphics and fps

PC gaming has always had enough customization that in my opinion, asking a 20 year old game to be as flexible now as it was back then may be asking too much. For me, I'm just happy I can play them. I would take the non-talkie version of Day of the Tentacle over no Tentacle.

 

[electric turd]

I don't know, maybe because I haven't researched where and how many fans on the latest Xbox? How many casuals have probably none.

The thing that keeps Apple customers buying Apple products, one of the main ones I hear, is the ecosystem. They have invested in the games, music, and movies in their library that transfer to new Apple devices (most).

I just don't get Sony or MS trying to get people to buy into their digital games, and then you lose them.

Well its pretty obvious that there is a vent on top. Casual or not, that's common sense.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I don't know, maybe because I haven't researched where and how many fans on the latest Xbox? How many casuals have probably none.

The thing that keeps Apple customers buying Apple products, one of the main ones I hear, is the ecosystem. They have invested in the games, music, and movies in their library that transfer to new Apple devices (most).

I just don't get Sony or MS trying to get people to buy into their digital games, and then you lose them.

The console makers subsidize hardware for software sales.

They make more money as a publisher than as a hardware provider.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Found a stack of old Xbox games in the basement and was like ... I want to play some mediocre ass Dead to Rights II god dammit.

if you like playing video games to release tension, and you don't care about good stories or online multiplayer modes or any of that stuff, definitely rent this one or something.

Think the only game I have that's 360 compatible is Hulk: Ultimate Destruction. Granted that's a pretty good game, and I believe it's supposed to run at 720p.
Thankfully I made the dumb decision of buying a PS3 at launch.

 

[jroc74]

They don't have to do that. It's not this or that.

PS3 is completely different than PS2. But first few PS3s (except the most expensive ones released in Europe) had a few bucks worth (literally) of hardware components in it that made it possible to get 99.9% backward compatibility. It was a tiny few percents of the total price only.

If you plan your hardware properly and actually care, you can do that.

Or well if you want to sell your old games over and over and over again every generation, well then there is no reason for you to do that of course.

So...in other words Sony and MS shoulda stuck with PowerPC then... My opinion on that again:

Easy. If including backwards compatibility in the design of your next generation console will retard it by saddling you with an antiquated architectural design. Then fuck backwards compatibility.

The PS4 and Xbone did the right thing by moving to an x86 based architecture. Yes they lost compatability with the PS3 and 360 library but the advantages of having a modern platform for developers far out the weighs that lost.

Even tho Sony went from hardware to software emulation on the PS3 for BC it was still there somewhat. Could they still do software emulation on current gen? I dont really know. It will be really interesting to see what cpu Nintendo uses for their next home console.

 

[a.wd]

I hate the fact that we don't have proper BC on the current platforms. I ended up getting a PS4 as it was super cheap (£225 brand new with games) and the xb1 as it had compelling games at the right price. I am looking at my ps4 collection all 3rd party or mediocre 1st and it's kinda depressing to me and my xb1 collection is not far off but at least has decent exclusives .

On the plus side the media capabilities of the xb1 are pretty Damn good so that makes it a little better, but the move to x86 hasn't really bought me as a gamer all that much.

I would have loved to be able to retire my ps3 and 360 completely but the libraries are sooo much better than current gen (even at the same point in time).

 

[Acerac]

I've not purchased a system without BC since... the Gamecube? It's been a basic feature for a while now. If buying an Xbox One meant I'd have access to all the 360 games I never played I'd have far more of a reason to consider it. As is, it has barely anything on it I'd want to try.

It's a great feature to have available, it sucks that many these days aren't bothering with it.

 

[EmptySpace]

people keep harping about this but when ps3 had ps2 bc no one in the real world actually gave a shit come release.

 

[Jamix012]

people keep harping about this but when ps3 had ps2 bc no one in the real world actually gave a shit come release.

I think the world really has changed though. I admit to not giving a shit about Wii's or 360's BC just because I wanted to move on to a new console, but now I use 3DS and Wii U BC all the time because I missed so much.

 

[SparkTR]

Owned.

Nice try, but old PC games are often just straight up busted now.

Are you guys serious? I play a ton of older games on my PC, hundreds of games with many that haven't yet been rereleased on Steam or GoG and I've only encountered TWO that don't run on post Windows 7 machines. Requiem Avenging Angel and Warhammer 40K Fire Warrior.

95% of the time it's literally just install and play, about a million times easier than pulling your old consoles out of storage.

 

[Josh5890]

I currently have nine consoles connected to my TV so I'm in no need for backwards compatibility at this point

 

[FinalStageBoss]

people keep harping about this but when ps3 had ps2 bc no one in the real world actually gave a shit come release.

I remember how excited I was for the PS3 BC feature and then I never even used it once lol. Even with the monster PS2 library. I realized I don't give a shit about BC.