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Is it likely that Usain Bolt is doping?

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P

Pedrito

Member
On one hand, so many jamaicans have been caught in recent years, so it could lead you to believe that doping is almost systemic in their team. Their anti-doping program is also pretty much inexistent.

On the other hand, he has a built that is very different from the other sprinters. He was also considered a prodigy when he was still a teenager. So he might actually be a freak of nature.

I'd say it's 50-50.
 
K

kottila

Member
Pedrito said:
On one hand, so many jamaicans have been caught in recent years, so it could leave you to believe that doping is almost systemic in their team. Their anti-doping program is also pretty much inexistent.

On the other hand, he has a built that is very different from the other sprinters. He was also considered a prodigy when he was still a teenager. So he might actually be a freak of nature.

I'd say it's 50-50.
Click to expand...

Or he's both
 
S

Snorlocs

Member
Bolt was the fastest youth athlete in the world at one point. How is it so hard to believe that he could transition to fastest adult athlete without cheating?
 
GHG

GHG

Gold Member
The haters in this thread...

He has a freak build, never really seen before for a 100m sprinter.

He was told he couldn't run the 100m at this level due to him taking too long to get out of the blocks since it's more difficult the taller you are. For people who follow the sport he didn't suddenly just burst onto the scene, people were aware of him but more as a high potential 200m runner and someone who could run a straight leg on a 4x100m relay because of the standing start.

The numbers (previous PB in the low 10s to a mid 9s WR a year later) don't tell the whole story. He's always had phenomenal speed once he's up and running, even as a teenager. It was just his start and tweaks to his running technique that needed work and he got that in the year prior to his 1st world records.

Just because all your American sprinters are doping in order to be fast, it doesn't mean everyone else is.

Innocent until proven guilty.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
I have no idea.

But all I know is that it is so competitive these days and such big money is involved that I just assume that most of them are doping. At least if they think they can get away with it.
 
D

Dusk Soldier

Member
GHG said:
The haters in this thread...

He has a freak build, never really seen before for a 100m sprinter.

He was told he couldn't run the 100m at this level due to him taking too long to get out of the blocks since it's more difficult the taller you are. For people who follow the sport he didn't suddenly just burst onto the scene, people were aware of him but more as a high potential 200m runner and someone who could run a straight leg on a 4x100m relay because of the standing start.

The numbers (previous PB in the low 10s to a mid 9s WR a year later) don't tell the whole story. He's always had phenomenal speed once he's up and running, even as a teenager. It was just his start and tweaks to his running technique that needed work and he got that in the year prior to his 1st world records.

Just because all your American sprinters are doping in order to be fast, it doesn't mean everyone else is.

Innocent until proven guilty.
Click to expand...

Just because you think he's doping, doesn't make you a hater.
 
G

GiantBreadbug

Member
I never really thought about the doping too much, I always just didn't like him because he seemed like a jerk.

I dunno, I get being confident and comfortable in your success but the guy just reeks of hubris to me. I can't put my finger on it but I just do not like the way he carries himself. I guess the word smug comes to mind.

But yeah most successful athletes are doping so.
 
GHG

GHG

Gold Member
Dusk Soldier said:
Just because you think he's doping, doesn't make you a hater.
Click to expand...

Based on what I'm seeing in this thread, yes it does.

People would rather speculate that the guy is taking performance enhancing drugs rather than look at the facts and the history behind the world records and gold medals?

The only reasoning anyone has for him taking drugs is that "everyone else is so he must be too".

It doesn't work like that. Show me some evidence that the guy is doping and then we can talk.
 
N

n00bsauce87

Member
I can't imagine whoever regulates this sport doesn't do all they can to prove Bolt is a cheater. I'm not saying that they are doing it in a malicious way, because he's good for the sport and they probably have a lot of respect for him as an athlete. But it would be bad for them to not try and find out with whatever they have to do to find out if he is a cheater. And if he comes back every time negative, then he's just a gifted athlete who want the gene pool lottery. I guess the ultimate fallback for those who "seem to be" too successful is that there has to be drugs involved.

Not saying anything about OP, but I think it's more human nature than anything to assume that one can't be this good.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
GHG said:
The haters in this thread...

He has a freak build, never really seen before for a 100m sprinter.

He was told he couldn't run the 100m at this level due to him taking too long to get out of the blocks since it's more difficult the taller you are. For people who follow the sport he didn't suddenly just burst onto the scene, people were aware of him but more as a high potential 200m runner and someone who could run a straight leg on a 4x100m relay because of the standing start.

The numbers (previous PB in the low 10s to a mid 9s WR a year later) don't tell the whole story. He's always had phenomenal speed once he's up and running, even as a teenager. It was just his start and tweaks to his running technique that needed work and he got that in the year prior to his 1st world records.

Just because all your American sprinters are doping in order to be fast, it doesn't mean everyone else is.

Innocent until proven guilty.
Click to expand...

Innocent proven guilty doesn't apply here. He's not on trial.
 
GHG

GHG

Gold Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Innocent proven guilty doesn't apply here. He's not on trial.
Click to expand...

Oh so it's the reverse in this case? Guilty until proven innocent?

The only evidence available points towards him being innocent and clean.

Considering the number of shocking accusations without any foundation in this thread the guy may as well be on trial.
 
D

Dusk Soldier

Member
GHG said:
Based on what I'm seeing in this thread, yes it does.

People would rather speculate that the guy is taking performance enhancing drugs rather than look at the facts and the history behind the world records and gold medals?

The only reasoning anyone has for him taking drugs is that "everyone else is so he must be too".

It doesn't work like that. Show me some evidence that the guy is doping and then we can talk.
Click to expand...

These are the facts man.

PEDs give users a competitive edge over non-users.

The sport of sprinting has had several top-level athletes exposed as dopers.

Bolt has beaten known dopers in races.

It's not hating, it's just simple physics.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
GHG said:
Oh so it's the reverse in this case? Guilty until proven innocent?

The only evidence available points towards him being innocent and clean.

Considering the number of shocking accusations without any foundation in this thread the guy may as well be on trial.
Click to expand...

It's whatever people want to believe. Personal opinion and public perception don't have to carry a standard. I don't know for sure if Bolt is doping, but there isn't a single athlete on the planet, him included, where it would surprise me if they failed a dope test.
 
M

milanbaros

Member?
GHG said:
Oh so it's the reverse in this case? Guilty until proven innocent?

The only evidence available points towards him being innocent and clean.

Considering the number of shocking accusations without any foundation in this thread the guy may as well be on trial.
Click to expand...

We are giving our opinion as to whether we believe he has doped not whether we would convict him of doping and ban him for life. Do you see the difference?

No one is saying he should be found guilty they are just saying that on balance of what we know about the sport he is more likely to have doped than not.
 
GHG

GHG

Gold Member
Dusk Soldier said:
These are the facts man.

PEDs give users a competitive edge over non-users.

The sport of sprinting has had several top-level athletes exposed as dopers.

Bolt has beaten known dopers in races.

It's not hating, it's just simple physics.
Click to expand...

"Physics" is a 6"5 powerful man with a long stride slaying his shorter competitors who have to put more work in to cover the same distance in the same amount of time.

What you are saying has nothing to do with physics.
 
L

Laz-E-Boy

Member
GHG said:
Based on what I'm seeing in this thread, yes it does.

People would rather speculate that the guy is taking performance enhancing drugs rather than look at the facts and the history behind the world records and gold medals?

The only reasoning anyone has for him taking drugs is that "everyone else is so he must be too".

It doesn't work like that. Show me some evidence that the guy is doping and then we can talk.
Click to expand...

Doesnt really matter. Whether he's clean or doping he's the best. I give absolutely zero fucks about pro athletes potentially using, especially if they're in a sport that for the last 30 years has seen it nearly all its best atheletes use PED's.

I don't care how Bolt does it. I just wanna see him clown everyone win the gold in the Olympics again.
 
K

Kikujiro

Member
GHG said:
"Physics" is a 6"5 powerful man with a long stride slaying his shorter competitors who have to put more work in to cover the same distance in the same amount of time.

What you are saying has nothing to do with physics.
Click to expand...

It's incredible how people are completely dismissing the fact that Usain Bolt's build is one of a kind, just look at all the other competitors and him, the difference is huge.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
The worst would be if he got all his golds and records clean, but started doping later to stay on top, then got caught, and everyone saying he was always on gear. That would be the worst.
 
D

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Kikujiro said:
It's incredible how people are completely dismissing the fact that Usain Bolt's build is one of a kind, just look at all the other competitors and him, the difference is huge.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he has a natural advantage. The argument that he must be doping because he's beaten athletes who have seems a stretch.

The swimmer Thorpe was dogged by this as well wasn't he?
 
R

Retromelon

Member
duckroll said:
There is no integrity to athletic sports of this kind. Hasn't been for a long time. Anyone who wants to believe there is, is just fooling themselves. That's not to say lying about doping is something we should condone, but it is what it is, and everyone is in on it. It's like trying to say that politics is clean, with a straight face.
Click to expand...
What is like trying to say that politics is clean with a straight face? Also your post seems to be trying to educate me about how corrupt everything is, as if i weren't aware, when i all i meant to say is that i find the sentiment expressed in my op abhorrent.
 
P

Pifje

Member
Even female athletes in less high profile sports are using testosterone and growth hormone. He is absolutely using something out of the hundreds of chemical cocktails out there.
 
M

mm04

Member
Of course he is. Hell, just statistically speaking, what are the odds that a tiny island with that small of a population could become the mecca of both mens AND womens sprinting? This isn't a primarily skill based sport like soccer where you can be a world power with a small population built on generations of training and skill development. Genetics plays a huge part of it. What is it about Jamaica's location that makes it a favorable place to be born and train to be a sprinter? It's also utterly ridiculous that Justin Gatlin still is allowed to compete. I can't take any accomplishment by him seriously.
 
X

XGRaViSmOrSX

Member
After reading "game of shadows" about the whole BALCO doping scandal way back when, I assume almost all high level athletes are doping in some form. Too much money for there not to be.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Retromelon said:
What is like trying to say that politics is clean with a straight face? Also your post seems to be trying to educate me about how corrupt everything is, as if i weren't aware, when i all i meant to say is that i find the sentiment expressed in my op abhorrent.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying that I don't think there is much actual integrity in most athletic sports, just like there isn't really such a thing as clean politics. It's shitty, but it's part of the system. Not trying to educate anyone, just commenting.
 
K

kmag

Member
mm04 said:
Of course he is. Hell, just statistically speaking, what are the odds that a tiny island with that small of a population could become the mecca of both mens AND womens sprinting? This isn't a primarily skill based sport like soccer where you can be a world power with a small population built on generations of training and skill development. Genetics plays a huge part of it. What is it about Jamaica's location that makes it a favorable place to be born and train to be a sprinter? It's also utterly ridiculous that Justin Gatlin still is allowed to compete. I can't take any accomplishment by him seriously.
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http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...aicans-sprinting-athletics-commonwealth-games

Scientists have looked into the genetics of Jamaican sprinters’ dominance. The first gene associated with powerful sprinting is the angiotensin-converting enzyme, or ACE, gene. If you have a particular variant of this gene (known as the “D allele”) you are likely to have a larger than average heart capable of pumping highly oxygenated blood to muscles quicker than the average human. That also gives your body a better response to training. In people of west African origin, the frequency of the variant is slightly higher than in those of European and Japanese origin. In Jamaica, it’s a little higher than in west Africa.

That is interesting because, of the 10 million people forcibly removed from Africa in the transatlantic slave trade, more than a million died en route. The last stop for the Caribbean slave ships was Jamaica; if you made it this far, you were among the toughest of the tough.

This small effect may be amplified by the ACTN3 gene. This encodes instructions to create a protein called alpha-actinin-3, which helps muscles generate strong, repetitive contractions. Like the ACE gene, it comes in different types. The desirable variant for a sprinter is known as 577RR. While only 70% of US international-standard athletes have the desirable variant, 75% of Jamaicans have it whether they are athletes or not. That gives Jamaica another edge.

There may be another tiny advantage: Jamaican soil. University of the West Indies researchers Rachael Irving and Vilma Charlton discovered that a disproportionate number of Jamaica’s Olympians – including Usain Bolt and Veronica Campbell – come from the region containing the island’s aluminium ore deposits. Even more Olympians’ parents were born and raised there. The ACTN3 gene can only make a difference during the first three months of pregnancy when the number of fast twitch muscle fibres is determined. Irving and Charlton’s suspicion is that aluminium in the mother’s diet promotes the gene’s activity. We already know that aluminium in the environment or diet can alter a gene’s creation of certain proteins. Jamaica’s food crops will contain especially high amounts of aluminium when grown in bauxite-rich soil. If that promotes the development of fast-twitch muscle fibres in growing foetuses, that could add to the Jamaican edge.
Click to expand...
 
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