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Steven Spielberg : Superhero Movies Will Go the Way of the Western

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G

Garlador

Member
Here's the thing Spielberg doesn't acknowledge; "Superhero" films are no longer confined to the genre of "superhero" movie.

The MCU is a big testament at how well it endures because all their franchises excel in DIFFERENT areas.

Iron Man 1 is half prison-break, half sci fi action film.
Incredible Hulk is a monster movie.
Captain America: First Avenger is a retro war movie.
Thor 1 and 2 are fantasy films.
Avengers was an alien invasion movie.
Captain America: Winter Soldier is an espionage thriller.
Guardians of the Galaxy was a science fiction space adventure.
Avengers 2 is a robot rebellion film.
Ant-Man is a heist movie.
Daredevil is a gritty street level drama.
Etc.

It's a disservice to brand them all as "superhero" movies when often they're so vastly different from one another. Doctor Strange is going to be vastly different from Black Panther which is going to be entirely different from Captain Marvel and the Inhumans.

That elasticity allows them a lot of flexibility to appeal to a lot of different people who are fans of different genres.

It's why you can be a fan of Guardians of the Galaxy, but not Thor movies, or a fan of Captain America but not Hulk. There's still something there for everyone.
 
M

mreddie

Member
Funny thing is we got more spy films than superhero films this year and aren't we getting more westerns down the road?

tumblr_llylplkbdU1qztjn5o1_500.png
 
B

Blader

Member
mreddie said:
Funny thing is we got more spy films than superhero films this year and aren't we getting more westerns down the road?
Click to expand...

There are westerns here and there but nowhere near the glut that existed in the 40s and 50s, or even 60s and 70s.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
I think it's very possible they could stay on top until traditional cinema itself declines. It's a genre that works extremely well with special effect heavy action movies, something that I can't see dying.

I guess there's a chance that people might eventually want to see more varied set ups for the action pieces, like Jurassic Park and Star Wars, but I really don't think we'll get multiple new franchises that will rise like that.
 
M

mreddie

Member
Blader said:
There are westerns here and there but nowhere near the glut that existed in the 40s and 50s, or even 60s and 70s.
Click to expand...

Yeah, plus 2015 had 3 hero films this year and 6 next year? Doesn't sound too much.

Also, does the Unknown Badass films (John Wick, Run All Night, Equalizer) count as a genre?
 
S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
Garlador said:
Here's the thing Spielberg doesn't acknowledge; "Superhero" films are no longer confined to the genre of "superhero" movie.

The MCU is a big testament at how well it endures because all their franchises excel in DIFFERENT areas.

Iron Man 1 is half prison-break, half sci fi action film.
Incredible Hulk is a monster movie.
Captain America: First Avenger is a retro war movie.
Thor 1 and 2 are fantasy films.
Avengers was an alien invasion movie.
Captain America: Winter Soldier is an espionage thriller.
Guardians of the Galaxy was a science fiction space adventure.
Avengers 2 is a robot rebellion film.
Ant-Man is a heist movie.
Daredevil is a gritty street level drama.
Etc.

It's a disservice to brand them all as "superhero" movies when often they're so vastly different from one another. Doctor Strange is going to be vastly different from Black Panther which is going to be entirely different from Captain Marvel and the Inhumans.

That elasticity allows them a lot of flexibility to appeal to a lot of different people who are fans of different genres.

It's why you can be a fan of Guardians of the Galaxy, but not Thor movies, or a fan of Captain America but not Hulk. There's still something there for everyone.
Click to expand...
I'll give you The Winter Soldier. Laughed at the rest.
 
J

Jackson

Member
I think their explosive growth will diminish, simply because they will peak in popularity and then retract, but it's not apples to apples.

Westerns and WW2 movies aren't as dynamic a setting as Superhero movies. A superhero movie can be anything from Chronicle to Guardians of the Galaxy to Batman.

A western is set in the west, that's what makes it a western. A superhero movie can't be as easily defined. Batman is a superhero and has no powers and is set in a gritty city. Spider-man is about powers and is set in a much more lighthearted city. GotG is about spacefaring "heroes", some with powers, some with gadgets. It's too broad a genre to go the way of the Western.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
they're all the same damn genre lol, y'all still trying to call ant man a heist movie? because of the first 15 or so minutes?! even winter soldier abandons it's awesome spy trappings in the second half to go summer marvel on us.

i also roll my eyes when people say the dark knight is a crime drama. so no i'm not just biased against the mcu (though they're the worst offenders these days in popular blandness imo)

their attempts at other genres are superficial at best.
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
neogaffer1 said:
not really, but they're still all superhero movies. man of steel isn't anything like superman returns and it's even the same character in both.
Click to expand...

That's an incredibly simplistic and shallow approach. Batman 66 and Dark Knight are also both the same character, but are clearly not doing the same thing.


Discotheque said:
they're all the same damn genre lol, y'all still trying to call ant man a heist movie? because of the first 15 or so minutes?! even winter soldier abandons it's awesome spy trappings in the second half to go summer marvel on us.

i also roll my eyes when people say the dark knight is a crime drama. so no i'm not just biased against the mcu (though they're the worst offenders these days in popular blandness imo)

their attempts at other genres are superficial at best.
Click to expand...

Ant-Man and Dark Knight are the same damn genre? Beyond there being a protagonist in a costume and an antagonist in a costume, their similarities end there, tonally and thematically.
 
S

Scientist Supreme!

Banned
Like people have said, of course there will decline of how many are made but it's never going to be like the western. Superhero comics are much more varied then westerns ever were. They will be a common aspect of the movie industry going forward.
 
I

Into

Member
Nothing is forever.

Its not much of a bold prediction, entertainment goes through various cycles. Next generation will always feel the need to cast off the shackles of the past and forge their own era, and that is always replicated in films throughout time.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
Garlador said:
Here's the thing Spielberg doesn't acknowledge; "Superhero" films are no longer confined to the genre of "superhero" movie.

The MCU is a big testament at how well it endures because all their franchises excel in DIFFERENT areas.

Iron Man 1 is half prison-break, half sci fi action film.
Incredible Hulk is a monster movie.
Captain America: First Avenger is a retro war movie.
Thor 1 and 2 are fantasy films.
Avengers was an alien invasion movie.
Captain America: Winter Soldier is an espionage thriller.
Guardians of the Galaxy was a science fiction space adventure.
Avengers 2 is a robot rebellion film.
Ant-Man is a heist movie.
Daredevil is a gritty street level drama.
Etc.

It's a disservice to brand them all as "superhero" movies when often they're so vastly different from one another. Doctor Strange is going to be vastly different from Black Panther which is going to be entirely different from Captain Marvel and the Inhumans.

That elasticity allows them a lot of flexibility to appeal to a lot of different people who are fans of different genres.

It's why you can be a fan of Guardians of the Galaxy, but not Thor movies, or a fan of Captain America but not Hulk. There's still something there for everyone.
Click to expand...
This is a joke post right?

Avengers 2 isn't a super hero movie it's a "robot uprising" movie. What. This can't be real life.

mreddie said:
I assume people are still mad over Jurassic World sucking, I won't be mad unless Bridge sucks.
Click to expand...
Spielberg didn't write or direct Jurassic World.
 
N

neogaffer1

Banned
Shaanyboi said:
That's an incredibly simplistic and shallow approach. Batman 66 and Dark Knight are also both the same character, but are clearly not doing the same thing.




Ant-Man and Dark Knight are the same damn genre? Beyond there being a protagonist in a costume and an antagonist in a costume, their similarities end there, tonally and thematically.
Click to expand...

how is it simplistic? they're both different takes on the same subject. ocean's eleven and heat are both heist movies--they're insanely different in tone and approach. but they're still in the same genre.
 
N

Nairume

Banned
Blader said:
There are westerns here and there but nowhere near the glut that existed in the 40s and 50s, or even 60s and 70s.
Click to expand...
Or the 10s, 20s, and 30s

I feel like it's hard to act like westerns were a bubble when they lasted so long that three full generations of people were born and raised during the time it took for them to go out of vogue.

Scientist Supreme! said:
Like people have said, of course there will decline of how many are made but it's never going to be like the western.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I can't really see a situation where superheroes are going to full on lose a whole subgenre due to cultural shifts. Even if westerns came back as a thing, you'd still be missing Cowboys vs Indians as a story archetype.
 
G

Garlador

Member
Cheebo said:
This is a joke post right?

Avengers 2 isn't a super hero movie it's a "robot uprising" movie. What. This can't be real life.


Spielberg didn't write or direct Jurassic World.
Click to expand...

It isn't JUST a superhero movie.

Don't be so narrow-minded. Movies can hit multiple genres and have multiple tones. You can have a kung-fu comedy, or a romantic spy thriller, or a sci fi western.

These are superhero movies... with OTHER genres included.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
Shaanyboi said:
That's an incredibly simplistic and shallow approach. Batman 66 and Dark Knight are also both the same character, but are clearly not doing the same thing.




Ant-Man and Dark Knight are the same damn genre? Beyond there being a protagonist in a costume and an antagonist in a costume, their similarities end there, tonally and thematically.
Click to expand...

uh yeah they're all in the superhero genre. are die hard and last action hero both not action movies?

and that dude is overselling the hell out of marvel's diversity in movies. they've all been blurring together for the most part. what was the difference between the alien invasion movie, the espionage thriller and the space adventure in the end? they all kind of had the same overblown finales.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
Garlador said:
It isn't JUST a superhero movie.

Don't be so narrow-minded. Movies can hit multiple genres and have multiple tones. You can have a kung-fu comedy, or a romantic spy thriller, or a sci fi western.

These are superhero movies... with OTHER genres included.
Click to expand...
It's more the idea that robot uprising is its own genre.
 
T

totoro'd

Member
I don't know about that, not when superhero movies are consistently some of the highest grossing movies of all time, how many westerns are on that list? el zilcho
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
neogaffer1 said:
how is it simplistic? they're both different takes on the same subject. ocean's eleven and heat are both heist movies--they're insanely different in tone and approach. but they're still in the same genre.
Click to expand...
They're also not solely described as heist movies, Ocean's Eleven being a comedy vs. Heat being a crime drama.

Discotheque said:
uh yeah they're all in the superhero genre. are die hard and last action hero both not action movies?

and that dude is overselling the hell out of marvel's diversity in movies. they've all been blurring together for the most part. what was the difference between the alien invasion movie, the espionage thriller and the space adventure in the end? they all kind of had the same overblown finales.
Click to expand...

We don't describe Fury Road as just an action movie. It is, but it's also a post-apocalyptic movie, it's also a chase movie. Granted describing AoU as "robot rebellion movie" is weirdly specific, but it's sure as hell more sci-fi than Daredevil. There are more ways to talk about genre than broad-speaking superficial terms.
 
M

mreddie

Member
bomma_man said:
It has more artistry in one frame than the entire marvel canon combined.


ITT people acting like every western is the same...
Click to expand...

I think these people still think Red Dead Redemption is the best western ever made and never saw the Man with No Name trilogy.
 
H

HeelPower

Member
Its not the same as Western movies.

Superhero formula is far more malleable and can be adapted to fit the needs of its audience and its time.
 
A

Abounder

Banned
Craptastic 4 was the first superhero flop in a while. Ultron was a hit but still disappointed. Spidey went from box office king to MCU merger. Ant-Man is closer to Phase 1 numbers than Phase 2. WB/DC is stumbling to play catch-up. And everyone else is getting passed up by no-names called Guardians of the Galaxy. Supers are still very much thriving, but rely a bit too much on Robert Downey Jr.; and Chris Pratt is on his way to superstardom as well

All that said I think we're living in the presold generation. We want to see annualized franchises like what we see in the yearly bestselling video games list. Waiting 3+ years for sequels and spinoffs just doesn't cut it in this cord cutting world
 
P

Parch

Member
Nairume said:
I feel like it's hard to act like westerns were a bubble when they lasted so long that three full generations of people were born and raised during the time it took for them to go out of vogue.
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking. The western genre was popular for several decades.
If that's the comparison, then superhero movies will last for several decades.
 
M

menacin

Banned
has anyone seen steven without his glasses? any pictures of him without his glasses?

i think i saw him once without his glasses in real life but i wasnt sure because of how strange he looked. maybe that whole superman glasses thing isnt so far fetched
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
totoro'd said:
I don't know about that, not when superhero movies are consistently some of the highest grossing movies of all time, how many westerns are on that list? el zilcho
Click to expand...
Because the western genre died off. Westerns dominated the box office, broke all kinds of records and consistently were some of the top grossing movies of all time for many years. Westerns were just as dominate as super hero movies are today.
 
F

Foggy

Member
It'll definitely have a shorter lifespan of dominance than westerns though and hopefully it doesn't sink the whole industry with it. Or hopefully it does. I waffle on whether I want scorched Hollywood.

bengraven said:
I wish to God the western would come back.
Click to expand...

Then Australia is all you'll ever need nowadays.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
Foggy said:
It'll definitely have a shorter lifespan of dominance than westerns though and hopefully it doesn't sink the whole industry with it. Or hopefully it does. I waffle on whether I want scorched Hollywood.



Then Australia is all you'll ever need nowadays.
Click to expand...
Scorched Hollywood brought us the new wave Hollywood with the likes of Jaws and Star Wars in the later half of the 70s.

The death of the current blockbuster system would result in a similar resetting, it'd would be fantastic.
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
Parch said:
That's what I was thinking. The western genre was popular for several decades.
If that's the comparison, then superhero movies will last for several decades.
Click to expand...

The key for superhero movies to maintain a sustainable level of popularity is diversity. Exploring new visual and thematic approaches, letting others sit on the bench for a while to come back later. Marvel is just about to start getting weird with Dr. Strange, Black Panther, and really exploring the cosmic side of that universe. DC going for a different tonal approach will also help. If WW goes Greek Mythology epic or something, that'll help keep it different from space cop Green Lantern, or a darkly lit streets-of-Gotham Batman movie.
 
B

birthday-suit

Banned
Garlador said:
Here's the thing Spielberg doesn't acknowledge; "Superhero" films are no longer confined to the genre of "superhero" movie.

The MCU is a big testament at how well it endures because all their franchises excel in DIFFERENT areas.

Iron Man 1 is half prison-break, half sci fi action film.
Incredible Hulk is a monster movie.
Captain America: First Avenger is a retro war movie.
Thor 1 and 2 are fantasy films.
Avengers was an alien invasion movie.
Captain America: Winter Soldier is an espionage thriller.
Guardians of the Galaxy was a science fiction space adventure.
Avengers 2 is a robot rebellion film.
Ant-Man is a heist movie.
Daredevil is a gritty street level drama.
Etc.

It's a disservice to brand them all as "superhero" movies when often they're so vastly different from one another. Doctor Strange is going to be vastly different from Black Panther which is going to be entirely different from Captain Marvel and the Inhumans.

That elasticity allows them a lot of flexibility to appeal to a lot of different people who are fans of different genres.

It's why you can be a fan of Guardians of the Galaxy, but not Thor movies, or a fan of Captain America but not Hulk. There's still something there for everyone.
Click to expand...

Cap isn't a war movie. Its a war movie the same way GI Joe is a war movie. As in not really a war movie.
 
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