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Steven Spielberg : Superhero Movies Will Go the Way of the Western
- Thread starter Sanjuro
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davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Westerns are harder to do since they are period pieces. I think we will see a drawback on the "super hero" movie for sure but it'll probably morph into something different since most of the stuff is being made by Marvel and DC and the "original" or indie super hero movies will probably bleed into other genres.
IdreamofHIME
Member
It's a war movie in the same way that Inglorious Basterds and the Dirty Dozen are war movies. As in it's a war movie.
It is a lot more when you consider they are all big budget action movies. Now how much of THAT pie does the 8 account for?
And it's important to note that they started booming at a time when both the target audience and people behind those films included a lot of people who had closer connections to that period of time, either by being the children/grandchildren of people who lived it or having lived it themselves (incidentally, Wyatt Fucking Earp lived to see himself portrayed on the big screen). And then they started tapering off as soon as there were less film makers and moviegoers growing up with the nostalgia of grandad's stories from the old days.
Also when we realized that maybe Cowboy vs Indian stories weren't the best thing to glorify.
quickwhips
Member
Not the same thing and you know it.
RustyNails
Member
Blade 4 needs to come out and make everyone alright in the world again.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Spielberg's not wrong that superhero movies are going to have a finite shelf life, but the problem is that with the mega-budgets superhero movies are working with, and the extremely tight and controlled release schedules, you're not going to have missed gems and interestingB-tier failures like you might if you watched, say, a random sampling of 100 Westerns.
Edit: lol at the "they're all different genres!" post. Perhaps, in a superficial sense, but they are all structured around costumed heroes in big action scenes.
Edit: lol at the "they're all different genres!" post. Perhaps, in a superficial sense, but they are all structured around costumed heroes in big action scenes.
Schweinehund
Member
Why are people so salty about him saying this, he was asked the question and he responded. It's not like he grabbed the mic and made a press conference.
Count Dookkake
Member
Happy trails to you!
Didn't he and Lucas talk about that?
Black-Wind
Member
I really think it's a mistake to look at cape films as a "genre" that people can get tired of. Most people don't know much about many of the comic book characters heading films and see them simply as "action movies" that are sometimes connected through a source material that they can't be bothered to follow.
Cause ... that's really what it is. The only thing on screen these movies have in common is that they are driven by action. Fucking GOTG is a member of the space opera genre (Star Wars, Serenity, Star Trek, Some of the Alien movies and such) where as WS is of the spy/ espionage genre ... Ant Man's apparently a hist movie and Doc Strange is supposed to be more of a surreal thriller IIRC. I think that's something Marvel's been recently shifting towards, making their movies more connected to established genres of films.
Like how most people consider Blade to be what started our current trend of cape movies ... and MOST PEOPLE at the time had no clue it was a "comic book movie" and had no idea he was some character with history with Spider Man and so on. It was just seen as a vampire action movie cause that's what it was.
As long as action flicks are a thing there's a place for movies based on comic books imo.
Cause ... that's really what it is. The only thing on screen these movies have in common is that they are driven by action. Fucking GOTG is a member of the space opera genre (Star Wars, Serenity, Star Trek, Some of the Alien movies and such) where as WS is of the spy/ espionage genre ... Ant Man's apparently a hist movie and Doc Strange is supposed to be more of a surreal thriller IIRC. I think that's something Marvel's been recently shifting towards, making their movies more connected to established genres of films.
Like how most people consider Blade to be what started our current trend of cape movies ... and MOST PEOPLE at the time had no clue it was a "comic book movie" and had no idea he was some character with history with Spider Man and so on. It was just seen as a vampire action movie cause that's what it was.
As long as action flicks are a thing there's a place for movies based on comic books imo.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'm in the minority in that I font believe they'll ever go away. Mainly because they e always been there. They're just a lot better now, hence the explosion in popularity. Comic book movies have been around for 30 years or so as it is.
Superhero movies are the epitome of why people go to the movies. Loud, dumb, mindless action with great special effects. I honestly don't see them dying ever.
They may wane slightly in popularity as the mainstream burn out on them, but while comic book fans exist, superhero movies will also.
Superhero movies are the epitome of why people go to the movies. Loud, dumb, mindless action with great special effects. I honestly don't see them dying ever.
They may wane slightly in popularity as the mainstream burn out on them, but while comic book fans exist, superhero movies will also.
Manmademan
Member
yep. "Superhero" is a very flexible term. The greek and roman gods and heroes were more or less the same thing. You could even extend this to Jesus if you want. there will always be a market for films about people able to do the extraordinary for implausible reasons.
But "going the way of the western?" Spielberg shows he doesn't understand the genre, and not much else. The first truly "blockbuster" superhero movie hit the big screen in 1978 and it was a cultural phenomenon. That's 37 years, Steven- did westerns have that kind of run without running out of steam?
Since then there hasn't been more than 3 or 4 years between a big screen Marvel/DC adaptation- and that's ignoring all of the other properties that are superheroes but rarely viewed as such- Flash Gordon, He-Man, Neo from "The Matrix", Conan the Barbarian, Black Dynamite, Arnold in Terminator 2, The Beastmaster- fuck, even Star Wars is basically a superhero ensemble franchise.
These things aren't going away. They might get grittier (look at the change from batman 66 to Batman 89) but vanishing entirely? not happening. better get used to them.
yep. the marvel/DC stable is so deep and broad just about any story that can be done has been done there. If people get tired of traditional "cape" films like the avengers or superman, there will simply be movies released that people have no idea were comic books in the first place.
Why do superhero movies get singled out so much? I mean between Kingsmen, Spy, Mission Impossible, Man from Uncle, Spectre and whatever else im missing, there's easily more spy movies this year then there are superhero movies. Not to mention plenty of other genres that outnumber superhero movies.
There's what? At most 6 superhero movies coming out next year among the hundreds and hundreds of other kinds of movies coming out next year. It's not like there isnt anything else to watch if you hate superhero movies.
Anyways, Speilberg might be right but im going to enjoy the fuck out of it while it lasts
There's what? At most 6 superhero movies coming out next year among the hundreds and hundreds of other kinds of movies coming out next year. It's not like there isnt anything else to watch if you hate superhero movies.
Anyways, Speilberg might be right but im going to enjoy the fuck out of it while it lasts
Movie release schedules are a bit different. Quantity wise there were probably more westerns.
Sunset Samurai
Member
That resurgent new wave is/has been already happening, it's just on TV now.
Manmademan
Member
Are you sitting down? Kingsman is a comic book adaptation, written by Mark Millar. The same dude who wrote "The ultimates" which was the template for the MCU avengers. He also wrote Wolverine, Spiderman, Fantastic Four, Civil War, the Authority....
it's just as much a comic book movie as Ant Man is.
In fairness, yes.
One of the more popular silent film genres throughout the 10s and 20s, with a slight dip in popularity relegating them to lower budget pulpy films for the early 30s (equivalent to, say, the time between Superman and Batman), and then back to being one of the most popular genres for a solid three or four decades.
Manmademan
Member
"The wild west" as it appears on film is as much of an "actual time and place" as "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away."
"since 1978" was only superhero films as "blockbuster" status. The reign of westerns in that category was much shorter.
Superhero adaptations of pulp comics like Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, The Phantom, The Shadow, and similar not only go back to the silent film era but the era of radio plays before THAT.
Yes, if you literally call every action movie with an overpowered main character a superhero movie I guess they never will go away.
By the same token westerns never went away because there sure are a shitload of movies set in California.
Manmademan
Member
I did no such thing- and the examples I cited are clearly superheroes. Flash Gordon, Conan, and He-Man in particular all had comic books on shelves that predated the film adaptations.
The rest are clearly in the same category- even without comic origins...unless you want to handwave away Neo literally flying out of a phonebooth at the end of the matrix as having absolutely nothing to do with superman.
IrishNinja
Member
shit made zero sense, in an otherwise enjoyable flick
+1
though the few that trickle through haven't been bad (jesse james, true grit etc)
bad enough to hate on the genre, but yeah if i thought TDKR was the pinnacle somehow i'd want it all gone too
GOTG = Daredevil how exactly
Remember when Akira was a thing?
Byakuya769
Member
Only to be replaced by respectable movies based on shounen manga.
Manmademan
Member
it's actually quite odd how no one has managed to make a blockbuster (western) film based on popular manga or anime yet.
The closest i can think of is Speed Racer, and that one is generally not viewed very favorably.
Byakuya769
Member
Yeah, I think it's just hard to translate battle manga visually but when tech gets there and it can be done in a way that doesn't look janky, it's on.
I fell like the defining characteristic of a superhero is their costume. If you extend it to "action character with special powers" then the term is meaningless, and yes, basically every action hero could be considered super.
Comic /=/ superhero either. Comics are a medium not a genre. A history of violence and waltz with bashir are comic book adaptations too but you wouldn't call them superhero movies.
Hopefully JC gets those Avatar sequels finally over with so Battle Angel happens.
quickwhips
Member
I think your just trying to troll me now. So I'm done.
Manmademan
Member
So...daredevil running around with no costume until the last 15 minutes of season 1 means he's not a superhero?
There are many many many many comic book superheroes who do not use costumes- or at least none that look any different than street clothes. This isn't 1950.
LOL. are you comparing the conan series published by Marvel, the He-Man series by DC, or Flash goddamn gordon to "waltz with bashir" or "a history of violence?"
Those are not only "comics", they are clearly in the hero category. How clearly?
comparing these characters to "a history of violence" or "road to perdition" is laughable. What next, are you going to compare Mighty Mouse and MAUS?
edit: and no. By definition a superhero is someone with capabilities far beyond the abilities of regular people, particularly when no one else around him can do the same thing. This doesn't always mean "superpowers"- Punisher for instance only has the power of a seemingly endless supply of bullets.
"All action heroes" don't fall into this category. Bruce willis from Die Hard is clearly not a superhero, just a regular guy who gets lucky. Arnold in Predator? same thing. one of a dozen trained commandoes who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Black Dynamite? a completely different story. That dude rolls through the movie punching his way through solid walls, defying the laws of physics ("I threw that before I entered the room!"), sleeping with an absurd number of women simultaneously and treating bullets as minor inconveniences. Chicago Wind points out how absurd the whole thing is, taunting him by calling him "supernigger".
THAT is clearly a superhero.
Manmademan
Member
Read my above edit. and comics that are "just sci fi or adventure or action" do exist, but I didn't name those.
So..? Last I checked there aren't just big budget action movies.
billy beane
Banned
What is going to replace the Superhero movie though? That's what I wanna know.
I mean I concede he man. But does Conan have superpowers? What's your definition, I'm honestly curious
It did not bomb even though it was a horrible shit film. God awful movie.
Manmademan
Member
They're big budget action movies because that's what sells. There's nothing about superheroes that prevents them from being in any other kind of movie.
Ant Man for instance didn't even need to have fight scenes at all. It would have worked equally well as a pure comedy/heist movie which it pretty much was.
Manmademan
Member
Holy shit yes. Did you see those movies? Conan especially in those films is presented as VASTLY more powerful, intelligent, and skilled than everyone else in the country, if not farther than that- armed with a sword so advanced people literally went to war over the technology used to make it.
He's basically the medieval Batman in "Barbarian" and even worse in "Destroyer" where he literally kills a god with his bare hands.
Edit: I own the momoa "Conan" film but honestly remember absolutely nothing about it.
Pizza Booty
Banned
I can not wait. So tired of super hero movies at this point. Haven't bothered with any of them in years.
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