Um, er, feminists are about equality too.
... though this helps me understand where you're coming from.
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Street Fighter V ESRB: Female characters' breasts jiggle during character selection
- Thread starter miku
- Start date
Um, er, feminists are about equality too.
... though this helps me understand where you're coming from.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Im just going to assume alotof you guys aren't in the US because these video game characters have nothing on some real life females come on down to Pa ill show you guys a good time(it wont be a good time your eyes will burn and have u praising something like r.mika in a second.
Ye im joking..eh sort of
Stallion Dan
Member
Not this ridiculous double standard again. The SF freaks are not power fantasies anymore than a roided up body builder is.
Fuz
Banned
Hate to go off topic, but "worst"? It's definitely the best animated sprite of her based on quality and fluidity. Or are you one of those guys who go "OMG Mai is such a dumb joke. BOOBZ! WE GET IT"
No, I can't stand her new standing pose and a few changes to animations.
Yes, that's exactly my point.
Everyone has a different threshold, I just don't want to rest of the world to adapt to my personal level of tolerance. I'm up for diversity.
Edit: Holy shit, this thread move FAST. You guys sure like boobs.
I love Mai. And in KOF I can choose between lots of female characters like Whip, King, Chizuru, Xiangfei, Athena, Kula, etc. And not only of the massively breasted kind.
You're so defensive about digital breasts, lol.
When you use (straight) male gaze in places when you would normally use neutral gaze, you're sending messages that it's the correct/default way to perceive things (and thus you're an outsider if you don't.) That's an issue. SF4 doesn't have this issue because the camera stays neutral the whole time and isn't trying to zoom in like a 12yo discovering porn on the internet for the first time.
Seriously if you're at work clicking a topic about breasts in a video game...lol
Yeah, feminists =/= feminazis/radical feminists
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yes, because when developers make THIS, they're aiming for "real life" and not, you know, boners.
That's the thing, if it got that result it did a good job fooling the brain that it's not something that it couldn't have or shouldn't desire.
RelentlessRolento
Member
It's all kinds of wrong that i am enjoying this thread. I feel more and less human because of it.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
What he do wrong?
Didn't see this earlier, wow, seriously? lol
What's the issue? There's nothing wrong with sex. I think your employer has a problem with sex and nudity! :^)
Trickster
Member
Ignoring the whole "it's a bug" thing. The only issue I have with potential fanservice stuff like this, is if it's only the female characters that have it to a disproportionate degree. I'd welcome the addition of more stuff like bearded ryu that seems to have caught a portion of the audience.
Obviously that's not to say there aren't games where I would prefeer no or almost no overly obvious fanservice stuff. But in a game as unserious as street fighter, I really don't care, just give me over the top vibrant characters of both genders. And if that means women (men too for all I care, that would be just as hilarious as when Mika does it) like Mika who slaps her own ass, or Hot Ryu, then I think that's just fine.
Obviously that's not to say there aren't games where I would prefeer no or almost no overly obvious fanservice stuff. But in a game as unserious as street fighter, I really don't care, just give me over the top vibrant characters of both genders. And if that means women (men too for all I care, that would be just as hilarious as when Mika does it) like Mika who slaps her own ass, or Hot Ryu, then I think that's just fine.
Fuz
Banned
I always forget that quite a big share of this forum isn't able to elaborate humor.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Going to go on a tangent, though it's Street Fighter related.
My best friend is a pretty big feminist gamer. She loves games and we talk about them every day for hours on end.
Anime adaptations of video games have existed for years and years... and with them come lots and LOTS of gratuitous fanservice for the female characters.
Particularly fighting games. It seems EVERY fighting game anime I've ever seen has a pointless, gratuitous shower scene for one of its ladies. Fatal Fury, Battle Arena Toshiden, Tekken, and many others.
Street Fighter II: The Animated Movie has one too with Chun-li.
But my friend pointed something out to me about why she loves the Chun-li shower scene but not the others: the context.
In the other animes, there is NO POINT to the shower scenes and nudity. They're non sequitur that have no bearing on the plot, characters, or anything going on around them. The camera lingers on their bodies and just lets viewers enjoy the fanservice.
But Street Fighter did something different; Chun-li's shower is when she thinks she's alone... but isn't. The music isn't sexy... it's creepy. All while she showers, we see there is an assassin, Vega, in her home, and he's there to kill her. He spies on her in the shower... and it's from that perspective we see Chun-li, not in a "sexy" moment but in a moment of vulnerability. She's prey and he's the predator, and he's more concerned with stabbing her to death than he is about enjoying the view.
It's straight out of Hitchcock's PSYCHO, and the scene serves to heighten tension as Chun-li is at her must vulnerable.
Then, where the nudity and fanservice serve only to titillate in those other animes, keeping their women sexy and smooth, Street Fighter takes the scene and gives us one of the most brutal, awesome animated fight scenes in history.
Vega goes in for the kill and instead finds Chun-li more than capable of fighting him off, even weaponless in nothing but a nightgown.
But while she's in a nightgown, the film doesn't focus on how "sexy" she is. It's more concerned with her fighting for her very life.
It's bloody. It's messy. It makes you cringe. They're KILLING each other.
That's why we both like it and hate the other examples so much. In those other animes, the fanservice is pointless and exists to arouse the viewer. But in this case, it sets up Chun-li's attack, shows her at her most vulnerable, spied on through the very eyes of her assailant, and then shows her fighting BACK against the very person who violated her privacy and security.
Look at this scary, badass woman.
It's one of the most kickass sequences in anime history.
You want to do "sexy" right? You do it like this. By the end of that sequence, Chun-li had become one of my favorite video game characters of all time, and I've mained her ever since.
We both watched that sequences and didn't think "wow, she's so sexy. Look at her sexy boobs. She looks great in that underwear." We thought, "hot DAMN, she kicks ALL the ass!"
I'm amazed how few people can manage to pull that off. To turn something "sexy and shallow" into something substantial and amazing.
And if anybody is willing to disagree, I'll just throw a f***ing couch at them.
My best friend is a pretty big feminist gamer. She loves games and we talk about them every day for hours on end.
Anime adaptations of video games have existed for years and years... and with them come lots and LOTS of gratuitous fanservice for the female characters.
Particularly fighting games. It seems EVERY fighting game anime I've ever seen has a pointless, gratuitous shower scene for one of its ladies. Fatal Fury, Battle Arena Toshiden, Tekken, and many others.
Street Fighter II: The Animated Movie has one too with Chun-li.
But my friend pointed something out to me about why she loves the Chun-li shower scene but not the others: the context.
In the other animes, there is NO POINT to the shower scenes and nudity. They're non sequitur that have no bearing on the plot, characters, or anything going on around them. The camera lingers on their bodies and just lets viewers enjoy the fanservice.
But Street Fighter did something different; Chun-li's shower is when she thinks she's alone... but isn't. The music isn't sexy... it's creepy. All while she showers, we see there is an assassin, Vega, in her home, and he's there to kill her. He spies on her in the shower... and it's from that perspective we see Chun-li, not in a "sexy" moment but in a moment of vulnerability. She's prey and he's the predator, and he's more concerned with stabbing her to death than he is about enjoying the view.
It's straight out of Hitchcock's PSYCHO, and the scene serves to heighten tension as Chun-li is at her must vulnerable.
Then, where the nudity and fanservice serve only to titillate in those other animes, keeping their women sexy and smooth, Street Fighter takes the scene and gives us one of the most brutal, awesome animated fight scenes in history.
Vega goes in for the kill and instead finds Chun-li more than capable of fighting him off, even weaponless in nothing but a nightgown.
But while she's in a nightgown, the film doesn't focus on how "sexy" she is. It's more concerned with her fighting for her very life.
It's bloody. It's messy. It makes you cringe. They're KILLING each other.
That's why we both like it and hate the other examples so much. In those other animes, the fanservice is pointless and exists to arouse the viewer. But in this case, it sets up Chun-li's attack, shows her at her most vulnerable, spied on through the very eyes of her assailant, and then shows her fighting BACK against the very person who violated her privacy and security.
Look at this scary, badass woman.
It's one of the most kickass sequences in anime history.
You want to do "sexy" right? You do it like this. By the end of that sequence, Chun-li had become one of my favorite video game characters of all time, and I've mained her ever since.
We both watched that sequences and didn't think "wow, she's so sexy. Look at her sexy boobs. She looks great in that underwear." We thought, "hot DAMN, she kicks ALL the ass!"
I'm amazed how few people can manage to pull that off. To turn something "sexy and shallow" into something substantial and amazing.
And if anybody is willing to disagree, I'll just throw a f***ing couch at them.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The scene before that is a shower scene
edit: context yeah, but laura and mika are fine in context.
cammy is the odd one always has been
edit: context yeah, but laura and mika are fine in context.
cammy is the odd one always has been
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Forgot she threw that couch, cot damn lol
That movie is still the shit
That movie is still the shit
Doogington
Member
I hate to be that guy but source?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
No clue just googled jiggly boobs :lol
Yes, and I explained how the shower scene sets up the tension. It's thriller territory. It cuts back frequently to Vega moving in the shows, spying on her, getting into position, Guile trying to contact her but being unable to.
It's meant to be CREEPY. A killer, lying in wait while his victim showers... Where have I seen that before?
That's what makes the Chun-li shower scene more effective than the others, because it has a point.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
None of this has anything to do with jiggly boobs being bad though if anything it's saying highlighting traits and fears of women make the characters more badass given who they fight. Every SF female is badass/cool in a fight and the sexiness has a double purpose.
Ibuki for instance is a playful, busty ninja girl looking for a boyfriend, once the fight starts instant serious badass ninja action.
Jiggly boobs and gratuitous shower scenes both fall under fanservice.
The two often go hand in hand because they exist to serve the SAME PURPOSE.
I merely gave an example of how you can take that and use it in an incredibly effective way that enhances a moment or character.
But how they're portrayed affects how other people view them. I watch the Chun-li vs Vega fight and the emphasis is on how great of a fighter she is. The camera lens isn't leering; it's methodical. Her poses aren't seductive, they're "come at me, bro! I'll mess you up!" stances.
She's still sexy. It's why she can be just as sexy in her game costume as she is in a nightgown.
But there's a HUGE difference between this:
and this:
Now, both of them are good fighters, but one of them was portrayed with a lens that said "look at how great she fights" while another is portrayed with a lens of "look how sexy she is and how big her boobs are!"
Ivy is a good fighter too... but how the women are treated and what traits are focused on is a night and day difference.
Splatterpunk
Member
Considering this is a thread about the objectification of women in games, it might just be a teensy bit inappropriate. Maybe, I dunno, practice a little self control and resist the urge to hit on someone cause she mentioned that she has breasts?
It's mentioned constantly. But that doesn't mean she wasn't wearing purple dental floss in SCIV...
The existence of a more conservative Ivy in SCV doesn't excuse the existence of the one in SCIV. It merely course-corrects a hilariously awful, oversexed design.
SolidSnakex
Member
I still think part of the problem with male sexualization is that there's no real standard for what they actually means. A good example of that is Hot Ryu. Based on Capcom's response to him, they really didn't know that the design would be so popular. It just seemed like they did that design to fit an older version of Ryu that's more "grizzled". So he lost his top and has a beard to reflect that. But you'll sometimes have people point out that a certain male character seems to be sexualized, and then someone will say that they're meant to be goofy or they're a male power fantasy. So what is and isn't male sexualization seems to be much more narrow than what is and isn't female sexualization.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Focusing on something already changed makes people take points a bit less seriously.
sc4 ivy was undoubtedly horrible
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
If make sexualistation was anywhere near as common or explicit as the images a couple pages back you'd have a point. You don't see the issue in tolerating or displaying apathy towards one of the industry's biggest issues when it comes to female representation?
Should be noticed that there are TWO versions of this scene ... the japanese ones the camera focus way too much on her body and it is not intended as "creepy" as the usa version ... which ends up being more creepy
That Mika gif in the opening looks fairly normal jiggle. Though that Chun-Li one that was posted is that bug which is obviously over the top jiggle.
The animations in this game are beautiful.
On that we can agree.
Relevant to the conversation, Cammy evolution :
Dat Cammy upgrade.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
more of a repair
"Changed"... but it's not exactly like SCV Ivy wasn't still sexualized to a ridiculous degree.
Own both uncut. The Japanese version is still pretty creepy for the same reasons; it's just missing the creepy music because the American version had a new soundtrack. The scenes play out exactly the same and still has that stalker-vibe going on. Only the PG-13 edited version was really any different.
Basketball
Member
The problem we have here is clash of ideals and what people want in games. You say these little things add to the overall sexist culture in games. What's your solution?
"We want less of it in our games ... We're not saying total removal (some are) but we want less"
Other side: " We don't want less of it, or it does not bother me cuz fun videogames "
Who do developers listen to ? The loudest on twitter?
Some developers pay attention
others don't give a shit and try to make fun games
Rinse/Repeat ... Another thread with the same folks over and over
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
They're power fantasies because the intent when designing them wasn't "sexy" or "the female gaze." All you need to do is look at Capcom's puzzled reaction to what the fanbase has called Hot Ryu™ They're intention wasn't and rarely ever is "we're making him sexy." There's a ton of other things as well, like the camera work, we don't get zoomed in shots of Ryu or Zangief's abs for instance.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a feminist, you're using it here as if there's an inherent negative meaning behind it.
Progress is made when people's opinions change. Or they just, you know, grow up and mature a little bit and realize that "sex is all that matters! Boobs for life!" in their formative years aren't the end-all, be-all that a woman can offer.
Change IS happening. And developers are taking note.
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
I'm getting really tired of Japanese games and their juvenile over-sexualization of female characters. It's seriously embarrassing playing these games in front of other people sometimes.
JAV Actress
Banned
I imagine 99% of the time it's probably embarrassing to play video games in front of other human beings if not being streamed.
Are you trying to make a point? You aren't doing it very well.
Karsticles
Member
Diora Baird.
Also, as the husband of a woman with very large breasts, they jiggle around a ton.
My wife will be shocked to hear that then.
"Ma'am, you can't wear that uniform here at the hospital. It's unprofessional."
"What, do you have a problem with sex?!"
Context goes a long way...
I wonder how many times Ronda Rousey has been shot with an arrow since she doesn't wear a full suit of armor.
I hate this statement.
Bro, you could be playing the most mature and mild safe game there is and people would still judge you..
because it is a GAME. There are a lot of people out there who believe gaming is for children (despite the who bu-but the stats say..) and think less of you because of that.
SF is a game in which a spiky hair asian dude yells HADOUKEN and shoots fire balls out of his hands. Chances are the same people who'd actually judge you for having tits on the screen would judge for having Ryu being Ryu.
and honestly being this insecure about doing something you like...is more childish than the thing you are are afraid of showing people.
Basketball
Member
What is the end game ?
If progress is being made and there are games that those people approve of already exist and are being developed now . What is the top goal?
To stamp out t/a/cheesecake in games all together? To have an industry where exaggeration/fantasy is few and far between ?
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Are you really trying to claim that straight up simply playing a video game is equally embarrassing to people seeing you playing a game with huge jiggling tits? There's a world of difference and one of them extends into debauchery. Playing Mario Galaxy or Tales of Zestiria or whatever kiddy or Japanesey non-mainstream game you're playing is not equally embarrassing to playing Dead or Alive 5 or even Soul Calibur.