Melchiah
Member
i just dont understand what makes people root for something to fail so bad
Never visited Driveclub or The Order: 1886 threads, when they failed at launch both critically and commercially?
i just dont understand what makes people root for something to fail so bad
Absolutely this.
The story was just wrong wrong wrong. 343 seriously mishandled just about every story beat possible ... And what they did with Cortana was absolutely insulting especially after how lovingly they handled her send off in Halo 4.
The actual gameplay of the campaign (minus the stupid repeat boss fights) was okay... Though the Prometheans really aren't fun enemies to fight.
I don't know how 343 fixes this.
And to the guy earlier calling them a mediocre developer... Wow, I don't know what you're smoking, but I want some. They pulled off the series best PVP with Halo 5's arena mode. A mediocre dev couldn't have done that.
If I were in charge, I would cancel the small Halo projects (Spartan Assault, etc.) and start devoting that time to new IP to try to attract new fans.
I disagree with the "new IP" route. Halo is an amazing IP that's being mishandled in many ways.
The mismatch in the marketing campaign with the actual campaign being a real issue.
I'll admit, based on Hunt the Truth and the Chief vs. Locke commercials, and the Sprint web series: I was foaming at the mouth ready to play some Halo 5.
And then the reviews came out, and the campaign happened and fucking REQ packs and that wrecked it for me.
There was so much hype in this big showdown...but it never happens. Chief with the poncho and the empty Cortana chip
..and... It... Never...happens. People talk about story stuff from the trailers in Destiny never happening... Halo 5 is guilty as well.
Basically what I'm saying is, 343 needs to get whoever is working on their hype machine working on their game campaign. ASAP.
343 just outdid Bungie in the MP department big time. I dunno if you played destiny, but that MP is mostly horrible an unbalanced. If the game wasnt designed for addicts, no one would touch that MP.
- Franchise fatigue
- Increased reliance on EU novels for storytelling
- REQ Packs
- The associated platform (XB1) not being the console of choice for many this gen
- Significant changes to "Halo" gameplay mechanics (Sprinting, ADS etc)
- Misleading marketing
- Lack of splitscreen co-op
- Poor Boss/encounter design in the campaign
- Lack of content compared to prior releases
- Lack of visual flair associated with past entires due to a concerted push for 60 fps
- Visually unimpressive maps
- Poor map/level design
- Issues with map variety
- Bait and switch on the story from a marketing perspective
- More robust competition in the genre (CoD, Battlefront, Battlefield etc)
- Concerted effort to change the series' iconic main protagonist by putting players in the shoes of a newcomer for the vast majority of the game's campaign.
- E-sports focus that drove many design decisions and changes in gameplay
- Aging fan population with less time to game
- The technical issues with MCC made people reluctant to purchase Halo 5 or just soured them on the franchise/developer in general
- The rapid decline in player population for Halo 4 was actual a sign of significant decline in the fanbase for the franchise going forward.
- The move of the franchise to a different developer than its original creators
This is a scenario that usually sucks for developers, especially on flagship properties, but was actually significantly exacerbated by this generation.
For how this was dealt with in previous generations, let's take Prince of Persia.
Near the end of the PS2 era, Ubisoft knew that Prince of Persia had to change to maintain relevance, but didn't know what path to take, so they started up two different projects. One was Prince of Persia 2008, and the other was Prince of Persia: Assassins, a game better known as Assassin's Creed after they decided it was so different that they might as well make it a new IP.
While (traditional) Prince of Persia ended up dying, the evolution the IP effectively went through created a major breakthrough for both the series and Ubisoft as a company.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, we can look at XCOM. Take-Two acquired the XCOM IP and started up two projects. One was a traditional XCOM game by Firaxis, the other was a completely new take on the IP by Irrational Games Boston, then later given to Irrational Games Australia when Irrational Boston moved on to BioShock Infinite, then later given to 2K Marin when Irrational Games Australia struggled with the project and was pulled on to BioShock Infinite as well.
Firaxis' game took four years to make and was a good success. The XCOM reboot took seven years and was a complete flop.
However, in 2015, you don't really have 300 people to sit around making the safe sequel and another 300 sitting around to make the risky sequel, so you end up having to choose. It's also never clear which option is the best choice, since you don't want to fade to irrelevance, but you also don't want to jump off a cliff.
I need to push back a little on people saying others just having a problem with the story.
It's the campaign itself.
The bosses (all 9 of them), the pointless hubs, half or so of the levels, the baffling final Blue Team mission. There's a lot wrong with it, IMO.
.
I don't know how 343 fixes this.
And to the guy earlier calling them a mediocre developer... Wow, I don't know what you're smoking, but I want some. They pulled off the series best PVP with Halo 5's arena mode. A mediocre dev couldn't have done that.
Right, let me be clear. I think that the digital split was around 30-40% on launch week, which if true, put the launch around Halo 2 numbers, just short if I remember rightly.
I need to push back a little on people saying others just having a problem with the story.
It's the campaign itself.
The bosses (all 9 of them), the pointless hubs, half or so of the levels, the baffling final Blue Team mission. There's a lot wrong with it, IMO.
So I found this from Superdata. No mention of Halo 5, though why in the world is FIFA 15 in the Console Top 5? Cosmic, can Superdata be trusted?
So now that we have moved on to atually discussing the game, the sales and the future of the franchise I'd like to ask a question.
What do you feel is the primary cause for the sales decline we have seen with Halo 5?
Some of the contributing factors that have been noted in this thread thus far have been
- Franchise fatigue
- Increased reliance on EU novels for storytelling
- REQ Packs
- The associated platform (XB1) not being the console of choice for many this gen
- Significant changes to "Halo" gameplay mechanics (Sprinting, ADS etc)
- Misleading marketing
- Lack of splitscreen co-op
- Poor Boss/encounter design in the campaign
- Lack of content compared to prior releases
- Lack of visual flair associated with past entires due to a concerted push for 60 fps
- Visually unimpressive maps
- Poor map/level design
- Issues with map variety
- Bait and switch on the story from a marketing perspective
- More robust competition in the genre (CoD, Battlefront, Battlefield etc)
- Concerted effort to change the series' iconic main protagonist by putting players in the shoes of a newcomer for the vast majority of the game's campaign.
- E-sports focus that drove many design decisions and changes in gameplay
- Aging fan population with less time to game
- The technical issues with MCC made people reluctant to purchase Halo 5 or just soured them on the franchise/developer in general
- The rapid decline in player population for Halo 4 was actual a sign of significant decline in the fanbase for the franchise going forward.
- The move of the franchise to a different developer than its original creators
For the record I'm not saying I agree with all these points they are just the ones that I can recall being brought up thus far. Of course if you can't really narrow things down to a single primary factor please highlight two or three. Then please elaborate why you feel that this has (or these have) been a prevalent driving factor(s) in the sales decline we have seen for the series.
Personally I think the exclusion of splitscreen was the biggest contributing factor as many of the remaining fanbase saw this as a core feature of the franchise. I'm still not sure why this decision was made except in the effort to potentially push more sales of consoles so that friends could play the game together online instead of using one console. I think its fairly obvious that did not work if that was the reasoning. It seems to me that many fans really took the exclusion of this feature as a sign that Halo just isn't Halo anymore and as a result just decided not to buy the game and possibly abandon the series altogether.It also didnt help that the Halo fanbase tends to be a bit older these days so this change really eliminated any play 343 had at nostalgia with a lot of these older folks who associated the series with splitscreen.
Yes before you respond I know they said it had to do with the switch to 60fps but I just don't buy that. There is no way their engine is completely unscalable or that they couldnt have utilized the various methods they used to maintain 60fps to also allow for split screen (texture resolution scaling, dynamic resolution, dynamic shadow detail, etc etc). They had lots of tools to use here in order to make it possible even if they couldn't (for some unknown reason) reduce the framerate to 30fps instead of 60.
I need to push back a little on people saying others just having a problem with the story.
It's the campaign itself.
The bosses (all 9 of them), the pointless hubs, half or so of the levels, the baffling final Blue Team mission. There's a lot wrong with it, IMO.
Thank you for adding that 7:3 scenario.
I'm going with that. Awesome stuff.
So you think it'll be somewhere around 30%? Thats significantly higher than the industry average of 20%. 30% would be the absolute highest digital ratio I would expect to see.
Well, there's a few factors in my calculation of the overall picture:
- personally I think my numbers are conservative, looking at how aggressive MS is willing to be with big titles that they're very confident in. Like I said, I put 1.3 for US+ Canada, but my own gut feel is 1.5 for US alone. Of course, I can't justify that since it's tales from the arse.
- my numbers don't account for higher revenue contributions from Europe, where the exchange rate increases the overall revenue per SKU.
Personally I think 22-25% in the launch week is where I'd peg it.
Yep. I was thinking along pretty much the same lines. Great work on those tables by the way. A bit confusing at first glance but I understand what they are getting at now.
So now that we have moved on to atually discussing the game, the sales and the future of the franchise I'd like to ask a question.
What do you feel is the primary cause for the sales decline we have seen with Halo 5?
Some of the contributing factors that have been noted in this thread thus far have been
You think Superdata is that bad huh? You have to admit though it's a pretty good name.Pure guessing>>>>>>>>chartz>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sd
and lol and behold, the numbers actually look reasonable!
Yea. The engine wasn't designed for spilt screen was the reason it couldn't handle it. It's such a cop out excuse by 343. It just wasn't a priority for them.
Changes to the formula and the H4/MCC train wrecks are the main causes for the decline imo.
Anecdotal but that's the feedback I'm getting to the changes from online/real-life friends that I played H2/3 with. H4 turned a lot of my friends off the series and the MCC seems to have been the final blow for some. I'm not sure why I even stick around with Halo (especially after the MCC) after how much the changes have annoyed me since 343 took over, maybe because Halo has been such a big part of my gaming life (and why I play games today) that I feel compelled to buy the next game.
Pure guessing>>>>>>>>chartz>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sd
The digital FUD is just frustrating to read.
Even without doing these tables, off the top of my head I was SMH at all these hurr durr 50% digital bullshit because even the rough calculations of a 50% digital ratio would mean a revenue of least 500-600 million.
I hope I am not coming across as arrogant here. It's not like I'm expecting everyone to analysis it the way I did. But a lot of the defense of Halo's digital potential MAKES NO FINANCIAL SENSE AT ANYTHING ABOVE 30% because then it contradicts MS's own 400 million ceiling.
So you see, y'all who thinks GameStop is lying? It's entirely possible for GameStop to be telling the truth just as MS did with its 400 million figure, and lol and behold, the numbers actually look reasonable!
lol and behold
Can you clarify specifically what changes to the formula you are reffering to? Which ones do you feel had the biggest negative impact? I think you are totally right about MCC being the final straw/nail in the coffin for lots of fans. They really really screwed the franchise over by releasing it in the state it was in.
Most people I know liked the original Halo formula (no AA's, sprint, etc.) and feel like it's become too similar to other FPS's on the market. It's hard to narrow it down to one specific change as the majority of them just say that it doesn't feel like Halo; although in my opinion sprint has had the biggest negative impact as it changed the map design and how the game flows compared to the original trilogy.
343 have at least backpedaled on most of the stuff they introduced in H4 but it's probably too late for a lot of fans. To this day it boggles my mind that 343 doubled down (and went 10 steps further) on the formula Bungie introduced in Reach even after seeing the negative reactions to the changes.
Most people I know liked the original Halo formula (no AA's, sprint, etc.) and feel like it's become too similar to other FPS's on the market. It's hard to narrow it down to one specific change as the majority of them just say that it doesn't feel like Halo; although in my opinion sprint has had the biggest negative impact as it changed the map design and how the game flows compared to the original trilogy.
343 have at least backpedaled on most of the stuff they introduced in H4 but it's probably too late for a lot of fans. To this day it boggles my mind that 343 doubled down (and went 10 steps further) on the formula Bungie introduced in Reach even after seeing the negative reactions to the changes.
Halo 5 is a pretty good game, and a lot of people are enjoying it. Don't understand the doom and gloom. For an exclusive title the numbers will come out just fine (especially compared to other exclusives)
So now that we have moved on to atually discussing the game, the sales and the future of the franchise I'd like to ask a question.
What do you feel is the primary cause for the sales decline we have seen with Halo 5?
Some of the contributing factors that have been noted in this thread thus far have been
For the record I'm not saying I agree with all these points they are just the ones that I can recall being brought up thus far. Of course if you can't really narrow things down to a single primary factor please highlight two or three. Then please elaborate why you feel that this has (or these have) been a prevalent driving factor(s) in the sales decline we have seen for the series.
Snip
Most people I know liked the original Halo formula (no AA's, sprint, etc.) and feel like it's become too similar to other FPS's on the market. It's hard to narrow it down to one specific change as the majority of them just say that it doesn't feel like Halo; although in my opinion sprint has had the biggest negative impact as it changed the map design and how the game flows compared to the original trilogy.
343 have at least backpedaled on most of the stuff they introduced in H4 but it's probably too late for a lot of fans. To this day it boggles my mind that 343 doubled down (and went 10 steps further) on the formula Bungie introduced in Reach even after seeing the negative reactions to the changes.
What the fuck is going on here, no time to read all but glanced through. I dont know whats upsetting more. People who believes Halo is still the juggernaut it once was? Or the people who fail to acknowledge its still sells better than any first party game even the completion? Or people who who genuinely think Halo is dead?
On th side, why would GS even know or have any idea about how much MS or Sony sells on their digital store? What the fucking fuck? lol
on the very side note, Halo 5 is so good man. Best playing halo since Halo 2.
What do you mean?
I'd say it's highly likely more than probably.He will probably end up wrong here. if the sales are right near 900k plus 200k whatever (digital)
I think there will be first party games on both beating this more than likely and have in the past.
Well they forgot to make a social playlist and only focused on the hardcore so I guess they are still struggling to figure out that market balanceThis is also the first Halo designed specifically for esports. You have to remember that "competitive Halo" was a complete accident and that Bungie themselves worked against making the game hardcore competitive as time went on, for fear of alienating a large part of their market. While I too am enjoying the return to a more competitive game, you have to remember that people have been telling Bungie/343 for over ten years what to do to make it this way. This is the only installment where they listened.
He will probably end up wrong here. if the sales are right near 900k plus 200k whatever (digital)
I think there will be first party games on both beating this more than likely and have in the past.
-sigh- you know, not that it'll make a difference, but just to be clear, I didn't actually claim the xbone could sell to 1% of china's population, reviewtechusa did and I was an idiot for thinking it was a reasonable prediction. and it's haunted me (on the gaf) ever since.That's it, I give up. You're free to believe Halo 5 had a 900% digital sales figure if it helps you sleep at night. Frankly, I never met anyone on this forum as stubborn as you. The Artisan made a ridiculous claim of the XB1 selling to 1% of China's population, which remains a meme to this day, but at least he was willing to learn from his mistakes. With you, it's a never ending cycle of your own beliefs. You're like the Sales GAF equivalent of thelastword.
-sigh- you know, not that it'll make a difference, but just to be clear, I didn't actually claim the xbone could sell to 1% of china's population, reviewtechusa did and I was an idiot for thinking it was a reasonable prediction. and it's haunted me (on the gaf) ever since.
I pretty much agree with almost all of this.Most people I know liked the original Halo formula (no AA's, sprint, etc.) and feel like it's become too similar to other FPS's on the market. It's hard to narrow it down to one specific change as the majority of them just say that it doesn't feel like Halo; although in my opinion sprint has had the biggest negative impact as it changed the map design and how the game flows compared to the original trilogy.
343 have at least backpedaled on most of the stuff they introduced in H4 but it's probably too late for a lot of fans. To this day it boggles my mind that 343 doubled down (and went 10 steps further) on the formula Bungie introduced in Reach even after seeing the negative reactions to the changes.
-sigh- you know, not that it'll make a difference, but just to be clear, I didn't actually claim the xbone could sell to 1% of china's population, reviewtechusa did and I was an idiot for thinking it was a reasonable prediction. and it's haunted me (on the gaf) ever since.
Pure guessing>>>>>>>>chartz>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sd
The fact that HaloGAF thinks things like reticle bloom and sprint are the cause of Halo's mainstream sales decline is perpetually hilarious to me.