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College Football Week 14 - Last Chance (For Chaos)

D

Draxal

Member
chicko1983 said:
What is going on with these Nkemdiche boys?

First Denzel was having health related problems (I suspected drugs).

Now, Robert with this.

Pretty disappointing.
Click to expand...

Robert's recruitment was extremely fishy, I think one of the Clemson boys could explain this better than I can.
 
A

Azwethinkweiz

Member
Draxal said:
Robert's recruitment was extremely fishy, I think one of the Clemson boys could explain this better than I can.
Click to expand...

It wasn't fishy. He was just committed to Clemson. And then his mom, who was a politician in Africa and hadn't been in the US or in their lives for years, comes back, tells everyone that he IS NOT committed to Clemson, and that he'll be going to Ole Miss with his brother. Now, thankfully politicians can't be bought and the SEC, especially Ole Miss, has a reputation for clean recruiting practices, so I'm sure the whole thing was on the up and up.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Azwethinkweiz said:
It wasn't fishy. He was just committed to Clemson. And then his mom, who was a politician in Africa and hadn't been in the US or in their lives for years, comes back, tells everyone that he IS NOT committed to Clemson, and that he'll be going to Ole Miss with his brother. Now, thankfully politicians can't be bought and the SEC, especially Ole Miss, has a reputation for clean recruiting practices, so I'm sure the whole thing was on the up and up.
Click to expand...

Ah, right, thanks for clearing that up. And here I thought there was an outside chance at some sort of recruiting scandal, when in reality it was just a mother doing what was best for her child. Silly me.
 
A

andycapps

Member
chaosblade said:
Ah, right, thanks for clearing that up. And here I thought there was an outside chance at some sort of recruiting scandal, when in reality it was just a mother doing what was best for her child. Silly me.
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I'm sure Ole Miss started signing top 5 recruiting classes all of a sudden because Hugh Freeze is a great recruiter.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
andycapps said:
It's not East Coast bias so much as it is lack of exposure due to the games being so late, as you mentioned. There's ignorance of something, and there's dislike for the sake of bias. This is more the former. People just don't know about him. I don't know much about him, honestly. What I've seen looks really good, and his numbers speak for themselves.

The SEC only has a few pro-style offenses, most are spread. I don't see how it's really that much different than the PAC-12. You can't watch PAC-12 and SEC games and think that the defenses are on the same level across the board. Stanford always has a good defense as does Washington, and there's a few other decent ones. There are some great defensive standouts on the teams in the PAC-12, no doubt, the problem is the lack of talent across the board on defense. That or the lack of quality coaching, not sure.

Cupcake games, sure. I'd like to see a 9 game conference schedule in the SEC and no FCS teams scheduled. I think the latter is coming sooner than later.

Regarding defensive stats, you can get breakdowns of total defense or scoring defense against power 5 teams, or FBS teams only on cfbstats. The numbers are what they are. Defenses aren't as good in the PAC-12.
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I think it's a mix of ignorance and bias. I certainly rolled them together and you're right to note that, but I certainly think bias comes into play as well. I'm confident that if McCaffrey played for, say, USC or Oregon he would've won.

And while I'd say the SEC defenses are probably better in general, I'd also say the Pac-12 offenses are better, or at least more diverse, in general. I don't mean just pro vs spread, I mean the level of ability on each side. QB play in the SEC is really poor, for instance. But obviously these arguments could go around in circles. Finally, I think the Pac-12 was deeper than the SEC this year -- while the absolute ceiling for quality might have been lower, the floor was also higher. Other than Oregon State, basically any team could beat any other team in the conference. In that state of things, I think McCaffrey's numbers stand out even more.

Ah, well. Thanks for the thoughtful post in response.
 
A

andycapps

Member
timetokill said:
I think it's a mix of ignorance and bias. I certainly rolled them together and you're right to note that, but I certainly think bias comes into play as well. I'm confident that if McCaffrey played for, say, USC or Oregon he would've won.

And while I'd say the SEC defenses are probably better in general, I'd also say the Pac-12 offenses are better, or at least more diverse, in general. I don't mean just pro vs spread, I mean the level of ability on each side. QB play in the SEC is really poor, for instance. But obviously these arguments could go around in circles. Finally, I think the Pac-12 was deeper than the SEC this year -- while the absolute ceiling for quality might have been lower, the floor was also higher. Other than Oregon State, basically any team could beat any other team in the conference. In that state of things, I think McCaffrey's numbers stand out even more.

Ah, well. Thanks for the thoughtful post in response.
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You may be right about if McCaffrey were on USC or Oregon that he'd have won, but I'm not sure he'd have been a slam dunk then either. He got quite a bit of the vote so he should feel pretty good about that. What year is he? The time zone really hurts, as did Henry being on Bama.

The problem as always in determining who is better in offense or defense it's that, are the QBs in the PAC-12 that great or are the defenses they're going against really poor? I think it's a little of both in all cases. Definitely some great QB's on the west coast.

Agree with you about conference depth, SEC was very top heavy this year, and the SEC East was bad. Sorry about that, ha. Here's hoping at least UGA is better next year though I'm not sure who else in the east will be. Florida will be a contender, and Tennessee will be decent. Not sold on Bruce Jones as an in-game coach. And USCe has a long way to go in talent. Even if all their coaching decisions were great, and I think they're suspect, they'd have to do a heck of a job of coaching them up.

perfectchaos007 said:
ESPN is reporting Nkemdiche just fell 1 story (10 feet). Whomever reported a 4 story fall was trying to create a tall tale or legend out of it
Click to expand...
Yeah it seemed inconsistent to hear that he fell 4 stories, but only 15 feet. Must have been a hotel built for ants.
 
C

chicko1983

Member
Draxal said:
Robert's recruitment was extremely fishy, I think one of the Clemson boys could explain this better than I can.
Click to expand...

Azwethinkweiz said:
It wasn't fishy. He was just committed to Clemson. And then his mom, who was a politician in Africa and hadn't been in the US or in their lives for years, comes back, tells everyone that he IS NOT committed to Clemson, and that he'll be going to Ole Miss with his brother. Now, thankfully politicians can't be bought and the SEC, especially Ole Miss, has a reputation for clean recruiting practices, so I'm sure the whole thing was on the up and up.
Click to expand...

So if his mum wasn't in their lives, why would Robert's decision be made on what she thought and any sort of payment to her?

I thought the story was more likely because she was a politician for a country which has some sort of strained relationship with the US, she would be denied a visa to visit.
 
A

andycapps

Member
chicko1983 said:
So if his mum wasn't in their lives, why would Robert's decision be made on what she thought and any sort of payment to her?

I thought the story was more likely because she was a politician for a country which has some sort of strained relationship with the US, she would be denied a visa to visit.
Click to expand...
Money can make the immigration or visa process much easier, from what I understand. I'm not saying that Nkemdiche's family got paid, I'm just saying.. This is a program that's historically shit tier in the SEC and overnight they start signing top 5 classes and competing with Bama in the division.

And the guy flips from Clempson at the last minute to Ole Miss of all places.

I remember when Laremy Tubsil flipped to Ole Miss at the last second over UGA that there were substantial rumors at the time that they gave his girlfriend an academic scholarship.
 
P

Purple Cheeto

Member
chicko1983 said:
So if his mum wasn't in their lives, why would Robert's decision be made on what she thought and any sort of payment to her?

I thought the story was more likely because she was a politician for a country which has some sort of strained relationship with the US, she would be denied a visa to visit.
Click to expand...

Because players can't sign without parental approval or something like that.
 
D

DominoKid

Member
chicko1983 said:
So if his mum wasn't in their lives, why would Robert's decision be made on what she thought and any sort of payment to her?

I thought the story was more likely because she was a politician for a country which has some sort of strained relationship with the US, she would be denied a visa to visit.
Click to expand...

because at the end of the day mama usually gets what she wants.
 
A

Azwethinkweiz

Member
andycapps said:
Money can make the immigration or visa process much easier, from what I understand. I'm not saying that Nkemdiche's family got paid, I'm just saying.. This is a program that's historically shit tier in the SEC and overnight they start signing top 5 classes and competing with Bama in the division.

And the guy flips from Clempson at the last minute to Ole Miss of all places.

I remember when Laremy Tubsil flipped to Ole Miss at the last second over UGA that there were substantial rumors at the time that they gave his girlfriend an academic scholarship.
Click to expand...

At the time, I was kinda upset about how the situation played out. But d-line, especially DT, is probably our strongest group, so we're not exactly missing him.
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Not to feel left out of an "Ole Miss, really?" conversation. Think Alabama was the leader on Tony Conner, a pretty damn good safety for them.
 
A

andycapps

Member
Lonestar said:
Not to feel left out of an "Ole Miss, really?" conversation. Think Alabama was the leader on Tony Conner, a pretty damn good safety for them.
Click to expand...

They went from the 47th ranked class in 2012 with one 5 star and two 4 stars to the 8th ranked class with four 5 stars and seven 4 stars. Seems like the money fell off in 2014 and 2015 though.

In 2013, they got the #1 ranked SDE in the country in Robert Nkemdiche, the #1 WR in Laquon Treadwell, #1 OT in Laremy Tunsil, the #5 safety in Tony Conner, #1 JUCO DT in Lavon Hooks, and #1 JUCO ATH in Nickolas Brassell.

But yeah, Ole Miss totally improved that much in one season in recruiting because Hugh Freeze is that good of a recruiter.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
When I said qbs I lied.

Greg Mcelroy came in to a Jets game late and threw a TD to beat the Cardinals.in 2012.

So a single game since 1987.
 
M

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
bucknuticus said:
And McCaron likely starting rest of season, im doomed to never see a Bengals playoff win.
Click to expand...
b3HGmqe.png
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
andycapps said:
They went from the 47th ranked class in 2012 with one 5 star and two 4 stars to the 8th ranked class with four 5 stars and seven 4 stars. Seems like the money fell off in 2014 and 2015 though.

In 2013, they got the #1 ranked SDE in the country in Robert Nkemdiche, the #1 WR in Laquon Treadwell, #1 OT in Laremy Tunsil, the #5 safety in Tony Conner, #1 JUCO DT in Lavon Hooks, and #1 JUCO ATH in Nickolas Brassell.

But yeah, Ole Miss totally improved that much in one season in recruiting because Hugh Freeze is that good of a recruiter.
Click to expand...

Just looking into Ole Miss recruiting from 2007 to this upcoming signing day (going by 247):
Code: 
Year   Rank     Points    SEC rank
2007	19	215.61     8th
2008	29	198.37     7th
2009	19	227.81     7th
2010	23	218.17     7th
2011	20	226.46     8th
2012	47	188.88     12th
2013	8	275.5      4th
2014	15	241.12     8th
2015	17	245.31     7th
2016	10	237.71     5th

2008 and 2009 were those 30+ signing years that lead to the hard cap of 25 or 28, whichever it is now. 2012 saw the introduction of A&M and Mizzou, and both recruited "better" that year.

Really looks like they're current success is solely built on that 2013 class, the one that's about to leave as Juniors, as they've slide back to pre-2013 class rankings of 10-20, which is usually good for 7th or 8th best SEC team.

bucknuticus said:
Oh no the Bengals season is over :(

No Alabama quarterback has won an NFL game since 1987 http://usat.ly/1P29G5Y
Click to expand...

I'm sure he'll beat the Niners. He actually didn't look too bad, way more zip on the ball than I remembered at Alabama. Just don't throw WR Screens as you're getting blasted by James Harrison, and don't try to gain back 20 yards on a throw, after a bad holding call. 22 for 32 for 280. That's 8.75 YPA, right up there at the top of the league, similar to Dalton's.

Basically, just throw it to AJ, AJ.

Besides, can't be any worse than a QB from OSUn. Best QB from them in the last 40 years was probably Tom Tupa.
 
A

andycapps

Member
Lonestar said:
Just looking into Ole Miss recruiting from 2007 to this upcoming signing day (going by 247):
Code: 
Year   Rank     Points    SEC rank
2007	19	215.61     8th
2008	29	198.37     7th
2009	19	227.81     7th
2010	23	218.17     7th
2011	20	226.46     8th
2012	47	188.88     12th
2013	8	275.5      4th
2014	15	241.12     8th
2015	17	245.31     7th
2016	10	237.71     5th

2008 and 2009 were those 30+ signing years that lead to the hard cap of 25 or 28, whichever it is now. 2012 saw the introduction of A&M and Mizzou, and both recruited "better" that year.

Really looks like they're current success is solely built on that 2013 class, the one that's about to leave as Juniors, as they've slide back to pre-2013 class rankings of 10-20, which is usually good for 7th or 8th best SEC team.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, that was the same conclusion I drew, though I didn't spell it out. That class has propped them up and it's going to be hard to expect to sustain that level of success. UGA plays in Oxford this year, and I don't think it's going to be nearly as hard as I thought it would be unless another 2013 recruiting iteration happens at the last minute.
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
andycapps said:
Totally agree, that was the same conclusion I drew, though I didn't spell it out. That class has propped them up and it's going to be hard to expect to sustain that level of success. UGA plays in Oxford this year, and I don't think it's going to be nearly as hard as I thought it would be unless another 2013 recruiting iteration happens at the last minute.
Click to expand...

What's nuts is, Tennessee is more often than not, in the top 10, but always stays losing (though begrudgingly, has gotten better)
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
FSU opens the season next year against Ole Miss.

Hopefully they suck.

Then 2017 we open the season against Alabama. I know they will suck without Saban.
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Yaboosh said:
FSU opens the season next year against Ole Miss.

Hopefully they suck.

Then 2017 we open the season against Alabama. I know they will suck without Saban.
Click to expand...

It'll take another year or so for the existing roster talent to thin out. Will still be a dangerous team by then.
 
A

andycapps

Member
Lonestar said:
What's nuts is, Tennessee is more often than not, in the top 10, but always stays losing (though begrudgingly, has gotten better)
Click to expand...

Tennessee had several games this last year blown by Butch Jones' bad in-game coaching decisions. I think Hugh Freeze is a better coach than Jones.. Tennessee had a pretty steep talent hole to climb out of and that bit them as well this year. Injuries bite everybody every year, the question is whether you have the talent in your depth chart to mitigate the drop off.

Ole Miss might have quite a dropoff next year with Robert Nkemdiche, Laremy Tunsil, Laquon Treadwell, and possibly Chad Kelly all gone.
 
A

andycapps

Member
Well it's a traditional tattoo, it's not going to look photorealistic.. Supposed to look like a cartoon. But yeah, the eyes are weird. Hard to get those right.
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
Draxal - I love how Ash is telling recruits to take a hike. He's going to reinvent Rutgers defense and offense. Bring it into the 21st century.

No longer will we be slaves to Bill Walsh.
 
P

Piggus

Member
Looks like we lost QB commit Seth Green, which makes me think there's a good chance Oregon will have another graduate transfer next year (Dakota Prukop). On the upside though, we lured QB Tristen Wallace from Ohio State and and got a commit from a WR named Eddie McDoom, whose name is badass.

EDIT: who the fuck makes a roast as a snack
 
C

chicko1983

Member
ESPN says Ole miss ranking for next years class is currently 5th, with 1 x 5 star, 11 x 4 stars already committed, plus 6 more 5 stars considering.

Looking at the above posters, most of the people with a gripe against them doing well in recruiting are from the teams that consistently do well recruiting - Georgia, Ohio St, Bama, Clemson etc.

As an outsider looking in, its like you guys don't like it when other schools try to compete with your traditional powerhouses.

I prefer the opposite, I'll root for the underdog, hence why I like Ole Miss.
 
A

andycapps

Member
Lonestar said:
4kL9die.jpg
Click to expand...

Perf

chicko1983 said:
ESPN says Ole miss ranking for next years class is currently 5th, with 1 x 5 star, 11 x 4 stars already committed, plus 6 more 5 stars considering.

Looking at the above posters, most of the people with a gripe against them doing well in recruiting are from the teams that consistently do well recruiting - Georgia, Ohio St, Bama, Clemson etc.

As an outsider looking in, its like you guys don't like it when other schools try to compete with your traditional powerhouses.

I prefer the opposite, I'll root for the underdog, hence why I like Ole Miss.
Click to expand...

New blood coming in and making things a little more difficult isn't really a problem. There's a perception that when a kid (Tunsil) was committed for 2 years, had many, many visits to UGA and been firmly committed that whole time takes an official visit just before signing day to Ole Miss (his only visit there) and flips that something unethical happened to change his mind. That is very rare. Ole Miss did that with multiple players.
 
A

Azwethinkweiz

Member
5 star Dexter Lawrence commits to Clemson. With Christian Wilkins last year, and Lawrence this year, no one's going to be able to run up the middle against us for the next 2 years.
 
E

El_Chino

Member
Azwethinkweiz said:
5 star Dexter Lawrence commits to Clemson. With Christian Wilkins last year, and Lawrence this year, no one's going to be able to run up the middle against us for the next 2 years.
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Florida was trying to get him but his mom wanted him close to home.

Anyways Butch Jones actually got a raise after all the expectations this past season? Wow.
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
chicko1983 said:
ESPN says Ole miss ranking for next years class is currently 5th, with 1 x 5 star, 11 x 4 stars already committed, plus 6 more 5 stars considering.

Looking at the above posters, most of the people with a gripe against them doing well in recruiting are from the teams that consistently do well recruiting - Georgia, Ohio St, Bama, Clemson etc.

As an outsider looking in, its like you guys don't like it when other schools try to compete with your traditional powerhouses.

I prefer the opposite, I'll root for the underdog, hence why I like Ole Miss.
Click to expand...

It's a team that maybe gets 1 5 star player every couple years, because someone in Mississippi turns out good. All of a sudden, in the same year, gets 3 of the top 15 players, 2 in the top 5. All 3 from out of state (Florida, Georgia, Illinois), that going into the final weeks didn't have Ole Miss on their radar. There was smoke then, and it pissed some people off.
 
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