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[Crossing Eden]

MGS is full of oddly comical or out of place elements. The problem with how Quiet is handled is that the bizarre, overdone cheesecake isn't fun, likeable or entertaining enough to justify its dissonance with the rest of the narrative. So it comes off as creepy instead.

And honestly, it probably still would have went over fine if the game wasn't constantly ramming the players face in Quiet's boobs like a 40 hour motorboat. It's like, OK, we get the point. Even the DoA franchise is more subtle.

Not to mention that MGSV takes itself more seriously than any other metal gear game. So the difference is incredibly jarring even for metal gear standards.

I'm not disputing that some of the Quiet scenes are daft, I said as much already. I think Kojima was aiming for romantic, sultry and mysterious with Quiet, but unfortunately fell well short of that in her execution - at least from a Western pov. Perhaps it's a cultural thing and from his perspective he absolutely nailed it, but then there comes an odd juxtaposition considering that this forum loves Japanese games so much: if we're pushing creators to dilute aspects of their culture to prevent offending anyone, we will end up with "games by committee" where every component of a game is a result of focus group testing and the end product is a bland, homogenous success. The very aspects that make Japanese games so great disappears. .

Characters like Quiet aren't par for the course or a cultural Japanese thing, sexism isn't only prevalent in Japan nor should we use culture as an excuse to justify it. Just like we wouldn't justify racism as part of our culture as an excuse to feature racist media. Kojima isn't a naive young man who didn't know what he was doing at all or what western audiences want, otherwise he'd do things like put in a HUD as ridiculous as XCX's.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I didn't say she's two-dimensional.

I wasn't saying you did, that was my critique. I didn't make that very clear.

I said she has development and an arc. Just because she's partially a power fantasy doesn't mean she can't have some depth to her. Is it the most depthful? No. I haven't been arguing that at all. But that combined with her being sex-positive in an industry that almost entirely lacks sex-positive women? It's refreshing to say the least.

That's great but none of that makes her well-written though.

As I said, she's two dimensional. In the same way a Marvel character is, she is a power fantasy with an additional human "vulnerability" on the side. That's not to dismiss her positive qualities, I just think it's a very low bar if she is held up as well-written.

My point in mentioning that women are varied as human beings is that we can have multiple women who cover multiple gamets of the human experience. Being sexually-positive isn't a negative thing. It's far better than the alternative. There are vast amounts of examples for a reason is my point. There are many more I could have listed that I frankly didn't either.

I'm not disputing any of that.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

That's great but none of that makes her well-written though.

As I said, she's two dimensional. In the same way a Marvel character is, she is a power fantasy with an additional human "vulnerability" on the side. That's not to dismiss her positive qualities, I just think it's a very low bar if she is held up as well-written.

This is another reason why I think "good writing" is such a nebulous term that people can't settle on a definition of.

You yourself said that there's a place for two dimensional (which in itself is a subjective criteria) power fantasies. So wouldn't that in some way be "good writing" if it's what the creator set out to do? Maybe not "deep writing", but contextually sound.

Meanwhile, a character with a lot of depth, but is ultimately inconsistent is going to be considered less well-written to me than a trashy character that was made to be trashy.

And personally speaking, I find Bayonetta a lot less boring than Max Caufield and also less aggravating than the shitheel that is Chloe Price.

 

[igordennis]

Wait what

 

[lifa-cobex]

Just because another, more popular form of media can influence people in a bigger way doesn't mean that smaller forms of media should be excused from critique and criticism.

And you really should educate yourself on how media (all forms of it) can affect and influence people, and why representation of all forms is important, even if it's hard to measure exactly. It's actually really interesting stuff, IMO.

I should educate myself!
Can't you do it?
Wait was it you I was having the original chat with?

I said his first port of call should be. I didn't say gaming was exempt.
And I never said it should be excused from critique or criticism. I said I felt it was people making something out of nothing.

 

[PtM]

Yes...you would need more straight women creating games in order to create the right kind of sexy for them.

Oh come on, this isn't at all about the female perspective, it's just a director's fuck-up. It's not asking too much of a man to come up with something better than Quiet.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'm not disputing that some of the Quiet scenes are daft, I said as much already. I think Kojima was aiming for romantic, sultry and mysterious with Quiet, but unfortunately fell well short of that in her execution - at least from a Western pov.

You can't seriously think that's what he was aiming for. Come on.

Perhaps it's a cultural thing and from his perspective he absolutely nailed it, but then there comes an odd juxtaposition considering that this forum loves Japanese games so much: if we're pushing creators to dilute aspects of their culture to prevent offending anyone, we will end up with "games by committee" where every component of a game is a result of focus group testing and the end product is a bland, homogenous success. The very aspects that make Japanese games so great disappears.

Ah yes. If we don't have characters like Quiet, we get bland homogenized games as a result.

Wait what?

Ultimately, I say let the game creators get on with creating games according to their vision - we should feel free to criticise their output, but not to censor it because it offends our sensibilities.

And now the ill-conceived complaints about censorship. Why am I not surprised.

Mostly agreed, I suppose.

You heard me. Ellie lacks agency. It's one of the biggest issues with LoU and it's writing. She's regulated to replacing the

Spoiler

fridged

character for Joel and that's it. Though the writing in that game does a disservice to literally everyone in it, not just Ellie.

Spoiler

Joel's entire character is "replace my lost loved one" and every side characters role barrels down to Joel talking to them about said lost loved one. The game does nothing but build up to the ending where Joel robs Ellie of her agency. He robs her of the very little character she ever had. Though he's not the only one guilty of this, her agency is robbed from her at every corner. On top of that it's distressing that the game relies so much on fridging women in particular.

I would never come close to including her in a list of well-written women.

Uh... I don't even know where to begin here. Ellie does have agency and so do every other female character in TLoU. Have you played Left Behind, btw?

 

[Messofanego]

But that combined with her being sex-positive in an industry that almost entirely lacks sex-positive women? It's refreshing to say the least. It's a huge step-forward for gaming honestly.

My point in mentioning that women are varied as human beings is that we can have multiple women who cover multiple gamets of the human experience. Being sexually-positive isn't a negative thing. It's far better than the alternative. There are vast amounts of examples for a reason is my point. There are many more I could have listed that I frankly didn't either.

Eva in MGS 3 is sex positive. Quiet is not sex positive. She doesn't express any of her sexuality. We know nothing about it.

There are quite a few sex positive female videogame characters, from popular titles. Max Payne, Wolfenstein The New Order, Witcher 2+3, Bioware games, Saints Row, and some others I'm forgetting. But I don't see enough evidence to posit Quiet as sex positive.

 

[Reebot]

Mostly agreed, I suppose.



You heard me. Ellie lacks agency. It's one of the biggest issues with LoU and it's writing.

She doesn't lack agency. She

Spoiler

has her will thwarted.

Completely different concepts.

Succeeding in one's endeavors is not a requirement for a strong character.

 

[Screaming Meat]

You yourself said that there's a place for two dimensional (which in itself is a subjective criteria) power fantasies.

So wouldn't that in some way be "good writing" if it's what the creator set out to do? Maybe not "deep writing", but contextually sound.

I'm pretty sure that's what a two dimensional character is though: lacking depth, has a few traits that act as a substitute for a personality.

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. What you're describing to me is what I would call "functional". "Well written" as a catch-all term would necessarily be compared to a range of characters. As has been shown, there are a shit load of better quality characters out there, so no, I wouldn't ever consider Bayonetta to be "well written". I find it baffling that she is, actually.

 

[SomTervo]

Ellie lacks agency

... But she's a child! Who is precious to humanity - she's objectified because of her condition. She is protected and sheltered because the context demands it. They need to keep her safe. It would be exactly the same if she were a boy (provided Sarah were swapped for a boy too.)

This line of reasoning doesn't work at all. Lacking agency is fine if the narrative qualifies it. Lacking agency is not fine if the character's situation demands agency. (Which Ellie's doesn't until Winter - when she's just focused on saving someone she cares about.)

What do you think of Marlene and Tess? Plenty of agency for both of them. It's clear Naughty Dog know how to write female characters.

 

[SomTervo]

You'd be right if I was trying to conflate the two, but I wasn't, I was simply comparing them to highlight an inconsistency in how they are viewed. The fact that violence isn't reacted to in the same manner as sex in games is down to cultural acceptance, not because it's any better developed or refined than the medium's treatment of women. Killing in most games is utterly without consequences, which is entirely unrepresentative of reality.

My point being that (i) games are still an immature medium, and not every game needs to aim to be Citizen Kane to be enjoyed for what it is and (ii) the creation of gaming's version of Citizen Kane does not mean game creators need to stop making games with gratuitous sex or violence.

Ultimately, I say let the game creators get on with creating games according to their vision - we should feel free to criticise their output, but not to censor it because it offends our sensibilities.

Sorry pal, I wasn't responding to you, just to Eden in isolation. I agree with you. Cencorship isnt the answer - although it's important we criticise the problematic aspects of games (eg how Quiet is handled).

She's not one of them though. She's originally XOF, whose camouflage unit dresses similarly to and has the same abilities as her.

While this might add to your point that every female in the game is sexualized, the camo units are just randoms. Just like the female soldiers on Mother Base who are all dressed appropriately.

Mate, I don't see a single other XOF soldier wearing next to nothing like Quiet. So that is untrue. XOF soldiers are all fully armoured/clothed and are also professional soldiers - so the comparison absolutely still stands. Unkess you're talking about the Skulls, who are IIRC partially nude? If so, that only reinforces the point - all the clothed Skulls and XOF soldiers are women.

Not sure what you're referring to re 'camo units'?

We're only talking about plot-important characters here. And literally all of them are fully clothed and unobjectified except Quiet who is the only woman.

 

[Windom Earle]

lmao

 

[Sun Bather]

I was embarrassed by my deeds, in the end it just made so much sense. Thank you for teaching me about photosynthesis, mr.kojima.

 

[igordennis]

lmao

Uhh did i miss the joke? What is funny about the picture?

If its a jab at eden then he only he has that much posts here because there is so much bullshit in this thread.

 

[silvermember]

lmao

Do you mind sharing the joke, with the class. What was the punchline?

EDIT: After looking through some of you post history, it rarely seems like you know what the hell you are talking about. You seem to contradict yourself especially with social issues.

 

[Windom Earle]

Uhh did i miss the joke? What is funny about the picture?

If its a jab at eden then he only he has that much posts here because there is so much bullshit in this thread.

Yes, I am simply orchestrating the hard work that the voice of reason (CE) has to put into this thread. Thank god he's here!

 

[BadAss2961]

Mate, I don't see a single other XOF soldier wearing next to nothing like Quiet. So that is untrue. XOF soldiers are all fully armoured/clothed and are also professional soldiers - so the comparison absolutely still stands. Unkess you're talking about the Skulls, who are IIRC partially nude? If so, that only reinforces the point - all the clothed Skulls and XOF soldiers are women.

Not sure what you're referring to re 'camo units'?

We're only talking about plot-important characters here. And literally all of them are fully clothed and unobjectified except Quiet who is the only woman.

The Skulls are XOF. The Skulls have a few different units. The Camo unit is the all-female one with Quiet's abilities.

I was just making a point that Quiet isn't dressed like a Diamond Dogs soldier because she isn't one. That's why she's kept in the brig.

 

[Windom Earle]

EDIT: After looking through some of you post history, it rarely seems like you know what the hell you are talking about. You seem to contradict yourself especially with social issues.

I'd be happy and honored to receive a detailed analysis on my misguided ways via pm! You must be a true mind reader because I rarely ever post in those "social" threads.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Uhh did i miss the joke? What is funny about the picture?

If its a jab at eden then he only he has that much posts here because there is so much bullshit in this thread.

Do you mind sharing the joke, with the class. What was the punchline?

EDIT: After looking through some of you post history, it rarely seems like you know what the hell you are talking about. You seem to contradict yourself especially with social issues.

Guys, this is quite literally the exact same thing that he did last time we had a similar thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178014380&postcount=1173
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178017692&postcount=1217

Some seem to have a fixation with myself. It's such a pathetic attempt at "shaming" as well as a general thread derail.

lmao

Yes, I am simply orchestrating the hard work that the voice of reason (CE) has to put into this thread. Thank god he's here!

I'd be happy and honored to receive a detailed analysis on my misguided ways via pm! You must be a true mind reader because I rarely ever post in those "social" threads.

It really wasn't that hard to pull up look up your post history and see that you did the exact same thing last time. What makes me so compelling to you exactly to make you feel the need to do this, multiple times?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Yes, I am simply orchestrating the hard work that the voice of reason (CE) has to put into this thread. Thank god he's here!

1) I don't think you are using the word "orchestrating" correctly, because you aren't making any sense
2) You sound sarcastic and petty.

 

[Crossing Eden]

1) I don't think you are using the word "orchestrating" correctly, because you aren't making any sense
2) You sound sarcastic and petty.

I assume the "desired effect" in his orchestration was for every to turn and laugh at myself instead of getting confused /annoyed by a blatant thread derail attempt, because obviously there's something wrong with the person who's been participating in the discussion. I mean it's not like participation in discussion is the point of a forum or anything.

The Skulls are XOF. The Skulls have a few different units. The Camo unit is the all-female one with Quiet's abilities.

I was just making a point that Quiet isn't dressed like a Diamond Dogs soldier because she isn't one. That's why she's kept in the brig.

It's still quite strange that even after becoming a DD soldier she chooses not to wear any sort of outfit resembling theirs. Every decision she makes is seemingly so that she can be gawked at. Which is very unfortunate. And it's even more egregious that only male skulls are allowed to be covered.

 

[marzlapin]

Sorry pal, I wasn't responding to you, just to Eden in isolation. I agree with you. Cencorship isnt the answer - although it's important we criticise the problematic aspects of games (eg how Quiet is handled).



Mate, I don't see a single other XOF soldier wearing next to nothing like Quiet. So that is untrue. XOF soldiers are all fully armoured/clothed and are also professional soldiers - so the comparison absolutely still stands. Unkess you're talking about the Skulls, who are IIRC partially nude? If so, that only reinforces the point - all the clothed Skulls and XOF soldiers are women.

Not sure what you're referring to re 'camo units'?

We're only talking about plot-important characters here. And literally all of them are fully clothed and unobjectified except Quiet who is the only woman.

Actually the Skulls are an interesting example because costume-wise, the male units have their asses hanging out just like the female unit and Quiet, but the camera still leers at the female Skulls while treating the males normally.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Actually the Skulls are an interesting example because costume-wise, the male units have their asses hanging out just like the female unit and Quiet, but the camera still leers at the female Skulls while treating the males normally.

They do??

 

[Jigorath]

Kojima is terrible with fanservice. In Policenauts you could go around and grope nearly every woman in the game without consequence. And that was supposed to be a hard sci fi story.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Actually the Skulls are an interesting example because costume-wise, the male units have their asses hanging out just like the female unit and Quiet, but the camera still leers at the female Skulls while treating the males normally.

Can confirm the males wear hardly anything.

The leering at the female Skulls is practically parody.

 

[BadAss2961]

It's still quite strange that even after becoming a DD soldier she chooses not to wear any sort of outfit resembling theirs. Every decision she makes is seemingly so that she can be gawked at. Which is very unfortunate. And it's even more egregious that only male skulls are allowed to be covered.

She never became a DD soldier though. It was never even suggested that she wanted to be. She just liked Snake and had respect for him. Snake and Ocelot brought her along because she could be useful.

 

[Crossing Eden]

She never became a DD soldier though. It was never even suggested that she wanted to be. She just liked Snake and had respect for him. Snake and Ocelot brought her along because she could be useful.

After a certain point she's allowed to leave the cage whenever she wants. She's most definitely a DD soldier. She's most definitely not aligned with XOF at all.

 

[BadAss2961]

After a certain point she's allowed to leave the cage whenever she wants. She's most definitely a DD soldier. She's most definitely not aligned with XOF at all.

She's never DD. She's the only person there that's never part of your staff. Always in the brig.

 

[Roran Stehl]

Just because another, more popular form of media can influence people in a bigger way doesn't mean that smaller forms of media should be excused from critique and criticism.

And you really should educate yourself on how media (all forms of it) can affect and influence people, and why representation of all forms is important, even if it's hard to measure exactly. It's actually really interesting stuff, IMO.

Well most meta-analyses are quite inconclusive, which makes the non dogmatic self education challenging in the field. You have to believe in the paradigm to accept evidence about it, the science isn't that great on it. It's quite logical as the evaluator isn't external to the subject itself, so introduces an inherent bias based on his own preconception. I had great exchanges with some neat DiGRA academics on those subjects, it's quite complex, and "go educate yourself" not so much of an answer, rather a deflection.
Edit: it could come stronger than intented. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I'm not fan of the "go educate yourself" paradigm.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Well most meta-analyses are quite inconclusive, which makes the non dogmatic self education challenging in the field. You have to believe in the paradigm to accept evidence about it, the science isn't that great on it. It's quite logical as the evaluator isn't external to the subject itself, so introduces an inherent bias based on his own preconception. I had great exchanges with some neat DiGRA academics on those subjects, it's quite complex, and "go educate yourself" not so much of an answer, rather a deflection.
Edit: it could come stronger than intented. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I'm not fan of the "go educate yourself" paradigm.

It's good for a chuckle
"Go find an answer that convinces you as I can't provide one that will."

 

[Crossing Eden]

She's never DD. She's the only person there that's never part of your staff. Always in the brig.

That's true that she's never part of the official staff.

 

[Sai-kun]

Well most meta-analyses are quite inconclusive, which makes the non dogmatic self education challenging in the field. You have to believe in the paradigm to accept evidence about it, the science isn't that great on it. It's quite logical as the evaluator isn't external to the subject itself, so introduces an inherent bias based on his own preconception. I had great exchanges with some neat DiGRA academics on those subjects, it's quite complex, and "go educate yourself" not so much of an answer, rather a deflection.
Edit: it could come stronger than intented. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I'm not fan of the "go educate yourself" paradigm.

Personally, I'm just tired of spelling out why representation and equality in games matters, since I've done it a lot across tons of threads here. So yeah, maybe I'm a little lazy, but I'm not wrong either Perhaps next time some appropriate links to accompany my "educate yourself" would be a better response

It's good for a chuckle
"Go find an answer that convinces you as I can't provide one that will."

...but of course some folks are less interested in learning.

 

[poodaddy]

Guys, this is quite literally the exact same thing that he did last time we had a similar thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178014380&postcount=1173
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178017692&postcount=1217

Some seem to have a fixation with myself. It's such a pathetic attempt at "shaming" as well as a general thread derail.






It really wasn't that hard to pull up look up your post history and see that you did the exact same thing last time. What makes me so compelling to you exactly to make you feel the need to do this, multiple times?

Wow.... I go to the grocery store, take a nap, and play with my kid for a while then come back to the thread to see this. Good to see he was banned for this nonsense. Incidentally, I always enjoy your presence in these threads as you seem a like mind. I'd be proud to be at the top of that list, as this is a conversation that needs to happen. Sad that some people bring the conversation to this realm.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Uhh did i miss the joke? What is funny about the picture?

If its a jab at eden then he only he has that much posts here because there is so much bullshit in this thread.

I'm offended I'm not on here.

not really

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

It's still quite strange that even after becoming a DD soldier she chooses not to wear any sort of outfit resembling theirs. Every decision she makes is seemingly so that she can be gawked at. Which is very unfortunate. And it's even more egregious that only male skulls are allowed to be covered.

It's best just to separate art design from the story as much as possible, I find.

I thought Quiet and Venom had some of the best empathic chemistry I've seen in a game. Certainly at least the series. I felt more compassion between the two than, say, Solid and Meryrl.

But you gotta sort of... have some suspension of disbelief, of sorts, for the art. I dislike it, too, but I just sort of approach it as, whatever, OK, it's how she looks. What about beyond that. And beyond that, Venom and Quiet actually have some of the best scenes in the series IMO. Not quite MGS3 goat levels but for me a lot better than most of the other games. But that really hinges on sort of just getting past what her outfit is.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's best just to separate art design from the story as much as possible, I find.

I thought Quiet and Venom had some of the best empathic chemistry I've seen in a game. Certainly at least the series. I felt more compassion between the two than, say, Solid and Meryrl.

But you gotta sort of... have some suspension of disbelief, of sorts, for the art. I dislike it, too, but I just sort of approach it as, whatever, OK, it's how she looks. What about beyond that. And beyond that, Venom and Quiet actually have some of the best scenes in the series IMO. Not quite MGS3 goat levels but for me a lot better than most of the other games. But that really hinges on sort of just getting past what her outfit is.

Beyond that very little of their interaction makes sense. VS chooses not to kill her, this causes her to become infatuated with him, despite the whole burning her alive at the beginning of the game part. And this infatuation gets to the point where she behaves like an animal in heat around him. It's very forced. Compare that to Yennefer and Geralt from the Witcher 3. Which feels incredibly natural in execution.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I liked her tbh. She was the best companion hands down, had a great character model, the humming was cool, and her plotline was interesting. Biggest wtf moment in the game for me was when she attacked the guy on mother base. Also <3 the joost.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

I don't know, I never saw it that way. I mean, most of that is outside the story. I never even saw the shower scene. If you exclude the rain and shower scene (and whatever she does in the chopper/at MB), there's a lot less that's sexual about their relationship. A lot of that it outside the core story... I mean, in the same way that Snake can run around in a box and tranq guards, and I don't really let that comedy affect, say, Mission 43. In the same way, whatever dumb sexual sort of 'side' or optional stuff Quiet does, I don't really let detract from her more core scenes. Referring to Cloaked in Silence, the pre-virus knife attack, post-chapter 1 interrogation, the chemical fire scene, and then a Quiet exit. I felt more empathy and camaraderie between the two than anything.

 

[Messofanego]

I liked her tbh. She was the best companion hands down, had a great character model, the humming was cool, and her plotline was interesting. Biggest wtf moment in the game for me was when she attacked the guy on mother base. Also <3 the joost.

Nah, man! It's the same hum repeated hundred times over every time she's on a mission. How can you stand that shit!

 

[injurai]

I liked her tbh. She was the best companion hands down, had a great character model, the humming was cool, and her plotline was interesting. Biggest wtf moment in the game for me was when she attacked the guy on mother base. Also <3 the joost.

The humming was cool?

 

[Basketball]

I liked her tbh. She was the best companion hands down, had a great character model, the humming was cool, and her plotline was interesting. Biggest wtf moment in the game for me was when she attacked the guy on mother base. Also <3 the joost.

Oh Hell no
the humming was terrible and I liked her as a buddy too
She should have sticked to her name and

 

[RageWaffles]

Nah, man! It's the same hum repeated hundred times over every time she's on a mission. How can you stand that shit!

I liked the hum. It was a nice little alarm that let me know when someone was awake. Just knock the guy back out, and she goes quiet again.


More on topic, I like Quiet as a character, but really hate the execution. Her outfit, the pervy camera.... Both my boyfriend and I literally cringed at times.

Meh, I've seen worse. I mean come on, you can't exactly set your expectations high when you first see her.

You first see her as some sleek assassin who has just killed two people and is just about to kill you. How does that make for low expectations? That made me so excited about her!

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Meh, I've seen worse. I mean come on, you can't exactly set your expectations high when you first see her.

Other M is far worse.

 

[toastyToast]

After playing Transistor, Quiet couldn't possibly meet my elevated humming standards.

 

[DC1]

Mostly agreed, I suppose.



You heard me. Ellie lacks agency. It's one of the biggest issues with LoU and it's writing. She's regulated to replacing the

Spoiler

fridged

character for Joel and that's it. Though the writing in that game does a disservice to literally everyone in it, not just Ellie.

Spoiler

Joel's entire character is "replace my lost loved one" and every side characters role barrels down to Joel talking to them about said lost loved one. The game does nothing but build up to the ending where Joel robs Ellie of her agency. He robs her of the very little character she ever had. Though he's not the only one guilty of this, her agency is robbed from her at every corner. On top of that it's distressing that the game relies so much on fridging women in particular.

I would never come close to including her in a list of well-written women.

With respect to Ellie: What game does the written character more justice?

You may need to crawl in a cave for a deep slumberfastic period of reflection.

Nothing personal at all,..but I have been subjects to regretful opinions after a few influential spirits.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

You first see her as some sleek assassin who has just killed two people and is just about to kill you. How does that make for low expectations? That made me so excited about her!

Sure, but it's no surprise that she turns into a sex object later in the game. Her character design in the trailers and marketing didn't make me have high hopes.

 

[ZangBa]

I like Quiet, she's really OP. I see all those dumb scenes more as comedy than anything. Plus, we wouldn't get that Ocelot model swap without them. C:

 

[Crossing Eden]

After playing Transistor, Quiet couldn't possibly meet my elevated humming standards.

Transistor is something I'd say is one of the best recent examples of how to do a relationship in a game. So good.

 

[Dr.Acula]

So I haven't play this game yet, but she looks ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/VQvyv8iHGkQ

Did anyone post this video of Quiet showering in a cage as men moan and make sexual comments about her? That is probably the most objectifying thing I've seen in a game.

And the key word in the thread title is "embarrassing." Stuff like this would turn me off of playing this game in front of anyone.