I had no idea this was a thing, jfc.
So I haven't play this game yet, but she looks ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/VQvyv8iHGkQ
Did anyone post this video of Quiet showering in a cage as men moan and make sexual comments about her? That is probably the most objectifying thing I've seen in a game.
And the key word in the thread title is "embarrassing." Stuff like this would turn me off of playing this game in front of anyone.
So I haven't play this game yet, but she looks ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/VQvyv8iHGkQ
Did anyone post this video of Quiet showering in a cage as men moan and make sexual comments about her? That is probably the most objectifying thing I've seen in a game.
And the key word in the thread title is "embarrassing." Stuff like this would turn me off of playing this game in front of anyone.
Did anyone post this video of Quiet showering in a cage as men moan and make sexual comments about her?
lmao
Uh... I don't even know where to begin here. Ellie does have agency and so do every other female character in TLoU. Have you played Left Behind, btw?
Eva in MGS 3 is sex positive. Quiet is not sex positive. She doesn't express any of her sexuality. We know nothing about it.
There are quite a few sex positive female videogame characters, from popular titles. Max Payne, Wolfenstein The New Order, Witcher 2+3, Bioware games, Saints Row, and some others I'm forgetting. But I don't see enough evidence to posit Quiet as sex positive.
She doesn't lack agency. Shehas her will thwarted.
Completely different concepts.
Succeeding in one's endeavors is not a requirement for a strong character.
... But she's a child! Who is precious to humanity - she's objectified because of her condition. She is protected and sheltered because the context demands it. They need to keep her safe. It would be exactly the same if she were a boy (provided Sarah were swapped for a boy too.)
This line of reasoning doesn't work at all. Lacking agency is fine if the narrative qualifies it. Lacking agency is not fine if the character's situation demands agency. (Which Ellie's doesn't until Winter - when she's just focused on saving someone she cares about.)
What do you think of Marlene and Tess? Plenty of agency for both of them. It's clear Naughty Dog know how to write female characters.
With respect to Ellie: What game does the written character more justice?
You may need to crawl in a cave for a deep slumberfastic period of reflection.
Nothing personal at all,..but I have been subjects to regretful opinions after a few influential spirits.
I wasn't saying you did, that was my critique. I didn't make that very clear.
That's great but none of that makes her well-written though.
As I said, she's two dimensional. In the same way a Marvel character is, she is a power fantasy with an additional human "vulnerability" on the side. That's not to dismiss her positive qualities, I just think it's a very low bar if she is held up as well-written.
I'm not disputing any of that.
Uh... as someone pointed out, having one's will thwarted != having no agency.Heavily disagreed there. I mean, Ellie's agency isliterally robbed from her at every corner. The one time she does anything at all is Winter. Afterwards the ending continues to rob her of her agency.
That's just crazy talk now.I wasn't too impressed with Marlene or Tess really. They're better than Ellie, that's for damn sure. How much that's saying, I can't say. Overall I just find the writing not that great for that game and I wouldn't hold any of the women in it as examples of great writing.
Uh... your only example (other than Pathologic) of a better written game than TLoU is one you haven't even played and only go by word of mouth?If you want games that are well-written look to Pathologic. That game does writing on a masterclass level. Seriously, just about nothing comes close to even comparing with that game. Or say, Planescape:Torment, which I always see people tout. Haven't played it myself yet but I do own it.
Eva in MGS 3 is sex positive. Quiet is not sex positive. She doesn't express any of her sexuality. We know nothing about it.
There are quite a few sex positive female videogame characters, from popular titles. Max Payne, Wolfenstein The New Order, Witcher 2+3, Bioware games, Saints Row, and some others I'm forgetting. But I don't see enough evidence to posit Quiet as sex positive.
So I haven't play this game yet, but she looks ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/VQvyv8iHGkQ
Did anyone post this video of Quiet showering in a cage as men moan and make sexual comments about her? That is probably the most objectifying thing I've seen in a game.
And the key word in the thread title is "embarrassing." Stuff like this would turn me off of playing this game in front of anyone.
Uh... as someone pointed out, having one's will thwarted != having no agency.
That's just crazy talk now.
Uh... your only example (other than Pathologic) of a better written game than TLoU is one you haven't even played and only go by word of mouth?
Sorry but that's just laughable.
Complaining about the existance of a thread is not the smartest thing to do, I think.It's embarrassing that there is a 23 page thread about this. Quit moaning people and go and CV play some games.
Let's make like Quiet's ample bust and BURST OUT of the confines of this discussion, greeting the world with nipples facing straight ahead, firm of purpose, unrestrained in their wanton passion for freedom.It's embarrassing that there is a 23 page thread about this. Quit moaning people and go and CV play some games.
If you think that MGS is a serious series you CLEARLY haven't played them.
I feel like Quiet is no different than what they do in movies now a days.
Yes, nothing says sexual agency and empowerment like being leered at by male characters, being almost raped by male characters, and being designed solely for the purpose of titillating male players.In the future mainstream games will most likely have even more sex positive/sexually emancipated women characters like Quiet.
I wish. This is nothing like that at all. Quiet doesn't even get to have sex, now does she?Perhaps even straight up graphic depictions of romance and sex itself.
Really now...I didn't find Quiet to be overtly objectified, and she definitely had more agency than most women ever have in real life.
Ohh, damn. I got caught by Poe's Law again. Welp.As a person that studies Sociology and Gender Studies at a post graduate level for going on 13 years now, I have no issues with her, and I'm sure some would even call her a Feminist and strong woman character.
As we move into a less puritanical and more sex-positive society, I hope more people will come to not emotionally react with feelings of shame or embarrassment when they encounter a sexualized female body in a video game.
Personally, I've found that most of the people that find these types of things to be terribly offensive also have compounded radical/extremist views of human sexuality themselves and are mostly looking for an easy target to demonize.
There are much better Feminist causes to support and focus on than a silly fan service shower scene in a video game.
So I haven't play this game yet, but she looks ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/VQvyv8iHGkQ
Did anyone post this video of Quiet showering in a cage as men moan and make sexual comments about her? That is probably the most objectifying thing I've seen in a game.
And the key word in the thread title is "embarrassing." Stuff like this would turn me off of playing this game in front of anyone.
Yes, nothing says sexual agency and empowerment like being leered at by male characters, being almost raped by male characters, and being designed solely for the purpose of titillating male players.
If you're going to try to parody feminists, it would help if you had any understanding of feminism at all. This whole thing just sounds like a Breitbart commenter's extremely misguided understanding of what feminists criticize in games.In the future mainstream games will most likely have even more sex positive/sexually emancipated women characters like Quiet.
Perhaps even straight up graphic depictions of romance and sex itself.
I didn't find Quiet to be overtly objectified, and she definitely had more agency than most women ever have in real life.
As a person that studies Sociology and Gender Studies at a post graduate level for going on 13 years now, I have no issues with her, and I'm sure some would even call her a Feminist and strong woman character.
As we move into a less puritanical and more sex-positive society, I hope more people will come to not emotionally react with feelings of shame or embarrassment when they encounter a sexualized female body in a video game.
Personally, I've found that most of the people that find these types of things to be terribly offensive also have compounded radical/extremist views of human sexuality themselves and are mostly looking for an easy target to demonize.
There are much better Feminist causes to support and focus on than a silly fan service shower scene in a video game.
The part that weirds me out is when people pretend that "this kind of stuff is what is keeping gaming from being taken seriously" when like, come on, every single medium has far worse stuff in big name things. Scantily clad sexualized women aren't going to disappear from games just like they aren't going to disappear from movies or television, if you're waiting for that moment you're gonna be waiting a loooooong time.
Yeah, what sort of message are these so-called feminists giving all those sex-positive girls who want to grow up to be a badass assassin that gets no respect from the men around her despite saving their lives. What if it were your daughter that wanted to be leered and jeered at while she takes a shower. How dare you deny her that choice!
How dare they slut shame someone just because they breath through their skin. Damn those puritanical internet feminazis.
/s
Defending Quiet is like taking your girlfriend to a strip club to see all those emancipated sex positive role models taking charge of their own sexuality. If your girlfriend gets upset she is betraying feminism amirite?
Do you have any examples of such strip clubs that still exist and are not defunct? Just curious.
Do you have any examples of such strip clubs that still exist and are not defunct? Just curious.
I just thought it was an amusing example to go with given that it didn't seem to have been a success. Given your obsession with "academic feminism", I had assumed that you would have known more examples off the top of your head compared to a layman like me, but I guess not. I did not mean to offend you.I'm quite certain there are many seeing as the whole profession of erotic stripping was largely evolved by early adopters of the woman's severance movement, and seeing as we both have access to a computer terminal and can type, it'd probably be best if you did your own googling eh?
Complaining about the existance of a thread is not the smartest thing to do, I think.
And yes, Quiet was really that ridiculous and deserves every criticism.
And the key word in the thread title is "embarrassing." Stuff like this would turn me off of playing this game in front of anyone.
Dr.Acular said:Did anyone post this video of Quiet showering in a cage as men moan and make sexual comments about her? That is probably the most objectifying thing I've seen in a game.
Pssst it's not sexy attire on its own that is the problem... Some people completely miss the point.
Sex and sexulity are not in and of themselves a problem and they in themselves are not marginalising. It's the context.
The context here is a 20-page thread of people being outraged that there was fanservice in an MGS game and some weirdo asking me for specific strip club titles that are owned by Feminists because if I can't come up with them off the top of my head then clearly I'm not an academic.
This is the type of lowlife demographic that reactionary fear mongering appeals to. No one else can come up with this stuff or consume it.
Personally, I find it's on the level of this type of thing: PIV IS ALWAYS RAPE https://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/
It's Fox news level trash media at this point, where the people who're speaking use the words but don't know their meanings.
Appropriating concepts like objectification and agency and then applying them to characters intentionally designed to be lacking them just blows me away with the complete lack of critical analysis involved.
We might as well be talking about stoning a person that refused to consume the Eucharist at mass because they're a sinner!
I don't care about the baggage, all I know is that in my life of playing games, when considering mainstream high budget games, MGS5 is probably one of the most offensive games I've ever played (there's all kinds of worse stuff out there which is why I qualified "among big budget mainstream games"). I could be missing or forgetting something, but right now nothing else springs to mind. The game is gross.
While I'm seeing very little genuine outrage in this thread about Quiet's depiction in MGS5, I don't see why the two acts need to be mutually exclusive. You can tackle issues pertaining feminism while discussing why you may or may not like the depiction of a fictional character. And partaking in the discussion is always optional.You need to go outside and deal with real issues if video games offend you.
There are women out there that need real charity and real concern and have real issues that you can take offense to.
MGS and video games really really shouldn't be one of them.
You need to go outside and deal with real issues if video games offend you.
There are women out there that need real charity and real concern and have real issues that you can take offense to.
MGS and video games really really shouldn't be one of them.
I don't care about the baggage, all I know is that in my life of playing games, when considering mainstream high budget games, MGS5 is probably one of the most offensive games I've ever played (there's all kinds of worse stuff out there which is why I qualified "among big budget mainstream games"). I could be missing or forgetting something, but right now nothing else springs to mind. The game is gross.
Nothing else springs to mind eh?
I don't care about the baggage, all I know is that in my life of playing games, when considering mainstream high budget games, MGS5 is probably one of the most offensive games I've ever played (there's all kinds of worse stuff out there which is why I qualified "among big budget mainstream games"). I could be missing or forgetting something, but right now nothing else springs to mind. The game is gross.
Nothing else springs to mind eh?
Nothing at all?
Zip?
This is absolutely the grossest ever right?