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Gears of War 4 - hopes, fears and expectations
- Thread starter Mr.Fletcher
- Start date
PhilipDoesMatter
Member
Seriously 4.0
Get rid of it for 4. Don't replace it, either.
Just for the fallout, would be totally worth it.
- Stopping power needs to be toned down to allow for agressive team pushes. Movement should be encouraged. mid-long range rifle battles and defensive play is not what the Gears series is about.
- Wallboucing should stay or a similarly satisfying mechanic should replace it. Nothing is as satisfying as knowing you have a great chance to win a 1 v 2 due to the skillful movement options the game affords.
Edit: Making the gnasher even less viable as some are suggesting here would only shun the gears fans who have been supporting the series for years and are playing Gears:UE now. The game needs to be competitive at it's core for the long term population but attract more casual players through other modes such as Horde, and more variety of modes in multiplayer.
- Wallboucing should stay or a similarly satisfying mechanic should replace it. Nothing is as satisfying as knowing you have a great chance to win a 1 v 2 due to the skillful movement options the game affords.
Edit: Making the gnasher even less viable as some are suggesting here would only shun the gears fans who have been supporting the series for years and are playing Gears:UE now. The game needs to be competitive at it's core for the long term population but attract more casual players through other modes such as Horde, and more variety of modes in multiplayer.
JayWood2010
Member
Retro was OP is why. Gears 3 was a very balanced game outside the Retro so it was pretty infuriating when you died by the Retro. Gears is generally like that. You can get 15 kills and then die once and be mad because something like that, or your gnasher was being inconsistent or something.
Which really is my hope. Gears 3 is definitely the best in terms of balanced gameplay between all the gears games, but every Gears game has had inconsistency issues. Just make it more consistent. Other than that surprise me. By far my favorite games of all time.
internetwolf
Banned
This will be my most played game of 2016 no doubt.
JayWood2010
Member
Stopping power is fine in Gears 3(the only time its useful is if youre bum rushing an enemy straight on which is poor strategy). Gears 2 it was awful. Gears 1 Gnasher is OP and promoted 1 game style only. Do not make it like Gears 1 which while I loved it when it originally came out and is probably my most played game of all time, it was broken in so many ways its not even funny.
Honestly the Gears 1 vets which annoy me wanting the Gnasher to be an OP weapon because they cant figure out how to use anything else. No offense to you in particular.
I've never said Rifles shouldn't be viable and Gnahser should be OP? I dont believe Gnasher should be the only viable primary weapon. Rifles can be encouraged while reducing stopping power.
The lancer was good in Gears 3. Same cannot be said for the hammerburst with active buffs.
JayWood2010
Member
That's why Horde is so great. MP can be brutal, but PvE lets anybody get involved in MP.
JayWood2010
Member
There really isnt a lot of stopping power in Gears 3 though, that is what Im saying. Its just enough that you cant run in blindly because you have no other strategy. Use a smoke grenade, talk to your team mates, get a power weapon, etc Thats the way it should be. You shouldnt be able to run through bullets just because you prefer using a gnasher. Variety is a very important thing to have in games.
As for Hammerburst, i never died by it much, but I never used it much either. It was probably one of my least used weapons as I always liked the original Hammerburst more than Gears 2/3 hammerburst. So I cant say much about it in all honesty.
To be honest, I couldn't care less about the story/single player aspect. Gears is one of, if not my favorite multiplayer game. The game needs to be fast paced like Gears 3 and center screen aiming needs to go. I would also like a variety of weapons, but balancing is the issue. Also, I would like a map pack that includes maps across 3 games. Checkout and Blood drive are a must imo.
JayWood2010
Member
Yeah, horde was a huge hit and had a ton of games follow EPIC into making game modes similar to it after Gears 2. Its crazy to think of how Influential Gears has been over the course of last generation.
But yeah, id like to see them improve on horde. They should also bring over Overrun from Judgement. Nothing else needs to be brought over from Judgement
But Overrun is a good game mode and would be a hit with Horde fans.EDIT: Also I would like to see them do what 343i did. Have a new game mode similar to Warzone. Maybe even find a way to give out DLC maps for free similar to Halo 5
That hammerburst in 3 was pretty OP, I used it quite a bit lol.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Sorry but I have to disagree with the bit about Gears 3 being the most balanced. Gears 3's weapon balance was absolutely horrible among starting weapons outside of the Sawed-Off. All four of the other weapons were grossly overpowered, especially with actives. The Gnasher ripped people apart from crazy ranges, getting two shot downs at distances where it just shouldn't be possible. The Hammerburst was an absolute force in the hands of anyone with a decent trigger finger. The Lancer, while mostly fine without actives, became downright ridiculous with an active reload. Then of course the Retro which is well documented.
And like I said, Judgment's Retro was great. Even though it functioned much closer to the Lancer it still felt unique enough to use and most importantly it wasn't an absolute monster. I've never denied that the Gears 3 Retro was broken, my point is just that Judgment showed it can be a balanced weapon which in my opinion is enough to warrant its inclusion in Gears 4.
JayWood2010
Member
If they can balance it, I have no problem with them bringing it over to Gears 4. I cant speak much about Gears: J since I barely played it.
EDIT: And oh please make it 60fps in multiplayer. I could honestly care less about 1080p, just make it have 60fps which is an extremely noticeable difference compared to 30fps
Mr.Fletcher
Member
Balance is in the eye of the beholder.
Gears of War 3 had fast kill times and powerful weapons across the board. The Retro was a monster at all ranges while the Lancer and Hammerburst were no slouches either. The Gnasher dominated in close quarters (as it should) but it also did big damage at a distance.
You had ink grenade stuns, lethal incendiaries (due to hit box update issues) and mini nuke grenades.
It was balanced chaos - all weapons were highly viable beyond their intended purpose. You spawned as a walking tank in Gears of War 3 and could easily steamroll a team without power weapons.
And just to be clear, I'm not complaining. I have thousands of kills across all weapons in that game (my favourite of the three) but you could argue it wasn't balanced in an enjoyable way.
For the record, even with the rise of the rifles, my Gnasher was my most used weapon by a distance.
The problem is that Gears of War is a game about intimate violence, where up close skirmishes aren't usually one-shot kills but dances to the death. At its core the thrill of winning a shotgun duel is what keeps people coming back - which is why people are so rush-happy.
But rifle balance also comes down to perspective.
After playing a lot of UE, I really appreciate the balance of the Lancer in that game. It's a valuable suppressing tool, a good way to score easy kills as people pick up power weapons and lethal when used in conjunction with another player.
It's not, however, a high kill weapon on its own and none of the maps encourage its use over a power weapon or shotgun.
That's the issue. Maps need to facilitate long range play. Stopping power and boosting weapon damage will only get you so far - maps need to change.
Otherwise you have the Gears of War 3 situation where people take rifles into a Gnasher fight and come out on top.
I have no strong feelings either way to be honest but it's an interesting dilemma The Coalition (and Epic at the time) must have discussed.
Gears of War 3 had fast kill times and powerful weapons across the board. The Retro was a monster at all ranges while the Lancer and Hammerburst were no slouches either. The Gnasher dominated in close quarters (as it should) but it also did big damage at a distance.
You had ink grenade stuns, lethal incendiaries (due to hit box update issues) and mini nuke grenades.
It was balanced chaos - all weapons were highly viable beyond their intended purpose. You spawned as a walking tank in Gears of War 3 and could easily steamroll a team without power weapons.
And just to be clear, I'm not complaining. I have thousands of kills across all weapons in that game (my favourite of the three) but you could argue it wasn't balanced in an enjoyable way.
For the record, even with the rise of the rifles, my Gnasher was my most used weapon by a distance.
The problem is that Gears of War is a game about intimate violence, where up close skirmishes aren't usually one-shot kills but dances to the death. At its core the thrill of winning a shotgun duel is what keeps people coming back - which is why people are so rush-happy.
But rifle balance also comes down to perspective.
After playing a lot of UE, I really appreciate the balance of the Lancer in that game. It's a valuable suppressing tool, a good way to score easy kills as people pick up power weapons and lethal when used in conjunction with another player.
It's not, however, a high kill weapon on its own and none of the maps encourage its use over a power weapon or shotgun.
That's the issue. Maps need to facilitate long range play. Stopping power and boosting weapon damage will only get you so far - maps need to change.
Otherwise you have the Gears of War 3 situation where people take rifles into a Gnasher fight and come out on top.
I have no strong feelings either way to be honest but it's an interesting dilemma The Coalition (and Epic at the time) must have discussed.
Yeah, horde was a huge hit and had a ton of games follow EPIC into making game modes similar to it after Gears 2. Its crazy to think of how Influential Gears has been over the course of last generation.
But yeah, id like to see them improve on horde. They should also bring over Overrun from Judgement. Nothing else needs to be brought over from Judgement
EDIT: Also I would like to see them do what 343i did. Have a new game mode similar to Warzone. Maybe even find a way to give out DLC maps for free similar to Halo 5
I said it before, but I don't think there's room for Horde and a Warzone-esque mode. I say just make Horde bigger, rather than like Warzone. Sometimes I just want to kill an onslaught of AI drones with my CoG bros rather than have to deal with a greasy oik "between jobs" who happens to have mastered the Gnasher.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I hope they don't waste any dev time on stuff like Overrun or whatever. That's less resources dedicated to making good Gears maps that are the bread and butter of the MP.
PetulantChild
Banned
Have they said who the composer is going to be? I really would like it if they brought back Kevin Riepl, Jablonski is fine but nothing in the sequels beat that amazing main theme of Gears 1 in my opinion.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Ugh please no.
Gears doesnt have Map Editor. So that "free" content wont happen. Sure Map remakes from older games maybe will be free. But i think the full DLC Packs wont be free.
Mr.Fletcher
Member
This 100 per cent. The original's main theme is exceptional.
supernormal
Member
I like that what they were going for with the trailer for 4. Gimme that eerie and dark downtime where I don't really know what I'm up against yet but I can feel it coming. Then when you're ready to show it bring the spectacle in like you did on 2. These variations of downtime, combat, and set-pieces is what I like about the series.
White_sox
Member
Hope - it plays like the first game. The maps are small and it's all about close quarter combat. They also bring back a server browser and allow users to pick what they want to play. The story will return to a more focused human versus locust theme.
Fear - it's as bad as the trailer makes it out to be. The game tries to be too cinematic. The series once again shows that too much variety can be a bad thing. The MP features cheap deaths and unneeded, unbalanced weapons.
Expectations - pretty much my fears. I have almost no hope.
Fear - it's as bad as the trailer makes it out to be. The game tries to be too cinematic. The series once again shows that too much variety can be a bad thing. The MP features cheap deaths and unneeded, unbalanced weapons.
Expectations - pretty much my fears. I have almost no hope.
CalamityPixel
Member
I don't want Delta Squad back unless it's a cameo.
Brothers to the end, emphasis on the end.
I think I'm happy with new characters and a new threat that makes sense in the universe Gears is in.
Brothers to the end, emphasis on the end.
I think I'm happy with new characters and a new threat that makes sense in the universe Gears is in.
And that's why i want it. It plays so well at 60
Astral Dog
Member
How can they make another game, arent the Locust supossed to be dead.
Is this a serious post?
Mr.Fletcher
Member
I think the series is in a unique position. Its a sci-fi, man v monster, TPS which focuses on intimate action and a simple, but deep, cover system. No one else is doing anything similar.
It doesn't need to reinvent the wheel, it just needs to make its parts feel fresh.
I almost feel as though adding to the already excellent selection of weapons, coming up with some creative encounters and successfully introducing the community to a new collection of heroes should be top priorities.
Personally I love the tone of the tease. And the new enemy we saw looked great as well. Can't wait to see the alien designs.
The franchise has always had great art direction.
It doesn't need to reinvent the wheel, it just needs to make its parts feel fresh.
I almost feel as though adding to the already excellent selection of weapons, coming up with some creative encounters and successfully introducing the community to a new collection of heroes should be top priorities.
Personally I love the tone of the tease. And the new enemy we saw looked great as well. Can't wait to see the alien designs.
The franchise has always had great art direction.
il Diavolo
Banned
Agreed. The music in Gears 1 was understated but punctuated the action nicely and the main theme was simple yet memorable while also encapsulating the tone of the game. Jablonsky's work for 2 and 3 was mostly your standard Hollywood bombast. Serviceable but nothing really to connect with.
Gears of War continuously redefined and bookmarked an entire generation of software on release. Between visuals and design it existed as a perfect storm in pushing the bar across the board for what people expect on both Xbox 360 and PS3.
The popularisation of cover mechanics and jaw dropping implementation of UE3, combined with smart design decisions (active reload being one such example) struck a cord, and even additions such as Horde took hold throughout the industry and trickled into other important software releases.
This represents the big problem for The Coalition. They must simultaneously create something which similarly redefines expectations whilst building a studio from scratch.
I accept that it may seem massively unfair, but I honestly believe that simply releasing more Gears (albeit darker, with new weapons and enemies) on Xbox 1, with shiny new graphical effects will only see a downward trajectory for the franchise. In a way, Gears 3 was the ultimate Gears experience, refined to scientific precision. The addition of Judgement afterwards only diluted the appetite for more of the franchise without serious reinvention and evolution.
People don't know what they want until they have it. This was Gears' ultimate success. If Gears 4 doesn't tick this box then I feel the overwhelming consumer response for the title post-release won't bode well.
The popularisation of cover mechanics and jaw dropping implementation of UE3, combined with smart design decisions (active reload being one such example) struck a cord, and even additions such as Horde took hold throughout the industry and trickled into other important software releases.
This represents the big problem for The Coalition. They must simultaneously create something which similarly redefines expectations whilst building a studio from scratch.
I accept that it may seem massively unfair, but I honestly believe that simply releasing more Gears (albeit darker, with new weapons and enemies) on Xbox 1, with shiny new graphical effects will only see a downward trajectory for the franchise. In a way, Gears 3 was the ultimate Gears experience, refined to scientific precision. The addition of Judgement afterwards only diluted the appetite for more of the franchise without serious reinvention and evolution.
People don't know what they want until they have it. This was Gears' ultimate success. If Gears 4 doesn't tick this box then I feel the overwhelming consumer response for the title post-release won't bode well.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
I want Gears 4 to maintain the cutthroat feeling of Gears multiplayer where it feels like you really hurt your team if you die unnecessarily or help your team greatly by killing even just one enemy. That is the core that I absolutely cannot do without.
On the other hand, I want some new mechanics and want it to evolve from Gears 3 while keeping the core intact. Judgement destroyed the core and should be mostly ignored.
As for the campaign, it would be cool to have a more grounded campaign once again that fills the player with feelings of desolation and having a final stand sort of mindset. If they did it Gears 3 style with color and chaos everywhere that'd be fine too though; both paths would be fun to play. Oh ya and horde 4.0 has got to be badass, there's no way they'll can screw it up.
On the other hand, I want some new mechanics and want it to evolve from Gears 3 while keeping the core intact. Judgement destroyed the core and should be mostly ignored.
As for the campaign, it would be cool to have a more grounded campaign once again that fills the player with feelings of desolation and having a final stand sort of mindset. If they did it Gears 3 style with color and chaos everywhere that'd be fine too though; both paths would be fun to play. Oh ya and horde 4.0 has got to be badass, there's no way they'll can screw it up.
Mr.Fletcher
Member
Could not have said it better myself. However, I think a darker, more human story is a great opportunity to try a more understated soundtrack.
Hope they can find a balance.
I think this is a great post.
I want new monsters, weapons, characters and mechanics but I'm not expecting it to reinvent the wheel and think those expecting that will be disappointed.
However, you make good points. Without wanting to start a war, I don't want to see this go the direction of Halo and hope the team find a way spice things up.
A new killer mechanic or evolution of the cover system, as I said earlier, could be a big win.
They've already said they are doubling-down on what Gears is so I'm not expecting a drastic departure. Plus this is their first game after all.
I want them to remix what is there rather than rip it apart.
Get rid of anything that takes control away from the player, whether it be grenade stuns, ink stuns, melee stuns, or anything else. Anything that renders the player with no control and puts them through a preset animation is nothing short of an abomination and needs to be dropped.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Wasn't sure this deserved it's own thread so figured I'd just share it here.
Rod Fergusson and Ryan Cleven (Lead MP Designer) will be doing a panel during the Gears ESL finals on Sunday. The event starts at 11 AM PST although I'm sure when the panel starts as it just says "during the show."
https://gearsofwar.com/en-us/community/news/watch-the-season-1-grand-finals-this-sunday-january-10
Also it seems like Gears 4 will be featured in the February issue of OXM.
Rod Fergusson and Ryan Cleven (Lead MP Designer) will be doing a panel during the Gears ESL finals on Sunday. The event starts at 11 AM PST although I'm sure when the panel starts as it just says "during the show."
https://gearsofwar.com/en-us/community/news/watch-the-season-1-grand-finals-this-sunday-january-10
Also it seems like Gears 4 will be featured in the February issue of OXM.
I expect that to contain close to zero new information. As all "series to date, the future" review features tend to.
Mr.Fletcher
Member
I'm sceptical that we'll get anything of note but I'd be chuffed for anything at this point.
Steverulez
Member
Is that UK OXM? Im not sure there is a US one anymore admittedly
BananasWithGuns
Member
Seems that way, yeah. Probably should add that it's not my image. Pulled it from over on the Gears forums.
Steverulez
Member
Ive asked the guy that runs the UK OXM magazine... hopefully he replies. Will grab a copy if there is some Gears stuff in there.
Mr.Fletcher
Member
We've got to get some more information before the beta, in regards to the SP. It'll be odd to run around as the COG and whoever the other side will be if we have no context of who all these people are.
COG v COG wasn't popular in Judgment but if the new monsters are really alien, I could see it.
COG v COG wasn't popular in Judgment but if the new monsters are really alien, I could see it.
Steverulez
Member
I can definitely see Locust being included as MP skins for enemies if they wanted to keep that under wraps
Mr.Fletcher
Member
I think we'll have some big reveals before then. Why waste time and money bringing the old models into the new engine?
I'd be surprised by it but like you say, you can't rule it out.
I will definitely pick this up... But it seems like an odd avenue to release any real information.