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It wouldn't surprise me if some of the people who are complaining about price, never had any intention of buying the game at all. It's a 40+ hour adventure game that, from what I've heard from people who have actually been playing it, is great. Review embargo ends on Monday so by then the debate on quality and length and value will be finally squashed and hopefully this leads to more indies making these types of games and the $40 game market starts to fill out a little more.
I think that the games industry needs more tittes to fill out the gap between $20 and $60 games.

 

[Noobcraft]

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the people who are complaining about price, never had any intention of buying the game at all. It's a 40+ hour adventure game that, from what I've heard from people who have actually been playing it, is great. Review embargo ends on Monday so by then the debate on quality and length and value will be finally squashed and hopefully this leads to more indies making these types of games and the $40 game market starts to fill out a little more.
I think that the games industry needs more tittes to fill out the gap between $20 and $60 games.

O_O

 

[Messofanego]

It was a very small team with the goal of taking as much time as was needed to make the best game they could make, without pressure of time or money. Blow put all of his earnings from Braid into it, and the game grew tremendously as it went. In the end he got to make the game he wanted to make. It simply took time.

And he's been very transparent about it. The development blog is right here.

http://the-witness.net/news/

Updates start in 2009. I've been following it monthly since then.

Here's what the island looked like in May 2010.

August 2010.

March 2011. As of that update the puzzle count was 275.

Jumping ahead to December 2013. Puzzle count 595.

You can follow the development straight on through, from the development of the engine, visual design, puzzle design philosophy, how the game grew in scope as it went, etc. Final puzzle count is about 700.

Seeing this progress is pretty cool. Thanks.

 

[Carl]

O_O

I don't see anything wrong with what he just said?

 

[More_Badass]

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the people who are complaining about price, never had any intention of buying the game at all. It's a 40+ hour adventure game that, from what I've heard from people who have actually been playing it, is great. Review embargo ends on Monday so by then the debate on quality and length and value will be finally squashed and hopefully this leads to more indies making these types of games and the $40 game market starts to fill out a little more.
I think that the games industry needs more tittes to fill out the gap between $20 and $60 games.

Some impressions are already seeping out and they've been nothing but incredibly positive. Posted some from an IGN podcast on another page
And some Eurogamer impressions

I don't see anything wrong with what he just said?

Tittes

 

[piratepwnsninja]

Pre-embargo IGN impressions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEI710NY1XY&feature=youtu.be&t=33m10s

I need Tuesday to get here faster.

 

[Wok]

Some impressions are already seeping out and they've been nothing but incredibly positive. Posted some from an IGN podcast on another page
And some Eurogamer impressions


Tittes

Honestly, journalists tend to get over-excited about hyped games. They are like OMG I am one of the happy few who can play this game, this is so good, and they are also like OMG this is Blow's game, this has to be great. Subconsciously, they get positively biased towards rating the game high.

 

[Mifune]

Honestly, journalists tend to get over-excited about hyped games. They are like OMG I am one of the happy few who can play this game, this is so good, and they are also like OMG this is Blow's game, this has to be great. Subconsciously, they get positively biased towards rating the game high.

I'll still take the word of people who have played the game over those who haven't.

 

[More_Badass]

Honestly, journalists tend to get over-excited about hyped games. They are like OMG I am one of the happy few who can play this game, this is so good, and they are also like OMG this is Blow's game, this has to be great. Subconsciously, they get positively biased towards rating the game high.

If it was a GAFfer posting their early impressions of the game, would you feel the same? Or me? I mean, I get to play indie games early pretty often, and I'm usually excited about the game because I probably know about it or been following its development

What about that IGN impression doesn't make it seem genuine or honest? Those claims weren't exactly that outlandish

 

[Messofanego]

Honestly, journalists tend to get over-excited about hyped games. They are like OMG I am one of the happy few who can play this game, this is so good, and they are also like OMG this is Blow's game, this has to be great. Subconsciously, they get positively biased towards rating the game high.

He should be less excited about a game he's reviewing and found that it surpasses his expectations after following it for many years? What's the baseline excitement we're comparing this to?

It's not like he said "Jonathan Blow is a fucking genius, I would crawl through broken glass to kiss his feet".

 

[Wok]

I'll still take the word of people who have played the game over those who haven't.

If it was a GAFfer posting their early impressions of the game, would you feel the same? Or me? I mean, I get to play indie games early pretty often, and I'm usually excited about the game because I probably know about it or been following its development

What about that IGN impression doesn't make it seem genuine or honest? Those claims weren't exactly that outlandish

He should be less excited about a game he's reviewing and found that it surpasses his expectations after following it for many years? What's the baseline excitement we're comparing this to?

It's not like he said "Jonathan Blow is a fucking genius, I would crawl through broken glass to kiss his feet".

I am confident the game is great. I am just saying the atmosphere is hyped and early reviews would be biased in my opinion. It is not about honesty here.

 

[{insert code here}]

Honestly, journalists tend to get over-excited about hyped games. They are like OMG I am one of the happy few who can play this game, this is so good, and they are also like OMG this is Blow's game, this has to be great. Subconsciously, they get positively biased towards rating the game high.

What a bunch of crap. First off, since when has anyone hyped up The Witness. Most people don't even know what the game is. Having exclusive access to something has no affect on the persons enjoyment. If that were the case, every single unreleased game would be gathering behind the scenes praise, which obviously does not happen. And most people don't even know who Jonathan Blow is nor has everyone played Braid so how would that affect anything.

 

[Wok]

What a bunch of crap. First off, since when has anyone hyped up The Witness. Most people don't even know what the game is. Having exclusive access to something has no affect on the persons enjoyment. If that were the case, every single unreleased game would be gathering behind the scenes praise, which obviously does not happen. And most people don't even know who Jonathan Blow is nor has everyone played Braid so how would that affect anything.

I disagree with every single sentence that you wrote in this post.

For info, Blow has 85k followers on Twitter, and The Witness 13k. I am not going to answer the rest of your assertions now since I have to sleep.

I will just add that I have been hyped for the game for at least 5 years, if not more. I know other people who have been too, and they are not specifically hardcore gamers.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Braid was enough to earn my trust for the next title. There are enough hints that the game is deeper than just a series of similar puzzles that I'm not concerned. Just counting down the days...

 

[rezn0r]

50 + hour game for $40. Is everyone unemployed here?

Seriously starting to wonder the same thing.

 

[Catvoca]

Is there any chance this will get a 10% ps plus discount at launch like some indie games on PS4? I don't know if they usually announce discounts like that ahead of time. Regardless I will be getting it day one!

 

[toythatkills]

Is there any chance this will get a 10% ps plus discount at launch like some indie games on PS4? I don't know if they usually announce discounts like that ahead of time. Regardless I will be getting it day one!

One assumes not if it's pre-ordering at full price on Steam.

 

[injurai]

It was a very small team with the goal of taking as much time as was needed to make the best game they could make, without pressure of time or money. Blow put all of his earnings from Braid into it, and the game grew tremendously as it went. In the end he got to make the game he wanted to make. It simply took time.

And he's been very transparent about it. The development blog is right here.

http://the-witness.net/news/

Updates start in 2009. I've been following it monthly since then.

Here's what the island looked like in May 2010.



August 2010.




March 2011. As of that update the puzzle count was 275.



Jumping ahead to December 2013. Puzzle count 595.



You can follow the development straight on through, from the development of the engine, visual design, puzzle design philosophy, how the game grew in scope as it went, etc. Final puzzle count is about 700.

This is fantastic, thanks. Skimming through this I know I'll have to take a deeper look.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

Braid was enough to earn my trust for the next title. There are enough hints that the game is deeper than just a series of similar puzzles that I'm not concerned. Just counting down the days...

This is my viewpoint as well. Braid was the game that led me to believe the indie market was worth investing time in so I'll give this one a go just off GP.

 

[More_Badass]

Another tantalizing tease

There's something massive about The Witness that won't reveal itself to most players until many many hours in, fyi. To say anything more is a spoiler.

This is a special game, and I strongly encourage everyone to truly let puzzles sit with them, rather than resorting to a walkthrough or wiki. I think most gamers (including me!) are willing to give a tricky puzzle an honest shot, but then if they're stumped, on to an IGN wiki or GameFAQS they go.

Please do not do that, with The Witness. It's an open world game - go mess with another part of the island. Come back after you've slept on it or a few days later. To do anything else is to deprive yourself of something really special. Just this once, really try to let the puzzles and let the game soak in and sit with you.

Think about it like this - you only get to play The Witness for the first time once. If you give in and look up puzzle solutions, you'll enjoy the game. It's very pretty, you'll feel smart at parts, etc. But if you resist doing that, and truly solve everything youself, you'll enjoy it on an entirely different level.

To put it another way - the puzzles are the game. Looking up solutions is akin to letting someone else beat a tough shooter level for you, or giving in to the kiddie star after failing a tough Mario stage enough times.

...and plus every time you look at a walkthrough you run the risk of having The Thing spoiled for you, which you do not want.

 

[kungfuian]

Ok so I'm going to go back on my earlier post stance. While I'd still really really love a boxed product this looks every bit worth the $40 and I'm going to buy day one. Braid was a really great game and this looks even more amazing. Plus I just like Blow, who he is and what he brings to the table; feel like he deserves our dollars!

Side note- As far as gigs go not sure how the gigs per dollar thing came up earlier in this thread (almost as ridiculous an argument as game length per dollar IMO), but my tiny ps4 hard drive that's filling up quickly is as valid reason to want a boxed copy as any. Aside from really preferring boxed product as a collector, and for a bunch of other reasons, I like the idea that I can uninstall a game but still own it without having to re-download.

In the same vein, every time someone talks about wanting retail games on PS+ I can't help but wonder where I'm gonna store all those files. Much prefer original bite size content.

 

[maxcriden]

What the heck is a kiddie star? Do they mean the white tanooki suit? (I agree with the sentiment of the text, though.)

 

[baconcow]

Just think, the game comes out tomorrow for those who want to pay $40 and next year for those who want to pay $15.

 

[border]

Just think, the game comes out tomorrow for those who want to pay $40 and next year for those who want to pay $15.

It could wind up on PSN Plus by the end of the year, IMO. I will probably still get it at launch though.

 

[Rhaknar]

apparently I completely missed this news. Not gonna lie, I assumed it would be the isual $15 or at most $20 that "bigger" indie games are these days

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

apparently I completely missed this news. Not gonna lie, I assumed it would be the isual $15 or at most $20 that "bigger" indie games are these days

That hasn't been the price bracket for bigger indie games for a while now.

 

[Rhaknar]

That hasn't been the price bracket for bigger indie games for a while now.

...what?

Undertale 10, Rocket League 20. Oxenfree 20. Darkest Dungeon 20. When I say bigger I mean more popular, like Witness will be one assumes (if only for Blow), not actual size wise

 

[More_Badass]

...what?

Undertale 10, Rocket League 20. Oxenfree 20. Darkest Dungeon 20. When I say bigger I mean more popular, like Witness will be one assumes, if only for Blow), not actual size wise

$40
The Witness
Kerbal Space Program
Divinity Original Sin
The Talos Principle
Wasteland 2
Planetary Annihiliation
Offworld Trading Company
Wreckfest

$30
Warhammer Vermintide
Prison Architect
SOMA
Endless Legend
Satellite Reign
The Age of Decadence
Descent: Underground

$25
Grim Dawn
Space Engineers
Chivalry
Infinifactory
Depth
Hand of Fate
Kentucky Route Zero
Else.Heart.Break
Broken Age

 

[Rhaknar]

I dont really consider games like Divinity and Wasteland 2 indie, although I guess technically they are. Guess I just havent followed The Witness's scope then, thought it was a "smaller" game (again, not size wise). My bad

 

[More_Badass]

I dont really consider games like Divinity and Wasteland 2 indie, although I guess technically they are. Guess I just havent followed The Witness's scope then, thought it was a "smaller" game (again, not size wise)

How are they not indie games? Funded by Kickstarter, no publishers. The big indie games of the past were Braid and Limbo and Cave Story. Today, they're games like Divinity, SOMA, Talos Principle.

 

[maxcriden]

If The Witness is a good game, as it appears it will be, I hope for its every success at this price point. I'm concerned that gamers have been taught by PS+ and Steam sales to devalue indie games, however high quality they are or however high their production value is. I genuienly hope this and other games like it priced similarly help to pave the way for a sense of value to be regained in gaming in general.

 

[julzillamilitia]

worth the price in my opinion

 

[Kama_1082]

It's gonna bomb at that price. I expect a pretty deep sale in about 2-3 months.

 

[More_Badass]

It's gonna bomb at that price. I expect a pretty deep sale in about 2-3 months.

Why would it bomb? Many of the $30-$40 indies like Talos, Soma, Divinity, Prison Architect, etc. have all sold well.

Given that 1) the Witness is releasing on more platforms at launch than Braid, 2) has way more hype and anticipation due to Braid's success, and 3) is leaning towards having a very positive critical reception given the early impressions, I'm expecting The Witness to have a better first week than Braid.

Braid sold 55,000 in its first week. For comparison to another PC/PS4 indie release, Soma sold 92,000 copies in 10 days.

 

[cyba89]

It's gonna bomb at that price. I expect a pretty deep sale in about 2-3 months.

Blow has a pretty good reputation among gamers and I expect reviews to be good too so this game will do alright.

I'm 100% sure there won't be a deep sale in 2-3 months.

 

[TheExhaustedWalrus]

Can't deicde which version to get. It will run well on my PC, but I'd like to play it on my bed at night on my PS4. Are both versions supposed to be different or do they run the same?

 

[xRaizen]

I don't know anything about the game or how it's listed on PSN Store but once people read "From the creator of "BRAID" comes.." I'm pretty sure that will make lots of people buy it. I'm waiting because I'm currently playing through Darksiders 2 DE when I'm not playing BO3.. no time for other games right now. Backlog problems~

 

[firelogic]

I'm not going to blame Sony for something Blow should have known. Much like his complaints about stuff on XBLA years ago, it's him and not the service at fault.

How hard is it to make a game that was already slated to be on the console and sold on the same date at the same price be available for preorder? It shouldn't take some feat of engineering, months in advance, to add it.

"Oh hey Mr Blow, you'd like The Witness up as a preorder? Sure give me one minute...done. It's up."

That's all it should take.

As for the price, what did you expect it to cost? If previews are true, it's going to take 100hrs to finish the game. You're not willing to pay $40 for 100hrs? $40 for a game that took the man and his small team 7 years to make? Sure, the game could be crap but if it's good and has 100hrs worth of content, $40 shouldn't be a problem especially considering the garbage people buy in droves for $60+.

 

[More_Badass]

How hard is it to make a game that was already slated to be on the console and sold on the same date at the same price be available for preorder? It shouldn't take some feat of engineering, months in advance, to add it.

"Oh hey Mr Blow, you'd like The Witness up as a preorder? Sure give me one minute...done. It's up."

That's all it should take.

Sony's process obviously isn't that simple.

 

[CarbonFire]

Blow has a pretty good reputation among gamers and I expect reviews to be good too so this game will do alright.

I'm 100% sure there won't be a deep sale in 2-3 months.

It certainly will see a sale, probably either in spring or summer, but probably 25-33% tops.

 

[Beartruck]

Honestly, more than the price, the fact it's anywhere from 25-50 hours worries me more. For a title thats not an RPG, that screams bloat.

 

[More_Badass]

Honestly, more than the price, the fact it's anywhere from 25-50 hours worries me more. For a title thats not an RPG, that screams bloat.

Not in this game. I've been following its development, reading its progress posts, listening to interviews and such. This is a game that definitely wouldn't have filler puzzles. Everything has a deliberate purpose, either to teach you something to help with other puzzles or activate something or to work in conjunction with something else and so on. Early pre-embargo impressions have said as much.

 

[Dinjooh]

Honestly, more than the price, the fact it's anywhere from 25-50 hours worries me more. For a title thats not an RPG, that screams bloat.

If there's one title I'm not worried about being bloated, this is probably it.

He's addressed that point quite a lot of times by now.

 

[Corto]

It's gonna bomb at that price. I expect a pretty deep sale in about 2-3 months.

It will earn Blow 10 times what Braid did. Much anticipated game from a well known game creator, released on PC and the console with the biggest market share by far with a much focused marketing push than Braid ever had. And on top of all that, it seems it will be a very good game. It will sell gangbusters.

 

[More_Badass]

It will earn Blow 10 times what Braid did. Much anticipated game from a well known game creator, released on PC and the console with the biggest market share by far with a much focused marketing push than Braid ever had. And on top of all that, it seems it will be a very good game. It will sell gangbusters.

Plus it's a revival of that dormant puzzle-exploration genre that Myst created. This and Obduction. Talos may have been a good first person puzzler but it's not exactly the same kind of game as those.

 

[FelipeMGM]

Does anyone know exactly the time of the review embargo? I sure would love to be here for the review thread

 

[charlequin]

If The Witness is a good game, as it appears it will be, I hope for its every success at this price point. I'm concerned that gamers have been taught by PS+ and Steam sales to devalue indie games, however high quality they are or however high their production value is.

I don't know why people keep asserting this when you don't have to look far at all for titles like Divinity, Talos Principle, Pillars of Eternity, ARK, Cities: Skylines, Prison Architect, etc. etc. that were huge successes as new IP indie titles with price points at or above $30. Sufficiently content-rich and well-executed titles have proven their ability to succeed at higher prices at this point.

 

[The Illiterati]

Honestly, more than the price, the fact it's anywhere from 25-50 hours worries me more. For a title thats not an RPG, that screams bloat.

I'm sick of this. If FPS's or RPG's were designed by Blow they would feature one enemy and one battle because 99% of those games is the same garbage repeated ad infinitum, and his design style has been to cut every single thing that doesn't teach the gamer something new. Every puzzle in Braid was unique, nothing repeated.

 

[More_Badass]

I'm sick of this. If FPS's or RPG's were designed by Blow they would feature one enemy and one battle because 99% of those games is the same garbage repeated ad infinitum, and his design style has been to cut every single thing that doesn't teach the gamer something new. Every puzzle in Braid was unique, nothing repeated.

From someone who has played the game:

Everything in The Witness is deliberate. If you find something that isn't, you probably just haven't found its purpose yet.

And listening to interviews, Blow is a guy who despises bloat and filler and including content for the sake of just having stuff in a game. If there's one game that isn't going to be bloated and have filler puzzles, it's The Witness, regardless of length

 

[maxcriden]

I don't know why people keep asserting this when you don't have to look far at all for titles like Divinity, Talos Principle, Pillars of Eternity, ARK, Cities: Skylines, Prison Architect, etc. etc. that were huge successes as new IP indie titles with price points at or above $30. Sufficiently content-rich and well-executed titles have proven their ability to succeed at higher prices at this point.

Excellent point, and one I hadn't thought of. I hope this title does exceptionally well as I said above. I'm admittedly not familiar with some of those titles, let alone sales for any of those, so I may not be as qualified to comment here as I'd initially thought. Admittedly I'm coming more from the console side of things where I see people complain about indies costing more than $5 and where I see people complain about indies not coming free to PS+ immediately *and* devaluing them as not worthy of their price point to the extent to which they should have a massive day one PS+ discount and also besmirching Sony for deigning to release an indie game in PS+ rather than Knack. Also, FWIW often I see Steam users talking about how if a game is more than x amount they'll wait for a steam sale and that they'll wait for one regardless. But since I don't follow Steam threads much I might have misconception there, and on the console front hopefully it's a vocal minority giving me the wrong impression.

Thinking on it further, I can't in good conscience argue with another poster that the internet is potentially misrepresentative of popular opinion in one thread and then come in here and say that because the internet makes things out to be a certain way, we can use that to predict sales patterns. So perhaps my connection there is totally pointless and misguided.