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Firewatch | Spoiler Discussion

Tovarisc

Member
Gottah say, watching this stuff with that doofus yapping dumb shit all the time isn't the best way to get in a story

I doubt story / game gets more payoff at the end if you experience in pure silence instead of e.g. on Liriks stream. I watched Firewatch playthrough by BikeMan and I really don't think that I would get anything extra out of this game if I played by myself, because Bike was thorough with paying attention to environment and didn't miss out on dialogue.
 

Soho

Neo Member
After just finishing the game I have to say the atmosphere and the entire feel of the game was excellent, but just like the rest of the people here I would agree that the end is a bit of a letdown.

The story is good don’t get me wrong but in the end the thing that makes the game work and elevates it from just another story driven game would be the interactions between Delilah and Henry. The rest is just elements that impact the life of the characters and helps them move from the past onwards to the future in different directions. It becomes less of an adventure perhaps but more of a story between two people, which yet again works but perhaps could have been more. Still a good game that I am glad I bought.

I am left wondering if there was any chance of catching a glimpse of Delilah in the end if I had made some different choices. I left some room on my camera for said purpose :)
 
The game was really pretty and the characters were really likeable and the dialogue was really engaging but in the end I think I just didn't find it very interesting

I feel kinda the same although I did find it interesting but I'm not sure how much, for instance I don't feel like I'm interesting in getting answers of some of my doubts, it's like I feel like there's no chance that I'm going to get some meat out of it, like the best was upfront and I already got it.

Could be the end that brought me down, not sure, I actually feel like the story was good, not amazing but good even the final revelation. I don't know what it is,
I thought that there was something about to be unveiled all the time, even after everything was solved, I though that none would come back for Henry, that Delilah was involved somehow, it would have been weird and maybe a cheap shock but I had that sensation towards the end when she left and you were behind.

The same with the scientist and the whole operation camp... I think that stuff was abandoned like years ago and Ned took advantage of that, probably everything was broken and people only took what was operational and left everything else behind.

Ned was kinda paranoid even before the events with his son so, I'm not that surprised with his attitude towards Henry and Delilah but still... well... stuff.

Anyway, I liked the game, I might play it again this month since I don't have anything unplayed that I want to play and won't buy anything until Alination comes out I guess.
 
It really feels like the ending we were given was not the ending we were supposed to get based on the build up. It's almost like someone pulled the plug and said "get this shit shipped".
 
What was up with the conversation where you overheard D speaking to someone about you?

yeah wtf? they never addressed that,

i was massively let down. Im fine with a game with an intimate ending like that but i didnt feel like it was earned at all. Thats kind of how i feel about the whole game. They push this mystery and it was all there just to give you false expectations about what was happening, on purpose. All because ned saw henry one night he thought "oh ill go fucking nuts and write down everything they say on the off chance they find something about my son whom i didnt kill because literally 'i didnt want to answer questions and didnt see the point'".

the stuff with delilahs boyfriend, which i guess was completly made up by ned....i just really feel like they went in a weird direction.

it sounds like from people here, the less you talk about jules, the better chance delilah goes with you? but is that really all i missed?

It really feels like the ending we were given was not the ending we were supposed to get based on the build up. It's almost like someone pulled the plug and said "get this shit shipped".

i really dont think thats the reason why, but yeah i agree. it ends up being how i guess dealing with guilt? ned is a foregone henry? both delilah and henry were distractions for eachother or something?



just a huge let down, honestly.
 

Nibel

Member
Witness + Firewatch spoilers for babies

Just like the Witness, Firewatch is pretty beautiful and as slick in both UI and world design.
Just like the Witness, you never really see a human character model with a face in Firewatch.
Just like the Witness, the payoff is basically nonexistent in Firewatch.

I enjoyed the visuals and the dialogues between both D and H, and I understand what they were trying to do with some of the elements (dropping red herrings after another to turn that genre on its head in some way), but man it didn't really come together at all. I feel like neither D or H really underwent a real character development and are back at square one.. and maybe that's kinda the point? That no matter what you go through with a person that at a certain point you might just disconnect?

Maybe I was just expecting something darker going on. Sure, that Ned and Brian stuff is kinda tragic, but I never ever felt emotionally connected to any of these characters and how it was handled at the end was kinda weird.

I'm probably overthinking this first game by a good studio full of talented people. I had a good time with it but that's about it. If someone asks what Firewatch is, respond with "Firewatch is okay"
 

LordCanti

Member
The game is gorgeous but the story... yeah... :/

He could have saved himself a lot of time and effort by
burying the kid or else getting rid of the body. I'm not 100% clear on how Hank ends up with the key to the cave either. It's all kind of a blur because I played it all in one go, but it was on the backpack rigged to the alarm right? Did Ned set that up and if so, why? In any case, I wanted a little bit more of a payoff between Hank and his wife, or Hank and Delilah. What's there is pretty thin.
 

Spoo

Member
Just finished it, unmarked spoilers below.

So I think I get what this game wants to be, and I enjoyed it when it was firing on all cylinders; paranoia, red herrings *everywhere*, but still a dead body in the mix provide legitimate mystery -- at the core of it two people who are engaged with each other and disengaged from their real lives. And Ned, not dissimilar from them in how he has tried to handle his own crisis.

Throw in a few naked girls, a fire, and some people doing science, and you wind up with a story that ultimately goes nowhere, but is somehow exciting in the process up until the end where all is revealed, you feel silly for thinking some of the things you thought, and put it down.

But as others have said, the game leaves you empty at the end. There's no more mystery, and no wonder, and none of the characters have grown in a major way. Maybe, maybe the point is that after all the escape and late night conversations, you have to go back to real life. So Ned is going to have to have all the conversations he never wanted to have, Hank gets to go watch the love of his life fall deeper into dementia and a painful death, and our lady friend on the other line goes.... and presumably is forced to find some other way to spend her time.

It's uneventful. And maybe that's the point. But if so, it's a kind of sordid point to make. Maybe because so many players are going to want to see their characters grow, have a eureka moment, or uncover some crazy truth that just isn't there.

What your expectations are within the first 10 minutes of the game will probably determine whether you even like it. Which feels kinda bad, because the first 10 minutes point in a wider, more interesting field of view, and the ending here is so narrow-minded and -- for lack of a better word: boring -- that it feels like getting cheated out of an adventure. That said, an adventure, I guess, you were never promised.

Mechanically I didn't like *playing* the game all that much. A lot of walking, and climbing, and jumping down pits, and hacking down trees -- none of that is anywhere near as good as the talking that happens, so it feels like background noise to me. The game is pretty at times, and lifeless and boring other times. I got lost a few times, but when you realize the world isn't all that big to begin with its easier to deal with. The core of the whole thing is absolutely Delilah.

The problem is, unlike say Soma where your female companion grows and reveals herself and her ambitions, and becomes truly a character, Delilah never really does; she just seems like she is, because her voice actress is amazing and the performance is pitch perfect. There's just not much to say between the two, which feels a shame. But it's not their fault, I guess, it's more mine for assuming they had something to say to each other. And if you don't feel entitled to that relationship becoming something it's not, then there's a lot of fun to have here.

Otherwise not so much. The thing I liked the most about the game didn't go where I wanted it to, and I don't want to complain about it because it feels like it was my own expectation that was wrong. Still, up until the last few minutes, I enjoyed it.
 

Liamc723

Member
The game is gorgeous but the story... yeah... :/

He could have saved himself a lot of time and effort by
burying the kid or else getting rid of the body. I'm not 100% clear on how Hank ends up with the key to the cave either. It's all kind of a blur because I played it all in one go, but it was on the backpack rigged to the alarm right? Did Ned set that up and if so, why? In any case, I wanted a little bit more of a payoff between Hank and his wife, or Hank and Delilah. What's there is pretty thin.

Yeah, it was on the backpack. Which doesn't make much sense because if he was trying to stop them from discovering the body of his son, why on earth would he put the keys to the cave on that backpack?
 
the reveal just isnt earned. you dont really get a lot about ned or brian. you just know about them. you know delilah didnt like ned.

and then on the last day....he just leaves you a tape? "hey heres the whole plot."

delilah is pretty whatever about it. and then you leave.

i hate the comment "lazy devs". thats not what this is. its just lazy story telling, IMO.

Yeah, it was on the backpack. Which doesn't make much sense because if he was trying to stop them from discovering the body of his son, why on earth would he put the keys to the cave on that backpack?

yeah this made no sense."plot reasons"

and ned destroying the girls camp. isnt he trying to be low key? so he does that for....why?

and then to just be like OH BTW THE GIRLS WERE ARRESTED LOLZ. just weak.
 
The problem is, unlike say Soma where your female companion grows and reveals herself and her ambitions, and becomes truly a character, Delilah never really does; she just seems like she is, because her voice actress is amazing and the performance is pitch perfect. There's just not much to say between the two, which feels a shame. But it's not their fault, I guess, it's more mine for assuming they had something to say to each other. And if you don't feel entitled to that relationship becoming something it's not, then there's a lot of fun to have here.

Otherwise not so much. The thing I liked the most about the game didn't go where I wanted it to, and I don't want to complain about it because it feels like it was my own expectation that was wrong. Still, up until the last few minutes, I enjoyed it.

dead on. and henry doesnt grow either. they say in the prologue opening up to the bartender is a huge weight of your shoulders. they mention how, if you choose to take care of your girl, you just basically become a shell. so i guess the point is henry gets to escape, gets to confide and connect with someone else, and reality hits, and his distractions, his big mystery, his escape, is over. the escape helicopter is taking him back to where he doesnt want to go.

but theres no growth. for either character. and maybe thats the point. that the big mystery is nothing, that the connections with other people are fleeting, and reality is reality.

as a point, thats interesting. as a game, it was boring to play, but a super engaging story, until its just not
 

Emarv

Member
I'm just kind of amazed how many people were disappointed there was no big, high-concept 3rd Act reveal. Honestly, I was more disappointed when they were even hinting at big conspiracy stuff at first, but was relieved when it was just a small, human story.
 
I'm just kind of amazed how many people were disappointed there was no big, high-concept 3rd Act reveal. Honestly, I was more disappointed when they were even hinting at big conspiracy stuff at first, but was relieved when it was just a small, human story.

i would of been fine with either, i just didnt think it did a good job at either
 

Big_Al

Unconfirmed Member
Finished it there now and loved the ending. For me it was basically a story about someone getting away from their reality, connecting with someone and then leaving that fleeting moment of goodness to go back to their reality. I liked that the 'mystery' was as simple as it was even if certain things not making any sense, like the key for the cave on the backpack.

Overall I'm very satisfied, pity they don't have some kind of 'hiking' mode for after finishing the game where you can just walk about the world in silence.
 

Spoo

Member
so who was D talking to on the phone or whatever when she left her radio on?

I think this is yet another red herring. It's a way to get the player to start questioning peoples' motivations early on, and since Delilah is one of few main characters, they want you to at first suppose she is "in" on something. What she's talking about, who she's talking to, it doesn't matter.

Of course, they rather clearly attempt to eliminate her as a 'suspect' early on. It's just one of the paranoia cards they are playing.
 

RiverBed

Banned
Just finished it. I liked the intense opening. I was disappointed that in the end, NOTHING was going on. I don't know why that expensive equipment was left behind in the fenced area. No major plot twist or development. I was scared when I got ambushed out of the blue, but I didn't connect with D nor 'opened up' to her and kept my conversation with her professional. Which is why I didn't freak out when we were recorded and I felt weird that she did.
For a second, I thought D was behind everything and was following me and was going to kill me and maybe she was a crazy hermit, but nope, nothing at all. The ending was a whimper as well.

But it was a new experience and the game is relatively cheap. I may replay it again to choose a completely different personality and see if the conversations changed- as I don't expect anything else to.


P.S. what's with the spoiler tags in a spoiler thread? Isn't that redundant?
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I've got mixed feelings about it. I agree that it did a good job of interplay between the characters, but having the crazed dad acting in contradictory manners that the plot demanded just went a bridge too far for me to buy into. Since we never saw anything of him I couldn't really care less about him and his boy and his guilt.

The whole "nothing's changed, but I guess I'll write a book about it" implied ending is just overdone at this point. I guess ultimately I just wanted some payoff the game wasn't willing to give me.

(In particular, the idea that an academic research team has left all this high tech gear lying around and that the dad wants to make H. paranoid before eventually revealing his secret... just no.)

On one hand, I guess the mundane explanations of games like this and Gone Home "makes sense" in that the real world isn't filled with elaborate conspiracies and creepy bodies we're expecting in corners of the house, but it also feels like a cheap way of writing yourself an exit hatch instead of committing to your premise.

I do think that the game did an excellent job of using audio, though. The slow build of music when something's going down punctuating stretches of just ambient music really worked well.
 
Another thing is, are we supposed to believe the huge gap in days and Ned just decided not to fuck with them for up to 30 days ,etc.Then suddenly start again? Why?
 
On one hand, I guess the mundane explanations of games like this and Gone Home "makes sense" in that the real world isn't filled with elaborate conspiracies and creepy bodies we're expecting in corners of the house, but it also feels like a cheap way of writing yourself an exit hatch instead of committing to your premise.
This is how I feel about it as well tbh. While I loved the presentation, and I liked both characters, I was really enjoying myself right up until the non-twist and it kind of ruined it for me a bit. Like yeah, it's "realistic" I guess but it's not satisfying, as a player.
 
Another thing is, are we supposed to believe the huge gap in days and Ned just decided not to fuck with them for up to 30 days ,etc.Then suddenly start again? Why?

Ned said that he thought that it wasn't necessary to keep going after them but something (I don't remember what) happened that forced him (in his mind) to go back against them.

Regarding the science stuff, I think the place was abandoned with broken tech and Ned repaired most of the stuff, he had tools and gear in his hideout.
 

jacobeid

Banned
I just read through the thread and while I completely get the questions and critiques of the story, I had an absolutely fantastic time playing the game. Just did it in two sessions (dinner break) and I was pretty enamored. Lots to love.
 
This is how I feel about it as well tbh. While I loved the presentation, and I liked both characters, I was really enjoying myself right up until the non-twist and it kind of ruined it for me a bit. Like yeah, it's "realistic" I guess but it's not satisfying, as a player.

Games have this idea that they have to craft or brew up grand visions and thoughts on what a game could be about and then smack it back to reality. It feels a bit forced every single time I experience it.
 
I had a great time playing through Firewatch. Although, the story bothered me at some points. Why would Ned go out of his way to do all of this just to help at the end for no reason? Plus, why did Henry never choose to meet up with Delilah in all the time they were there? Like others have already stated, the build up just led to disapointment. There was no need for certain things to take place. I wish there was more of a focus on H + D's relationship. And that ending..jeeze.
 

LordCanti

Member
I don't know why that expensive equipment was left behind in the fenced area.

There was some variety of science experiment going on there but the researchers weren't there during the time the game takes place. Why the place was a secret to the forest service is never explained.
 
Actually you saying that makes me appreciate the ending more. I hadn't thought of it in that mindset.

Yeah well but come on, you can be called paranoid if someone is walking behind you and you panic. But if some miles long fence appears in the forest and your boss knows nothing about it (and it ends up being a science shit campsite with lots of information about you and your boss), someone hit you in the head and left you messages, and you find transcriptions of your conversations... that's not being paranoid at all.
 
So, is it possible to make Delilah hate you or some different ending? I got a red response only once, is there more of those?

It seems cheap for me to say, but knowing I was never in any real danger takes the fun out of it a bit.
 

DigtialT

Member
The First half was a very solid 7/10
The second half was a disappointing 6/10

I wish they would have kept the story between Henry and Delilah. Have them talk about their past, their problems, and help each other grow or something. Honestly the fact that, no matter what you do, they both end up as friends who will most likely never see each other again is the biggest disappointment in the whole game.
 
Where to start...

First i will say that i loved the game so much i finished it in two sittings. Hey, a man has to eat dinner.

This game did a lot of things right. The dialog was magnificent, the choices actually changed the conversations and attitude of Delilah, the world was beautifully created and fit the mood of Henry, good controls, and some cool things to find to help fill in some story and the environment.

At the same time, a big problem was the storytelling. If Ned and Brian were going to be the climax ending, then we needed to know more about Ned and Brian. We needee to care about them, we needed to know them a lot more than we did. I was listening to the tape that Ned left for me and i felt no sympathy for him even though i believe it was an accident. Why did i feel no sympathy? Because i dont know the man. I knew his name.

The next thing, and this is what truly keeps this from being a great game in my opinion, is the lack of relationship progression between Henry and D. The banter was great, they liked each other, they shared past stories, the flirted....all for nothing. At the end when Henry gets turned down when he asks her to come to Boulder I was like....so thats it? Then she tells me to go to Julia, a woman that i as the player has no connection with whatsoever.

So, to sum it up...

Beautiful game in a world i enjoyed traversing.
Great characters in Henry and D
A story that kept me interested...until near the end
Bad storytelling introducing Ned and Brian as the focal points of the game near the end.
Lack of relationship progression

Its a good game that i would recommend to a friend. Its not a great game due to the negatives i pointed out. The ending just....it missed the mark by a lot.
 
I have to say tho when the game worked it really worked. I even had a little bit of role play going on, I would leave Shelley Duvall in my tower if I thought I was going to be in danger, but as the fire started spreading I began bringing her with me in case she was trapped inside. :p
 

Nivert

Member
Yeah well but come on, you can be called paranoid if someone is walking behind you and you panic. But if some miles long fence appears in the forest and your boss knows nothing about it (and it ends up being a science shit campsite with lots of information about you and your boss), someone hit you in the head and left you messages, and you find transcriptions of your conversations... that's not being paranoid at all.

Oh for sure and I still wouldn't say it's a great payoff. I was just thinking about how I was personally coming up with weird and crazy theories in my head as the story was ramping up which the characters themselves were doing and how easy it was to get carried away in that thought process.
 

Kid Ska

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
So I just finished it in one sitting and overall... underwhelming. It tried to do too many things and ended up falling short on most of them. Delilah and Henry's relationship, Henry's guilt about Julia, Ned and Brian (who strangely became the main characters for the last third of the game, which was just totally out of left field).. hell even the conclusion of the two girls' story was a bit of a let down. The experience itself was fine and the game was gorgeous with some excellent atmosphere, but it definitely left me wanting more.

I will say though that finding the body in the cave tugged at my heart strings a bit.

edit: Jesus I didn't even play enough to get all of the Steam card drops...
 

jett

D-Member
It feels like Olly Moss got the idea of making a game about being a park ranger and got as far as shooing away a couple of teens causing mischief. Doesn't really seem like much thought was put into the overall plot. What an honestly crappy way of wrapping the game up. The game should've focused entirely on Henry and D instead of going off the rails on some bogus conspiracy stuff that came out of left field and honestly served very little purpose.

It's just an underwhelming title.
 

Anno

Member
I guess maybe I'm in the minority that thought the ending was excellent. H and D had a very...normal, ending, I guess. One that would much more likely happen than getting together afterwards or whatever. Henry has his responsibilities, Delilah has her own baggage with Brian's death. In some ways I wish the game would have been more about their budding romance or whatever, but in the end I think they made the right choice.
 

Compsiox

Banned
An all around great game. Great atmosphere and great narrative.

9/10

Really enjoyed all of it. Not getting to see her in the end really sucked though.
 

dofry

That's "Dr." dofry to you.
First half good, second half squanders all that it could have been.

And stop taking all others characters out of these kind of games. I want to meet other people. At least give me that in the end. Pilot even having a helmet was...why?

Banter in the radio was excellent and made the duos very likeable. But knowing that they never meet was so cliche. Soooooo cliche.

I wanted some crazy axe murderer plot. Not this. But, still recommend as the atmosphere is great for the first half.

/end incoherent rant
 

Ferrio

Banned
Just got done. My conclusion:

cdxHJth.gif
 

lugicarus

Banned
Just finished the game. I think D had something to do with Brian's death in someway shape or form. There was a hint that Brian was attracted to her and when you finally get to her tower there's a book on her bed that talks about "leading someone on and betraying them". In the big climax of the story that's pretty much the only thing you find in her tower.

She creates false police reports about the girls and doesn't tell anyone about Brian. She has an interest in keeping things silent and then she bails right away the first second she can.

She tells Henry she snuck in the middle of the night to plant the private two way radio so she could do the same for starting the fire during the radio technology.

I don't have it all planned out and the whole thing is all red herrings. I don't know if the game is interesting enough to even figure out but I think I'm on to something with D being the antagonist. What do you think gaf? Do you inspect the book at the tower?
 

Compsiox

Banned
Just finished the game. I think D had something to do with Brian's death in someway shape or form. There was a hint that Brian was attracted to her and when you finally get to her tower there's a book on her bed that talks about "leading someone on and betraying them". In the big climax of the story that's pretty much the only thing you find in her tower.

She creates false police reports about the girls and doesn't tell anyone about Brian. She has an interest in keeping things silent and then she bails right away the first second she can.

She tells Henry she snuck in the middle of the night to plant the private two way radio so she could do the same for starting the fire during the radio technology.

I don't have it all planned out and the whole thing is all red herrings. I don't know if the game is interesting enough to even figure out but I think I'm on to something with D being the antagonist. What do you think gaf? Do you inspect the book at the tower?

Sounds very plausible if nothing you say is being misinterpreted in their context.
 
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