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[plagiarize]

But what steps will Clinton take to move us further to the left? Her dismissal of the biggest problems inherent to American society is really troubling.

Your 'biggest problems' aren't what America thinks are the biggest problem. Neither are mine (the environment and gun control).

You throw that around like it's a fact that those are the biggest problem, when most people don't see it that way.

 

[Future]

I thought this thread would be about the sanders numbers more than everything else. This right here folks is how things backfire and trump or Rubio gets into office. Everyone says how impossible it is... And it should be. As long as democrats don't implode when the ultra liberal candidate doesn't get the nomination in favor of someone more moderate that toes the line (a line that will still lead to a liberal Supreme Court justice and other things for liberals as a whole)

 

[Valhelm]

Bernie Sanders focuses ONLY on class inequality while completely ignoring racial inequality. This is why he loses black voters 85 to 15.

But Bernie Sanders has been there on racial inequality. He supported Black Lives Matter before Clinton did, and never endorsed or voted for regressive anti-black policy.

No. It wouldn't.

Do you mind elaborating? Black voters are disproportionately poor, and some of the most serious tenets of white supremacy could not be upheld if they were lifted from poverty.

 

[plagiarize]

If there was free college, blacks would become educated enough to see voting for Bernie is in their best interest. See. It truly does help us uneducated blacks more than whites.

This is far from the truth. Money does not even begin to remove a target from our backs. Hell, being one of the good ones only lasts until we do the one thing that pisses everyone off and then it is back to being a bad black again.

Seriously, you guys are a credit. It's hilarious hearing how entitled young white voters are.

"Wait wait? Our voices don't get heard unless we actually vote? THAT'S BULLSHIT."

 

[Grexeno]

Are you serious? Class inequality is Bernie's central issue but he doesn't completely ignore racial inequality. Do the bare minimum of research before making such claims - go to his website. Here: https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

Hillary Clinton received 96% of the vote from black voters over 65.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Are you serious? Class inequality is Bernie's central issue but he doesn't completely ignore racial inequality. Do the bare minimum of research before making such claims - go to his website. Here: https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

That's like saying someone that gave you a happy birthday 15 years ago is excused for apparently dismissing your birthday every time it is mentioned. Stop harping on yesterday, I need some action today.

 

[Measley]

no. His adviser Tad Devine confirmed such. He's going far left for the general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYe_0CRfU-Q

Yet another reason why Clinton needs to win the nomination over Sanders.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Bernie Sanders focuses ONLY on class inequality while completely ignoring racial inequality. This is why he loses black voters 85 to 15.

He doesn't ignore it.

He actually does bring it up and discuss. It's just unfortunate that he swings it back around to general income equality, when people would rather him site specific issues of racial inequality that aren't a part of the income disparity.

 

[The Adder]

Are you serious? Class inequality is Bernie's central issue but he doesn't completely ignore racial inequality. Do the bare minimum of research before making such claims - go to his website. Here: https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

JESUS CHRIST SOMEONE POSTED "HE MARCHED WITH DOCTOR KING" UNIRONICALLY

Someone get the balloons and confetti!

 

[Nipo]

You do realize there are campaign contribution limits, right? When its reported that Goldman Sachs has given $200,000 to the Clinton campaign, it really means a bunch of Goldman Employees have given up to their limit to the campaign as individuals. They group them by employer when reporting.

Super surprising people from NYC giving to their ex senator, I know.

We could also write of the Maple Surup Cabal funding Bernie, but that just sound redicous and not at all nefarious.

Best estimate I've seen is wall street donated $69 million with a few hedge fund managers donating a million each. Maybe that is OK with you that's fine but I won't vote for her.https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/clinton-money/

 

[LegendofJoe]

You can't be outright antagonistic towards big business and expect to not face an onslaught of backlash when you try to push legislation that they feel will harm them. You have to make them believe you will take their positions into account, but at the same time make them understand that they WILL have to give up something for the greater good. Hillary will be able to sit down with Wall Street and get them to agree to reforms that will put both the industry and and the public on more stable footing. Bernie wouldn't be able to sit down and have that conversation with them, they'd oppose anything and everything he supports because he has made no attempt to build bridges with them.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Are you serious? Class inequality is Bernie's central issue but he doesn't completely ignore racial inequality. Do the bare minimum of research before making such claims - go to his website. Here: https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

I was waiting for someone to pull the MLK card. As the the black people interviewed in SC said:

SO WHAT?

So Bernie marched with MLK? Guess what, virtually every black person over a certain age in SC is a Civil Rights hero of some kind.

Why does Bernie deserve a cookie? Is it cause he's white?

 

[plagiarize]

Best estimate I've seen is wall street donated $69 million with a few hedge fund managers donating a million each. Maybe that is OK with you that's fine but I won't vote for her.https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/clinton-money/

Why would you put that over her voting record?

 

[D1renegade]

So Gaf, what's the best source for comparing the current candidates and their policies?

 

[NeoXChaos]

Are you serious? Class inequality is Bernie's central issue but he doesn't completely ignore racial inequality. Do the bare minimum of research before making such claims - go to his website. Here: https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

I think the real reason Hillary is so much more appealing to black voters is that she has characterised herself as pragmatic candidate who can actually bring about change, albeit incrementally. Bernie on the other hand has been painted as an idealist who won't get anything done

really? Just for that I am voting against bernie even harder on Saturday.

 

[typist]

Hillary Clinton received 96% of the vote from black voters over 65.

I know. My point is that you are flat out deluded if you think Bernie completely ignores racial inequality

 

[Kyosaiga]

He just used Bernie getting arrested pic.

SMH.

 

[The Adder]

Do you mind elaborating? Black voters are disproportionately poor, and some of the most serious tenets of white supremacy could not be upheld if they were lifted from poverty.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gates_arrest_controversy

Money doesn't matter. Education doesn't matter. I can have all of that and more and to them I'm still a nigger.

 

[Cabbagehead]

You can't be outright antagonistic towards big business and expect to not face an onslaught of backlash when you try to push legislation that they feel will harm them. You have to make them believe you will take their positions into account, but at the same time make them understand that they WILL have to give up something for the greater good. Hillary will be able to sit down with Wall Street and get them to agree to reforms that will put both the industry and and the public on more stable footing. Bernie wouldn't be able to sit down and have that conversation with them, they'd oppose anything and everything he supports because he has made no attempt to build bridges with them.

Delusional if I've ever seen it.

Big business is corrupt as fuck, so many hands in so many pies.

The only bridge you will build is bending over backwards and saying how do you do.

 

[Grexeno]

I know. My point is that you are flat out deluded if you think Bernie completely ignores racial inequality

It's really quite simple; if Bernie Sanders even slightly acknowledges racial inequality, he should have been able to get more than 15% of the black vote.

 

[TyrantII]

Best estimate I've seen is wall street donated $69 million with a few hedge fund managers donating a million each. Maybe that is OK with you that's fine but I won't vote for her.https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/clinton-money/

SCOTUS judge Ted Cruz.

You people make me laugh. Let's just burn it all down because we don't get 100% our way right away. Sorry, that's not progressism policy. That is teahadism and green rainbow bullshit.


Meanwhile, we know the stakes: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0VZ2TF

 

[Xe4]

So way not refuse campaign funding from them?

Because to actually pass any sort of meaningful reforms anywhere, she and her down ticket races need money. And also receiving money from bankers and banks doesn't mean you support them or that they are trying to bribe you. There are plenty of liberal bankers that support regulation, or otherwise support Hillary for other reasons.

The biggest example I can think of is Warren Buffett.

 

[giga]

really? Just for that I am voting against bernie even harder on Saturday.

 

[pigeon]

Because it shows you taking a stand against an industry you think is corrupt.

So what?

Do you care about appearances or about results?

 

[Nipo]

Why would you put that over her voting record?

As far as I have heard she hasn't votes or come out in support of breaking up the banks and reinstating glass steagall has she?

 

[pigeon]

Are you serious? Class inequality is Bernie's central issue but he doesn't completely ignore racial inequality. Do the bare minimum of research before making such claims - go to his website. Here: https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

I think the real reason Hillary is so much more appealing to black voters is that she has characterised herself as a pragmatic candidate who can actually bring about change, albeit incrementally. Bernie on the other hand has been painted as an idealist who won't get anything done. Also there is the narrative which suggests Hillary is more likely to win the GE

I mean, I think the numbers tell the tale. Black voters didn't just vote against Sanders. They rated him less trustworthy and less liberal. Does that sound to you like somebody they think is better on racial justice than Hillary Clinton?

As far as I have heard she hasn't votes or come out in support of breaking up the banks and reinstating glass steagall has she?

She has come out in support of financial regulation that heavily restricts banking actions to ensure they can't create an interdependency financial crisis. In fact, it's Dodd-Frank. It's working right now to guarantee that the banks that are overleveraged on energy loans to fracking companies are holding enough capital to support their default risk. This could very easily have been the financial crisis of 2016 but it's basically already over thanks to Dodd-Frank.

 

[typist]

I was waiting for someone to pull the MLK card. As the the black people interviewed in SC said:

SO WHAT?

So Bernie marched with MLK? Guess what, virtually every black person over a certain age in SC is a Civil Rights hero of some kind.

Why does Bernie deserve a cookie? Is it cause he's white?

Dude... I didn't even mention MLK, calm down. I'm not saying Bernie deserves the black vote jesus christ try reading my post. I'm just rebutting the notion that Bernie, and I quote: "completely ignores racial inequality."

It's really quite simple; if Bernie Sanders even slightly acknowledges racial inequality, he should have been able to get more than 15% of the black vote.

If that's what you think I was trying to say then please read my post again. I was just criticising your assertion that Bernie: "completely ignores racial inequality."

I mean, I think the numbers tell the tale. Black voters didn't just vote against Sanders. They rated him less trustworthy and less liberal. Does that sound to you like somebody they think is better on racial justice than Hillary Clinton?

I didn't even say who I think is better on racial justice???? I'll clarify, I think Hillary and Bernie are more or less equally good on racial justice

 

[Maxim726X]

It's not untrue. Saddam was a monster, but his quasi-socialist policies were more progressive than what Bill Clinton supported in the same timeframe. Take away his nationalism and extreme racism, and Saddam isn't too very different from Nasser.

Oh, so if you just gloss over the parts where he exploited and murdered his own people, he's more progressive than Bill!

And how did his people thrive in this progressive utopia Hussein benevolently bestowed?

 

[Cabbagehead]

This thread is a prime example on why politics and neogaf don't mix. Knee jerk nation

 

[LegendofJoe]

Delusional if I've ever seen it.

Big business is corrupt as fuck, so many hands in so many pies.

The only bridge you will build is bending over backwards and saying how do you do.

In an idealist, fantasy world yes.

 

[pigeon]

I didn't even say who I think is better on racial justice???? wtf

You're responding to somebody explaining that lack of trust on racial justice is why Sanders lost black voters so badly in South Carolina, disagreeing, and offering an alternate theory.

Why don't you understand the context of your own posts?

 

[Nipo]

SCOTUS judge Ted Cruz.

You people make me laugh. Let's just burn it all down because we don't get 100% our way right away. Sorry, that's not progressism policy. That is teahadism and green rainbow bullshit.


Meanwhile, we know the stakes: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0VZ2TF

If Americans decide they want Cruz in office that is OK. It is just a sign I should go back to Canada or the EU. I keep wanting the US to be more progressive than it is. I am just thankful I can go back to more left countries if I have to.

 

[ampere]

Best estimate I've seen is wall street donated $69 million with a few hedge fund managers donating a million each. Maybe that is OK with you that's fine but I won't vote for her.https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/clinton-money/

Personally I think we need to get rid of citizen's united and SuperPACs, but realistically can you win a generally without them if the other side is using them?

I think Hillary is just being more realistic. Remember when Obama didn't want to use a SuperPAC at first? His advisers probably explained how unrealistic that was

 

[FyreWulff]

If you're gonna bring up the Bernie arrest photo you also have to accept the fact that being arrested as a white person was a different experience than for black citizens arrested for the same thing.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Bernie Sanders focuses ONLY on class inequality while completely ignoring racial inequality. This is why he loses black voters 85 to 15.

Let us dispel this fiction that Sanders doesn't talk about racial inequality

I'm voting for Hillary but this isn't true. It is an issue he cares about, He does talk about it. I don't think he seems all that comfortable discussing it but still..

What I think the problem is and what has led to him losing the black vote so much to Hillary is not that Sanders ignores the issues that they care about, but that people aren't convinced at his assessment of the sources of the problem.

From what I gather looking at all of this, is that the majority of black voters do not see Wall Street and bought out politicians as their great stumbling block. Who has bought out Trump making him say all of these racist things? Which lobbyist has bought out republicans making them enact all these racist policies ? If anything that's a populist measure to appeal to racist white voters and one of the few things they come up with themselves.

 

[Maxim726X]

Personally I think we need to get rid of citizen's united and SuperPACs, but realistically can you win a generally without them if the other side is using them?

I think Hillary is just being more realistic. Remember when Obama didn't want to use a SuperPAC at first? His advisers probably explained how unrealistic that was

Well, money=victory. Just ask Jeb, he'll tell you all about it.

 

[Cabbagehead]

In an idealist, fantasy world yes.

No fantasy world needed. You scratch my back i scratch yours.

Matter of fact the election process needs to be re worked and re tooled for the modern era. Because right now it's a cluster fuck almost zero trust or accountability. But who I'm kidding.

 

[plagiarize]

Oh, so if you just gloss over the parts where he exploited and murdered his own people, he's more progressive than Bill!

And how did his people thrive in this progressive utopia Hussein benevolently bestowed?

People do this all the time. They look at the policies in isolation without looking at what the status quo was before them.

Bill Clinton moved the country further left than it was given to him, as did Obama. As will Hillary Clinton.

It's true the Obama's healthcare plan isn't entirely dissimilar to what the Conservatives in the UK are trying to implement, but you have to look at what is being replaced and whether that was a step to the left or the right.

On many things right now, there's no difference between a step to the center and a step to the left. Obama's policies were 'centrist' because he was handed a country that was generally to the right or far right.

 

[stupei]

But Bernie Sanders has been there on racial inequality. He supported Black Lives Matter before Clinton did, and never endorsed or voted for regressive anti-black policy.



Do you mind elaborating? Black voters are disproportionately poor, and some of the most serious tenets of white supremacy could not be upheld if they were lifted from poverty.

White supremacy doesn't require a foundation for its hatred.

Trayvon Martin did not live in poverty. Sandra Bland, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, and Renisha McBride were not living in poverty and yet they're all still dead. This idea that the primary problem is economic misses the reality. If you think black doctors and lawyers haven't been treated like shit just for being black, I'm not sure what America you live in.

The fact that Sanders always pivots racial inequality back to Wall Street seems to accept that racism in America is primarily class based, and that simply is not true. This is why people find it disingenuous to suggest that income inequality is the most important issue for all Americans. Fixing these economic issues won't stop black people from being murdered.

 

[typist]

You're responding to somebody explaining that lack of trust on racial justice is why Sanders lost black voters so badly in South Carolina, disagreeing, and offering an alternate theory.

Why don't you understand the context of your own posts?

This is the post I was responding to:

Bernie Sanders focuses ONLY on class inequality while completely ignoring racial inequality. This is why he loses black voters 85 to 15.

He is saying, unequivocally, that Bernie completely ignores racial inequality, and that is why he is unpopular with blacks. He's not saying that it's a trust issue. If his post was:

Lack of trust on racial justice is why Sanders lost black voters so badly in South Carolina

then I would not have disagreed with him

 

[LegendofJoe]

No fantasy world needed. You scratch my back i scratch yours.

That goes both ways, showing business you're amenable to seeing things from their perspective will make them more likely to see things from yours and work with you. And the more power you actually wield in Congress the more likely you are to bend them towards your direction rather than theirs.

 

[plagiarize]

No fantasy world needed. You scratch my back i scratch yours.

Matter of fact the election process needs to be re worked and re tooled for the modern era. Because right now it's a cluster fuck almost zero trust or accountability. But who I'm kidding.

Do you know how you get accountability? You vote at every level and every opportunity from your town officials all the way up to the President. You can't just show up once every four years and vote for the president you like and think they can change everything from the top down.

If young voters had turned out two years ago, a Sanders presidency would have been able to achieve an awful lot more of his goals were he elected President.

But they didn't. So he'd be walking into absolute gridlock and would be forced into passing more moderate changes, just as Obama has been.

Sanders is really popular with a group that can't be bothered to vote. That's not going to get much done. Politicians don't care about what non voters think. They never have.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

Bill Clinton moved the country further left than it was given to him

Now I've seen everything

 

[The Adder]

This is the post I was responding to:



He is saying, unequivocally, that Bernie completely ignores racial inequality, and that is why he is unpopular with blacks. He's not saying that it's a trust issue. If his post was:



then I would not have disagreed with him

Saying racial inequality comes from income inequality is ignoring racial inequality.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Dude... I didn't even mention MLK, calm down. I'm not saying Bernie deserves the black vote jesus christ try reading my post. I'm just rebutting the notion that Bernie, and I quote: "completely ignores racial inequality."

There is no other reason for you to post that photo other than to insinuate that Bernie is a Special Snowflake for marching with MLK.

A picture's worth a thousand words.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Do you know how you get accountability? You vote at every level and every opportunity from your town officials all the way up to the President. You can't just show up once every four years and vote for the president you like and think they can change everything from the top down.

If young voters had turned out two years ago, a Sanders presidency would have been able to achieve an awful lot more of his goals were he elected President.

But they didn't. So he'd be walking into absolute gridlock and would be forced into passing more moderate changes, just as Obama has been.

Sanders is really popular with a group that can't be bothered to vote. That's not going to get much done. Politicians don't care about what non voters think. They never have.

Don't talk to me about it. Voting has its own stigma, history, videos and information it can't change. Young voters don't get the real point in the end. An when they did come out of the shadow it didn't turn out so grand. Politics and the race to the seat is a big show and they sell you the world but at the end of that term. Reality is a bitch you only a get a slice, because the show doesn't stop with the white house. You need the seats and if you don't get those you get years of off and on gridlock on issues.

Also I don't think you understand what I meant by accountability. I'm talking about the process and the system it self is broken and is gamed more often then I care to note.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

If there was free college, blacks would become educated enough to see voting for Bernie is in their best interest. See. It truly does help us uneducated blacks more than whites.

I understand you might be African American, but it is still racist for you to say that.

 

[Ekai]

Dude... I didn't even mention MLK, calm down. I'm not saying Bernie deserves the black vote jesus christ try reading my post. I'm just rebutting the notion that Bernie, and I quote: "completely ignores racial inequality."

They don't care for what you're trying to actually argue here. Facts of Bernie's long history throughout the years (and in present day) on civil rights for minorities be damned, I guess.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I understand you might be African American, but it is still racist for you to say that.

I'm being sarcastic. I don't believe that at all. Education has nothing to do with the turnout from AA for Hillary vs Bernie. It has to do with an analysis of who will be able to win and possibly accomplish what they are setting out to do

 

[silvermember]

This thread is a prime example on why politics and neogaf don't mix. Knee jerk nation

Since was knee jerk reaction to politics a gaf exclusive problem?