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Lionhead Studios and Press Play closed. Fable legends cancelled.

_machine

Member
Wow. Lionhead is closed? Damn that sucks. Hope everyone lands on their feet. I wasn't really that excited about Fable Legends but I probably would have been down for Fable 4. Why didn't they just make another Fable game instead of FL?
I don't think Legends was the greatest business decision either, but Fable 3 didn't do nearly well enough (they "needed" to sell more than 5 million copies, and the previous installments apparently outsold it at 3 and 3.5 million respectively) and it's highly unlikely that they would have been able to sell more with the next on a constrained user base and much higher production costs. The power of the Fable IP just didn't seem to be enough to match the expectations of AAA business investment.

Wait isn't Moon Studios owned by Microsoft?
No, they are completely independent, but Ori was partly funded (if I remember correctly) by MS.
 
Wait isn't Moon Studios owned by Microsoft?

Nope, independent team. Remote studio as well, they don't have one location where everyone works etc, they have people all over the place

So apparently 8 studios have been removed from MicrosoftStudios.com (though it may not mean anything really).

https://twitter.com/VG_Dave/status/706957781417533440


Big Park - Kinect Games

Good Science - Kinect + Hololens Games

FUNction - Hololens Games

SOTA - Hololens Games

Team Dakota - Project Spark

Lionshead - Fable

Press Play - Mobile Games

Leap Experience Pioneers - Hololens most likely, couldve been Kinect

Big Park moved onto apps in 2012/2013, I don't think LXP ever made Kinect games, they were on Hololens
 
Let's put it this way - theres no way you don't have some sort of software deal with MS within the games industry today, saw this deal, and not think that anyone of them is liable for termination at a moment's notice. Especially the 3rd party contracts.

Stumkapow said it best in his post, but them shuddering both Lionhead & Press Play says more about their interest in even owning these types of software producers. Press Play was acquired relatively recently & had a new project in the works and Lionhead had another project in-development as well as Fable Legends. Fable Legends itself was apparently very, VERY far in development, with some people who played it in the beta attesting that a F2P form of it could've already been released at this point. Today, MS 1st party lost 3 projects that we know of, not just two studios. And MS had not just sunk money into these game's development, but also in acquiring & technically training them (Lionhead is said to have produced some solid tech for UE4).

MS invested a lot into these companies and are now telling us that they will continue to invest & focus in the kind of games gamers want to play? Make no mistake - any 3rd party contract is now liable to be dropped at a moment's notice as far as i'm concerned. Quantum Break will come out, but Scalebound & ReCore are projects i'm afraid for now. If MS was willing to cut a project & close a studio that was months away from shipping, while also shutting down another studio that had a large amount of potential within its own niche, than who is to say they will continue on any contract that isn't pushing some other vested interest? Thats why i'm sure Crackdown will make to launch, since that is pushing their physics cloud-rendering tech.
Scalebound will come out. Kamiya always delivers on a finished product and plus Microsoft can't afford to take off another exclusive. They need games. If anything happens to ReCore I'm honestly willing to bet the fault will come down on Inafune than Microsoft.
 

DigSCCP

Member
Bungie bought/forced their independence. It has worked for them, but they have TONS of pressure to produce.
Halo 5 sold just fine.
Gears will do fine.
Insomniac never really left Sony. They have always had a strong relationship because of Ratchet & Clank. Considering they are working with Gamestop as a publisher, means they are looking everywhere.
Crytek was on the verge of bankruptcy, so not a great example.

Bungie forced their independence cause they nedeed something new as far as I know.
When they launched Destiny they brought a lot of their fans to PS dont you agree?
Halo 5 sold well still tho not as well as Bungies ones, and not even like Destiny in Xbox One ( not sure about that to be honest, will check it out) .
Insomniac can be everywhere and thats my point they can be today with MS, tomorrow with Sony and the day after with Nintendo...
Just like Capcom ( Dead Rising) , or Platinum ( Scalebound) , or whatever, like I said we got a lot of examples.
That doesn't happen with a first party studio.
 
Big Park moved onto apps in 2012/2013, I don't think LXP ever made Kinect games, they were on Hololens

I checked Bigparks website and it's been in construction for the last year or so. I'm pretty sure LXP was originally created to make Kinect games before moving onto Hololens (though I don't understand why? Isn't Hololens not releasing to the consumer market?)

That what I KNOW.
 
What? Would have been perfect for crossplay and perfectly fair.

A cross play MOBA between controllers and PC?

165.gif


MS is gonna kill Xbox, is pretty damn obvious at this point.

^^^

E3 is going to be a serious wake up call to anyone who doesn't realise this.
 

element

Member
I checked Bigparks website and it's been in construction for the last year or so. I'm pretty sure LXP was originally created to make Kinect games before moving onto Hololens (though I don't understand why? Isn't Hololens not releasing to the consumer market?)

That what I KNOW.
There will be a consumer model of Hololens, just not yet. Looking at their twitter account, it is clear that BigPark worked on the NFL App.
 

Mobile Suit Gooch

Grundle: The Awakening
Maybe for a bit. But eventually some console alternative like the Nvidia Shield or Steam Machines or even an XBox-TV will be rubbing up against the traditional consoles. Even Sony's own PSNow can be competition for the Playstation if it is developed far enough.

Stuff doesn't have to be exactly in the same category to compete for the same dollars.

The traditional console market is changing significantly and I think all three companies are going to try and redefine what we know about what a console is and how the cycles normally work. MS is merging W10 and Xbox, Nintendo is merging their handheld and console businesses, and Sony has been experimenting with streaming tech and VR. I doubt whatever the next generation ends up being will be your typical hardware refresh.

I agree with these.
 
A cross play MOBA between controllers and PC?

165.gif




^^^

E3 is going to be a serious wake up call to anyone who doesn't realise this.

Phil on stage announcing game after game exclusive to W10 for 90 minutes and then at the close he walks off stage only to turn around and say "And one last thing . . . we are stopping production of Xbox consoles and discontinuing the brand. Welcome to the W10 future."

Is that how you see it playing out, aye?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Not when they are about to make a big push to monetise PC gaming.

Stop looking at this from the console gaming fan perspective and start looking at it from the corporate perspective. What is happening really couldn't be more clear.

If only the internet forums were as big as they are now back in the Saturn/Dreamcast days eh?
 

VinFTW

Member
This is one of the most heartbreaking things I've personally experienced in terms of losing game studios.

Man, Lionhead. LIONHEAD.

Why couldn't they just can FL and green light Fable 4?! Merge PP into LH. :/

The Fable name is still relatively big on its own and a true sequel could have sold well enough.

Fuck.

Goodluck to all those who lost their jobs. God forbid MS would keep the talent and just utilize differently...
 
Kevin has his own baggage, but his numbers are pretty spot on. Especially for a fully funded internal studio.

Games from internal first party publishers can be sustainable at quite a bit lower sales numbers than games from internal third party studios for the following reasons

1. A first party publisher doesn't lose a large part of revenue in platform royalties.

2. There will be a lot more familiarity with the hardware in a first party publisher than in a third party publisher. This makes games cheaper to make for internal studios at a first party publisher, than it is for internal studios at a third party studio.

3. Assuming that the platform holder in question sees any future at all in their platform, having a diverse line-up of games and IP, and studios to make them, becomes a goal in itself, because it makes your platform more attractive to consumers. Not all of your games need to be a smashing commercial success to provide value to your platform.

Why do you think Sony can afford to keep so many studios, even though a lot of their games are not huge moneymakers?
 
This is one of the most heartbreaking things I've personally experienced in terms of losing game studios.

Man, Lionhead. LIONHEAD.

Why couldn't they just can FL and green light Fable 4?! Merge PP into LH. :/

The Fable name is still relatively big on its own and a true sequel could have sold well enough.

Fuck.

Goodluck to all those who lost their jobs. God forbid MS would keep the talent and just utilize differently...

You do know it is a business decision?
 
Not when they are about to make a big push to monetise PC gaming.



Stop looking at this from the console gaming fan perspective and start looking at it from the corporate perspective. What is happening really couldn't be more clear.

That they closed a studio that last big game came out 6 years ago and didn't get the critical reception or sales it needed, and followed up with a game that no one wanted from its unveiling. I'd say to you stop looking at this with whatever glasses you are looking at it with.
 
Phil on stage announcing game after game exclusive to W10 for 90 minutes and then at the close he walks off stage only to turn around and say "And one last thing . . . we are stopping production of Xbox consoles and discontinuing the brand. Welcome to the W10 future."

Is that how you see it playing out, aye?

Whether or not they put the marketing emphasis on the Xbox or on PC, their development will clearly switch to PC gaming and the Xbox will become a Windows box and by virtue of being a Windows box will have "access to all these great games!" etc.

You've still got Gears and probably Sea of Thieves etc. to come so it's not like there will be nothing, but future investment in exclusive Xbox titles, particularly AAA, has probably already stopped.

The corporate management have obviously decided to go a different direction to console gaming and to reclaim PC gaming, every single piece of news out of the Xbox division lately has pointed to this.
 
Scalebound will come out. Kamiya always delivers on a finished product and plus Microsoft can't afford to take off another exclusive. They need games. If anything happens to ReCore I'm honestly willing to bet the fault will come down on Inafune than Microsoft.

Most Platinum games, outside of the licensed games(this includes MGRising), have not been 'big' sellers by any stretch of the word. Sure, Platinum games can be good/great, but quality is not the reason both Lionhead & Press Play got shuddered. Bad quality games get canned, you don't close their studios down unless you just aren't interested in pursuing those paths anymore.

And why would Inafune be the one to blame if ReCore gets cut? Sure, Mighty No.9 has had its share of issues, but Armature is developing & heading the game up - Inafune seems like he is just a consultant on the project.

Mind you - if MS is only interested in pursuing guaranteed return, big budget titles, than both Scalebound & ReCore have to be projects that give them pause to some extent. Its not like their reception has set the world on fire, particularly Scalebound.
 
So apparently 8 studios have been removed from MicrosoftStudios.com (though it may not mean anything really).

https://twitter.com/VG_Dave/status/706957781417533440


Big Park - Kinect Games

Good Science - Kinect + Hololens Games

FUNction - Hololens Games

SOTA - Hololens Games

Team Dakota - Project Spark

Lionshead - Fable

Press Play - Mobile Games

Leap Experience Pioneers - Hololens most likely, couldve been Kinect

Most of Team Dakota were transferred to other projects and/or let go, unfortunately.
 

Cynn

Member
MS is gonna kill Xbox, is pretty damn obvious at this point.
Totally. That's why they are going to make MORE consoles per generation now. Cause... That's what you totally do. I heard Mc Donald's added two new hamburgers to their menu. They are obviously getting out of the business of making hamburgers.

Yes, your arguments sound that stupid.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Whether or not they put the marketing emphasis on the Xbox or on PC, their development will clearly switch to PC gaming and the Xbox will become a Windows box and by virtue of being a Windows box will have "access to all these great games!" etc.

You've still got Gears and probably Sea of Thieves etc. to come so it's not like there will be nothing, but future investment in exclusive Xbox titles, particularly AAA, has probably already stopped.

The corporate management have obviously decided to go a different direction to console gaming and to reclaim PC gaming, every single piece of news out of the Xbox division lately has pointed to this.

Agreed. Like a Steam Machine... or this developer posted in the 'incremental upgrade' post...

I've given it some thought, and i've come up with the solution I do think MS will end up pursuing for this. This is my prediction anyway.

For starters, from my dev perspective, I just can't foresee how they go about fulfilling the promises they currently have while also maintaining it being a 'console'. Theres no way they'd garner the 3rd party support to support all of those machines, not to mention they couldn't build up a marketshare large enough to generate profit on any individual release within a reasonable timeframe, especially if this were a yearly or biannual release.

So, the solution I see is MS turning Xbox into a sort of living room PC box, a la steambox, and have it be an open-ended OS, rather than the closed OS that we currently get with the X1's version of Win10. Again, this would mean that they will have completely moved away from the traditional console platform, while still getting to sell a piece of hardware called 'Xbox' that consumers of their entertainment software could enjoy. I imagine the OS would be revised in some ways, but that it would be way more open than the current X1 OS is.

The benefit of turning your closed box console into an open-ended OS is that, you get to reap the benefits of having your machine be PC like. Depending on how they implement their new Xbox's OS, they could allow installation of non-UWP apps as well, allowing something like Steam on the box, which would really draw in some fans. You'd even be able to license Xbox to other hardware manufacturers and allow them to make their very own Xbox with different specs. At that point, its up to the user as to whether or not your machine could run any particular piece of software. This solves the development problem we have spent time discussing, as it would just run the PC version of games, which have code-bases which are targeted towards hardware manufacturers, and not specialized in the console's APU.

The success of this will depend on one thing: can MS get out of its own way to allow this to be successful? If they launch this box, but make the app-environment closed off, thus not allowing you to install Steam or Origin, and forcing you to only use the Windows Store, then the box will only ever be as supported as UWP gets (which as of right now, I don't see getting any more support than Origin does in terms of 3rd party releases). If the W10 Xbox OS is open-ended, allowing me to install most/any app I want, then not only do I have access to my Steam software library (and licenses on any other service I use), but all of it will carry forward onto any other device I use. But again, this relies on MS doing something MS has, in the past, proven incapable of doing.
 
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