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Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
How long until Apple release 4K Apple TV?
It would be sad to see Apple TV 4K gaming before Sony and Microsoft.
It would be sad to see Apple TV 4K gaming before Sony and Microsoft.
Hari Seldon
Member
Anything is better than last gen's lengthy stagnation.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Papacheeks
Banned
Who says this gen will be stag?
If anything their plan from launch was to have a shorter gen 4-6 year.
Nintendo has already said they're interested in the cell phone style upgrade model. And PCs have new releases of tech all throughout every year as Intel, AMD, and nvidia all roll out their yearly refreshes and also mid year updates.
I think people feel that Nintendo is less likely to power creep than Sony/MS with their first party stuff. But I imagine Nintendo will be hailed as an evil dictator when they decide to do such a thing, since they always get hate, deserved or not.
I think that's a dangerous route to go own because a launch of a reasonably priced console that's a big step up from the last one in to a hungry marketplace is what put Sony in the strong position it's in now. The PS4 had a huge launch and has been able to maintain the momentum well into its third year.
With PCs it comes with the added benefit you get massive longevity part for part vs an iterative console approach. Not the same.
To long, considering what's happening with graphics cards already this year and next. Face it tech is moving to fast for consoles.
Trying to compete with PC GPU releases is a recipe for disaster, consoles should never attempt this.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
I think that plan was thrown out the window when they saw how well the new consoles were selling.
They need to make up for all the money lost last gen.
Also choosing such an anemic cpu was bound to cause problems eventually.
UnwrittenZero
Member
What do you think all the remasters are for this gen? They are porting their best to be in the library going forward in this new model. I love it library is going to get so big always something to play. No more generation transitions and droughts. Can not wait for e3, I was hoping they would do this ever since that Sony executive said it would be possible in an interview way back when they prob had prototype hardware then those sneaky basterds! It will all work out the same kind of stuff happened when vr was revealed. People just don't like to change the way they do things in this hobby for some reason, to me that's strange considering this hobby revolves around tech. I hope the new machine is around $400 every time it would be nice if every 3 years we just had the best tech they can put in for that 400 price point every interation. After trade ins it won't be that much most people pay more per month on booze, drugs, and tabacco on a monthly basis then the cost of the machine. I felt like I got a good return on my launch ps4 I played it for years and it cost the same as one crazy weekend in Austin!
theDeeDubs
Member
I know I'm a sucker for new tech, but I bought all console revisions last generation. These were just cosmetic changes too. If these came with actual performance bumps too though? Sign me up.
I'd love a six year generation with a .5 bump three years in. Sounds perfect to me.
I'd love a six year generation with a .5 bump three years in. Sounds perfect to me.
Papacheeks
Banned
It's always been that way. And has yet to impact console sales.
They had a bunch of PS2 remasters last gen. I picked up several of those, and now they're the worse option for future playback vs. the PS2 originals since PS3 games are harder to emulate.
We won't know if the PS4 version of games is the right choice until we know what the PS5, or whatever the next iteration after the PS4.5 is called, does. edit: And even then, who knows past that?
Pimpbaa
Member
I said this before and I'll say it again. If developers can get their games to work on the countless different configurations on PC, then they can easily get their games to work on 2 different fixed hardware configurations. Especially if it's the same architecture just with better versions of the CPU and GPU. Even good indie developers can handle multiple configurations with little problem on PC, iOS or Android. Hell some of them can release Vita and a PS4 version of their game on the same date.
It wouldn't be a massive barrier, but it certainly adds to dev time QA process. Let's look at a multiplat. Right now it would be PC/XB1/PS4. With an iterative model, it becomes PC/XB1/XB1.5/XB2.0/PS4/PS4.5/PS5.
DarkConfidant
Member
I skeptical of 4K being necessary enough to make a new console for it.
I mean, maybe some tech enthusiasts have 4K screens, but I doubt enough normal people do.
I mean, maybe some tech enthusiasts have 4K screens, but I doubt enough normal people do.
CosmicQueso
Member
And what do you think would encourage normal people to invest in a new 4K TV? Maybe content, games, Ultra HD movies?
sometimes i game
Member
This is happening.
Sony is trying to be more cohesive, and it would help to sell 4k tvs and additional ps4 consoles.
The issue is whether it is supported or not, and fragmentation, but it's a bet they've never been scared to make before.
Sony is trying to be more cohesive, and it would help to sell 4k tvs and additional ps4 consoles.
The issue is whether it is supported or not, and fragmentation, but it's a bet they've never been scared to make before.
I disagree. The iteration console in theory should read the same game released of the base model. Shouldn't exist a dedicate releasing for it. Otherwise it's no more a deluxe model of the previous.
Yoda
Member
Most likely we will start to see variable hardware per year w/consoles. There is little benefit in forcing the hardware to stay the same across the entire generation, as long as devs provide an option for the lowest common denominator (think putting a PC game on "low" settings), then it shouldn't matter in terms of development if the same game can be played @ a better level of visual fidelity.
That's why Sony should offer an upgrade program where you pay like $20 a month and can upgrade every year when the new one comes out.
Depends also on how the sdks will be able to help devs. PC already is multiple targets in itself.
Just it depends of the ps4 sales in the next 2 years. If ps4 will continue to keep the momentum, it's illogical to release a new console.
They shouldn't release a new sdk. If their real intention it's not to substitute the ps4. Otherwise...
mcdomination
Member
There is no news. Not a single person here has any cohesive information regarding this new design/iteration/upgrade/etc... of the PS4.
If you buy a PS4 today, you won't disservice yourself in any way.
That's why I think hardware upgrades would work and would be a good thing. Maybe you mean something different or see some fear in console catching up to PCs, but that would benefit everyone even PC gamers. It wouldn't even take that many upgrades to get it there, they just need to invest in good hardware like smartphones do usually.
And I mean closer in terms of specs, even PC do not upgrade that quickly.
I didn't mean there would be a separate release for each version, just that the QA checks would need to extend to them.
If they go the iterative route, subscriptions would be a likely way to get people to buy in. It isn't something I want to see, however.
Yes but PS1/PS2 emulation (with a broader selection) should eventually be rolled into Sony's OS going forward. No telling when PS3 emulation will be feasible for a console. To be honest eventually Sony should just make PSP and Vita games playable on all the devices going forward too.
Chambers35
Neo Member
If it's a new console then that would suck big time and I won't even bother...
I don't think QA is necessary for an upgraded console. Not has many sense.
...I...don't think you quite understood what I was saying. Consoles won't be able to catch up or even get near the newest GPU thresholds unless they refresh on a yearly cycle, and Nvidia has thus far mocked console gaming at every turn since the OG Xbox. An iterative model brings with it the disadvantages PC has of having to upgrade/devs target multiple SKUs, but none of the advantages in leading power or longevity. Consoles up until now have held their own method of longevity by instilling an investment value upon consumers - buy in, and you're good until the next generation with the best this gen has to offer. An iterative model instead encourages upgrades, and on that front PC will still outpace consoles and offer far more breadth of options at that. When this happens, a lot of people will see PC as the better investment, and will either forsake console gaming or relegate it to secondary status (talking about primarily console gamers atm). I can't quantify how many that would be, of course. You can then add on the younger generations that are growing up on PC and tablets, smartphones, instead of consoles. The console market is generally aging AFAIK, and hasn't picked up the interest of young gamers like they did to us. Someone can correct me on that if I'm mistaken.
pixellated_man
Member
Since my last speculative post on what I think this ps4.5 console will be I've managed to read another 50 or so pages of this mammoth thread. A lot of interesting and grounded points of view have been put forward. Sooo here goes my revised (lol) guess at what this ps4.5 console will be.
1. It won't come out this year despite what zoetis thinks. Sony might be considering it (which makes zoetis view at least understandable) but as the Kotaku article implies, it seems they are very much at the early stages of planning and still canvassing developers for input. They surely will have people visiting sites like Neogaf to get a feel about possible customer reaction should they release this updated ps4 this early in the console lifecycle. And the takeaway would be mostly negative as this thread has made abundantly clear.
Perhaps more pertinent, releasing a new more powerful console sku (unless it's just a modest revision) at the same time as psvr will definitely cannibalise sales of psvr. Some people who are interested in both will have to choose between one or the other. Buying both of these pieces of hardware will be too expensive for most.
Releasing next year has other advantages. Sony can look at what Nx and xbox 1.5 (assuming they release this year) offer and their reception by the masses and adjust their plans accordingly.
2. The main addition to this updated ps4 will be a 4k blu ray drive and 4k output for other 4k media. The enhanced gpu mentioned by the Kotaku article will be there to render 1080p content upto 4k, including games. As some other poster mentioned 1440p scales quite nicely to 4k displays. The additional gpu grunt will be used to render games to this resolution and scaling will take care of the rest. All other graphical assets will remain the same across ps4 and ps4.5.
3. The breakout box will not be necessary for psvr use on ps4.5.
The additional processing power on the console will take care of all the tasks the breakout box performs. So why should ps4.5 users pay extra for a component that is surplus to requirements? Well, I believe the breakout box when coupled with ps4.5 will then free up enough resources from the gpu/ cpu (as it does with ps4) and give a significant boost to vr games.
This way there won't be a reason to have a breakout box less psvr bundle and doesn't peev off customers for paying for something they don't need.
4. Of course there will be full backwards compatibility with ps4 games. I don't think anybody seriously thinks there will any ps4.5 exclusives so I will not delve into this aspect. Furthermore, if the 4k capabilities of the machine works in the way that I have outlined above there will never be any need to have different disc versions of the same game.
5. Games will not necessarily be forwards compatible with ps5. I think the ps5 will be the proper generational leap with native 4k capabilities and will necessitate higher capacity discs. At that point I think Sony would rather have a clean break ànd just support the ps4.5 with early cross generational software and then gradually phase out the support.
Thanks all for reading!
1. It won't come out this year despite what zoetis thinks. Sony might be considering it (which makes zoetis view at least understandable) but as the Kotaku article implies, it seems they are very much at the early stages of planning and still canvassing developers for input. They surely will have people visiting sites like Neogaf to get a feel about possible customer reaction should they release this updated ps4 this early in the console lifecycle. And the takeaway would be mostly negative as this thread has made abundantly clear.
Perhaps more pertinent, releasing a new more powerful console sku (unless it's just a modest revision) at the same time as psvr will definitely cannibalise sales of psvr. Some people who are interested in both will have to choose between one or the other. Buying both of these pieces of hardware will be too expensive for most.
Releasing next year has other advantages. Sony can look at what Nx and xbox 1.5 (assuming they release this year) offer and their reception by the masses and adjust their plans accordingly.
2. The main addition to this updated ps4 will be a 4k blu ray drive and 4k output for other 4k media. The enhanced gpu mentioned by the Kotaku article will be there to render 1080p content upto 4k, including games. As some other poster mentioned 1440p scales quite nicely to 4k displays. The additional gpu grunt will be used to render games to this resolution and scaling will take care of the rest. All other graphical assets will remain the same across ps4 and ps4.5.
3. The breakout box will not be necessary for psvr use on ps4.5.
The additional processing power on the console will take care of all the tasks the breakout box performs. So why should ps4.5 users pay extra for a component that is surplus to requirements? Well, I believe the breakout box when coupled with ps4.5 will then free up enough resources from the gpu/ cpu (as it does with ps4) and give a significant boost to vr games.
This way there won't be a reason to have a breakout box less psvr bundle and doesn't peev off customers for paying for something they don't need.
4. Of course there will be full backwards compatibility with ps4 games. I don't think anybody seriously thinks there will any ps4.5 exclusives so I will not delve into this aspect. Furthermore, if the 4k capabilities of the machine works in the way that I have outlined above there will never be any need to have different disc versions of the same game.
5. Games will not necessarily be forwards compatible with ps5. I think the ps5 will be the proper generational leap with native 4k capabilities and will necessitate higher capacity discs. At that point I think Sony would rather have a clean break ànd just support the ps4.5 with early cross generational software and then gradually phase out the support.
Thanks all for reading!
It would be fantastic to see the entire PS1/2 catalogue on the current architecture. I hope they do it.
dcx4610
Member
The VHS analogy is a good one. I'm fine with PS4k and I'll happily upgrade if it includes 4K specs.
I knew once 4k Blu-Ray specs were announced then at the very least Sony would have a 4k Blu-Ray version of the PS4. Extra power is fine but they'll have to play it carefully and set minimum requirements.
You don't want a situation where Call of Duty runs at 30fps on the old PS4 and 60fps on PS4k. I could see a lot of backlash against Sony for that.
They aren't. Options do not screw original buyers. Options only increase sales possibilities.
There was another thread that made a similar conjecture:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1197975
It sounds extremely plausible to me.
I don't actually think that the integrated breakout box will give a performance increase, but it would be very convenient to have a single unit, and lose all that extra cabling.
Not always.
thesuperfunk
Member
My main sticking point is the fact that something with the power to run 4k isn't going to be cheap is it?
rokkerkory
Member
With great power comes great electrical bills
mitchman
Gold Member
I think journalists and people here over-estimate the power of the new GPU. Sure, it might run some 4k games, but I doubt it will run 4k with the same quality you get from 1080p now. Indie games should be quite doable in 4k, AAA titles with more advanced gfx will struggle but have a better time at 1080p.