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[crazyrabbits]

You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

If a game forces you to wade through hours of cassette tapes to understand the plot, then it's already failed by design.

I have the Collector's Edition guide sitting near my desk, and I've read its summary/breakdown of the series through several times, and I still don't understand what the fuck V was going for. It's a mess, tonally and narratively.

 

[InsaneTiger]

There's a story? I fumbled through the intro at the hospital then rescued Master Miller then stopped. Oh and Ocelot somehow became lame and boring between Snake Water and MGS.

 

[Astral Dog]

Its a joke, an unfunny joke.

 

[stuminus3]

lol, not sure if serious anymore...

What do you mean?

 

[Whompa02]

after completing it - Weak story

6 months later - Weak story

 

[Deleted member 752119]

after completing it - Weak story

6 months later - Weak story

Same. But I still mostly loved the game and spent like 80 hours on it. Other than the weak story, the mostly empty open world was disappointing. But it was a blast once you got to mission/side op areas.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

A terrible farewell to a beloved series.

That gif is just

Spoiler

 

[Ricky_R]

Indifferent. Had no issues with it, tbh.

Most memorable thing was the great gameplay that turned repetitive and tedious as all hell, sadly.

 

[muteki]

I think, knowing what I know now, that I could replay with missions in a certain order, skipping others all together, and somehow squeeze out some semblance of story...for the first half. Naturally anyone new to the game wouldn't be able to do that and I don't really have the interest to revisit any time soon. My playstyle when presented with an open world doesn't really bring out the best of pacings when it comes to story.

 

[NoFoX]

Still shit...
One of the worst (if not the) MGS, imo

 

[Palculator]

How are they different from the Codec stuff that MGS2 relied on almost entirely? At least the tapes let you keep playing the game while you enjoy your exposition dump.

Codec was contextual and in the moment. The tapes are kind of disconnected from the events that they are related to, which creates pacing difficulties. Obviously, you had bad pacing with codec too since a lot of those conversations went on for very long, but it was still characters actually reacting and talking about things as they happen. With the tapes, the loop is usually that something happens after you do a few missions, return to Mother Base, and then you get a tape you can listen to when you want. The freedom this adds is appreciated, but it makes the pacing much more loose than it was in previous entries.

I liked the tapes, mind you, but I think the codec comparison is a little off. There were a lot of codec sequences in the older games that were basically a cutscene they just didn't want to animate, and others that were kind of encyclopaedic like most of the ones you got from Nastasha Romanenko or other support characters like her. I'd say only the latter are equal to the tapes, whereas the "cutscene" codecs are more similar to the radio chatter you get during a mission in MGSV. And there are very few of those in MGSV with plenty of exposition being relegated to those tapes.

 

[Salz01]

Been replaying it. It's fucking horrible. A metal gear game only by name

 

[daveo42]

Gameplay was top notch and the shining diamond

Spoiler

dogs

resting on top of very poorly written characters and a sloppy plot meant to connect two games and two characters.

 

[Salaadin]

I can totally understand the cassette tape hate but I still think that I prefer them over the codec. At the very least, they could be tweaked to be more "in the moment" kinda like bioshock does it so that youre getting your long winded explanations at the appropriate times.

Playing mgs2 is a damn chore because you're literally stopped every couple of minutes (sometimes every couple of seconds) just to listen to talking heads. It's not a good experience at all.

 

[brau]

I hear ya. Fact of the matter is, Kojima and his peers missed the ball by a long shot. I'm not afraid of new things. MGS V was already transformed with it having an episodic narrative, the absence of David Hayter, and it's dark tone to name a few. This alone was a lot to digest. But to find out that I had more fun speculating and fantasising about what could have been, instead of the released product saddens me to no end.

On the other hand though....now that I think of it? I can't be sad about everything pre-V. I had a shit ton of fun thinking about the ultimate revenge story. Those were some fun times indeed.

Friendships were forged, speculations were made. Overall, the community coming together for this game has been some of the best experiences i've had in GAF. haha. Also, we got the trailers, which are pretty amazing.

Maybe I'm just getting hung up over words, but that's generally because debates which are centered around "I like it" or "I don't like it" ("click with", as you say) are doomed from the start. That just ends with people rationalizing their subjective experience with the game instead of approaching and discussing it in a way that relates to the people they are talking to. Something you're aware of, I'm sure, considering you have consistently pointed out people seeing something in the game doesn't mean it's good -- which I agree with only adding not seeing anything in it doesn't make it bad either. They're debates that miss the point, frankly, because critique isn't about convincing either party something is good or bad or even to enjoy it or not (not like that's actually possible but feels like people act that way.)

As for me personally, I'm still not entirely sure six months is early enough to pass proper judgement because I usually let stories percolate for longer but I've been meaning to write down my thoughts properly, just haven't had the time to do so in the depth I'd like to.

I get it.

I don't think a lot of posts aim to do this but the ones that are invested in having dialogue its always nice when it happens. But i get it. The game is totally a piece of work that is controversial, and also very thought provoking in its setup and narrative. There is a lot to say about the game and its always fun to explore what other people appreciate or didn't. if you ever do write down an in depth thought on the game i would love to see it. I have thoughts on that as well, but have no time to sit and really flesh out a piece of writing that reflects everything i have to say and think about it. Its just easier when i get to talk to people about it that i can materialize and share my impressions.

It's one of the best games I played last year. Also one of the most forgettable.

Looking forward to what Kojima works on next. I really feel like he's burned out on mgs and that, combined with Konami being shitty, lead to a lot of weird and bad decisions with this game.

I am excited for his new work as its not linked to anything else he has done previously. I do think that he had reached a fatigue when it came to MGS story, and he really wanted to do something else entirely. Him working on P.T showed me that he is still an ambitious man that can make something very interesting if you give him the opportunity.

I am glad MGS is over... at least they can't keep going downhill with it. Its a shame that it went out like that. But.. i am more excited for the potential of Kojima getting into horror. I hope. But whatever it is, i think it'll be interesting. Maybe this time i will not follow all his spoiler trailers.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

It does make sense. I don't like saying this, but you just didn't get it.

I didn't say that the fan service was from years of reflection. People LIKING the fan service is something that's definitely very recent. I don't remember anyone enjoying that stuff all that much.

Again, I said mostly in the background. MGS3 is still crazy, but no where near the level of insanity of MGS2 and MGS4. MGSV is definitely toned down compared to other MGS games, but it still feels like Metal Gear.

Yes, there is subtlety in the ending. There is obviously more to the ending than just a pat on the back by Kojima. The ending makes you look back every single game and interpret it in a new light. Everyone in Metal Gear is obsessed over a character who doesn't live up to his own legend. It makes the entire Solid Snake saga absurd. All the clones of Big Boss and the patriots domination are all sprung from a lie. The analysis posted by the TC goes into more detail of the implications from the ending.

You thinking the horn is a symbol of evil is simply your interpretation. The horn symbolism is how VENOM sees himself. After he kills all his men in the quarantine, he sees himself as a demon. That's reflected in the funeral scene where he feels like shit afterwards. WE obviously know that he did the right thing, but that's not how fake BB sees it. It's the same with the mirror scene. After he decided to follow Big Boss, he sees himself as a demon for aiding his cause. None of this implies that he is evil, it's only how the character views himself and his actions. Again, you were mislead by the games marketing, only the trailers suggest that he the demon symbolism is the character turning bad.

The only things that will live in infamy are Quiet and mission 51. Seriously, MGSV isn't some big insult to the franchise like you make it out to be. It's a fantastic game and an excellent farewell to the saga.

No, pretty sure people liked MGS4 for it's fan service nature back when it came out. Nothing about that is recent, Giantbomb's MGS4 Spoiler cast is a great summation of the things that made MGS4 amazing at the time, they clearly know a ton of the game is about fan service for longtime fans. Even at the time you can tell MGS4 is Kojima's "I'm getting too old for this kind" game. Hence his experimentation with the formula in MGS PW, GZ, and TPP.

The horn is totally evil, it's not about interpretation. It's fact. There are FAQs explaining the "Demon System." Developing Nuclear Weapons earns you tons of demon points. You physically grow a horn in game. The mirror scene is very much Venom realizing that Solid Snake is after his ass. Even if the player knows Venom does the right thing it's all shades of gray. You can't paint Venom as some kind of ultimate good guy when he is clearly corruptible. If anything this makes Big Boss look like even more of a jerk because he would do all this to a faithful ally.

It is a insult in terms of a series that is about cinematic prowess - it throws that away for rock solid game play. I may sound negative about the game, but that is mostly towards the so called story. The actual game is the best it's ever been. People will remember how much fun they had playing MGSV. Everything else is peripheral. It's not a good farewell to the series, that was MGS4. PW, GZ, and TPP where just games that try to show how Big Boss transformed into a bad guy, they succeed in that. He wasn't trying to say goodbye with those games he was trying to fill plot holes that didn't really need to be filled.

TPP isn't a bad game, it's a fantastic game, I want to be clear about that. The story, the different interpretations, the high praise, the hatred around it is all deserved. It's not this excellent farewell to the saga, it's pretty much a shell of a story that is peppered throughout an addictive open world game.

The only way people will look back at MGSV and think, oh it had a good story is if Konami tries to make another Metal Gear and fails horribly. The story bar is low thanks to TPP.

Again, you were mislead by the games marketing, only the trailers suggest that he the demon symbolism is the character turning bad.

How do you know I have been mislead by marketing? I avoided story related trailers, but watched game play. The only thing misleading about watching gameplay is I never got to use Lisa from P.T.

 

[Indelible]

Weakest story in the series, I would even put Peace Walkers story over this.

 

[RK9039]

It's still shit. This game should never have been made, or at least made as a new IP.

 

[Muffdraul]

I would have preferred a more "traditional MGS story." But the fact is that Kojima was warning us since 2011 that it was going to be less focused on story and more focused on open world game play, so it wasn't like I was surprised by it. One thing I absolutely don't care about is the Chapter 3 stuff being cut. After watching the video of it, it didn't interest me at all. If they would have done more to sell the whole Liquid/Mantis kids thing during the game, maybe I would have cared more. But they didn't harp on that aspect so it's no big deal to me.

Bottom line is that the game play is so incredibly sublime, I couldn't give less of a crap about the sub-par story.

 

[GreySquirrel]

I only finished it a few months ago, playing it blind from release. I purposely avoided all trailers so no big moments were spoiled for me but the issue was with how spaced out they felt. Also, lack of boss battles. I don't really count the skulls as boss battles, just harder regular enemies. I want batshit crazy people monologueing as they die.

Apart from that I generally enjoyed what they were going for. Got genuine goosebumps when Big Boss said something along the lines of "I am you, and you are me." at the end.

 

[brau]

No, pretty sure people liked MGS4 for it's fan service nature back when it came out. Nothing about that is recent, Giantbomb's MGS4 Spoiler cast is a great summation of the things that made MGS4 amazing at the time, they clearly know a ton of the game is about fan service for longtime fans. Even at the time you can tell MGS4 is Kojima's "I'm getting too old for this kind" game. Hence his experimentation with the formula in MGS PW, GZ, and TPP.

The horn is totally evil, it's not about interpretation. It's fact. There are FAQs explaining the "Demon System." Developing Nuclear Weapons earns you tons of demon points. You physically grow a horn in game. The mirror scene is very much Venom realizing that Solid Snake is after his ass. Even if the player knows Venom does the right thing it's all shades of gray. You can't paint Venom as some kind of ultimate good guy when he is clearly corruptible. If anything this makes Big Boss look like even more of a jerk because he would do all this to a faithful ally.

It is a insult in terms of a series that is about cinematic prowess - it throws that away for rock solid game play. I may sound negative about the game, but that is mostly towards the so called story. The actual game is the best it's ever been. People will remember how much fun they had playing MGSV. Everything else is peripheral. It's not a good farewell to the series, that was MGS4. PW, GZ, and TPP where just games that try to show how Big Boss transformed into a bad guy, they succeed in that. He wasn't trying to say goodbye with those games he was trying to fill plot holes that didn't really need to be filled.

TPP isn't a bad game, it's a fantastic game, I want to be clear about that. The story, the different interpretations, the high praise, the hatred around it is all deserved. It's not this excellent farewell to the saga, it's pretty much a shell of a story that is peppered throughout an addictive open world game.

The only way people will look back at MGSV and think, oh it had a good story is if Konami tries to make another Metal Gear and fails horribly. The story bar is low thanks to TPP.



How do you know I have been mislead by marketing? I avoided story related trailers, but watched game play. The only thing misleading about watching gameplay is I never got to use Lisa from P.T.

I like you. We should be friends.

You mention a lot of key points that are really important.

The game is an achievement. We probably won't know the extent of the working circumstances at Konami and for Kojima and how much it affected the development. The fact of the matter is that we can only perceive and interpret on what we got. The story was low tier. Kudos to Kojima for trying something new, but just because of that it doesn't inherently make it better.

Not only that.. but again.. another circumstance where one has to reply to the comment about "you don't get it". I am happy to see that you backed up why it doesn't work.

Good post.

 

[Riposte]

There's part of me that thinks the Truth ending is about Venom seeing what he can / is suppose to become and possibly rejecting it along with Big Boss when he shattered the mirror, creating a new history for MGS. Obviously doesn't fit perfectly, but he did quote Nietzsche in that weird way which seems to say all bets are off.

 

[Chinner]

You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

nice words, no real argument though.

 

[Springfoot]

You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

Ugh, this reads like something straight out of Reddit's Im14AndThisIsDeep.

"These days people don't appreciate artistic mastery, everything was better in times long past, the pop culture of yesteryear was so much better than the pop culture of today, everything in the world has turned to shit and only I and those who agree with me understand true art. More generalizations about 'society' here and half baked notions about 'society' there, blah blah blah. If you don't like it, you just don't get it, and I'll condescendingly pretend your supposed lack of understanding makes me sad and weary, like some kind of faux disappointed parent."

This is gold.

 

[Servbot24]

What story?

There is hours upon hours of it, did you play the game?

 

[Shy]

I don't patronising you at all, I'm just saying that MGS series is a geek series that always used reference from other medias because Kojima is a huge geek as well, the mainstream audience are missing things because they don't have that "Geek Culture"... Nothing wrong with this, I'm not saying you're wrong for not liking the game or whatever but I'm saying there is no facts to it, just interpretation...

The "mainstream" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) isn't missing anything with kojima's references, because they're all superficial and are rammed down the audiences throat.

, I'm not saying you're wrong for not liking the game or whatever but I'm saying there is no facts to it, just interpretation...

By that rational there's no such thing as a poor or good storytelling then. which is just a completely asinine thing to say.

You're right about V not being like MGS2 but I think they're closer in mind set,

Based on what.

Haters gonna hate. Not everyone should love it, but it seems from most of the comments in this thread that most people don't understand what the game is all about.

Oh really. ?

Please tell me how i don't understand what this game is about.

You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

You really are completely condescending, aren't you.

Not only are you STILL saying people "don't get it" but now you're saying they're just vomiting up other people's opinions like a bunch of mindless dead eyed sheep.

 

[brau]

sheep.

TL;Only Read Sheep

Spoiler

Hi Shy!

 

[Shy]

TL;Only Read Sheep

Spoiler

Hi Shy!

LOL.

Spoiler

Hi Brau. missed ya.

 

[SeppOCE]

If anything, it made me hate Big Boss. He was nothing more than a coward who stole a legacy.

Venom was great. I loved him and he got such a shit end of the deal. Would have liked to see more of him.

You were never really supposed to like Big Boss outside of MGS3 and Peacewalker honestly. He comes off as a mega douche in MG 1, 2 and MGS. MGS 4 he still kinda seems like a douche but someone who's oddly at peace at the same time.

I liked what the story was trying to do and it did come full circle in a way. We were able to go from hating Big Boss to understanding Big Boss to seeing Big Boss become the guy we hate and I guess it elaborated on how Big Boss came "back to life" so easily in MG2 but it's not like Kojima planned that so it's more of a retcon.

Gameplay wise it was the best third person shooter I've ever played.

 

[Piers]

Glad I only bought Ground Zeroes.

 

[Batzi]

Loved it 6 months ago and love it more 6 months later. Most likely will love it even more the more I watch theorists analyzing the story.

 

[10k]

What story?

unfinished

Yeah. I'll add apathy. The way it was presented and broken up made me not really care for the story. I stayed for the gameplay loop. Act 2 was a crime on humanity after giving us Act 1.

 

[Zaki2407]

The weakest story of the series.
The best gameplay of the series.

 

[KOMANI]

Sooooo.... This has been going on for quite awhile... People that like the game insist those that didn't, just didn't "get" it. That's extremely condescending . That would be the equivalent to someone who doesn't like the game telling someone who does that they don't know what a good story is if it bit them in the arse.

Chillax

 

[zkorejo]

Apart from the few good moments. It was average at best.

The only thing that lacked was the storytelling in this game.

 

[Toxi]

Sooooo.... This has been going on for quite awhile... People that like the game insist those that didn't, just didn't "get" it. That's extremely condescending . That would be the equivalent to someone who doesn't like the game telling someone who does that they don't know what a good story is if it bit them in the arse.

Chillax

To be fair, that has been the default response of MGS2 fans for years.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Yeah, six months on it's still a quivering shart on the legacy of the series and its creator.

 

[KOMANI]

To be fair, that has been the default response of MGS2 fans for years.

What? That people didn't get it?
Let's be honest, the majority of people disliked MGS2 because we didn't get to play as Snake the whole game. They were blinded by that.
I've only recently seen a small group of people who dislike MGSV because you don't play as Big Boss.
And that excuse doesn't work here, because MGS2 was the lube that helped us get ready for the fiddle that was MGSV. Because of MGS2, no one ever believes Kojima. He's the boy that cried wolf. (MGS4 pun intended)

 

[Soriku]

It's still shit. This game should never have been made, or at least made as a new IP.

Seriously? The game is a ton of fun, I'm glad it was made.

 

[Chinner]

To be fair, that has been the default response of MGS2 fans for years.

MGS2 has real arguments and proven structures to it. The same can't be said for MGSV.

 

[Palculator]

Let's be honest, the majority of people disliked MGS2 because we didn't get to play as Snake the whole game.

Not really, people moan about the nonsense plot, how annoying Rose is, how lame Raiden is (not just not playing as Snake but playing as this dweeb), how it's a Shadow Moses repeat, etc. all the time. The bait and switch including the false trailers is huge, don't get me wrong, but the game does a lot more things to piss all over people's cornflakes.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Far from perfect but I liked it. ¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[ghostjoke]

Not really, people moan about the nonsense plot, how annoying Rose is, how lame Raiden is (not just not playing as Snake but playing as this dweeb), how it's a Shadow Moses repeat, etc. all the time. The bait and switch including the false trailers is huge, don't get me wrong, but the game does a lot more things to piss all over people's cornflakes.

That's kind of the point. The bait and switch was just the beginning.

 

[SentryDown]

As a newcomer to the series (I only played Ground Zeroes), I felt very excluded, that's all I can say.

 

[Espada]

Same. But I still mostly loved the game and spent like 80 hours on it. Other than the weak story, the mostly empty open world was disappointing. But it was a blast once you got to mission/side op areas.

The game would've been a LOT better if it had the old setup with the new gameplay. It did not benefit from the open world setup, it just suffered from all the problems that plague open world titles.

But to answer the OP? Weak story. MGS went out on a whimper, and it makes me think Kojima ran out of steam after MGS3.

 

[Shambalakan]

Worst story in MGS series with an unfinished ending. garbage characters, garbage reasons, garbage storytelling (cassettes) and ...

 

[AusRoachman]

On reflection it's not completely terrible but the game presentation is terrible . The filler missions , not really knowing what order you should do missions , the stupid resource collection / requirements which konami just kept making worse , the unfinished mission that's just concept art and storyboards .

It all makes it far more confusing then it needed to be . It's a shame because the gameplay is sublime , it's just the overall presentation which screws It all up.

I was never a huge mgs fan so I'm glad we don't have long winded cutscenes (that jeep ride with skull face was bad enough) , but at least put some more voice acting in. So many moments where someone is talking to you and he just stands there silently , feels so jarring .

 

[Two Words]

I feel like a damn fiddle that's been played.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

RE: MGS2

It was a blatant bait and switch no one was expecting.

It also served the narrative to be a different character.

There's lots of subtext and philosophy that, even if heavy handed, resulted in these amazing twists.

MGSV does none of this, it was presented as the story of "Snake" falling into "evil".... except it doesn't and we had all guessed something was "off" early on. The great bait and switch is that anyone can be Big Boss.... which is completely at odds with every other game in the series where you exist as an observer, not as a participant, to the plot. It's odd. It's jarring.

But I honestly believe a lot of the plot is missing.

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

I totally agree with you.

And for those that says that it doesn't close the story: What else do you want? It explains why Big Boss die so many times, the only barely missing thing is what he did in Zanzibar, but there is no truly need for that.