TL & Mazre in terms of wanting more information
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Batman [Mafia] |OT| The mafia game Gafia deserves , but not the one it needs
- Thread starter roytheone
- Start date
Uh huh. Stop posting already. You're completely off the deep end.
You realize bolding half of a post doesn't make the rest of the post unreadable right? I can do that too:
I thought there was too much WIFOM there where any side of that argument could be right. That's not dismissing the argument, that's me giving an opinion to help reads. If you want to see me dismiss an argument, whisper about scum mayors in my ear.
OK, to answer Launch's question from earlier, this is when Kark claimed that the Batcomputer was not a read list:
I'm sure he'll get into semantics about this, but the fact is that he said that this Batcomputer stuff was objective and separate from his own personal thoughts, when it's become evident that it was not.
Both are still applicable. I was trying to get lynched, but since that clearly wasn't happening organically near the end of the day I was going to just save it and hope I didn't get killed. The last-minute scramble to Flux made me reconsider.
I'm sure he'll get into semantics about this, but the fact is that he said that this Batcomputer stuff was objective and separate from his own personal thoughts, when it's become evident that it was not.
Both are still applicable. I was trying to get lynched, but since that clearly wasn't happening organically near the end of the day I was going to just save it and hope I didn't get killed. The last-minute scramble to Flux made me reconsider.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
This is a typical Kark thing to do. Throw some shit out there, draw attention to himself, but he never actually said anything.
You started an argument with me over a stupid semantic thing that you were seemingly playing dumb about.
I'm really not sure what you would consider to be "dismissing the argument", because your post count (you're now 2x as many as anybody else) indicates you can't ever let go.
Let me step aside of this game and tell you something, Sorian - and this is something I need to get off my chest. Your tactic in mafia games is to bother people until they relent, and it's a waste of everyone's time. Even now, we've beset useful game discussion to argue about you.
I understand if you're enthusiastic. I understand if mafia is a vanity game for you. I understand if you need to control the discussion to win the game. But in this game, and especially right now, you're arguing for argument's sake.
I'm ready to drop this discussion with you, simply because it's helping nobody. We've arrived at the point where we have disintegrated any semblance of this being a mafia game. It's me providing a rational statement, and you finding any manner of thought to refute it. You're here to win an argument, and that's not fun or interesting, or moving the game forward. I'm here to play (and win) a game.
The next time you say something of substance, I'll engage with you again. Until then, I do believe my vote is worth having on you.
weemadarthur
Member
Vote: Mazre
The quote text was wrapped wrong so that main things I want to answer isn't actually in here:
"Including small "maybes" doesn't mean you weren't trying to shut the line of reasoning down."
Look, you tried to say I dismissed something you said, you did this in an attempt to hurt my current standing, obviously I am going to come back and point out why this is non-sense, especially because I think you might be scum and are doing this purposely. If disagreeing all the time is dismissing then sure, I'm sorry but not everyone is going to agree on what is a good strategy and what isn't. I thought there wasn't much to see with what you are pointing out, that doesn't change that you could be right and I could be wrong in that case.
As for the rest, I don't know if you are talking specifically about this dismiss thing or the Camjo mayor issue at large, if it's the first then sure, I don't really care, if it's the second then sorry but your rational statement wasn't there, take that how you will.
Moving on then.
Damn you guys. I see some heavy blows have been thrown today.
I really don't know how to interpret this whole situation you've devoted most of the day to. Sorian's assumption that both Topo and Camjo are telling the truth regarding their role is something I can agree with. Occam's Razor and all that, although I admit that Oracle PR would be super easy to fake - if the scum team had been given Oracle as a fake role that's a pretty fitting power they could come up with to earn some trust easily without it being verifiable in any way.
About Camjo, I'm not worried about his identity right now per the above, but I said it day 1: I don't like neutrals. If there's any chance they may screw us over, I want to avoid it at all costs. I don't think we're in a position to lynch a townie-who-might-eventually-become-neutral, but no doubt he'll be on my sights.
I doubt either Sorian or Kark are scum. Kark in particular plays in an uncomfortable way, but I think his plays always yield some value. I'm not sure why people continue arguing the batcomputer stuff, do they need it spelled out that it was a tool to fish for reactions? We're way past the point it matters, and anyone that continues bringing it up makes themselves look silly if not intentionally distracting. Do you guys want to fish a batman claim out of Kark or something? At the very least he's abandoned some of his obscure posting and been very direct these last couple of pages, so there's that.
I don't know about Launch. He was the first to point at Camjo, which I find curious because of my own views regarding his role, it's usually me who has to convince others to lynch a potential neutral. He seemed to defend Kark, despite saying he didn't know what the batcomputer stuff was all about. I don't really buy him not knowing about it. Sorian siding with Camjo seems a bit different because, as Kark said, I don't think Sorian was defending Camjo as much as he wanted to prove a point about game balance and was really adamant about it; Launch described it as trying to divert attention, but it seems to me like it became a vanity thing, borrowing Kark's words again. At some point I believe the discussion really stopped being about Camjo and that's where things went off track.
Onto other feelings: I feel like Xam is too easy a target. He hasn't said much after he pretty much said he was willing to stand in the sideline watching the rest of us pressure Karu. It made Karu look good until he said something similar about what Sorian and Kark were going on about. At least he's posted since I suppose, Xam on the other has become basically a non-entity.
Mazre, Pop and TL are easy candidates right now because of inactivity but not much else. I'm specially disappointed of Mazre, having claimed yesterday I would've expect some follow up today in the form of initiative to make up for his useless self-imposed immunity, but instead we've got nothing.
Weemad, we need you here. I think you're good at asking questions, but following the wrong trail. The batcomputer stuff is going nowhere; there's a ton of relatively inactive people to poke instead. You're my highest town read so demonstrate to me you can come up with original thoughts now that we've hit a wall. Feel free to continue questioning the batcomputer stuff, but Kark's obviously not willing to say much more about it.
Top scum:
Xam
Mazre
Maaaaybe Ty4on. He's been active today but it's like he's only trying to make his presence known, fanning the flames, rather than really participating. He also said he thought a no-lynch would've been preferable over Flame getting killed, which is a weird statement to make. Also Ty4on, what was this about?
If it was related to the discussion, please explain how. Maybe I didn't really grasp its meaning in the context of the conversation as I was reading to catch up.
Roy, could you update the player list in the OP to reflect dead people pls?
I really don't know how to interpret this whole situation you've devoted most of the day to. Sorian's assumption that both Topo and Camjo are telling the truth regarding their role is something I can agree with. Occam's Razor and all that, although I admit that Oracle PR would be super easy to fake - if the scum team had been given Oracle as a fake role that's a pretty fitting power they could come up with to earn some trust easily without it being verifiable in any way.
About Camjo, I'm not worried about his identity right now per the above, but I said it day 1: I don't like neutrals. If there's any chance they may screw us over, I want to avoid it at all costs. I don't think we're in a position to lynch a townie-who-might-eventually-become-neutral, but no doubt he'll be on my sights.
I doubt either Sorian or Kark are scum. Kark in particular plays in an uncomfortable way, but I think his plays always yield some value. I'm not sure why people continue arguing the batcomputer stuff, do they need it spelled out that it was a tool to fish for reactions? We're way past the point it matters, and anyone that continues bringing it up makes themselves look silly if not intentionally distracting. Do you guys want to fish a batman claim out of Kark or something? At the very least he's abandoned some of his obscure posting and been very direct these last couple of pages, so there's that.
I don't know about Launch. He was the first to point at Camjo, which I find curious because of my own views regarding his role, it's usually me who has to convince others to lynch a potential neutral. He seemed to defend Kark, despite saying he didn't know what the batcomputer stuff was all about. I don't really buy him not knowing about it. Sorian siding with Camjo seems a bit different because, as Kark said, I don't think Sorian was defending Camjo as much as he wanted to prove a point about game balance and was really adamant about it; Launch described it as trying to divert attention, but it seems to me like it became a vanity thing, borrowing Kark's words again. At some point I believe the discussion really stopped being about Camjo and that's where things went off track.
Onto other feelings: I feel like Xam is too easy a target. He hasn't said much after he pretty much said he was willing to stand in the sideline watching the rest of us pressure Karu. It made Karu look good until he said something similar about what Sorian and Kark were going on about. At least he's posted since I suppose, Xam on the other has become basically a non-entity.
Mazre, Pop and TL are easy candidates right now because of inactivity but not much else. I'm specially disappointed of Mazre, having claimed yesterday I would've expect some follow up today in the form of initiative to make up for his useless self-imposed immunity, but instead we've got nothing.
Weemad, we need you here. I think you're good at asking questions, but following the wrong trail. The batcomputer stuff is going nowhere; there's a ton of relatively inactive people to poke instead. You're my highest town read so demonstrate to me you can come up with original thoughts now that we've hit a wall. Feel free to continue questioning the batcomputer stuff, but Kark's obviously not willing to say much more about it.
Top scum:
Xam
Mazre
Maaaaybe Ty4on. He's been active today but it's like he's only trying to make his presence known, fanning the flames, rather than really participating. He also said he thought a no-lynch would've been preferable over Flame getting killed, which is a weird statement to make. Also Ty4on, what was this about?
If it was related to the discussion, please explain how. Maybe I didn't really grasp its meaning in the context of the conversation as I was reading to catch up.
Roy, could you update the player list in the OP to reflect dead people pls?
I just want to remind everyone in here to keep discussion civil; we don't need any personal attacks. Mafia can get a bit heated, and it's to be expected, but it's still just a game. Personalities do clash from time to time, and, let's face it, both Kark and Sorian have pretty strong personalities when it comes to Mafia.
So I don't care if you keep arguing - hell, that's half of this game - but keep it restricted to information that can be gleaned from this game and whatever basic meta-knowledge you want to inject. Leave your personal attacks at the door.
So I don't care if you keep arguing - hell, that's half of this game - but keep it restricted to information that can be gleaned from this game and whatever basic meta-knowledge you want to inject. Leave your personal attacks at the door.
Xamtheking
Member
Thank god Blarg isn't in this game
I don't think the thread could handle it
I don't think the thread could handle it
weemadarthur
Member
I'm here voting for Mazre.
I'm sure glad you think I'm town, that worked out great for skyodin. XD
I was willing to cut Xam some slack on Day One. Xam, why aren't you participating yourself? Give me a decent reads list and not that null crap.
Karkador, your reads list yesterday had a bunch of question marks instead of 'stars'. How are you feeling about those people now?
Pop, since this is a shorter game, should we policy lynch you rather than waiting for you to put us off again in the last 24 hours of the day phase?
TL, looks like you've given us...like 2 bits of original thought. Got any more?
I'm sure glad you think I'm town, that worked out great for skyodin. XD
I was willing to cut Xam some slack on Day One. Xam, why aren't you participating yourself? Give me a decent reads list and not that null crap.
Karkador, your reads list yesterday had a bunch of question marks instead of 'stars'. How are you feeling about those people now?
Pop, since this is a shorter game, should we policy lynch you rather than waiting for you to put us off again in the last 24 hours of the day phase?
TL, looks like you've given us...like 2 bits of original thought. Got any more?
Poking fun at the batcomputer and writing Camjo's name in italics because I thought he could be neutral.
I didn't like how the discussion was "he's town/scum" when neutral is looking more and more likely to me. Camjo is almost hinting at it in his last posts saying stuff like how he isn't a neutral "yet".
Launch pointed that out too, Camjo says it's because he was referring to the example that Launch gave, that's the way I took it too. I'm also ignoring the neutral for now purposely because I'm really not interested in a possible town turned neutral scenario on day 2. It's unlikely and if we really have to worry about it Camjo is still out there in the open.
At what point does a wacky Kark gambit become something he can actually be held accountable for? So far his accomplishments have been wasting time fakeclaiming Batman and a batcomputer ability, attempting to tie the vote at deadline, and spending most of today trying to convince everybody that someone with the power to override a vote is actually mafia that chose to waste an amazingly good scum ability on a generic townie Day 1 to save a suicidal FluxWaveZ. If he's town, I'm genuinely curious as to how he thinks any of this will help out in the long run.
I would think once we hit gambit 3 but apparently not.
How does it not bode well for town? We literally know nothing about neutrals in this game.
weemadarthur
Member
You're basing this entire argument on something he may have lied about.
We have proof of mayorship. Everything about his actual role flavor is unprovable unless you have a power to read them, etc etc.
Please come up with something relevant to now.
I'd be careful to say "proof of mayorship", but anyhow, we all went down this road because I simply wanted to ask questions about why he used this power (whatever it may be) the way it is. No matter what the power is, the use of the power doesnt' really fall in line with what a prudent Town player would do.
weemadarthur
Member
What new subject would you like to discuss?
weemadarthur
Member
Then answer my question
Karkador, your reads list yesterday had a bunch of question marks instead of 'stars'. How are you feeling about those people now?
A neutral is more likely to assist town in the early portions of a game and more likely to assist scum in the late portions of the game. And that's not even taking into account if their win condition is something like "kill the joker" but oh, it might be "kill batman" so who knows.
Why? Is there literally any way that his override was a lie? Yes, I'm harping on the same thing because it still amazes me how dense you can be on this. Somehow, you are trying to spin that this may not have been an override power.
No; the override working is clear. I'm not contesting that. The role and the alignment it's attached to is what's not clear, nor the intent of it.
Vote: Mazre
Where do you stand on any of the latest happenings? Do you think Camjo is town/neutral? Top scum and top town?
I'm more concerned about all of this honestly. You're making a good case for a Kark lynch.
Where do you stand on any of the latest happenings? Do you think Camjo is town/neutral? Top scum and top town?
I'm more concerned about all of this honestly. You're making a good case for a Kark lynch.
weemadarthur
Member
I'll hold my breath until your return
Well my head hurts sufficiently enough. Kark is someone who I could vote for but letting my vote sit here for two days doesn't do much, he stays engaged and he'll answer me if I come yelling so the vote being there right now means fuck all. Coppa poked in at some point and Karu at least answered my one question and I sadly don't have any more because his lowkey play style and to the point answers leave very little followup material. Trigger just came in and voted for Mazre then subtly put in a rumble that he could be convinced to go for Kark instead which was so off hand that I could take it as scum doing something (could be a post that he points back to saying "hah, I knew it!" if Kark flipped scum or "I didn't bandwagon, I was planning to vote for Kark" if he needs to hop aboard a train at day end to a mislynch).
Those are all at least things which, honestly, at this point I just want discussion out in the open so I'm going to vote TL21xx
VOTE: TL21xx
TL, your last post is a vote for Kark and asking for him to talk about something other than the Camjo situation. Do you think he is scum or is this a pressure vote?
In other news of hoping to revitalize things a bit, I think now is an appropriate time for everyone to give a top town and top scum listing (two preferred but anything to help with reads at this point would be a boon). For this exercise, I'd prefer if you just ignore Camjo all together. At this point, I think the line has been drawn in the sand there, I want to know thoughts on other people so as to run things around the thread
------- POST INTERRUPTION --------
I'm changing my vote within this very thread but still leaving the other vote up there to draw TL21's attention. I'd rather do this though
VOTE: Ty4on
My attempt above was to hit up all of the inactives (aside from Pop who is taking holiday from the game apparently) and I forgot you existed. I looked at your posts and everything today has had to do with Camjo. What are your other thoughts?
------- POST INTERRUPTION OVER -------
So yeah, top town and scum, I'll start
My top town is the same two as yesterday. Weemad and Fire have still been more of the same today. I would write more but it would be the exact same as yesterday, they've been genuine on scum hunting, they make their presence known without any pressure, and they are both keeping focus on checking other avenues.
Top scum, Karu. With what I said earlier today. He is very quick to defend himself and speak when spoken to but not much more. A lot of my complaints on Flux are present here as well but with the added layer of inactivity all around. I think there was something more to his comment from yesterday about the two scum kills only because his answers still seem off to me and he is perfectly fine taking backseat when nothing is going on.
Kark is up there now. Launch and Fire can say until they are blue in the face that Kark will be Kark but there is a difference between gambiting and seeing who will react and just straight up hindering progress. I think we've moved towards the second though I'll at least say that this back and forth that I've been forcing has at least forced him to become a bit of a straight man which is helping with reads.
Putting Xam up here as well. He's been extremely quiet and that odd behavior from yesterday is just magnifying itself even more. I would ahve expected him to be out and about in this cross fire that happened today but I'm not even sure if he posted at all during it. He's acting far far too reserved for how Xam should be. Something is up.
Those are all at least things which, honestly, at this point I just want discussion out in the open so I'm going to vote TL21xx
VOTE: TL21xx
TL, your last post is a vote for Kark and asking for him to talk about something other than the Camjo situation. Do you think he is scum or is this a pressure vote?
In other news of hoping to revitalize things a bit, I think now is an appropriate time for everyone to give a top town and top scum listing (two preferred but anything to help with reads at this point would be a boon). For this exercise, I'd prefer if you just ignore Camjo all together. At this point, I think the line has been drawn in the sand there, I want to know thoughts on other people so as to run things around the thread
------- POST INTERRUPTION --------
I'm changing my vote within this very thread but still leaving the other vote up there to draw TL21's attention. I'd rather do this though
VOTE: Ty4on
My attempt above was to hit up all of the inactives (aside from Pop who is taking holiday from the game apparently) and I forgot you existed. I looked at your posts and everything today has had to do with Camjo. What are your other thoughts?
------- POST INTERRUPTION OVER -------
So yeah, top town and scum, I'll start
My top town is the same two as yesterday. Weemad and Fire have still been more of the same today. I would write more but it would be the exact same as yesterday, they've been genuine on scum hunting, they make their presence known without any pressure, and they are both keeping focus on checking other avenues.
Top scum, Karu. With what I said earlier today. He is very quick to defend himself and speak when spoken to but not much more. A lot of my complaints on Flux are present here as well but with the added layer of inactivity all around. I think there was something more to his comment from yesterday about the two scum kills only because his answers still seem off to me and he is perfectly fine taking backseat when nothing is going on.
Kark is up there now. Launch and Fire can say until they are blue in the face that Kark will be Kark but there is a difference between gambiting and seeing who will react and just straight up hindering progress. I think we've moved towards the second though I'll at least say that this back and forth that I've been forcing has at least forced him to become a bit of a straight man which is helping with reads.
Putting Xam up here as well. He's been extremely quiet and that odd behavior from yesterday is just magnifying itself even more. I would ahve expected him to be out and about in this cross fire that happened today but I'm not even sure if he posted at all during it. He's acting far far too reserved for how Xam should be. Something is up.
Xamtheking
Member
I'm quiet because I am thinking
And I don't feel I have much to contribute to the thread right now other than top town/scum
So
Top Town:
Sorian - It's fairly easy to tell when you're town, you have been doing towny things like pushing people
Fireblend - More of the same, you two seem town
Top Scum:
Weemad - Dunno why, but they send off red flags for me. Current theory is they are being carried by a very smart scum member, will look into
Mazre - Because of what I interpreted as a copy/paste roleclaim on d1, primarily. Is it not a good enough reason? Maybe, but for right now, it's all I've got
Top Neutral:
Camjo-Z - If camjo was scum, he probably would have overrided one of our more active players, and flame dying instead makes me think he's all alone in whatever the fuck this is
And I don't feel I have much to contribute to the thread right now other than top town/scum
So
Top Town:
Sorian - It's fairly easy to tell when you're town, you have been doing towny things like pushing people
Fireblend - More of the same, you two seem town
Top Scum:
Weemad - Dunno why, but they send off red flags for me. Current theory is they are being carried by a very smart scum member, will look into
Mazre - Because of what I interpreted as a copy/paste roleclaim on d1, primarily. Is it not a good enough reason? Maybe, but for right now, it's all I've got
Top Neutral:
Camjo-Z - If camjo was scum, he probably would have overrided one of our more active players, and flame dying instead makes me think he's all alone in whatever the fuck this is
weemadarthur
Member
Interesting.
Who in this game would be a good enough scum player to be behind me, if this theory of yours turned out true?
Xamtheking
Member
My two "suspects" would have to be Pop-o-matic and Coppanuva, who have both been midseason scum before and did relatively well at making themselves appear as town (bias towards Pop because he won FF for us, though)
I am not making any accusations, just spitballing thoughts from my twisted shell of a brain
weemadarthur
Member
I'm not offended. Make a case for connection/coordination, any scummy behavior, etc.
Everyone needs a watcher. [That latin phrase]
I want to have it on record that I notice how much I'm agreeing with Sorian. Suggesting everyone list their top scum, voting for Ty4on after I suggested he seemed suspicious, him having a good impression of me... the only thing we seem to disagree on is in how to handle a neutral and Kark's towniness. It's curious and I don't want to be too comfortable with Sorian's statements sometimes echoing mine even if it's to be expected a little.
This is a really good point, but then again I didn't give any credence to the idea that you were scum to begin with - you're arguing with the wrong person for that. If you're neutral you know what I think about that though. And to answer your question, at this stage in the game I believe an active player that rocks the boat is someone that's not only likely to be town but also that I want to keep in the early game. Kark's really good at that. He'll become accountable when his actions reveal any anti-town intent. What I bolded hints at that, but I think it's a reductive description of what he did today. I'm keeping an eye on him though, like all of us should. If Kark had tied yesterday, do you think he'd be able to sell us that he was town today? No point answering that since if he's scum I guess you bailed him out on that one.
Going to sleep.
This is a really good point, but then again I didn't give any credence to the idea that you were scum to begin with - you're arguing with the wrong person for that. If you're neutral you know what I think about that though. And to answer your question, at this stage in the game I believe an active player that rocks the boat is someone that's not only likely to be town but also that I want to keep in the early game. Kark's really good at that. He'll become accountable when his actions reveal any anti-town intent. What I bolded hints at that, but I think it's a reductive description of what he did today. I'm keeping an eye on him though, like all of us should. If Kark had tied yesterday, do you think he'd be able to sell us that he was town today? No point answering that since if he's scum I guess you bailed him out on that one.
Going to sleep.
It's a bit of both, but primarily pressure. His lack of discussion outside of that is giving me a scum vibe, so I do want to hear more from him.
Top town for me are Sorian, Fireblend, and El Topo. Sorian and Fireblend for their play, and Topo due to the Oracle claim.
Camjo is obviously either a neutral at some point or scum. Either way, I want to wait on him.
Top scum for me are Kark and Mazre. I also have soft scum reads from Launch and Xam. I'm on mobile right now, so I will try to get to a keyboard to elaborate on them, but in addition to Xam's silence and relatively low key read list, Launch's posts during Sorian and Kark's slap fight gave me an odd vibe. That could well be my general dislike of how much time was spent dissecting Camjo's claim, so I am not as confident on Launch's alignment.
Xamtheking
Member
Going over some of the batcomputer posts, I am starting to come with a possible theory of Kark being scum. I believe the batcomputer might have been used as a distraction, as well as Kark's don't-switch-your-vote pact. However, take that with a grain of salt as I really don't like Carkeydoor by this point so this might be a byproduct of my general dislike.
FluxWaveZ [m]
The suicide/"I'm scum" thing is frustrating, and the player replacement is a tad disconcerting, if only because we need to put this player's interrogation on pause. As soon as their replacement catches up, we need to take it from the top with them. Perhaps a different player's perspective can shed some light on what's going on here. If Camjo is not mafia, Flux's near-turboing is a promising sign of Town. Unfortunately, this is still a ?/5 Town stars, though.
Pop-o-matic [m]
Feeling a bit better about this player. They still make their digs about what I'm doing, but I kinda see now where they're coming from, and I think they're making proper observations. Still not terribly active, but so it goes. 4/5 Town stars.
Trigger [m]
Hmm. I got the feeling he was scum from some of the D1 reactions, but humoring me on the Batcomputer stuff - enough to say "let's lynch topo to find out about the batcomputer", initially gives me a Town vibe. The behavior on D2 has been better. I'll say...3/5 Town stars.
Xamtheking
They've really disappeared since D1, and I'm not sure why. I still think it's too early to call this one, sorry. ?/5 Town stars.
SkyOdin [m]
The Batcomputer was wrong - more importantly, I was wrong in my non-Batcomputer assessment of the player. I suspect that, as the only player who went in hard on them, scum may have targeted him to make me look bad. Otherwise, I didn't see anything about his D1 plays that telegraphed he was a PR. Maybe scum just got lucky here. RIP.
LaunchPadMcQ (formerly TheGoddam)[m]
Launch has stepped it up since taking over for TheGoddam. I'm not entirely sold on the Serial Killer idea, but it's possible that there's something odd and twisted going on with a neutral in this game - something that wouldn't really fit the mold of a typical SK. But anyhow, he's been seemingly on-and-off supportive of me, which is fine. I like rational Launch. However, this hint at me that he has something up his sleeve for the later part of this Day phase is a cause for concern. I don't want to prematurely support someone who might do something crazy. Then again, I'm Karkador. 3.5/5 Town stars.
TL21xx [m]
I have a hard time reading this player, and I'm second-guessing my reaction here. He is low-activity, and yet makes hefty and decisive posts. My experience with this player is that it could mean good or bad. I don't want to get burned again with a quick assumption, but I am cautious. He seems to want someone to press Sorian, but voted for me anyway for pushing the Camjo issue (which he could have just, you know, said without a vote). Oh well. 2.5/5 Town stars.
Ty4on [m]
Still not sure where this player is in this game. He SEEMS to be agreeing with me, but is also way on the sidelines, just watching things unfold. I respect him as a player, so I really really hope he's Town again. Other than that, I wonder what this post was about. 3/5 Town stars, I want this to be 5/5.
I missed this the first time;
Camjo, the assumption isn't necessarily that you're saving Flux. I would sooner assume you're saving El Topo. Also, Flux wasn't quite so suicidal on D1.
Xamtheking
Member
He could have saved someone that Flame might have had a hard on for, too.
I've been pretty upfront (as upfront as I can be) about the Batcomputer. Curious to hear the theory anyway, but I've already explained it.
That's possible, but it doesn't look like Flame's hard on was leading a vote anywhere, so it'd be quite an overreaction.
Xamtheking
Member
Here are my thoughts
Say you're scum
You obviously know who is scum and who isn't scum
I believed you took what would be an ordinary list and started to get people thinking about the list and what I mean
Are people taking the Batcomputer as gospel? Hell no, but scum don't need to completely woo town, just trick them a bit.
Also, using the Batcomputer and shit also makes it much harder to analyze what you did on D1 when we are looking for tells because it's wrapped up in fluff
Xamtheking
Member
Right, which is why I think Camjo might be a neutral.
I really don't care to bother with the idea that I was trying to save a maf buddy anymore. I've explained my thought process on picking Flame multiple times, if you don't believe me then whatever. I have nothing new to say on the subject that will change your mind.
Also, Flux asked whether he could turbo himself and voted himself at one point. I'd call that suicidal.
I'll offer you an alternate view - actually not too different.
Let's say scum sees a Town player put out a list of "scum" and a "neutral". Of course, they know who on the list is truly scum and who is Town, but they can't verify the neutral.
So, as a bit of a "what the hell", they press on the player listed as neutral. Worst case scenario, they've killed someone who wasn't on their team anyway. Best case, they've killed someone important and "called Kark's bluff". See, even if the Batcomputer is bullshit, maybe there's something to the Neutral name that's just inexplicably alluring.
Maybe the player who made the list actually knows something about this "Neutral" player, and this was some weird breadcrumb or something. So scum will lightly push for El Topo. They might even justify their vote by saying "maybe there's something to this list".
Day end comes around. The votes look like this:
17 out of the 18 players voted. FluxWave was the only one who didn't, and I suspect it's just a matter of the override hitting while his vote was in the air.
Before Camjo switched, he had his vote on Topo, making it Topo 5 to Flux 9.
Now, it's a simple numbers game. Scum players had their vote in there somewhere. There's no doubt.
In an 18 player game, we can make 4 different assumptions about this situation.
1) All the scum had their votes on Flux
2) All the scum had their votes on Topo
3) All the scum had their votes on neither Topo nor Flux
4) The votes were mixed throughout the four options that got votes.
Here's the thing - Topo's votes.
SkyOdin is dead, confirmed Town. I'm Town, but you don't know that yet. That leaves Trigger and weemadarthur in question. Are they both Town? Well, if everybody on El Topo was Town, then we have to accept that all the scum went to the Flux vote, or to Camjo or Mazre.
So I ask again - how many scum are in this game? I think it's 4. Where did they vote? That's what we're going to figure out.
But it's curious that the El Topo vote, having appeared on my list, ended up the way he did.
Xamtheking
Member
*ACTIVATING THEORY CANNON*
Karkerdoodle, I think we have 3 scum as opposed to 4. Why, you may ask? Simple; we had a Commuter. Town does not normally get commuters unless there is a lot of shit that could hit said commuter, otherwise the role might not be best suited for the balancing situation. I would not be surprised to have 3 very powerful scum in the room with us.
*DEACTIVATING THEORY CANNON*
Karkerdoodle, I think we have 3 scum as opposed to 4. Why, you may ask? Simple; we had a Commuter. Town does not normally get commuters unless there is a lot of shit that could hit said commuter, otherwise the role might not be best suited for the balancing situation. I would not be surprised to have 3 very powerful scum in the room with us.
*DEACTIVATING THEORY CANNON*
Xamtheking
Member
Possibly, but these are Batman villains, you can bet they have some scary shit up their sleeves.
Xamtheking
Member
Also, Karkador, this is probably peak mental activity for me right now, so if you compile a list of questions, I might actually get my laptop out and answer them
But if you don't have any pressing questions, let me know so I can sleep.
Apparently, I perform best at mafia when my head hurts
But if you don't have any pressing questions, let me know so I can sleep.
Apparently, I perform best at mafia when my head hurts