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[Hynad]

There's something I don't understand.

Doesn't the switch to x86 allow for current games to run better than on the older version by default, since both PS4 versions share the exact same hardware configuration, with one only being more powerful, yet still use the same API?

Why would patches be needed?

We don't need patches when we change our GPUs in our PCs. Games simply run better when we upgrade to more poweful components. Why would that be different for the PS4K? Both versions of the console will "speak" the exact same language. With one simply being more powerful than the other.

What am I missing?

 

[CosmicQueso]

Is there any guarantee every publisher will do this? I mean it's all conjecture for now (and pretty much has been for the last two months lol), but history has shown, sometimes, publishers can be inconsiderate of developer workload and flow (e.g. As the latest Jimquisition points out in one aspect of development - crunch).

I know my post may leap some logic but I hope you can see what I'm trying to say. Is there any guarantee that publishers will give developers, not only the extra QA time, but resources like you say considering this gen hasn't been all that reliable for stable games, and that was for only one PS4!

I hear what you're saying... but bad publishers will continue to be bad publishers. Good publishers will continue to be good publishers.

Something like this doesn't change that basic principle one way or the other.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

What a load on nonsense. See all the other threads. A lot of gamers are happy.

Until they play the games. People think this console is going to enable 1080p60 games. They are deluded.

All that's gonna happen is they are going to get better looking 1080p30 games with similar performance to current PS4 games framerate wise.

There's something I don't understand.

Doesn't the switch to x86 make it possible for a hardware architecture being built the same way, but with more powerful components allow for current games to run better than on the older version by default?

Why would patches be needed?

We don't need patches when we change our GPUs in our PCs. Why would they be required for the PS4K? Both versions of the console will "speak" the exact same language. Only one will be more powerful.

What am I missing?

Games on PC are optimised for a variety of different GPUs and they have graphics settings so people can maintain the level of performance they have/want.

Consoles are a set spec and games are developed specifically to optimize for that spec. Some games have physics that are tied to a locked framerate also. Running it at faster FPS would make the game either run in super speed or start freaking out physics wise.

 

[Domcorleone]

Watched the PS4 keynote before release and listened to Cerny talk about the PS4 like everyone else, there is no way I thought there would be talks about a revision 3 years after launch.

Why does it matter to you so much? Your PS4 will literally play the same games as NEO. Do you really need to feel like you have the best of everything? You are already playing the inferior versions of games as is. Most Ps4 games are either 900p or 1080p and 30fps.

 

[DeepEnigma]

We won't know if this will lead to more sales, it could just be cannibalizing the PS4 sales instead.

It is still the same ecosystem and still a Playstation sold, and still the same software sold on it. They will be profiting in either scenario.

There's something I don't understand.

Doesn't the switch to x86 make it possible for a hardware architecture being built the same way, but with more powerful components allow for current games to run better than on the older version by default?

Why would patches be needed?

We don't need patches when we change our GPUs in our PCs. Why would they be required for the PS4K? Both versions of the console will "speak" the exact same language. Only one will be more powerful.

What am I missing?

The one major issue, is a 'locked framerate'... it would have to be patched to either remove the lock, or have a capped 60 if it goes beyond that.

So yes, a PS4 game that is out now, will more than likely perform the same as a PS4, to take advantage of the more power to get better framerate, etc., it will need a patch.

 

[Goron2000]

Yes, but NEO mode can be same as PS4 mode. If current PS4 games run on PS4K then any game developed on PS4 will run on NEO. Not a real problem.

It's still 2 different systems and even with slightly different specs it adds so many variables and issues.

 

[True Fire]

Some of these complaints are completely nonsensical. I might stay away from upgraded console threads until E3, because these pre-reveal meltdowns are just pathetic.

 

[BKK]

I do worry this has all the makings of a 32x.

The arguments for wanting a PS4k sound the same as Genesis

Consumer: "Hey SEGA, why is the Genesis so underpowered? Where's the polygons? Why does the Genesis have such a weak colors? Why are Arcade versions so much superior?"

SEGA:"Ok, here's an upgrade for it instead."

Consumers: Naw it sucks. Don't want it anymore."

Developers: Same, we don't need it either.

It was pretty crazy how Sega thought that releasing 32X in the West at the same time that they released Saturn in Japan was a good idea, but this really isn't comparable. PS5 won't be releasing in Japan or anywhere else for quite some time, and 32X had it's own unique software, which wasn't compatible with the original Genesis/Mega Drive.

Anyway, devs may not be happy with having this thrown on them this close to some of their games' release, that's understandable, but it's ultimately what their publishers have been asking for ... an end to generational transitions.

 

[BruceCLea]

I'm no developer just a dumb early adopting consumer and im not happy with it neither.

I bought a PS4 on launch and I'm fine with it. It's technology. The PS4 was very conservative tech-wise when it launched and so was the XBOX One.

Tech changes. It evolves. If you really didn't care about this machine you wouldn't be angry because it's going to play the same damn games.

The NEO will just play them at higher settings. There will be no huge changes.

 

[LyleLanley]

Granted, but aren't you assuming that this results in no meaningful incremental growth to the total household installed base? Could be, may not be. Impossible to say right now.

In any case, was answering the question as to why a dev would be happy with this. I was giving an answer as to why a dev would be happy with this.

No one knows what the actual results will be.

I don't think we'll ever know for certain but I have my doubts that this will significantly increase sales. My assumption is that someone that isn't interested in buying a new console now isn't going to be swayed by a marginally more powerful device.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Some of these complaints are completely nonsensical. I might stay away from upgraded console threads until E3, because these pre-reveal meltdowns are just pathetic.

I wish I were that strong.

I don't think we'll ever know for certain but I have my doubt that this will significantly increase sales. My assumption is that someone that isn't interested in buying a new console now isn't going to be swayed by a marginally more powerful device.

Maybe. Or maybe early adopting 4k households buy one, hand down the current PS4 to the kids, or maybe some current non-sony households pick one up to try it out. Perhaps they grab more share this way, maybe they get some PC crowd over.

It just needs to perform like or slightly better than a slim to get the same job done this gen that slims did last gen, right?

 

[Scrotum Phillips]

Consoles have been "underpowered" since eternity dude ... and suddenly that is a problem? Again and again and again, if you're keen on having the best graphics and most impressive physics, get a PC. Then you don't have the console games, sucks, but at least you have what you want on the technical side.

For all those not into this constant hardware updating, there are consoles, which offer(ed) the advantage of identical game performance for all consumers.

See, I think you can have both ways. OG PS4 is still an option for the masses at a cheaper pricepoint, and those that want a more powerful option also have that as well.

i think continuing this "tradition" of lengthy console generations is woefully outdated and it would be nice if they adapted to change like literally every other piece of technology does.

 

[Plinko]

A bit confused can someone answer me this...

The Digital Foundry article says dev kits are on the way.

Colin's source says " most developers" are not happy as if they already have worked with "Base/Neo Mode". Is this in reference to already having dev kits and running into more work or is this in anticipation of this recent news and being concerned that it will be more work?

Has to be anticipation. Common sense says it is more work for devs.

 

[Raylan]

Until they play the games. People think this console is going to enable 1080p60 games. They are deluded.

All that's gonna happen is they are going to get better looking 1080p30 games with similar performance to current PS4 games framerate wise.

No. 'Some' of them think that. I saw these posts. Not all of 'us' are like that.

 

[Resident_UA]

It's still 2 different systems and even with slightly different specs it adds so many variables and issues.

It's literally the same system. If you can run Knack on that thing you will have no issue running newly developed game.

 

[Boke1879]

I wish Matt could just spill everything he knows lol

 

[OrbitalBeard]

What happens if 75% of games releasing don't take advantage of the NEO? Is the purchase still worth it then?

If those 25% are good games with nice enhancements, absolutely.

I'm not expecting the majority of games to take full advantage of the upgraded specs and I'm still interested in buying one.

 

[SmackAttack]

Wow, I'm so behind on the info with this that I was still under the impression that this was still a rumor and not sure if it was true. Where have I been?

 

[CosmicQueso]

I wish Matt could just spill everything he knows lol

He keeps implying it's not that big a deal. People don't seem to like that answer.

 

[Audioboxer]

What happens if 75% of games releasing don't take advantage of the NEO? Is the purchase still worth it then?

If it has 4K media support and upscales all games to 4K, then maybe? Depends how you like to spend your money. Lots invested in tech will splash out for the most minor of improvements simply to have the latest. That is part of the hobby for a lot of people. I'm certain we have decent numbers who just go to Slim versions of consoles for aesthetics and possibly fan noise alone. Those don't even have any technical benefits (or usually very minor ~ think Sony added bitstreaming support of some sorts to the PS3 slim).

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Noooooo

Ooooo

There, I said it.

I'll be investing in this SKU.

 

[Ray Down]

He keeps implying it's not that big a deal. People don't seem to like that answer.

My guess is either some devs just don't have kits and are worried about having more on there back.

Matt a dev whom we are pretty sure has a kit.

 

[Boke1879]

He keeps implying it's not that big a deal. People don't seem to like that answer.

I know! I assume he knows a lot about or is working with one.

 

[NullPointer]

You're already not playing the best version of most games by being a console gamer.

You're playing the best version of them on that platform.

Again, let me remind people of the Xbox 360 Arcade/Core. Treated the HDD as optional. Allowed MS to market the arcade/core as budget while pushing the HDD version to enthusiasts.

How did that work out?

Its also a prime example of an option having wider ramification on the platform as a whole, and not just arcade/core owners, as developers had to design their games to account for players without hard drives. Indie games also had hard size caps because of it.

 

[farisr]

Wow, I'm so behind on the info with this that I was still under the impression that this was still a rumor and not sure if it was true. Where have I been?

On Mars, in a cave, with your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears .

Spoiler

it happens

 

[kaskade]

I could see why. They basically have to scale 2 versions of the game. I'm just curious how this works. Is developing a PC vs PS4 game very different? PC games have settings for graphics all the time. Or is this just that they are used to just making one version for a console?

I guess we really just have to wait until this is official and see what Sony's plan is. At this point they better start talking since people are getting pretty worried.

 

[Saven]

Can I use 4K media right now? No? There is a benefit.

The gaming side of things, benefit if you want better performance (especially in VR). Don't care? Stick to PS4. Do some people care? They're saying they do on GAF if it means sketchy 30FPS titles get locked, and some locked 30FPS titles go up to 60FPS. Benefits to some then surely?

Or can we just lump everyone into the category you feel you align with?

Well, I was mainly talking about the people who already shelled out a lot of money for a PS4 already, especially if they just bought it recently and also the fact that developers are forced to develop on it. Yeah, there are benefits to it and could have worded that a lot better tbh, and what I meant by not benefiting anybody was for the existing userbase for the PS4 already and the developers forced to spend extra resources into doing something that they don't want to do and could use those resources for other things. Personally, I feel that the resources used to make a PS4K would be better off going to the eventual PS5 IMO.

And LMAO at your last comment. If you got the impression that everyone should think like me just based on my initial take on this excerpt, then you are taking this way too seriously. Grow up.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I just want them to reveal this thing so everything can be out in the open

 

[benny_a]

Some of these complaints are completely nonsensical. I might stay away from upgraded console threads until E3, because these pre-reveal meltdowns are just pathetic.

I occasionally click on these and the most passionate people that are absolutely against this just read like rants about being unhappy with their PS4.

Not sure why a new model would change that aspect but it certainly isn't insightful industry commentary.

 

[DeepEnigma]

He keeps implying it's not that big a deal. People don't seem to like that answer.

My guess is either some devs just don't have kits and are worried about having more on there back.

Matt a dev whom we are pretty sure has a kit.

I know! I assume he knows a lot about or is working with one.

Yep.

 

[Audioboxer]

Well, I was mainly talking about the people who already shelled out a lot of money for a PS4 already, especially if they just bought it recently and also the fact that developers are forced to develop on it. Yeah, there are benefits to it and could have worded that a lot better tbh, and what I meant by not benefiting anybody was for the existing userbase for the PS4 already and the developers forced to spend extra resources into doing something that they don't want to do and could use those resources for other things. Personally, I feel that the resources used to make a PS4K would be better off going to the eventual PS5 IMO.

And LMAO at your last comment. If you got the impression that everyone should think like me just based on my initial take on this excerpt, then you are taking this way too seriously. Grow up.

Well you did post quite a definitive remark

This doesn't benefit consumers or developers.

But fair enough, I now understand your post better than it first seemed.

 

[QaaQer]

I do I mean if I didn't I wouldn't early adopt or choose the PS4 over Xbox One for multiplats and would be fine playing the multiplats available on PS3 and 360 if I didn't care about playing the best console version of games.

So you want the best version but you aren't willing to pay for a beefy pc or an incremental console upgrade?

ps4k is just them doing what every other consumer electronic segment does: if you want the best tv/phone/amplifier/etc, you have to upgrade regularly.

I don't see it as a betrayal, but I guess I could see how some might if they expected things to remain as they have since the late 1970s when they bought in.

 

[kiguel182]

You don't say at your console launch btw guys in 3~4 years we'll have something better, please wait.

For what it is worth anyway, from October 2015 probably 1 year+ before this launches - http://ps4daily.com/2015/10/sony-is-considering-giving-ps4-a-performance-boost/

The rumours started a while back for a reason, Sony said they were considering it. I think that's a decent amount of a heads up to possibly expect something on the horizon.

Maybe they should've. Maybe they should've warned they were going to bet to shorter cycles instead of making believe this was going to be business as usual.

I don't feel wronged but some clarity would be nice when it comes to 400 dollar purchases.

 

[Jonboy]

You don't have to. The PS4 has been out matched by the PC all the time outside of exclusive games, yet many don't run out and buy one; they are happy with the machine they have that provides a great experience - or as you might say "best console experience". A new console comes out, and is better than it - do you suddenly throw the old one away? This is what is looking like will happen with NX. The only real issue here seems to be it's a PS, and you already have one that will soon be not as powerful as the new one. So what? If your experience suddenly gets awful and is less than it currently is - then I think you have a right to complain about not getting what you expect from what you bought, otherwise I don't think so. There was never a guarantee that nothing more powerful would arrive.

Great job summarizing this so succinctly. Exactly how I see it.

I just want them to reveal this thing so everything can be out in the open

I do wonder if the rampant leaks will force them to show it before E3. It was clearly planned for E3, but I'm not sure they can afford to wait that long now.

 

[spookyfish]

Usually the market leader waits a whole generation before doing something stupid. Sony's going the efficiency route.

 

[Hynad]

Until they play the games. People think this console is going to enable 1080p60 games. They are deluded.

All that's gonna happen is they are going to get better looking 1080p30 games with similar performance to current PS4 games framerate wise.



Games on PC are optimised for a variety of different GPUs and they have graphics settings so people can maintain the level of performance they have/want.

Consoles are a set spec and games are developed specifically to optimize for that spec. Some games have physics that are tied to a locked framerate also. Running it at faster FPS would make the game either run in super speed or start freaking out physics wise.

The one major issue, is a 'locked framerate'... it would have to be patched to either remove the lock, or have a capped 60 if it goes beyond that.

So yes, a PS4 game that is out now, will more than likely perform the same as a PS4, to take advantage of the more power to get better framerate, etc., it will need a patch.

But for games with fluctuating framerate, due to the engine straining the hardware, or games relying on dynamic resolution to counter performance fluctuations would run locked at their target framerates without any dips, and at the highest target resolution.

With no patches needed.

Patches would be required if they want to give people a choice, but they wouldn't not be required.

Now, since most games suffer from framerate fluctuations and more and more games make use of dynamic resolution, at least two issues would be solved without really needing a patch.

Most console developers are used to giving such choice when they make their PC games. I don't see why this would be such a headache to them now. It would be new to console gaming, but not new to game makers.

 

[QaaQer]

There's something I don't understand.

Doesn't the switch to x86 allow for current games to run better than on the older version by default, since both PS4 versions share the exact same hardware configuration, with one only being more powerful, yet still use the same API?

Why would patches be needed?

We don't need patches when we change our GPUs in our PCs. Games simply run better when we upgrade to more poweful components. Why would that be different for the PS4K? Both versions of the console will "speak" the exact same language. With one simply being more powerful than the other.

What am I missing?

you underestimate how much work goes into drivers and the base os to make those things possible.

 

[Bots are better than you]

See, I think you can have both ways. OG PS4 is still an option for the masses at a cheaper pricepoint, and those that want a more powerful option also have that as well.

i think continuing this "tradition" of lengthy console generations is woefully outdated and it would be nice if they adapted to change like literally every other piece of technology does.

I like how you put tradition into quotation marks, as Sony was the one with all those 10 year plans in prior generations. Other than PC, what technology offers frequent update cycles? Smartphones? You mean the devices most people get subsidized via provider plans. Are consoles having subsidized plans? No, you're being asked at least 400$ for not getting a possibly worse performance of the same game on the regular hardware.

 

[NullPointer]

do you have to play the best version? Like, is it a compulsion?

It wasn't even a question until word of the NEO broke.

This generation is just getting started and we're already going to look at the base PS4 as OG/Legacy hardware. Its a weird feeling when pre-release hyped heavy hitters like Gran Turismo haven't even come out on the platform yet and we're left to wonder whether the NEO will be the only place to play it with stable framerates or "as its meant to be played".

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Now consoles are using PC architecture, maybe it will become normal for an upgrade, halfway through the life cycle.

PC parts get better and more efficient all the time, so instead of a slim console at some point, like what used to happen, we will now get a upgraded console instead.

 

[Scrawnton]

I occasionally click on these and the most passionate people that are absolutely against this just read like rants about being unhappy with their PS4.

Not sure why a new model would change that aspect but it certainly isn't insightful industry commentary.

My issue isn't with there being an upgrade that exists, my issue is Sony is going to try to sell us an upgraded console when we still don't have games that were announced before the regular ps4 even came out. Sony barely released any worthwhile first party games and half of the studios are still on mystery projects and they want to ram a new console down the industries throat.

How about making first party games to justify the regular PS4 first before you go and upgrade the damn thing?

Say what you want about the failure of the Wii U and such, but at least Nintendo was there throwing amazing games at it.

 

[Boke1879]

My guess is either some devs just don't have kits and are worried about having more on there back.

Matt a dev whom we are pretty sure has a kit.

No one is ever happy about more work. No matter how small or large. Lot's of people no matter what resist change. At my job we have to constantly adapt and change, and accommodate how we do things. Almost no one is happy about it. But we do it and it ends up working out.

 

[Curufinwe]

Usually the market leader waits a whole generation before doing something stupid. Sony's going the efficiency route.

It'll be fun to see what you say when the PS4K sells out at launch.

 

[Dynomutt]

Has to be anticipation. Common sense says it is more work for devs.

Thanks for clarifying!

I'm not a authority at all on graphics or tech. I do understand that the PS4 SDK is scalable and that Sony has two teams ICE and SN Systems that specialize in performance/efficiencies.

I find hard to believe any of this is reactionary I feel as if Sony and Cerny may have had this project planned, this is just a phase of a overall end game.

I have included some information below:

PS4 SDK:http://bit.ly/1KkF54n

and...

ICE Team:http://bit.ly/17Rxg4u

and...

SN Systems:http://bit.ly/18kpiRh

 

[bfrye26]

it is only expected, the PS4 launched with hardware that was "good" but the PC quickly surpassed it. This is the only way Sony can keep up and ensure all games will work. That being said, any fragmentation of the market is bad and this will just leave people feeling like they were cheated. There needs to be a way for people who JUST picked up a PS4 to not feel as if they wasted their money!

 

[Mass_Pincup]

What I found funny is that there's a lot of games that Sony announced in 2013 that are going to be out either after or close to the launch of this new console.

 

[Movalpolos]

Just because Colin overreacts and makes some fucking nebulous statement doesn't give his claim any credit.

His "source" says. He's completely alleviated of the responsibility of being accurate if his "source" is wrong. Get out there and give us REAL accounts from REAL devs, Colin.
Are you reading this thread? I bet you are.

 

[Curufinwe]

My issue isn't with there being an upgrade that exists, my issue is Sony is going to try to sell us an upgraded console when we still don't have games that were announced before the regular ps4 even came out. Sony barely released any worthwhile first party games and half of the studios are still on mystery projects and they want to ram a new console down the industries throat.

How about making first party games to justify the regular PS4 first before you go and upgrade the damn thing?

Say what you want about the failure of the Wii U and such, but at least Nintendo was there throwing amazing games at it.

They went the whole generation without a proper Zelda or AC game.

 

[AmuroChan]

I'm with Greg on this one. When it comes to technology, there will always be something waiting just around the corner. If not this, it'll be the PS5 in a few years time. Is it a big middle finger to all the current PS4 owners that the PS5 is looming in the near future?

I'm a day 1 PS4 owner. Even if I had known on November 2013 that a better PS4 sku would be released in Fall 2016, I still would've purchased the PS4. I get three full years with the PS4. That time is easily worth my $400.

 

[benny_a]

I'm going to focus on this aspect because that's obviously the core of your concern:

How about making first party games to justify the regular PS4 first before you go and upgrade the damn thing?

So you're unhappy with the current PS4. You would continue to be unhappy about the PS4 until it justifies itself for you whenever that point occurs for you personally.

There is no logical path to why a leak of an upcoming changed model would change that aspect for you.

Edit: To be clear, you are absolutely free to feel unhappy with your purchase because it hasn't justified yourself to you. Now you're smarter and will change your behavior and don't buy into future hype.