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Jo Cox (Labour MP) stabbed, shot dead in Yorkshire

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S

SuperBowser

Member
OverBlood 3 said:
It's not a ridiculous idea considering the story I posted earlier, this guy stabbed someone 39 times and the NHS essentially took responsibility as he was let down by mental health services. I'm not making a judgement either way I'm just saying there's a precedent.
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"Mental problems" is a vague term - it encompasses personality disorder and substance misuse too. So far, I've read nothing suggesting this person was unwell at the time of attack or that he wasn't in full control of his calculated actions. On the other hand, there's been plenty to suggest he was a racist, hateful person.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
You seriously think no mainstream politician would capitalise on a Syrian Muslim refugee killing an MP?
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Farage is reasonably mainstream, no? But no, I genuinely think that most would have the sense to stay away from it. Maybe some back bencher chancing their arm on some quick career progression, but I doubt you'd see a cabinet level minister trying to capitalise on it.
 
D

Diablos

Member
She seemed like a very intelligent and compassionate person. I was saddened to hear this news after an already devastating weekend here in the US. Rest in Peace.
 
O

OverBlood 3

Banned
Guardian reporting:

Special police units who searched the house of the man arrested after the killing of MP Jo Cox are believed to have found samples of Nazi regalia and far-right literature.

Thomas Mair was also known to have bought books from a US-based neo-Nazi group, including guides on how to build homemade guns and explosives, according to an anti-hate campaign group in the US. Among them was a manual on how to make a homemade pistol.
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ht-gun-manuals-from-us-neo-nazis-group-claims

Lots more details in the link
 
J

Jacob

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
There is so much analysis of mental health going on for an actual Nazi.

Maybe all ISIS people are just mentally ill?
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Quite possibly, but it's more common for people to speculate about the role of mental illness in the aftermath of an apparent lone wolf attack. You know, exactly like people have been doing in the case of the Orlando shooting, where both mental illness and political radicalization seem to have been factors.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Sources say that the suspected killer was lucid when first questioned. A picture is now emerging of a deliberately targeted attack in which Mair lay in wait for the MP as she emerged from her constituency meeting on Thursday.
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So premeditated murder with politics as a motive. Smells like terrorism.

There were also reports that Mair was named as a subscriber to SA Patriot, a South African magazine published by White Rhino Club, a pro-apartheid group. The club describes the magazine’s editorial stance as being opposed to “multicultural societies” and “expansionist Islam”.
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There it is...
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
There is so much analysis of mental health going on for an actual Nazi.

Maybe all ISIS people are just mentally ill?
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It's strange because not a single report indicates any evidence of him being unwell in his mental state. He was just a horrible angry racist man that built a pistol and murdered a specific person.

At best one could argue he had a personality disorder. But that's pointless speculation that doesn't excuse him and is in the face of clear evidence of his premeditated thoughts and actions.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
dalin80 said:
He is missing one area, he talks extensively of newspaper headlines about the 'evils of immigration', but every newspaper around here has headlines and scaremongering of how the UK will be bankrupted by leaving and how wars will break out and apocalypses will ruin us all. The sensationalising isn't limited to one side of the debate.
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While there's stuff to question on both sides of the referendum debate, I think the point he's making is wider. It's about a much longer, much more serious issue of the blaming immigration. On the language used to describe people in fleeing from war. People of other races. The amount of prejudice that can be got away with in the media in the world of 'balance' and 'debate'.
 
P

Par Score

Member
Well, glad even the BBC are finally cottoning on to the whole "This guy is a Nazi terrorist" angle.

dalin80 said:
He is missing one area, he talks extensively of newspaper headlines about the 'evils of immigration', but every newspaper around here has headlines and scaremongering of how the UK will be bankrupted by leaving and how wars will break out and apocalypses will ruin us all. The sensationalising isn't limited to one side of the debate.
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Yes, yes, both sides.

Both sides are engaging in the dehumanising and other-ing of ethnic minorities.

Both sides are using thinly veiled Nazi imagery to demonise immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers.

Both sides are inciting their supporters to anger and violence with rhetoric and prejudice.

It's definitely both sides, and you're definitely right to sit in the middle and rise above it all.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Par Score said:
Well, glad even the BBC are finally cottoning on to the whole "This guy is a Nazi terrorist" angle.



Yes, yes, both sides.

Both sides are engaging in the dehumanising and other-ing of ethnic minorities.

Both sides are using thinly veiled Nazi imagery to demonise immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers.

Both sides are inciting their supporters to anger and violence with rhetoric and prejudice.

It's definitely both sides, and you're definitely right to sit in the middle and rise above it all.
Click to expand...


Stories about Ed Miliband's Britain hating Jew dad. Jeremy threat to national security Corbyn. SNP trying screw the English over, etc, etc.

If it ain't Tory it's a threat to the nation.
 
D

dalin80

Banned
Par Score said:
Well, glad even the BBC are finally cottoning on to the whole "This guy is a Nazi terrorist" angle.



Yes, yes, both sides.

Both sides are engaging in the dehumanising and other-ing of ethnic minorities.

Both sides are using thinly veiled Nazi imagery to demonise immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers.

Both sides are inciting their supporters to anger and violence with rhetoric and prejudice.

It's definitely both sides, and you're definitely right to sit in the middle and rise above it all.
Click to expand...

Congrats on missing the point.

Supposedly he is criticising the media for sensationalising and doom and glooming to the point that some people may be pushed into doing stupid things, yet the only headlines he discusses are on one side of the debate. A quick walk to the local cornershop and just about every newspaper has got a 'apocalypse coming!' headline, this whole debate has turned toxic and aggressive. Much like how the Scots vote damaged relations regardless of outcome this has also driven a wedge between people.
 
R

Real Hero

Member
dalin80 said:
Congrats on missing the point.

Supposedly he is criticising the media for sensationalising and doom and glooming to the point that some people may be pushed into doing stupid things, yet the only headlines he discusses are on one side of the debate. A quick walk to the local cornershop and just about every newspaper has got a 'apocalypse coming!' headline, this whole debate has turned toxic and aggressive. Much like how the Scots vote damaged relations regardless of outcome this has also driven a wedge between people.
Click to expand...

it's not just about the debate, the media in this country as been terrible for along time. If you read nothing but the sun in a morning you would fucked in the head
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
And putting aside the anti-immigration stuff, the level of dislike and hatred of politicians, they're "all in it for themselves" etc, can particularly be traced back to the expenses scandal.
 
J

Jacob

Member
SuperBowser said:
It's strange because not a single report indicates any evidence of him being unwell in his mental state. He was just a horrible angry racist man that built a pistol and murdered a specific person.

At best one could argue he had a personality disorder. But that's pointless speculation that doesn't excuse him and is in the face of clear evidence of his premeditated thoughts and actions.
Click to expand...

Did you miss the reports that he has been in treatment for mental health problems or do you think that doesn't count?

And who has said that mental health issues would excuse his actions? What he did was wrong and whether he's sent to prison or a secure hospital, he's obviously going away for a long time. The secure hospital option is where Loughner ended up in the US, and where Breivik would have gone in Norway if the original psychiatrist's opinion had stood. That doesn't mean that their actions were excused.

EDIT: not saying that mental health issues was definitely the cause of this cause there's still been so few definite facts reported. Even if it is, there was also clearly a political motivation too, which would also be similar to the cases of Loughner and Breivik.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Jacob said:
Did you miss the reports that he has been in treatment for mental health problems or do you think that doesn't count?

And who has said that mental health issues would excuse his actions? What he did was wrong and whether he's sent to prison or a secure hospital, he's obviously going away for a long time. The secure hospital option is where Loughner ended up in the US, and where Breivik would have gone in Norway if the original psychiatrist's opinion had stood. That doesn't mean that their actions were excused.

EDIT: not saying that mental health issues was definitely the cause of this cause there's still been so few definite facts reported. Even if it is, there was also clearly a political motivation too, which would also be similar to the cases of Loughner and Breivik.
Click to expand...

So few definite facts...

He left the house with a knife and gun with the intention to kill
He lay in wait for his target while she was busy doing her job
He shouted "Britain First" or "Put Britain First" during the attack
He has Neo Nazi and apartheid paraphernalia
He was a supporter of Britain First.
He was reported to be lucid after the attack.

But you're right, let's wait for more information.
 
J

Jacob

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
So few definite facts...

He left the house with a knife and gun with the intention to kill
He lay in wait for his target while she was busy doing her job
He shouted "Britain First" or "Put Britain First" during the attack
He has Neo Nazi and apartheid paraphernalia
He was a supporter of Britain First.
He was reported to be lucid after the attack.

But you're right, let's wait for more information.
Click to expand...

What are you disagreeing with me about? The part where I said that there was clearly a political motivation, or the part where I said that we didn't know enough to say whether or not mental health issues were also a factor? 'Cause I'm not really seeing anything in your post that contradicts either of those statements.
 
B

Beefy

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
So few definite facts...

He left the house with a knife and gun with the intention to kill
He lay in wait for his target while she was busy doing her job
He shouted "Britain First" or "Put Britain First" during the attack
He has Neo Nazi and apartheid paraphernalia
He was a supporter of Britain First.
He was reported to be lucid after the attack.

But you're right, let's wait for more information.
Click to expand...

He can be a racist terrorist who has a mental issue though.
 
C

Cromwell

Banned
Par Score said:
Well, glad even the BBC are finally cottoning on to the whole "This guy is a Nazi terrorist" angle.



Yes, yes, both sides.

Both sides are engaging in the dehumanising and other-ing of ethnic minorities.

Both sides are using thinly veiled Nazi imagery to demonise immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers.

Both sides are inciting their supporters to anger and violence with rhetoric and prejudice.

It's definitely both sides, and you're definitely right to sit in the middle and rise above it all.
Click to expand...

Fucking amen to this. I'm so sick of the bullshit equivocating both in UK and US politics right now.
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
Jacob said:
Did you miss the reports that he has been in treatment for mental health problems or do you think that doesn't count?

And who has said that mental health issues would excuse his actions? What he did was wrong and whether he's sent to prison or a secure hospital, he's obviously going away for a long time. The secure hospital option is where Loughner ended up in the US, and where Breivik would have gone in Norway if the original psychiatrist's opinion had stood. That doesn't mean that their actions were excused.

EDIT: not saying that mental health issues was definitely the cause of this cause there's still been so few definite facts reported. Even if it is, there was also clearly a political motivation too, which would also be similar to the cases of Loughner and Breivik.
Click to expand...


If you read my post you'd see I acknowledged a potential history of personality disorder or substance misuse. However, by all reports and accounts from family and neighbours, he had been doing okay for year(s). There was no indication or concerns of him being unwell. Conversely, we have extensive evidence of him being a hateful Nazi that carefully planned his actions to murder a specific person. Let's call a spade a spade.

I think society's rush to label something that makes them uncomfortable or they don't understand as "mental problem" is bad. It stigmatises actual mental health problems further.
 
L

Lazlo Woodbine

Member
Wrestlemania said:
https://twitter.com/LondonBlackRevs/status/743884213645090820

Well there's the Britain First link, if anyone needed further confirmation.
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The evidence is steadily building but I think It's painfully clear that we as a country have fully embraced the same ghoulish hunger for detail that occurs in the US after an incident of this nature. Some of the public and a large segment of the media are just repeating the kind of behaviour exhibited after Lee Rigby's murder; it was just as repugnant then as it is now.

It's not for us to speculate (or arguably politicize) until we have complete clarity and the police/courts have been allowed to do their bloody job. Cox has been dead for barely 24 hours and already sordid speculation and gossip column worthy discourse has taken hold. How is any of this in the public interest exactly (for example The Telegraph just put out a 'story' regarding her dying words; just utterly disgusting)?

We should be spending this time eulogising someone who was clearly a committed MP instead of picking over rumour and heresay like vultures. I don't think articles linking this to the culture surrounding the referendum particularly helpful but I'd be lying if I said I don't agree with the sentiment unlike the - predictably tasteless - deflection and sewer logic that a lot of the right wing pundits have taken to currently.

I say all this as someone who feels genuinely depressed by the painfully predictable behaviour that the public and media adopt in the wake of any case of crime/terrorism that hijacks the national zeitgeist. The media sphere (and the public in some respects) need to do some soul searching as to the worth in much of what is being touted as worthwhile editorial and journalism right now.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Cromwell said:
Fucking amen to this. I'm so sick of the bullshit equivocating both in UK and US politics right now.
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I'm hoping this event is enough to wake the right wing up, there's been far too much othering and I hope we never see people like Lynton Crosby infect British politics again.
 
B

Beefy

Member
PJV3 said:
I'm hoping this event is enough to wake the right wing up, there's been far too much othering and I hope we never see people like Lynton Crosby infect British politics again.
Click to expand...

I think the whole of politics needs to look at itself.
 
A

avaya

Member
dalin80 said:
Congrats on missing the point.

Supposedly he is criticising the media for sensationalising and doom and glooming to the point that some people may be pushed into doing stupid things, yet the only headlines he discusses are on one side of the debate. A quick walk to the local cornershop and just about every newspaper has got a 'apocalypse coming!' headline, this whole debate has turned toxic and aggressive. Much like how the Scots vote damaged relations regardless of outcome this has also driven a wedge between people.
Click to expand...

I love this hilarious bullshit argument over doom and glooming. It's the fucking default result on Brexit. I mean fucking hell how myopic do you have to be. Do you think people in financial services whose primary job is advisory for investors would lie that LOLOL we are seeing limit down on equities, bigger move down on UK exposed names than seen in 1987, Black Wednesday, 2000 or Lehman? You think the strategists at these banks are writing for the papers or something? No one could give a single fuck about the paper. The consensus expectation is one entire fucking sigma away from the biggest moves on those events and Lehman was apocalypse level. but LOLOL for shits and giggles fam. Rule Britannia it will be alright jack.

You are voting for recession. You are voting house price crash. Negative equity. Quenched demand. All while we are at zero bound on rates with fucking nothing to respond and guaranteeing further political turmoil over Scottish Independence. So we will fight over that shit over who has the oil, who has the nuclear weapons, who has the currency who has the banking liabilities while in the middle of a self inflicted recession coupled with stagflation. Top job.

This is the fucking default. It's not like I've set it on veteran mode on CoD and I'll try it out for jokes bruv. It's the FUCKING DEFAULT. it's the rational conclusion one after the other.

The reason there are no reasonable arguments against Brexit from an economic point of view is because there fucking isn't. At ALL. Unless you think this is some fucking mental conspiracy by the IMF, all of our allies, the OECD, World Bank and every single large corporate to some how fuck us over. But Putin, Trump and Farage. What a brain trust.

I guess you should tell everyone at 8am on Friday 24th, no it's just scaremongering when the actually money shows half a trillion wiped out in value from UK stocks portending what is to follow. I mean each time the stock market crashes its fucking nothing right? No no no. Nothing. Happiness and light. Land of milk and honey. Is it fuck.
 
B

Beefy

Member
PJV3 said:
Maybe, but I'm talking about serious shit like the London mayor election and pictures of exploded buses.

You understand?
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I got you in the first place. I just think every one needs to learn by the sad loss of Jo Cox.

Milibrand got it right for once:

"People should be able to disagree with each other without the hatred and anger"
 
P

Psychotext

Member
avaya said:
I guess you should tell everyone at 8am on Friday 24th, no it's just scaremongering when the actually money shows half a trillion wiped out in value from UK stocks portending what is to follow. I mean each time the stock market crashes its fucking nothing right? No no no. Nothing. Happiness and light. Land of milk and honey. Is it fuck.
Click to expand...

I enjoyed this post, mostly because I'm feeling pretty much exactly the same frustration.

This isn't a fucking game, and sadly, the people who will suffer the most from leaving the EU are mostly the people who will be voting that way... and the poor bastards haven't got a fucking clue what's coming.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Beefy said:
I got you in the first place. I just think every one needs to learn by the sad loss of Jo Cox.

Milibrand got it right for once:

"People should be able to disagree with each other without the hatred and anger"
Click to expand...

We're talking about different things.

I'm on about the right using it's money, power and media empires to really affect the nation's psyche. People getting angry about issues important to them is a lot trickier to address.
 
D

Dabanton

Member
OverBlood 3 said:
Hopefully this means Britain First is fucked and gone forever. One less bunch of thick racist cunts to deal with.
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Nope. They'll double down. it's no surprise to see many of their acolytes saying this was a setup by the 'establishment' so the 'leave' side would look bad.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
OverBlood 3 said:
Hopefully this means Britain First is fucked and gone forever. One less bunch of thick racist cunts to deal with.
Click to expand...

They're awful. Golding put that video out yesterday saying they don't advocate murder, but they'll ban anyone and delete the comments of anyone that falls outside of their fascist echo chamber on facebook. But what happens if you advocate rape and murder against muslims, or say you;re glad that immigrant children have drowned and hope for some more? Nothing.

If they leave those comments, but delete the lefty ones, how can they possibly claim to not be advocating murder?
 
B

Beefy

Member
PJV3 said:
We're talking about different things.

I'm on about the right using it's money, power and media empires to really affect the nation's psyche. People getting angry about issues important to them is a lot trickier to address.
Click to expand...

He was on about politicians and campaigns. So it's the exact same. The campaign through the media has been hate and anger, stoking peoples fear. In way all the the stuff spewed out by both sides has been hate.
 
D

dalin80

Banned
avaya said:
I love this hilarious bullshit argument over doom and glooming. It's the fucking default result on Brexit. I mean fucking hell how myopic do you have to be. Do you think people in financial services whose primary job is advisory for investors would lie that LOLOL we are seeing limit down on equities, bigger move down on UK exposed names than seen in 1987, Black Wednesday, 2000 or Lehman? You think the strategists at these banks are writing for the papers or something? No one could give a single fuck about the paper. The consensus expectation is one entire fucking sigma away from the biggest moves on those events and Lehman was apocalypse level. but LOLOL for shits and giggles fam. Rule Britannia it will be alright jack.

You are voting for recession. You are voting house price crash. Negative equity. Quenched demand. All while we are at zero bound on rates with fucking nothing to respond and guaranteeing further political turmoil over Scottish Independence. So we will fight over that shit over who has the oil, who has the nuclear weapons, who has the currency who has the banking liabilities while in the middle of a self inflicted recession coupled with stagflation. Top job.

This is the fucking default. It's not like I've set it on veteran mode on CoD and I'll try it out for jokes bruv. It's the FUCKING DEFAULT. it's the rational conclusion one after the other.

The reason there are no reasonable arguments against Brexit from an economic point of view is because there fucking isn't. At ALL. Unless you think this is some fucking mental conspiracy by the IMF, all of our allies, the OECD, World Bank and every single large corporate to some how fuck us over. But Putin, Trump and Farage. What a brain trust.

I guess you should tell everyone at 8am on Friday 24th, no it's just scaremongering when the actually money shows half a trillion wiped out in value from UK stocks portending what is to follow. I mean each time the stock market crashes its fucking nothing right? No no no. Nothing. Happiness and light. Land of milk and honey. Is it fuck.
Click to expand...



Well aren't you the adorable crazy angry person!

Well once you have finished having a rather melodramatic meltdown you could actually ask me which way I'm voting rather then just presuming.

But if that would inconvenience your rant then just skip the spoiler.

I'm voting remain by the way, the EU needs an overhaul and we cant do that from the outside. Although seeing you snap if leave win could be the silver lining to that event!
 
A

avaya

Member
dalin80 said:
Well aren't you the adorable crazy angry person!

Well once you have finished having a rather melodramatic meltdown you could actually ask me which way I'm voting rather then just presuming.

But if that would inconvenience your rant then just skip the spoiler.

I'm voting remain by the way, the EU needs an overhaul and we cant do that from the outside. Although seeing you snap if leave win could be the silver lining to that event!
Click to expand...

I do love being angry though. Long day. I promise a more spectacular meltdown before I catch my flight to NY and never come back.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
Beefy said:
He was on about politicians and campaigns. So it's the exact same. The campaign through the media has been hate and anger, stoking peoples fear. In way all the the stuff spewed out by both sides has been hate.
Click to expand...

But the Tories have been running both sides :D
Corbyn and Labour went on holiday lol.

Oh well I respectfully disagree, but there's no point going around in circles.
 
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