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[family_guy]

I feel like from an investment perspective, there's no way Sony releases PS4 Pro in 2016 and then has a PS5 in 2018. Seems like it will be 2019 or 2020 at the earliest, even later for MS since Scorpio isn't until next year, if MS can make that date. So even though we have these more powerful devices, they are still tied to consoles from 2013 which means this gen will be just as long as it was during the PS3/360 era. I thought it was supposed to be shorter. I do not consider a mid-gen refresh a new generation.

There have been statements whether there will be a true PS5 and I think if VR is the future, there has to be one. Even if PSVR is successful they can't just use that same headset forever. From a resolution perspective alone it's already eclipsed by Gear VR, Rift, and Vive. We need a new system that can power PSVR2, and it can't be held back by PS4.

I have read some comments that eventually OG PS4 and Xbox One support will be dropped, and then it will be PS4 Pro and Scorpio going forward along with PS5 and Xbox One 2. However I don't see how you can drop support for PS4 without also dropping support for PS4 Pro at the same time. They use the same discs and operating system. That will be a big retail mess if people pick up new games 4 years from now that say PS4 on the box, but then having it only working on the Pro. PS5 will most likely use UHD discs for games which we'll probably need since some current games are already hitting that 50GB max on a disc, many of which that aren't even using the higher res textures that are available on PC.

It is nice that we are getting new more powerful hardware right now, but I think the side effect is we won't see any big leaps for a long time. Those great technological advancements AMD and Nvidia are making towards mid 2017- early 2018 most likely won't be in any console until 5 years from now. Tech will change so much in that time. If they are trying to prevent people from moving to PC then I don't see this strategy working out for them. I certainly wouldn't wait until 2020 for PS5 and PSVR2 if I could get a GTX 1170 and Vive 2 next year.

 

[brickarts295]

Nah I fully expect a PS5 and Xbox Two, in 3 years. These consoles are just midgen refresh (for example: N3DS), the clock still continues at least in my opinion. Although, Scorpion might change things.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

PS4 Pro doesn't feel like a refresh or new console at all. It's just an alternate option and the improvements look incremental rather than a true game changer. It really seems more like a stopgap until the PS5 comes out. I don't think I'd be too fussed if that was in the next 3 years or so.

We'll have to see for Scorpio but don't know enough about it.

 

[randome]

That's a good question and one I have thought about before. If it doesn't reset the clock, then it makes me very hesitant to buy either one because the next set of systems will be released relatively soon after they come out.

 

[brandonh83]

I see it as a mid-gen update to play a little catch up and introduce 4k functionality. PS5/X2 won't be for another 3-4 years I'd wager.

 

[Primethius]

No.

 

[PROh1bited]

They're extending the clock, not resetting.

 

[Silvawuff]

They're not resetting the clock imo, but they are extending this gen -- and for good reason! I think we'll keep seeing gens get longer and longer until everything melts into a puddle Gainax ending style.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Yeah they are settling in for another lengthy generation, only this time providing some 'half time' hardware to make it less painful. I doubt we will see any true next gen consoles until at least 2020.

The PS5 is going to need to be about 12TF or so to be a significant boost over Scorpio. They aren't doing that on current tech (node process).

I think they will have to wait until AMD get's down to 7nm before they can make another big jump.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

No.
I don't know about MS but i was expecting PS5 around 2019\2020 any way .
For Sony i see this as a way for them to get some extra money and keep people in there eco systems .
For MS we have to see what happens with Scorpio.

 

[theWB27]

Uh...it's very easy to drop support. You just stop making PS4X1 the baseline and put Ps4ProScorpio Exclusive on the box. Didn't Bungie do that with Destiny?

From there you move on.

MS suddenly started caring for other regions that are not NA or UK?

They used to try and care.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

MS suddenly started caring for other regions that are not NA or UK?

 

[potatohead]

PS4 Pro is not a reset. It's a refresh though, but a continuation of what is happening with the success of PS4.

Scorpio on the other hand is trying to be a bit of a reset. They want to disrupt what is currently going on in the marketplace in terms of sales by releasing what seems like it will be an enthusiast product.

What will happen with these both releasing though is hard to say. PS4 Pro will have an easier time simply riding on the shoulders of the success of PS4. Scorpio will have a very difficult time differentiating itself from both Pro and older Xbone as a product to surmount the sales gap.

Both will be great products. Sales is only the difficult thing to predict.

 

[family_guy]

Uh...it's very easy to drop support. You just stop making PS4X1 the baseline and put Ps4ProScorpio Exclusive on the box. Didn't Bungie do that with Destiny?

From there you move on.

PS3 doesn't use the same disc as PS4 though. A PS4 Pro is still a PS4. Having PS4 Pro exclusive on the box would still create a big mess. Most people, especially parents who are oblivious, would just see PS4 and buy it anyway.

 

[laxu]

Microsoft's move to postpone the new console to next year seems smart to me as by then more powerful hardware that is cheap enough for a console should be available so they might just about be able to actually do 4K @ 30 fps.

The PS4 Pro is a bit weird because it seems to have a fair amount of compromises. The lack of a UHD Bluray player makes it less attractive as a non-gaming device and considering it won't do true 4K in anything but the simplest of games is a bummer. I'm on the fence whether to sell my PS4 and buy the Pro or keep the PS4. I already have a good gaming PC so my PS4 time has been very limited due to so many games being multiplatform.

As both MS and Sony consoles are now essentially just PC hardware running on a custom OS, they can simply keep improving their software and upgrading the hardware eventually without having to completely overhaul how programs are written for them etc.

 

[benny_a]

Sony doesn't want to reset.

Microsoft is desperate to reset.

 

[120v]

point is they aren't ready for a "reset". which is why these things aren't ps5/xb2

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Sony has made it clear, without room for interpretation that they are not resetting, that this is just another model of the PS4.

I dont know what MS's plan is and i would imagine its subject to change depending on how the market looks next year and the following years after that.

 

[Harmondale]

Based on the specs we heard about scorpio:

WHY does people consider that a midgen refresh?

Because isent that a bigger jump from xbone compared to 360-xbone techwise? I rather see it as a new gen with BC, nothing more nothing less

From 900p to 4k yep new gen

 

[jelly]

I don't think they are extending the generation just trying something different with better hardware instead of a slim strategy only but I feel Sony is likely to dump PS4 except for BC when PS5 comes out whereas Microsoft will still keep Scorpio around when Xbox 5 is out because they pushed the power of Scorpio higher so it will likely keep up with the successor while they drop Xbox One support except for BC. Neither platform is starting from scratch again behind the scenes but branding and support will still come and go.

 

[theWB27]

PS3 doesn't use the same disc as PS4 though. A PS4 Pro is still a PS4. Having PS4 Pro exclusive on the box would still create a big mess. Most people, especially parents who are oblivious, would just see PS4 and buy it anyway.

At that point it's their fault. If they(Sony/Micro) give the relevant information for consumers and they choose not to see what they're buying then what more do you want them to do? They can't force a customer to know what they're buying.

That's not a big mess.

Even if you buy digital. They could put a splash screen warning telling you this is PSPro exclusive. Press this button to proceed.

It's very easy actually.

Sony doesn't want to reset.

Microsoft is desperate to reset.

How is claiming everything will be forward compatible resetting? That's actually going forward with what the X1 started.

 

[Moongazer]

I would expect a PS console every 3 years now so PS5 in 2019 and PS5 Pro in 2022 etc...

As for MS I'm guessing they won't want to be left behind so Scorpio may not stay long in the market before the next MS console ships. I very much doubt MS will want to release their next flagship console after Sony.

 

[BigEmil]

Nope these are just simply mid-gen slight upgrades for enthusiastic gamers which should tide them till the next gen leap. (PS5, Xbox Two)

Well MS seems they're ditching generations so Scorpio may be that. But for Sony is merely a mid-gen upgrade to the current model PS4. So PS5 will be coming

 

[valkillmore]

Sony has said that the Pro is a response to the PC market. It's been three years since the beginning of the generation. Three years from now, how insane will PC cards be? What will graphics look like? I highly doubt that there won't be a new console from Sony and/or Microsoft by 2019.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yea I expect new systems in a few years.

 

[Ushay]

Sony wants to extend the cycle. MS wants to redefine it through hardware refreshes similar to mobile upgrades. The question is where is the cit off point for development?

Developers will evetually have to migrate to rxclusively develop for the newer tech at some point, but I agree there should not be a mass exodus at console 'generations' its both costly to both consumers and devs.

 

[AuthenticM]

I don't think so. The PS5 and the next Xbox are still coming out in 2019 or 2020.

 

[draliko]

If forward compatibility became the norm I do like the sony approach, new and more powerful hardware every 3 year is fine by me

 

[viHuGi]

Ps5 is 2020 I'm pretty sure they will make it to 2020 to bring a substantial upgrade and after the bash of 30fps this gen I'm pretty damn sure the CPU will be a major focus again along with a AMD High/Mid Tier GPU probably clocked at around 13gb or so.

 

[family_guy]

I don't think so. The PS5 and the next Xbox are still coming out in 2019 or 2020.

Which brings the question are they just iterative models or will they be tied to their predecessors?

 

[jdmonmou]

The pro is truly an iterative console. The time between announcement and release is very short and the Pro is not a giant leap over the PS4.

I think MS is pushing ahead to the next gen with the Scorpio even though they aren't saying it. It's a huge leap in power over the Xbox One and the time between announcement and release is over a year. That's a lot of time for MS to spend developing and marketing an "iterative console."

 

[jelly]

Sony wants to extend the cycle. MS wants to redefine it through hardware refreshes similar to mobile upgrades. The question is where is the cit off point for development?

Developers will evetually have to migrate to rxclusively develop for the newer tech at some point, but I agree there should not be a mass exodus at console 'generations' its both costly to both consumers and devs.

The development cut off point is interesting because while people think if Xbox One got dumped and Scorpio was a new gen, would games suddenly leap forward into being unachievable on previous hardware, I doubt it. The current consoles may struggle to push the best frame rates or detail sometimes but the basic framework can be done. We wouldn't suddenly get next gen super games with never seen before game play features and ideas only now that could be done.

 

[Chamber]

Based on the specs we heard about scorpio:

WHY does people consider that a midgen refresh?

Because isent that a bigger jump from xbone compared to 360-xbone techwise? I rather see it as a new gen with BC, nothing more nothing less

From 900p to 4k yep new gen

Because Microsoft's description of Scorpio sounds the same as PS4 Pro. It's going to play XB1 games at higher resolutions and with better fidelity. I'm not sure why folks are pretending they've been ambiguous about this.

 

[Blanquito]

I could see a new Sony device every 3 years. Ps4 - pro - ps5 - pro - etc. It's a good cadence to get into, gives AMD time to make good improvements to components at a good price, and so on.

Why would you release a pro version, with one of the officially stated goals to keep people from leaving your ecosystem for PC, to just then not release anything for another 6 years and lose that audience you just fought so hard to keep? Makes no sense whatsoever. So every 3 years or so we'll be seeing new PS hardware.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The Pro was always sold as an incremental improvement to the current PS4 as an optional iterative unit. It was never billed as a brand new console,and nobody should have thought of it in that manner

Furthermore,devs are able to use the Pro's power however they want. With checkerboard rendering, with better graphics, with potentially higher FPS at any resolution a minimum of 1080p.

Just because some implementations of checkerboard rendering aren't all that impressive, basically means devs should probably be refining their checkerboard technique, or rendering at a lower resolution and focusing on fidelity there.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Which brings the question are they just iterative models or will they be tied to their predecessors?

MS seems pretty clearly intent on ending the generation cycle. It would be crazy for Sony not to follow, since being able to keep all your old games will be a pretty huge deal. If PS5 and XTwo come along and MS says your old shit is still playable and Sony says it's reset time, there will be a lot of people not happy with Sony.

 

[Jakartalado]

Interesting times.

Pro isn't a reset, Scorpio might be.

And in terms of value, I think Sony will be better than Microsoft.

We are going to have the same game, but with Sony always among the best competitive price.

Xbox One <<< PS4 <<< PS4 Pro <<< Scorpio

Problem is, we don't know what Scorpio is and Microsoft knows how to promote the console. We know what Pro is and Sony is messing with their original message of delivering the same game with better image quality.

 

[Inuhanyou]

MS seems pretty clearly intent on ending the generation cycle. It would be crazy for Sony not to follow, since being able to keep all your old games will be a pretty huge deal. If PS5 and XTwo come along and MS says your old shit is still playable and Sony says it's reset time, there will be a lot of people not happy with Sony.

That makes no sense. Having full backwards compatibility with your PS4 and Pro compatible titles(which i'm sure PS5 will have) is the only thing that is necessary to carry over your old ecosystem and games. Forwards compatibility, like what MS wants to do, has nothing to do with that and generally only discourages devs from making more ambitious games with the hardware provided.

Sony don't have to end generational cycles and follow MS. they would actually be smart not to do so, because they already have 40+ million customers locked into PS4, and all they need to bring that userbase over is to allow all the current libraries and games they have to carry over to the new unit via BC.

 

[get2sammyb]

No, they're refreshing it half-way through. Refreshing is different to resetting.

 

[jdmonmou]

I could see a new Sony device every 3 years. Ps4 - pro - ps5 - pro - etc. It's a good cadence to get into, gives AMD time to make good improvements to components at a good price, and so on.

Why would you release a pro version, with one of the officially stated goals to keep people from leaving your ecosystem for PC, to just then not release anything for another 6 years and lose that audience you just fought so hard to keep? Makes no sense whatsoever. So every 3 years or so we'll be seeing new PS hardware.

Not a big fan of having Sony release consoles like clockwork once every 3 years. But I think I could be persuaded otherwise if it enables the base model to be supported for ~8 years like we had last gen without developers releasing poorly optimized titles.

I just think releasing consoles more frequently will do more harm than good for both MS and Sony as consumers get fatigued with constantly feeling the pressure to upgrade.

Sony is going about winning the PC gamer over the wrong way. They should focus on building up their exclusive 1st party content rather than trying to constantly refresh the hardware.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I say again: any argument pitched as pro developers for perpetually iterative units intent on ending generational cycles are anti dev, as you are perpetually limiting what more ambitious devs want to do, and turning the console environment into a PC environment with none of the traditional advantages of console development.

Having a PS5 that developers can opt to make full games for and take full advantage of, while still allowing PS4 and NEO game developers to make games for those systems with full BC being provided for PS5 for these titles is the best route to take.

You cant force developers to perpetually make games to run on this weaker hardware nor can you force developers to just focus on the latest and greatest(the latter Sony and MS have never done in the first place)

Ps5 is 2020 I'm pretty sure they will make it to 2020 to bring a substantial upgrade and after the bash of 30fps this gen I'm pretty damn sure the CPU will be a major focus again along with a AMD High/Mid Tier GPU probably clocked at around 13gb or so.

Many developers will still target 30fps on fixed hardware regardless of the power in the units, just to get the most they can out of them.

Sony is going about winning the PC gamer over the wrong way. They should focus on building up their exclusive 1st party content rather than trying to constantly refresh the hardware.

They can do both.

 

[MuchoMalo]

They replaced the clock with a fancier one.

 

[CorrisD]

It's a mid generation refresh, nothing more it seems, it allows them to sell a new console without actually having to create a whole new console from scratch.

MS seems pretty clearly intent on ending the generation cycle. It would be crazy for Sony not to follow, since being able to keep all your old games will be a pretty huge deal. If PS5 and XTwo come along and MS says your old shit is still playable and Sony says it's reset time, there will be a lot of people not happy with Sony.

Your old games will no doubt be playable on future PlayStations and Xboxes, I don't doubt that, that isn't what they are doing. Microsoft especially have talked about not leaving anyone behind, every Scorpio game will just be a souped up Xbox One game, the same as it is for the PS Pro.

Based on the specs we heard about scorpio:

WHY does people consider that a midgen refresh?

Because isent that a bigger jump from xbone compared to 360-xbone techwise? I rather see it as a new gen with BC, nothing more nothing less

From 900p to 4k yep new gen

Because that's how Microsoft has advertised it, as confusing as their messaging has been. Xbox One as the base line, every game has to be playable on it, Scorpio is getting no exclusive games, features maybe, but no games. If anything it's the opposite, they seemingly want to move away from generations and be more like a PC where the X1 is your low settings and your Scorpio is high.

 

[Zedox]

Reset of the generation: No.
Mid-Generation Upgrade: Yes.
Marketing reset: Yes.
Are they doing the same thing: Yes.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Is the NX a clock????

 

[barneystuta83]

I don't think so, no.

As the OG PS4 and Xbox One will still work with everything going forwards, at least for the foreseeable future, devs won't be able to max out the potential of these consoles.

We are 'just' getting more stability in framerate and/or improved resolution. At this stage, they've been clear there won't be any extra graphical effects in games.

 

[jdmonmou]

They can do both.

Of course they are doing both, but whatever resources Sony is spending on developing the Pro could've been used to develop one or two more 1st party exclusives. Exclusive content is a more compelling reason than marginally better hardware for people to buy your console. It's not an effective use of resources by Sony and their first party exclusive lineup has steadily declined over the years.

 

[SMD]

Don't see any more resetting. From now on, PS4 and Xbox One games should be compatible with future machines, it's just a case of when Sony and Microsoft cut support for the bottom rung. I don't think there'll be any massive jumps any more, I mean where do you even go after 4K? It'll be higher fidelity, better effects and more going on while you're playing.
So now Sony and Microsoft are going to be locked in this endless refresh cycle until one taps out. The PS5 and Xbox Whatever will come next, the Xbox One is probably the most likely to be discontinued when the Xbox Scorpio Pro S comes out, whereas Sony might try and keep the PS4 going until the PS5 Pro.

It'll be like phones, I guess. Jump on when it makes sense for you.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Never mind

 

[Blanquito]

Not a big fan of having Sony release consoles like clockwork once every 3 years. But I think I could be persuaded otherwise if it enables the base model to be supported for ~8 years like we had last gen without developers releasing poorly optimized titles.

I just think releasing consoles more frequently will do more harm than good for both MS and Sony as consumers get fatigued with constantly feeling the pressure to upgrade.

Sony is going about winning the PC gamer over the wrong way. They should focus on building up their exclusive 1st party content rather than trying to constantly refresh the hardware.

You misunderstand. They're not trying to win the PC gamer. That's not what was said by House. They're trying to keep the people who may move from console to PC to stay in the console system.

As far as "customers feeling fatigued", do customers feel fatigued when a new iPhone is released every year? The record sales tell me they aren't. And even if some of them are, just like the iPhone the ps4 will still be supported for at least a normal console generation.