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[Skittzo0413]

I respectfully disagree.

It is true what you say about the 3DS.
But the actual issue was a totallu different one.

There is, and has been, very little Nintendo could do to gain core audience over the last ~10 years, i.e. during the Wii and WiiU era, with the huge shift to the West of the market.

I don't think we can classify as a serious attempt at regaining the core audience a bunch of late ports and some more or less obscure Platinum games (barring a vocal minority on GAF, Bayonetta means nothing to the masses in a CoD/GTA/AssCreed era we live in).
And Ubi support, while offering simultaneous ports more or less on par (they deserve credit for that), wasn't going to do a lot mostly due to the lower specs.

Maybe, had the EA partnership actually come to life...


I think they have a point with Wii Sports (not Resort!), while it is undoubtely one hell of a killer app, it was nothing more than a big tech demo compared to, say Nintendogs.

You may be right that it wasn't a serious attempt but it's been well documented that it was an attempt to do so. This was even the stated reason for having so little first party software at launch- they wanted third party software to thrive and be a big draw for the core audience. Again, this was clearly a terrible decision but unless they blatantly lied in several presentations and interviews (which is certainly possible) it was nonetheless their intention to try to regain the core audience.

I do doubt that they thought it would be all that successful, but I really don't think they could've predicted how massively terrible it turned out. They were hoping that the Wii brand would carry over casuals which would increase the install base, getting them more third party games and sales, but virtually none of that happened.

Then, left without much of any first party software the Wii U died pretty much instantly.

So maybe I'll agree that it was a half-assed attempt to regain the core audience, but I do think it still was an attempt.

Edit:

I think you guys are expecting a bit too much of Game Freak. Sun/Moon is poised to be printing money, so I doubt that the later Pokémon are really that toxic to the franchise. And even then, Game Freak has been doing more than enough Gen 1 pandering with Gen 6 & now with the Alolan Forms in Gen 7.

I'm speaking purely about the casual/mainstream audience who typically wouldn't be interested in dedicated hardware. Pokemon GO has given the 3DS some sales spikes so hopefully you're right that Sun and Moon will benefit hugely from that, but if Nintendo's goal with mobile is to convert as many smartphone users to their dedicated hardware I think something more in the vein of Pokemon GO (as in, gen 1 at least at first) has much more nostalgia power and recognition than if they were to introduce all 7 gens at once.

I know it's anecdotal, but plenty of my friends say the day Niantic adds anything after gen 1 is the day they stop playing, and that seems to be a fairly common sentiment based on some posts here too like that of KAL2006. Although if Nintendo's stated goal of converting mobile gamers doesn't really pan out at all then there really would be no point in pandering to gen 1.

 

[10k]

I have a question. If the NX is exactly what reports suggest it is; a powerful handheld that can dock to a TV, who's the target audience?

Chatting with some insiders in private has lead me to believe that despite that MCV report, Nintendo internally is struggling with the price of this thing. Our own guesses were $250.

I think they can get away with this price because the software and exclusives will be there day one unlike the 3DS. Its a good mass market price as demonstrated by the Wii.

So, who does the NX target?

The 15-45 crowd? They play mostly on PS4/XB1/PC. Is the NX aiming to take a piece of that core gamer pie?

The lost Wii and DS audience? Will they ever come back? They seem to be the people that game on smartphones and are used to spending less than a $1 on games or f2p. You think they'll buy $40-60 games for a handheld device?

Do they target the hardcore Nintendo audience? That number shrinks each gen and is likely lower than 10m if you go by Wii U sales.

How many hardcore Nintendo fans bought a 3DS but not a Wii U?

Do they try to go for the people who haven't upgraded to PS4 and XB1 yet?

Do they hope the 75m or so people who bought a Wii U and 3DS upgrade to NX and will they be happy with say, 50-60m install base over 5-7 years?

Are they hoping to be an alternative to gaming where they lack the AAA third parties but get Nintendo console and handheld games combined with what you mostly saw on the 3DS?

Nintendo's marketing department has a lot of work to do.

 

[Manoko]

I have a question. If the NX is exactly what reports suggest it is; a powerful handheld that can dock to a TV, who's the target audience?

Chatting with some insiders in private has lead me to believe that despite that MCV report, Nintendo internally is struggling with the price of this thing. Our own guesses were $250.

I think they can get away with this price because the software and exclusives will be there day one unlike the 3DS. Its a good mass market price as demonstrated by the Wii.

So, who does the NX target?

The 15-45 crowd? They play mostly on PS4/XB1/PC. Is the NX aiming to take a piece of that core gamer pie?

The lost Wii and DS audience? Will they ever come back? They seem to be the people that game on smartphones and are used to spending less than a $1 on games or f2p. You think they'll buy $40-60 games for a handheld device?

Do they target the hardcore Nintendo audience? That number shrinks each gen and is likely lower than 10m if you go by Wii U sales.

How many hardcore Nintendo fans bought a 3DS but not a Wii U?

Do they try to go for the people who haven't upgraded to PS4 and XB1 yet?

Do they hope the 75m or so people who bought a Wii U and 3DS upgrade to NX and will they be happy with say, 50-60m install base over 5-7 years?

Are they hoping to be an alternative to gaming where they lack the AAA third parties but get Nintendo console and handheld games combined with what you mostly saw on the 3DS?

Nintendo's marketing department has a lot of work to do.

It honestly targets no one completely in my opinion.
Which is why, if these leaks are true, Nintendo is struggling to find a clear way to market this thing and why they are taking so much time before revealing it to start building hype and anticipation ahead of release.

NX skipping E3 was already pretty surprising, and worrying in my opinion.
If they had something they were 100% sure would be popular among gamers, they'd have won E3 with BotW + NX and everyone would still be talking about the launch lineup or the NX in general.

I can't understand why Nintendo would be so tight-lipped about it for so long, the only explanation to me is "something has gone wrong", or very early consumer feedback (from people under NDA) has been pretty negative, more so than they imagined.

 

[Vanillalite]

If I had to measure GAFs thirst level for real NX news it's way past needing to call a cab and into we might not let you back into this establishment next time territory! LoL

 

[sandkiller]

Any idea why it says "upcoming event" in this offline live stream from Nintendo france? Is that normal to say?

https://m.youtube.com/user/NintendoFR/live

 

[Dark Cloud]

Any idea why it says "upcoming event" in this offline live stream from Nintendo france? Is that normal to say?

https://m.youtube.com/user/NintendoFR/live

It says can't open page when I click on it.

I'm sorry I can't get hyped or excited. Every time you think something NX may be coming it turns out not to be at all.

 

[Malakai]

Hmmm...

This kind of half-assed mentality Nintendo has been having on hardware these past few generations (3D on the 3DS, wonky motion control on the Wii (initially), tablet like gaming controller on the Wii U) fits exactly the Eurogamer rumors: a half-assed handheld/console device which seem to truly belong neither in the living room, nor on the go.

Whatever the NX is it is already "half-assed" to you. You are being quite disingenuous. You were truly unbiased you would have had written that in a quite different tone. I'm sick of the negatively thrown at Nintendo.

By the way, it's easy to avoid over-heating and other engineering problems when your hardware is a few generations behind.

It is nice when customers don't have to repurchase $300 to $600 hardware due to multi-billion dollar corporations cannot get it right the first time. But, I guest specs will always win out at the end of the day.

 

[BY2K]

The YouTube page does say Nintendo France is currently streaming but you can't access it, wth.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Any idea why it says "upcoming event" in this offline live stream from Nintendo france? Is that normal to say?

https://m.youtube.com/user/NintendoFR/live

It just says offline when I looked

 

[Kyzer]

Chatting with some insiders in private has lead me to believe

Its pretty fucked up of you to constantly be leaking the things your insiders tell you that are under NDA and threaten their job, and they obviously shouldn't be talking about. If its even true. Id have to question what kind of insider would keep talking to you. Random Nintendo rep without much to lose, therefore very unlikely they know much? Or someone who actually knows things and is somehow dumb enough to just casually talk to you about it and you feel comfortable posting about it everywhere you want

Anyways, to your question, a price point does not a target demographic make. We don't know until we know the kinds of games coming out for the system.

 

[10k]

It honestly targets no one completely in my opinion.
Which is why, if these leaks are true, Nintendo is struggling to find a clear way to market this thing and why they are taking so much time before revealing it to start building hype and anticipation ahead of release.

NX skipping E3 was already pretty surprising, and worrying in my opinion.
If they had something they were 100% sure would be popular among gamers, they'd have won E3 with BotW + NX and everyone would still be talking about the launch lineup or the NX in general.

I can't understand why Nintendo would be so tight-lipped about it for so long, the only explanation to me is "something has gone wrong", or very early consumer feedback (from people under NDA) has been pretty negative, more so than they imagined.

Yup. I think the struggle on how to market this thing most effectively is delaying the reveal.

Maybe they try to get a piece of all those audiences. Create a new one, or just want the same 3DS owners to come over (since I doubt anyone who has a Wii U doesn't have a 3DS)

Maybe Nintendo is comfortable with the same 60m core users each gen as long as the hardware is profitable and the attach rates are high.

 

[BY2K]

Okay apparently Nintendo France showing "LIVE" is an issue that's been there for a while.

 

[Nightbird]

Okay apparently Nintendo France showing "LIVE" is an issue that's been there for a while.

Thats weird

 

[Skittzo0413]

I have a question. If the NX is exactly what reports suggest it is; a powerful handheld that can dock to a TV, who's the target audience?

I think we can take Nintendo at their word here and see that the NX will be targeted at converting smartphone users. There is a weird difference between buying a mobile game on a phone versus a full price game on a dedicated device that I think most people don't have a problem with. I can't really explain it, I guess it's a difference in perceived value, but I don't think people have an issue with paying full price for full games. I mean, these people bought millions of Wii and DS games, so they have experienced the difference between $1-2 mobile games and full price console games.

Or maybe they have been conditioned to reject those expensive games. I guess we'll find out. But to answer your question, I believe first and foremost they are targeting Nintendo fans and mobile users.

It honestly targets no one completely in my opinion.
Which is why, if these leaks are true, Nintendo is struggling to find a clear way to market this thing and why they are taking so much time before revealing it to start building hype and anticipation ahead of release.

NX skipping E3 was already pretty surprising, and worrying in my opinion.
If they had something they were 100% sure would be popular among gamers, they'd have won E3 with BotW + NX and everyone would still be talking about the launch lineup or the NX in general.

I can't understand why Nintendo would be so tight-lipped about it for so long, the only explanation to me is "something has gone wrong", or very early consumer feedback (from people under NDA) has been pretty negative, more so than they imagined.

I really wouldn't be so worried about their silence. They gain nothing by announcing before they're ready. There's no way they don't have a marketing message all ready to go- I would assume they are currently working on getting game footage and preparing their post-reveal marketing plan (i.e. demo stations in malls for the holidays).

As history has shown, when Nintendo reveals hardware too far in advance it typically does not do so well. I don't know if that's a correlation, but it should give them a reason to reveal it closer to the launch date. Nothing we've heard or seen has indicated that there is any sort of internal issue or delay, besides I suppose John Harker indicating that he thought the reveal might be before TGS.

 

[Clessidor]

I have a question. If the NX is exactly what reports suggest it is; a powerful handheld that can dock to a TV, who's the target audience?

In core Nintendos target audience is the general public. Or basicly everyone, I think.

To be more specific they definitively will try to target customers who wants more than just to enjoy mobile games, but also who wants a different experience then Microsoft and Sony can offer. Basicly I think they want to sell a small console which people can enjoy besides the big ones.
And I guess that is their target audience. Basicly they want their own space on the marcet like they always want it.

 

[Hermii]

Yup. I think the struggle on how to market this thing most effectively is delaying the reveal.

Maybe they try to get a piece of all those audiences. Create a new one, or just want the same 3DS owners to come over (since I doubt anyone who has a Wii U doesn't have a 3DS)

Maybe Nintendo is comfortable with the same 60m core users each gen as long as the hardware is profitable and the attach rates are high.

For one they have no competitors in the dedicated handheld space except the 3ds, so they are probably targeting dedicated handheld fans. Also they are targeting Nintendo fans as the NX is the only way to play new Nintendo games. In that regard I think the 3ds was the Wii Us biggest competitor. Few wanted to buy a new system to play 3d world, when they could play 3d land on a cheaper system that they already own. You could say the same about most of their franchises.

 

[Turrican3]

You may be right that it wasn't a serious attempt but it's been well documented that it was an attempt to do so. This was even the stated reason for having so little first party software at launch- they wanted third party software to thrive and be a big draw for the core audience.

Yeah I do remember lots of talks by the late Iwata about the third parties issue, but not specifically the "core" thing though.

This would match what was stated here a couple of years ago:

Nintendo was pitching the Wii U as an easy machine to bring publishers core franchises to that sold millions on Xbox and PS3 to an audience who had not played those franchises before. [...]

Hardly a core push (at least initially), if you ask me. *shrughs*

 

[Vanillalite]

 

[Guevara]

I have a question. If the NX is exactly what reports suggest it is; a powerful handheld that can dock to a TV, who's the target audience?

...

Nintendo's marketing department has a lot of work to do.

To me, the rumors suggest a "worst of both worlds" approach:

$250 is too expensive for a handheld. Just look at the 3DS, the Vita, etc. But by the same token, at $250 it's going to be another underpowered Nintendo home console.

How do you price games? $60 is fine for a home console title like Zelda, but not for handheld games, especially in light of smartphone competition. There will need to be a wide range of price tiers, probably everything from $.99 mobile ports up to $60 Nintendo flagship titles.

It's going to be hard to value what each game should cost. Let's say the NX gets the latest sports titles from EA, etc.; are those $60 "home console" versions? or are they $40 "portable" versions? There's going to be a wide gulf between the NX and PS4+ versions, so how much effort do you put into these titles if you are a third-party?

 

[burst]

I have a question. If the NX is exactly what reports suggest it is; a powerful handheld that can dock to a TV, who's the target audience?

Chatting with some insiders in private has lead me to believe that despite that MCV report, Nintendo internally is struggling with the price of this thing. Our own guesses were $250.

I think they can get away with this price because the software and exclusives will be there day one unlike the 3DS. Its a good mass market price as demonstrated by the Wii.

So, who does the NX target?

The 15-45 crowd? They play mostly on PS4/XB1/PC. Is the NX aiming to take a piece of that core gamer pie?

The lost Wii and DS audience? Will they ever come back? They seem to be the people that game on smartphones and are used to spending less than a $1 on games or f2p. You think they'll buy $40-60 games for a handheld device?

Do they target the hardcore Nintendo audience? That number shrinks each gen and is likely lower than 10m if you go by Wii U sales.

How many hardcore Nintendo fans bought a 3DS but not a Wii U?

Do they try to go for the people who haven't upgraded to PS4 and XB1 yet?

Do they hope the 75m or so people who bought a Wii U and 3DS upgrade to NX and will they be happy with say, 50-60m install base over 5-7 years?

Are they hoping to be an alternative to gaming where they lack the AAA third parties but get Nintendo console and handheld games combined with what you mostly saw on the 3DS?

Nintendo's marketing department has a lot of work to do.

They will target kids and and Tweens. Everyone else is catered for.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Yeah I do remember lots of talks by the late Iwata about the third parties issue, but not specifically the "core" thing though.

This would match what was stated here a couple of years ago:



Hardly a core push (at least initially), if you ask me. *shroughs*

Again, I'm not claiming it was well executed, just that it was their intent. That post by John Harker seems to line up with what I'm saying too, and how I've viewed the Wii U failure overall.

Edit: reading his quote again I see what you're trying to say. Nintendo wasn't expressly pushing for the core audience to "return" to Nintendo hardware, rather they were pushing for their current Wii audience to buy "core" games and sort of fold into that core audience. I guess that makes sense, but I would think that having the core games is also an attempt at "regaining" their core audience. It's likely they had that goal on top of converting "casual" users to "core" games. Ugh I hate using those words.

With the NX Nintendo is attempting to position themselves as best as they possibly can in a world where market trends are getting almost impossible to predict. Regardless of who they are targeting, I think it's their best possible way forward.

 

[Manoko]

Whatever the NX is it is already "half-assed" to you. You are being quite disingenuous. You were truly unbiased you would have had written that in a quite different tone. I'm sick of the negatively thrown at Nintendo.




It is nice when customers don't have to repurchase $300 to $600 hardware due to multi-billion dollar corporations cannot get it right the first time. But, I guest specs will always win out at the end of the day.

You're sick of the negativity that Nintendo brought upon themselves by the way.
There is no way we can blindly trust Nintendo on delivering an interesting platform (whether it is hardware of software, where they have been lacking for so long now (online mostly)).

The most cautious approach to Nintendo as a hardware company is pessimism now, and people being overly optimistic because of the nostalgic attachment they have to Nintendo are doing a great disservice to every other gamer who'd love for Nintendo to go back to its glory days, the days where their core audience were gamers, not their grandmother or distant relative who has never played a game before.

I love Nintendo from the NES/SNES, N64, Gamecube era.
Even the handheld were awesome, the GB, the GBA, the DS.

All of these were made and marketed for gamers. Then the Wii happened, and this "happy accident" made Nintendo care more about this new market which would buy any shovelware you'd feed them, given it had an interesting gimmick (motion controls) attached to it. This is Wii Fit, this is Wii Sports, this is Wii Music, this is most of the Ubisoft games you saw initially on the Wii being objectively bad games.

Nintendo needs to gain the trust of their fans back. Not on software, but on hardware.
People who would once again settle for a gaming console that would hit all audiences but completely satisfy none are the fuel behind the creation of the Wii, or the Wii U.

 

[Manoko]

Sorry for the double post, thought I was editing.

 

[BD1]

The most cautious approach to Nintendo as a hardware company is pessimism now, and people being overly optimistic because of the nostalgic attachment they have to Nintendo are doing a great disservice to every other gamer who'd love for Nintendo to go back to its glory days, the days where their core audience were gamers, not their grandmother or distant relative who has never played a game before.

No, I would say the most cautious approach to Nintendo is to realize that they are Nintendo and they do not cater to you. You literally have two behemoths offering you two (almost identical) choices and Nintendo, who has very plainly and honestly for over decade, offered an alternative to that. How anyone can have such out of whack expectations of Nintendo hardware that they would be pessimistic, in 2016, is insane to me.

 

[Hilarion]

You're sick of the negativity that Nintendo brought upon themselves by the way.
There is no way we can blindly trust Nintendo on delivering an interesting platform (whether it is hardware of software, where they have been lacking for so long now (online mostly)).

The most cautious approach to Nintendo as a hardware company is pessimism now, and people being overly optimistic because of the nostalgic attachment they have to Nintendo are doing a great disservice to every other gamer who'd love for Nintendo to go back to its glory days, the days where their core audience were gamers, not their grandmother or distant relative who has never played a game before.

I love Nintendo from the NES/SNES, N64, Gamecube era.
Even the handheld were awesome, the GB, the GBA, the DS.

All of these were made and marketed for gamers. Then the Wii happened, and this "happy accident" made Nintendo care more about this new market which would buy any shovelware you'd feed them, given it had an interesting gimmick (motion controls) attached to it. This is Wii Fit, this is Wii Sports, this is Wii Music, this is most of the Ubisoft games you saw initially on the Wii being objectively bad games.

Nintendo needs to gain the trust of their fans back. Not on software, but on hardware.
People who would once again settle for a gaming console that would hit all audiences but completely satisfy none are the fuel behind the creation of the Wii, or the Wii U.

Wii Fit and Wii Sports were better software than most of Nintendo's first party ventures in earlier eras, though. Wii Fit was a fantastic union of the gaming and real life spheres to encourage physical activity towards real life goals with fun, interactive rewards and challenges. Brain Age likewise, except with mental challenges. Brain Age falling to the wayside is one of my biggest regrets with the 3DS.

I'd take Nintendo's Wii/DS first party efforts over their SNES/N64/Gamecube libraries any day. Wii Fit is a better video gamethan Super Metroid or Link to the Past or whatever.

 

[Turrican3]

I love Nintendo from the NES/SNES, N64, Gamecube era.
Even the handheld were awesome, the GB, the GBA, the DS.

All of these were made and marketed for gamers.

There was *a lot* of shovelware on the DS as well, and the machine had its load of casual market push that is not even funny.

Wii itself was also home of some of the best Nintendo "core" games ever.

 

[Manoko]

No, I would say the most cautious approach to Nintendo is to realize that they are Nintendo and they do not cater to you. You literally have two behemoths offering you two (almost identical) choices and Nintendo, who has very plainly and honestly for over decade, offered an alternative to that. How anyone can have such out of whack expectations of Nintendo hardware that they would be pessimistic, in 2016, is insane to me.

It wasn't always this way.
And when it wasn't (N64 for example, or Gamecube), the first-party games were awesome to play, no gimmicks, no bullsh*t motion controls working most of the time, just pure fun and depth to their games.

When you have to use motion controls to swing the sword in Skyward Sword, even if it works 98% of the time, it's still a far worse approach than the button pressing with 100% does what you input.

 

[Manoko]

I'd take Nintendo's Wii/DS first party efforts over their SNES/N64/Gamecube libraries any day. Wii Fit is a better video gamethan Super Metroid or Link to the Past or whatever.

Well then...
We strongly disagree.

There was *a lot* of shovelware on the DS as well, and the machine had its load of casual market push that is not even funny.

Wii itself was also home of some of the best Nintendo "core" games ever.

But it was far from being as overwhelming as the Wii in my opinion.

And I agree with Wii have some of the best core games from Nintendo, but once again, do we really need some type of motion controls in Super Mario Galaxy ?
I think the game would have been better without them, but as with Nintendo and their gimmicks: you have to include it in the game, even if pressing a button made more sense and was more reliable.

 

[Retrobox]

It wasn't always this way.
And when it wasn't (N64 for example, or Gamecube), the first-party games were awesome to play, no gimmicks, no bullsh*t motion controls working most of the time, just pure fun and depth to their games.

When you have to use motion controls to swing the sword in Skyward Sword, even if it works 98% of the time, it's still a far worse approach than the button pressing with 100% does what you input.

At this point, it's pretty obvious you should direct your disdain towards people who didn't buy the gamecube but who DID buy the Wii.

Nintendo is merely a business. They are of course not going to make another "pure" console after the gamecube lost and they are of course going to try to have another Wii happening after the previous one sold so well.

 

[Turrican3]

just pure fun and depth to their games.

So nothing actually changed?

When you have to use motion controls to swing the sword in Skyward Sword, even if it works 98% of the time, it's still a far worse approach than the button pressing with 100% does what you input.

I'd argue It isn't, if it allows you to do things you weren't able to do before.

Have you ever played something similar to Wii Sports Resort table tennis with a traditional controller? And let's not even start talking about what was made possible by the IR pointer.

 

[Taker666]

To me, the rumors suggest a "worst of both worlds" approach:

$250 is too expensive for a handheld. Just look at the 3DS, the Vita, etc. But by the same token, at $250 it's going to be another underpowered Nintendo home console.

How do you price games? $60 is fine for a home console title like Zelda, but not for handheld games, especially in light of smartphone competition. There will need to be a wide range of price tiers, probably everything from $.99 mobile ports up to $60 Nintendo flagship titles.

It's going to be hard to value what each game should cost. Let's say the NX gets the latest sports titles from EA, etc.; are those $60 "home console" versions? or are they $40 "portable" versions? There's going to be a wide gulf between the NX and PS4+ versions, so how much effort do you put into these titles if you are a third-party?

That's always been my thinking.

The only way I can see a hybrid being a success is if it launches at $199 or less. Handheld gamers won't pay more than that...and home console gamers won't feel too ripped off at that price for an underpowered machine.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I guess we can call it a wrap for this week.

 

[Donniewahlberg]

No, I would say the most cautious approach to Nintendo is to realize that they are Nintendo and they do not cater to you. You literally have two behemoths offering you two (almost identical) choices and Nintendo, who has very plainly and honestly for over decade, offered an alternative to that. How anyone can have such out of whack expectations of Nintendo hardware that they would be pessimistic, in 2016, is insane to me.

I think everyone's cautious approach is going to differ right, because we all have different standards and what we want form a device in general. So I don't think it's quite insane, dude clearly wants Nintendo games but doesn't like how they do hardware anymore, I can understand that to an extent. However, personally, I love this post. I love the approach Nintendo make, both with hardware and software, and the cautious approach for myself, especially in light of the Eurogamer report, is that I'll like the hardware. Not being cautious is how much I'll end up liking it.

 

[Flare]

I honestly thought they were going to announce their reveal event this week (still 2 days left). But if not, guess we're gonna have to wait for October.

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

I guess we can call it a wrap for this week.

Indeed. I've been resigned to the fact that it will be October for a while so it has made me less anxious about checking GAF everyday. Whenever it happens it happens.

 

[Manoko]

At this point, it's pretty obvious you should direct your disdain towards people who didn't buy the gamecube but who DID buy the Wii.

Nintendo is merely a business. They are of course not going to make another "pure" console after the gamecube lost and they are of course going to try to have another Wii happening after the previous one sold so well.

It's indeed sad to think about this.
That's why I said the "happy accident" of the Wii, selling so much, is scary for Nintendo and who they want to make consoles/games for nowadays.

So nothing actually changed?


I'd argue It isn't, if it allows you to do things you weren't able to do before.

Have you ever played something similar to Wii Sports Resort table tennis with a traditional controller? And let's not even start talking about what was made possible by the IR pointer.

It has its advantages I agree.
Although you have to remember: the original Wii wasn't launch with Wii Motion Plus. The motion controls in the original wiimote are pretty bad, and thus couldn't allow for precision like the Wii motion Plus offered, much later.

Just look at Twilight Princess on Wii.
Instead of pressing a button like on the GC version to swing the sword, you have to aimlessly shake your controller any way you want to (doesn't matter in the slightest) for Link to swing his sword.

How can someone defend something like this ?
It makes no sense, and this is exactly my point when I say that Nintendo is so stubborn about their gimmick and innovation, they get stuck in them even when it would make much more sense to simply skip them.

 

[BD1]

It wasn't always this way.
And when it wasn't (N64 for example, or Gamecube), the first-party games were awesome to play, no gimmicks, no bullsh*t motion controls working most of the time, just pure fun and depth to their games.

When you have to use motion controls to swing the sword in Skyward Sword, even if it works 98% of the time, it's still a far worse approach than the button pressing with 100% does what you input.

So you're just nostalgic for the Nintendo of the 90s, and you're pissed that they don't approach the market that way anymore? As I said, how you can be pessimistic about a company that has not approached hardware design in the way you want for two generations? It's not brought upon by Nintendo, as you say, it's brought upon by you.

Every Nintendo executive for a decade has said that "blue ocean strategy" is their fundamental philosophy and yet people are still angry when they don't get the triplet from Kyoto.

 

[Turrican3]

Edit: reading his quote again I see what you're trying to say. Nintendo wasn't expressly pushing for the core audience to "return" to Nintendo hardware, rather they were pushing for their current Wii audience to buy "core" games and sort of fold into that core audience.

Exactly!
Or, at least according to Mr. Harker's quote, that seems to align nicely with what Nintendo did.

Sorry if I was unable to better convey my point, English isn't my native language so I guess sometimes it's not that easy at a glance.

 

[Hilarion]

The Wiimote/Nunchuck combo was perhaps the most intuitive and easy to use controller ever. I love a controller you hold separately in each hand.

It doesn't have the vastly confusing array of inputs an XB1 controller or a PS4 controller or even the Wii U Gamepad has. Pointing is simple and intuitive. Sure, the Nunchuck's build quality is horrible and it feels cheap, and I'd hope that a theoretical return to motion controllers on the NX would replace the Nunchuck, but the Wiimote might be the first controller since the SNES one to feel intuitive and sensible to me.

I just can't go along with this idea that the Wii motion controls or controller setup was somehow bad. The Wii U not doing that is one of its great shortcomings, IMO.

Wii games certainly feel more fluid and elegant to control than Gamecube games did.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Indeed. I've been resigned to the fact that it will be October for a while so it has made me less anxious about checking GAF everyday. Whenever it happens it happens.

I'm becoming more numb, which is a good thing.

 

[Turrican3]

Although you have to remember: the original Wii wasn't launch with Wii Motion Plus.
[...]
Just look at Twilight Princess on Wii.
Instead of pressing a button like on the GC version to swing the sword, you have to aimlessly shake your controller any way you want to (doesn't matter in the slightest) for Link to swing his sword.

I see you point here, but personally speaking it didn't bother me *that* much thanks to the superb IR pointing features. To the point that I didn't enjoy the HD remaster released for WiiU, which unfortunately has no wiimote support at all. :-\

Generally speaking, I think most developers did a pretty good job at masking the inaccuracies of the waggle (ugh) by adequately mapping it. Mario Galaxy, RE4 and many more never felt "bad" to me, at least regarding the controls... heck, I'd argue control-wise RE4 Wii is the best version ever!

That doesn't mean of course that a refined wiimote2.0 couldn't improve on the original design, which is for the record what I hope they did for NX if the split controller rumours are true.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Exactly!
Or, at least according to Mr. Harker's quote, that seems to align nicely with what Nintendo did.

Sorry if I was unable to better convey my point, English isn't my native language so I guess sometimes it's not that easy at a glance.

No your English was fine, it was just a pretty minor distinction between "regaining" the core audience and "converting" their current audience to core games.

I see you point here, but personally speaking it didn't bother me *that* much thanks to the superb IR pointing features. To the point that I didn't enjoy the HD remaster released for WiiU, which unfortunately has no wiimote support at all. :-\

Generally speaking, I think most developers did a pretty good job at masking the inaccuracies of the waggle (ugh) by adequately mapping it. Mario Galaxy, RE4 and many more never felt "bad" to me, at least regarding the controls... heck, I'd argue control-wise RE4 Wii is the best version ever!

That doesn't mean of course that a refined wiimote2.0 couldn't improve on the original design, which is for the record what I hope they did for NX if the split controller rumours are true.

Yeah I sure am hoping the NX uses a split wiimote 2.0 scheme with improved motion sensing and IR pointing. Assuming that the controllers have all of the standard physical inputs (which they likely do, if BotW is launching on it) then that might end up being the best all around control scheme ever invented.

As long as it's ergonomic.

 

[21XX]

Whatever the NX is it is already "half-assed" to you. You are being quite disingenuous. You were truly unbiased you would have had written that in a quite different tone. I'm sick of the negatively thrown at Nintendo.




It is nice when customers don't have to repurchase $300 to $600 hardware due to multi-billion dollar corporations cannot get it right the first time. But, I guest specs will always win out at the end of the day.

Nintendo is not your friend. You don't need to big brother them. Nintendo's decisions in the past number of years have earned them criticism and some negativity.

 

[udivision]

That's always been my thinking.

The only way I can see a hybrid being a success is if it launches at $199 or less. Handheld gamers won't pay more than that...and home console gamers won't feel too ripped off at that price for an underpowered machine.

As far as our understanding is right now, the NX is somewhat of a contradiction. It's potential success will be hard to determine until we know more specifics.

But the general concept of a hybrid, and how it deals with both markets invites deserved skepticism.

 

[FlaygletheBagel]

So, who does the NX target?

...

Nintendo's marketing department has a lot of work to do.

The "no target audience" problem was exactly what happened with the Wii U. Who was the Wii U targeted to? Casual players? It shared the Wii brand so that seems at least partially likely. But casual players don't have a need for a $300+ dedicated game device when their smartphone or tablet gives them games and other productive tasks in one device.

So how about hardcore gamers? There are some "definitive edition" ports of hardcore AAA games on the Wii U from other platforms, and the device was priced competitively with Xbox and PS, so that could be it. But hardcore gamers are already too immersed in the PS/Xbox ecosystems and aren't going to pay $300-$350 to jump ship so they can play late multiplats on a platform with inferior online functionality and a clunky low-res tablet. So that's out too.

It sure makes it seem like Nintendo designed and manufactured a platform before even asking themselves who they were going to sell it to. I hope the NX doesn't suffer from the same problem, but I have my doubts.

My guess? Nintendo totally misreads the market again, the NX underperforms, and Nintendo sees huge success from mobile, so they drop dedicated game hardware altogether.

 

[Plinko]

Indeed. I've been resigned to the fact that it will be October for a while so it has made me less anxious about checking GAF everyday. Whenever it happens it happens.

1. Original rumor hits from Emily Rogers and Eurogamer (who most likely have the exact same source as the past has shown).

2. As a result, everyone expects September reveal.

3. Original source of rumor leak (Emily) tweets it will now be revealed in October.

4. Most people still cling to September reveal.

I guess I don't get the line of logic here.

 

[jmizzal]

Sony just had a confs and already has a date for their Dec PS experience, meanwhile at Nintendo we still have no clue when the NX reveal will be smh

 

[RobFox64tm]

1. Original rumor hits from Emily Rogers and Eurogamer (who most likely have the exact same source as the past has shown).

2. As a result, everyone expects September reveal.

3. Original source of rumor tweets it will now be revealed in October.

4. Most people still cling to September reveal.

I guess I don't get the line of logic here.

This is news to me. Do we even know for sure who this source is?

 

[Plinko]

This is news to me. Do we even know for sure who this source is?

Emily was one of the leakers. She reported on the EG rumor before they released the story. I'll edit for clarity.

 

[Anth0ny]

Sony just had a confs and already has a date for their Dec PS experience, meanwhile at Nintendo we still have no clue when the NX reveal will be smh

no you see nintendo is secretly genius because they're creating all of this excitement see