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[mhayze]

The dock isn't going to do shit other than provide power, charge the device, and have TV-out/ USB ports. Like the original 3DS dock but with ports.

Some gaming laptops cant run at full speed unless "docked" (i.e. plugged in to power) because of power draw - this is the simplest explanation of why it would be faster in the dock (as opposed to a separate SoC/cpu/gpu).

 

[OCD Guy]

That quote was still not very conclusive. Well, to some it is, i understand. But in reality, no it isn't. The dock might still Help in some way or another. Ofcourse its function is just to power / charge the handheld and connect to the tv. But with connecting to the tv it might help in some way. The quote said nothing about it not doing anything.
It's a bulky HDMI port otherwise. Why not put a HDMI out on the handheld, it allready has a stand.

We'll have to wait and see.

The only way I see the dock helping is active cooling.

In terms of hardware that increases processing power it's very unlikely. I think some people are under estimating how complex (and costly) it would be to implement what they are suggesting.

Different power states is not an unknown entity, EVERY cpu, gpu and SoC operates the same way, different frequencies depending on what the device is doing. Yes they can be overridden on pc, and android devices etc and forced to run at full frequency at all times.

The most logical explanation would be that any difference in performance is simply down to the Nvidia SoC reducing in frequency while the device is undocked. Two reasons I can think of, firstly to promote better battery life, and also the device itself will lower resolution output from 1080p to 720p.

There's been talk of that "delay" when docking, but that just looks like a resolution change, go change resolution on a ps4 for example and there's a brief black screen. Not to mention that you're technically connecting a device to your displays hdmi input, that's not instant. Go connect something via hdmi on your tv and tell me how quickly it appears, there's a brief delay due to the hdmi handshake.

 

[Always-honest]

The only way I see the dock helping is active cooling.

In terms of hardware that increases processing power it's very unlikely. I think some people are under estimating how complex (and costly) it would be to implement what they are suggesting.

Different power states is not an unknown entity, EVERY cpu, gpu and SoC operates the same way, different frequencies depending on what the device is doing. Yes they can be overridden on pc, and android devices etc.

The most logical explanation would be that any difference in performance is simply down to the Nvidia SoC reducing in frequency while the device is undocked. Two reasons I can think of, firstly to promote better battery life, and also the device itself will lower resolution output from 1080p to 720p.

There's been talk of that "delay" when docking, but that just looks like a resolution change, go change resolution on a ps4 for example and there's a brief black screen.

I agree.

 

[Cindro]

Any chance the joy cons have mini battery packs in them to help extend the life in portable mode? I'm really not sure how realistic that is with the controller size / the state of battery tech, but I don't think 3 hours will be easily accepted by the mainstream crowd.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I just hope we don't get a bunch of games that run janky undocked.

If it drops the resolution it should be fine... unless the engine is CPU bound.

 

[cyberheater]

I can see the tablet being down clocked and possibly parking GPU cores when running off battery for native 720p gaming on the go and then switch all GPU cores back on and run at the full clock speed when docked for 1080p gaming.

That's all thats going to happen.

 

[brochiller]

The only way I see the dock helping is active cooling.

In terms of hardware that increases processing power it's very unlikely. I think some people are under estimating how complex (and costly) it would be to implement what they are suggesting.

Different power states is not an unknown entity, EVERY cpu, gpu and SoC operates the same way, different frequencies depending on what the device is doing. Yes they can be overridden on pc, and android devices etc and forced to run at full frequency at all times.

The most logical explanation would be that any difference in performance is simply down to the Nvidia SoC reducing in frequency while the device is undocked. Two reasons I can think of, firstly to promote better battery life, and also the device itself will lower resolution output from 1080p to 720p.

There's been talk of that "delay" when docking, but that just looks like a resolution change, go change resolution on a ps4 for example and there's a brief black screen.

This is why I think the processor may be more powerful than a lot of people are expecting.

A lot of people are assuming this thing will have a processor equivalent to other tablets, but how many of those tablets can exist in a state where they are both actively cooled and can operate without regard for battery life? I think these freedoms open the doors for what might be possible with the Switch.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Any chance the joy cons have mini battery packs in them to help extend the life in portable mode? I'm really not sure how realistic that is with the controller size / the state of battery tech, but I don't think 3 hours will be easily accepted by the mainstream crowd.

It wouldn't be significant. Most of the time they would be a drain (recharging from the main battery).

 

[NEO0MJ]

Any chance the joy cons have mini battery packs in them to help extend the life in portable mode? I'm really not sure how realistic that is with the controller size / the state of battery tech, but I don't think 3 hours will be easily accepted by the mainstream crowd.

Considering the fact that they can be removed from the tablet and used separately no doubt they have their own batteries but I doubt it will do much for overall battery life.

 

[OCD Guy]

This is why I think the processor may be more powerful than a lot of people are expecting.

A lot of people are assuming this thing will have a processor equivalent to other tablets, but how many of those tablets can exist in a state where they are both actively cooled and can operate without regard for battery life? I think these freedoms open the doors for what might be possible with the Switch.

Yeah that I could see happening. There's no reason that the Switch could not contain an SoC that would not normally be appropriate for a mobile device due to battery and heat concerns.

So the solution is to downclock it while portable to reduce heat and increase battery life, and then with active cooling on the dock and where battery life and heat aren't an issue run at full speed.

People like you say are just assuming that because it's portable and they have to take those things into consideration i.e battery life and heat that the SoC is going to equal shitty tablet performance. The solution is absolutely putting more emphasis on different frequencys when docked and portable.

That's the reason tablets have "shitty" SoC's as manufacturers need to take into account heat, and battery life. If those weren't a concern we would have some damn incredible performance in tablets and phones, not that they're not good now but you know what I mean.

It does make me wonder about the Zelda footage. It was certainly added in post, but why add in post a lower fps? Truth in advertising?

Honestly that "slowdown" looked on purpose to me. Almost like it's just a slow motion effect during that moveset, like a finishing move if you will.

Zelda regardless has framerate drops during normal gameplay, it was clear to see during the gameplay they showed off anyway. I appreciate it was an early build etc but performance didn't look too hot.

 

[Flo_Evans]

It does make me wonder about the Zelda footage. It was certainly added in post, but why add in post a lower fps? Truth in advertising?

I didn't see the standard "screen images simulated" anywhere in the trailer.

 

[Xhaner5]

The only way I see the dock helping is active cooling.

In terms of hardware that increases processing power it's very unlikely. I think some people are under estimating how complex (and costly) it would be to implement what they are suggesting.

Different power states is not an unknown entity, EVERY cpu, gpu and SoC operates the same way, different frequencies depending on what the device is doing. Yes they can be overridden on pc, and android devices etc and forced to run at full frequency at all times.

The most logical explanation would be that any difference in performance is simply down to the Nvidia SoC reducing in frequency while the device is undocked. Two reasons I can think of, firstly to promote better battery life, and also the device itself will lower resolution output from 1080p to 720p.

There's been talk of that "delay" when docking, but that just looks like a resolution change, go change resolution on a ps4 for example and there's a brief black screen. Not to mention that you're technically connecting a device to your displays hdmi input, that's not instant. Go connect something via hdmi on your tv and tell me how quickly it appears, there's a brief delay due to the hdmi handshake.

Yes the biggest problem is how is the supplemental device interface cable would be performing, since interconnects are really fast onboard the circuitry between RAM and GPU, but SLI and Crossfire still exist, maybe nintnendo just has some really beefy proprietary connector.

 

[Pwnedkiller]

I would wait to judge on the battery life till it is made official. I am and was expecting 6-8 hours.

 

[Milly Osworth]

They were hardly vague



That is pretty clear to me. If fanboys want to continue with the wet dream that the docking unit contains an extra more powerful GPU then go ahead but it's not going to happen.

"This information again came from sources A (Nintendo), B (Ubisoft) and D (Manufacturing). None could confirm whether the dock is a PlayStation VR-style processing box which helps power higher resolution play when docked, or if docking the console simply allows the handheld to overclock and provides better performance that way. All sources claim the hardware has an easier time running docked compared to when out and about as a portable."

http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/10/a-deep-dive-on-lpvgs-nintendo-switch-reports-and-info/

Higher clockspeeds or extra processing unit is both still on the table.

 

[OCD Guy]

Yes the biggest problem is how is the supplemental device interface cable would be performing, since interconnects are really fast onboard the circuitry between RAM and GPU, but SLI and Crossfire still exist, maybe nintnendo just has some really beefy proprietary connector.

I think it's like above, where they've gone for an SoC that would normally not be deemed appropriate for mobile devices due to heat and battery life concerns, but what they've done is set different frequencies while docked and undocked to reduce heat and promote better battery life where appropriate.

It makes perfect sense, that way they're not necessarily compromised by going for a small form factor.

As I said the reason tablets and phones aren't more powerful isn't really because the technology isn't there, it's more down to heat and battery concerns.

While docked those concerns wouldn't apply.

Higher clockspeeds or extra processing unit is both still on the table.

Higher clock speeds when docked is pretty much 99% in my opinion. It makes perfect sense. Battery life or heat isn't a concern at that point.

All I'd say is that doesn't mean "overclocked" though, as that technically means that it would be run beyond manufacturer specifications. It's more that when the device is undocked the SoC is "underclocked"

 

[SpookyBlackFish]

They were hardly vague



That is pretty clear to me. If fanboys want to continue with the wet dream that the docking unit contains an extra more powerful GPU then go ahead but it's not going to happen.

This is what I think as well. The only thing I would call vague is that they did not say this dock is ONLY an empty charging and passthrough hull. So it may house an HDD or some communication stuff. I do not believe we will see noticably beefed up visuals on TV. More frames or resolution oder more stable online at best.

It is not that it would be impossible but two efficient processing units for the price of one... no. And Nintendo never were in a position that allowed them to sell expensive hardware successfully. And I also believe it would do them no good to create a two classes community with both a Beef or Boon SKU.

 

[oti]

Wii U graphics are fine for me, I don't need this illusive dock to turn Switch into PS4 Pro territory. Just make it all smooth and give me 1080p. That's really all I want out of the dock.

 

[benny_a]

4 years later and my tag still works for current discussions on this forum with talk about supplemental computing device.

 

[brochiller]

I think it's like above, where they've gone for an SoC that would normally not be deemed appropriate for mobile devices due to heat and battery life concerns, but what they've done is set different frequencies while docked and undocked to reduce heat and promote better battery life where appropriate.

It makes perfect sense, that way they're not necessarily compromised by going for a small form factor.

As I said the reason tablets and phones aren't more powerful isn't really because the technology isn't there, it's more down to heat and battery concerns.

While docked those concerns wouldn't apply.



Higher clock speeds when docked is pretty much 99% in my opinion. It makes perfect sense. Battery life or heat isn't a concern at that point.

All I'd say is that doesn't mean "overclocked" though, as that technically means that it would be run beyond manufacturer specifications. It's more that when the device is undocked the SoC is "underclocked"

Exactly. What makes mobile processors different is not necessarily their size, it's their regard for heat dissipation and battery life. Size isn't really as much of an issue and if it is the Switch looks slightly thicker than most tablets anyway.

 

[kodecraft]

Sega was ahead of its time with the Game Gear.

Memories, boy how I wish they were still in the console business.

 

[Xhaner5]

I have an idea.

The dock that ships with the console may be a minimal dummy with purely connector cable passthrough, the X would still enable higher clocks aka "max power" mode.

There could be the separately sold DockPremium with integrated supplemental processing unit HAHAHHA :

If that happens, I sware I will ... try to ... make a new gif to celerbrate the hype.

 

[TLZ]

They were hardly vague



That is pretty clear to me. If fanboys want to continue with the wet dream that the docking unit contains an extra more powerful GPU then go ahead but it's not going to happen.

Can you stop saying that and be more respectful?

The guy has put some effort into it and is trying, credit for that. You could try and respond differently, you know in a nicer way?

 

[Kodaman]

I would wait to judge on the battery life till it is made official. I am and was expecting 6-8 hours.

Yeah, no. This isn't going to happen.
I'd say 4 hours is the absolute best we can expect.

It's the battery technology we have right now.

 

[Haunted]

I was saying that the dock needed to be a big fucking boost for this thing and that would make it more acceptable to me.

But then realised that devs would probably still have to target the mobile performance as the lowest common denominator and that made me sad.

 

[Journeywalker]

I'm pretty sour that games have to work without touch, even though Switch likely has a touch screen. I recently enjoyed Severed, and it would be unplayable without touch.

I feel that developers should at least have the option of mimicking a touch screen interface while Switch is in docked mode by using gyro and/or IR sensors in the joycons.

Without a touch-mimic interface, It breaks the illusion that you can play all of your games in whatever fashion you want. Certain apps and game modes would be mobile-only. So what happens when you're playing Severed and you dock the machine? There's really no elegant way to tell the player, "Sorry, this game doesn't work on your TV."

 

[cyberheater]

Can you stop saying that and be more respectful?

The guy has put some effort into it and is trying, credit for that. You could try and respond differently, you know in a nicer way?

Nothing wrong being called a fanboy. I'm a fanboy too.

 

[maxcriden]

Any new leaks from on Laura beyond what's in the OP and the analog triggers?

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

3Hrs average I can live with; 3Hrs max I'm not so sure.

 

[cyberheater]

Wii U graphics are fine for me, I don't need this illusive dock to turn Switch into PS4 Pro territory. Just make it all smooth and give me 1080p. That's really all I want out of the dock.

I really can't see this delivering smooth 1080p gaming on a multiplatform AAA ports. It's not going to have the same performance as a Xbox One let alone a PS4.

 

[koam]

Since when do dev kits run on battery? They're usually tethered.

 

[Always-honest]

I really can't see this delivering smooth 1080p gaming on a multiplatform AAA ports. It's not going to have the same performance as a Xbox One let alone a PS4.

I doubt many people will buy it for multiplats. I hope they don't even cater to multiplats personally. Aside from the once in a nintendo generation Fifa and CoD title.
I mean, who will actually even buy a Skyrim remake on it? Very few people i think.

 

[cyberheater]

I doubt many people will buy it for multiplats. I hope they don't even cater to multiplats personally. Aside from the once in a nintendo generation Fifa and CoD title.
I mean, who will actually even buy a Skyrim remake on it? Very few people i think.

You didn't get the memo...

 

[Always-honest]

You didn't get the memo...

I did. But what does that memo say exactly? That they will port Their AAA current gen console games to the Twitch?
Hopefully they will get a lot of third party exclusives.
Maybe some older games will be remastered for the handheld.
I can't see current multiplats being a thing for the Switch. The power gap will be pretty wide and those games have enough platforms allready.

 

[cyberheater]

I can't see current multiplats being a thing for the Switch. The power gap will be pretty wide.

I agree which makes me wonder the point of this device.

I wonder what the projected install base is because I can't see why a dev would release on this platform after what happened to the WiiU.

 

[Hermii]

I doubt many people will buy it for multiplats. I hope they don't even cater to multiplats personally. Aside from the once in a nintendo generation Fifa and CoD title.
I mean, who will actually even buy a Skyrim remake on it? Very few people i think.

Because they want to play skyrim on the go?

The amount of multiplats will depend on ease of porting, install base and sales. The Wii U did poorly in all these three areas but the Wii actually got all the cod games and they sold well on it.

 

[Oersted]

I doubt many people will buy it for multiplats. I hope they don't even cater to multiplats personally. Aside from the once in a nintendo generation Fifa and CoD title.
I mean, who will actually even buy a Skyrim remake on it? Very few people i think.

You can tell this topic has been run into the ground, when we have it on good authority* that noone will buy games for it.


*My ass

Since when do dev kits run on battery? They're usually tethered.

That would be a interesting detail. I guess she will add it within the next weeks.

 

[Starchasing]

About the battery time.... this looks like an usb type c port to me in the bottom of the Switch console:

I think Nintendo's weak position in the market is forcing them to cut all the bs, and that means for example:

1. No propietary connectors bs. Usb type c so anyone can buy battery packs if they please.
2. A network and storage system that allows DLC and games as a service.

 

[jonno394]

About the battery time.... this looks like an usb type c port to me:

Just FYI, a much better image was posted in the reveal thread

 

[Always-honest]

I agree which makes me wonder the point of this device.

I wonder what the projected install base is because I can't see why a dev would release on this platform after what happened to the WiiU.

I'm hoping these devs know more about the strategy behing the Switch and the stuff we haven't heard yet. But it can easily go the same with as the WiiU if Nintendo doesn't capture the imagination of a lot of kids, parents and millennials.

Devs are always eager to jump in on a succes. But i think Nintendo will have to come with some brilliant stuff to get people to buy this thing. I'm talking Pokemon Go level hype.

Because they want to play skyrim on the go?

The amount of multiplats will depend on ease of porting, install base and sales. The Wii U did poorly in all these three areas but the Wii actually got all the cod games and they sold well on it.

Yeah that is unique to the Switch ofcourse. So that might trigger some people hopefully.

You can tell this topic has been run into the ground, when we have it on good authority* that noone will buy games for it.


*My ass

Games? i'm talking about 1 game. Skyrim.
Are there people here who can still have a normal conversation without becoming aggressive right away?

But sure, maybe i'm wrong in the amount of people who will buy Skyrim. I hope i'm wrong.

 

[13ruce]

Hopefully Nintendo can increase the battery life to 5 hours that would be perfect.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I agree which makes me wonder the point of this device.

A consolidated single platform for Nintendo to put their games on. As for third parties, unless the Switch takes off I don't think there will be much more than current gen ports and some minimal lip service, and the occasional Nintendo-funded exclusive.

 

[heidern]

If this thing is around a third of the power of current gen systems in portable mode then it should be able to do current gen visuals at 540p/30. Nintendo first party games would probably be 720p/60 I'd guess to save development costs. That would put it in direct competition with the X1S and PS4 Slim.

The dock is small so I don't see it having chips to compete with Pro/Scorpio. How much improvement would screen switched off/active cooling in the dock allow on the SoC? 3x would be ideal since then it would allow 1080p/30 on the TV.

 

[MacTag]

I really can't see this delivering smooth 1080p gaming on a multiplatform AAA ports. It's not going to have the same performance as a Xbox One let alone a PS4.

Sure, PS4 and (especially) Xbox One aren't even managing 1080p with AAA games always. We'll see some 1080p games though most likely, in addition to resolutions like 720p and 900p.

 

[Oersted]

A consolidated single platform for Nintendo to put their games on. As for third parties, unless the Switch takes off I don't think there will be much more than current gen ports and some minimal lip service, and the occasional Nintendo-funded exclusive.

Ports are sort of the bread and butter of all consoles.

 

[wonderful103]

Ports are sort of the bread and butter of all consoles.

I hope you like indie titles after the contracted/incentivized support runs out. lol

 

[Ran rp]

Just FYI, a much better image was posted in the reveal thread

they mean under the ns itself, not the dock.

 

[Majukun]

well we already know from nintendo that the doc doesn't add shit to the processing power..so i'd say fake for the rest too

 

[jonno394]

they mean under the ns itself, not the dock.

ah, my mistake, thanks for clarifying!

 

[Jon of the Wired]

About the battery time.... this looks like an usb type c port to me in the bottom of the Switch console:



I think Nintendo's weak position in the market is forcing them to cut all the bs, and that means for example:

1. No propietary connectors bs. Usb type c so anyone can buy battery packs if they please.
2. A network and storage system that allows DLC and games as a service.

Interestingly, that picture should kill any speculation that there's some sort of extra processing hardware in the dock. To support the kind of bandwidth between the dock and the console that a coprocessor or GPU would require you would need some sort of wide, many-pin connector along the bottom of the console, and you can't see anything like that in the picture. USB-C isn't going to cut it.

 

[thumb]

well we already know from nintendo that the doc doesn't add shit to the processing power..so i'd say fake for the rest too

It's possible that being undocked causes the processor to throttle to save battery life. This throttling might be disabled while docked.