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[Armaly]

Can it do Bloodborne at 1080/60fps?

 

[Paz]

With the new DS4s you can connect them via USB to the PS4/Pro and it will transmit data through the cord, eliminating any wireless latency. Not sure how much latency there is to begin with though.

I cannot imagine wireless controller lag being a major player when the difference between game mode and HDR capable TV modes is often 30-60ms, plus whatever the game itself is causing (SF V for example has an additional ~50ms of latency on top of the base ~83 SF IV already had, according to what I've read)

My current TV does high 30's in game mode and mid 60s outside of game mode (considered quite good), which puts SFIV at ~120ms in game mode and a potential SF V HDR would come in at a whopping ~195ms, both before controller lag is even accounted for.

But you also have to consider the massive impact of stuff like screen motion blur on the actual playability beyond the simple lag, so there are really a lot of factors to consider, and some (rare) TV's can do game mode while HDR-ing.

I mean it'll help to send the signal via wired, but imo the main benefit is the consistency of inputs rather than the reduction in signal latency, the worst thing for a fighting game is if a button gets dropped or misses the timing window you hit it for due to having to be re-sent.

 

[GobFather]

This article does make me want to upgrade but the day 1 is much sexier than pro lol

 

[HitCtrlAltDel]

All this information and yet no one has asked this question:

Does the PS4 Pro support larger 15mm laptop hard drives?

This would allow for internal 4TB storage without spending $1500 on a 4TB SSD. Major oversight in my eyes if it didn't considering it has been many years since laptop drives have increased in capacity without getting physically larger.

 

[n0razi]

All this information and yet no one has asked this question:

Does the PS4 Pro support larger 15mm laptop hard drives?

This would allow for internal 4TB storage without spending $1500 on a 4TB SSD. Major oversight in my eyes if it didn't considering it has been many years since laptop drives have increased in capacity without getting physically larger.

Even if it doesnt physically, can't you just use an extension cable for the power and SATA? I know you can do that with the OG PS4. Nyko even sells an enclosure that does it. It's not pretty but its better than nothing for the 5% of people who want to use a 4tb drive.

 

[tuxfool]

Except Sony's scaling solution seems to result in impressive IQ improvements nearing native 4K, hence the praise they're getting from DF and other reporters who've seen Pro first-hand.

No.

It is neat, but not that. Those screenshots they released clearly don't show a 4k native image.

 

[Rotch Crot]

The article is full of optimism and praise... what sounds disappointing?

"Various levels of artefacting" has me worried.

But im a bit more sold now having read he article.

 

[Inuhanyou]

No.

It is neat, but not that. Those screenshots they released clearly don't show a 4k native image.

It bridges the gap a significant amount from the next step down(1080p). Their goal was absolutely realized, based on DF's experience with the best implementations in games

No.

It is neat, but not that. Those screenshots they released clearly don't show a 4k native image.

He didn't say native 4K.

 

[tuxfool]

It bridges the gap a significant amount from the next step down(1080p). Their goal was absolutely realized, based on DF's experience with the best implementations in games.

The point being that "nearing native 4k" would imply a degree of closeness to the result. A quick glance at those screenshots told me it wasn't 4k. That isn't nearing, it is certainly significantly better than what was there before, but I wouldn't confuse that output for a native 4k image.

 

[Rotch Crot]

No.

It is neat, but not that. Those screenshots they released clearly don't show a 4k native image.

Where are he released screenshots.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The point being that "nearing native 4k" would imply a degree of closeness to the result. A quick glance at those screenshots told me it wasn't 4k. That isn't nearing, it is certainly significantly better than what was there before, but I wouldn't confuse that output for a native 4k image.

It is far closer to 4K than the next step down, and thus scales far better to a TV that is 4K, and displays much cleaner on a TV that is 1080p. Easy to understand now?

 

[icespide]

The point being that "nearing native 4k" would imply a degree of closeness to the result. A quick glance at those screenshots told me it wasn't 4k. That isn't nearing, it is certainly significantly better than what was there before, but I wouldn't confuse that output for a native 4k image.

"nearing 4k" does not imply how close it is to 4k, it literally just means its closer to 4k than 1080p but we're really getting pedantic here

 

[HitCtrlAltDel]

Even if it doesnt physically, can't you just use an extension cable for the power and SATA? I know you can do that with the OG PS4. Nyko even sells an enclosure that does it. It's not pretty but its better than nothing for the 5% of people who want to use a 4tb drive.

That kind of setup would drive me crazy. No reason to not just have it internally compatible. Looks like from the pics the hard drive bay in the back. Hard to tell if it is physically tall enough to even possibly support it.

 

[UnrealEck]

"nearing 4k" does not imply how close it is to 4k, it literally just means its closer to 4k than 1080p but we're really getting pedantic here

So it can be .001% closer to 4K and you'd consider it 'nearing 4K'?
I'd have thought 'nearing' would mean it's close and approaching it.

 

[pixellated_man]

This is very much not the same thing.

By this logic, Nintendo should be claiming their games are in 4k, because my tv is upscaling them to 4k.

That's not what Sony is doing here. They have a variety of other techniques going in to improve image quality. They aren't just stretching out the image and calling it 4k.

Just ignore that poster, man. He/ She is too deeply entrenched in the console war to care about nuanced arguments.

 

[tuxfool]

It is far closer to 4K than the next step down, and thus scales far better to a TV that is 4K, and displays much cleaner on a TV that is 1080p. Easy to understand now?

the intermediate steps would be 1440p or 1800p.

By most accounts people wouldn't call 900p today nearing 1080p. They'd call it 900p.

 

[Muzicfreq]

Even if it doesnt physically, can't you just use an extension cable for the power and SATA? I know you can do that with the OG PS4. Nyko even sells an enclosure that does it. It's not pretty but its better than nothing for the 5% of people who want to use a 4tb drive.

please for the love of tech. Do not use a green drive for gaming

 

[RootCause]

So it can be .001% closer to 4K and you'd consider it 'nearing 4K'?
I'd have thought 'nearing' would mean it's close and approaching it.

Lol that's not remotely close to what he said. Not even by .001%

 

[Inuhanyou]

the intermediate steps would be 1440p or 1800p.

By most accounts people wouldn't call 900p today nearing 1080p. They'd call it 900p.

Considering this technique is about specifically scaling more finely to 4K televisions, not about single native resolutions, the comparison to 900p makes no sense, this is not rendering a single halfway resolution, it is combining two resolutions and sending that combination of frames for output to TV

Based on what we're getting, the frames are done at double 1080p pixel ratio, which is means around 1440p for both frames, but boosting the quality beyond a single 1440p frame.

 

[jett]

They worked while charging. I don't get why you make that assumption. His post is clear as day.

I think jett is expressing surprise that they were using wireless transmission even while physically connected, not wondering if they didn't work at all while charging.

It is kind of odd, although to be fair, the XB1 controller dropout when you connect and disconnect a controller is sort of annoying. PS4 sticking to 1 communication method does keep it smooth.

That's indeed what I was saying.

 

[mrklaw]

I said it in the conference thread, but techniques like PBR,mHDR and checkerboard rendering are rally converging at a good time to allow a nice step up in quality for (relatively) low cost

 

[velociraptor]

When I saw the conference I was disappointed. Thought 'meh, visuals look exactly the same as PS4'. Now I see Sony has uploaded the conference in 4k (in Youtube). Granted, it's only YT, but the different in image quality is staggering. I don't think I have ever seen any PS4 title look so clean. The fact that Call Of Duty finally looks next-gen is shocking.

 

[Lady Gaia]

By most accounts people wouldn't call 900p today nearing 1080p. They'd call it 900p.

The key word there is "today." 1080p native titles are commonplace enough in the console market that it makes sense to distinguish between those that are and those that are not. Given that there has never been a 4K native major console release it's not surprising that we talk about "nearing 4K" as a noteworthy achievement.

I'm still skeptical that we'll see much in the way of graphical powerhouse titles at native 4K before the 2019/2020 console era.

 

[tuxfool]

Based on what we're getting, the frames are done at double 1080p pixel ratio, which is means around 1440p for both frames, but boosting the quality beyond a single 1440p frame.

Sure. However, I personally wouldn't consider the quality of that near 2160p, in my impression I'd say it is closer to 1440p than 2160p but with better iq than a naive scale.

 

[KKRT00]

I'm going through PS4 Pro conference and pretty much every title on PS4 Pro is downgraded in some way.
The bigger downgrades are regarding to shadows rendering, especially from external light sources and SSR.
The DF comparisons will be really interesting in November.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Is it safe to postulate that everybody's focusing on better image quality at 30fps because the CPU bottleneck is keeping a lot of these games from hitting 60fps at 1080p no matter how much they beef up the GPU?

No matter how much people try to push this narrative the answer is no. Visuals sell games, so that's where developers put their time and energy. If 60fps titles were consistently bigger sellers than 30fps across all genres then that's all we'd get. These CPUs are quite capable, but frame rate is simply not a priority over visuals except in a few specific genres.

 

[3rdamention]

It sounds pretty disappointing

Did you read the article? It sounds like he was very optimistic and excited by it.


What was so disappointing?

 

[tuxfool]

The key word there is "today." 1080p native titles are commonplace enough in the console market that it makes sense to distinguish between those that are and those that are not. Given that there has never been a 4K native major console release it's not surprising that we talk about "nearing 4K" as a noteworthy achievement.

I'm still skeptical that we'll see much in the way of graphical powerhouse titles at native 4K before the 2019/2020 console era.

Yeah and these techniques make such simple statements a bit more dicey, but one can guesstimate to existing PC resolutions. The generation after probably still won't be 4K native but the pixel volume generated each frame will be a lot closer to 4k, the 900p to today's 1080p.

 

[Rotch Crot]

I think im sold on the pro now. It's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard and severely disappointing that a UHD drive is not included.

Native 4k isn't going to happen for a long time. Probably generation after next. But I really like what I'm reading about sony's in-between solution.

And if every developer offers something like tomb raider does, I'm in.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm going through PS4 Pro conference and pretty much every title on PS4 Pro is downgraded in some way.
The bigger downgrades are regarding to shadows rendering, especially from external light sources and SSR.
The DF comparisons will be really interesting in November.

I don't see why not? What would be the comparison, since these checkerboarded games are rendering at more than double the rendering resolution of the original PS4. Of course the GPU is being stressed. That's without even mentioning that most of these games are months away from release in general, with tons of optimization to go visually and performance wise on both PS4 and Pro.

Now if we want comparisons between the original PS4 and XB1 on a 1:1 basis, sure. Neo's 1080p mode would absolutely destroy them.

 

[DreadfulOmen]

Every article on every site is filled with comments saying "UPSCALE" "PS4 FAKE 4K" when most of these people have probably not even seen actual 4k in person.
Playing native 4k on pc for a while has been great but i had to shell out the money for 2 1080s (about... $2000 CAD?). Watching the ps4 pro demos on my tv has been quite extraordinary considering the price of the box.

No it's not just an upscale, plug in an OG ps4 to a 4k tv and there's your upscale.

The upscale is whatever the difference is between base resolution and 4k, if there is one. They may be checkerboarding all the way to 4k.

seriously, i dont get why it's so hard to understand.

 

[Rikimaru82]

I was wondering if it would make sense to grab the PS4+ while I have the OG PS4, but this made me decide to get the PS4+.
Goint to get it when it comes out and will give my old one to my little nephew. He will have an instant digital game collection as well. Going to make his father also happy as it will save him some money hehe

 

[MrCarter]

Great article and it seems DF really know thier stuff. I must say I was undecided at first but this article has helped me to decide that the PS4 Pro is a great investment at that price.

 

[adamsapple]

please for the love of tech. Do not use a green drive for gaming

I'm curious .. why not ?

 

[eighty(one)]

It won't be on the pro, and only LG and Visio support it in their TVs, so I can't see Sony including it any time soon.

I haven't personally seen Dolby vision, but HDR 10 is very nice. Since the format may or may not take off I wouldn't base a purchasing decision on it. Any Dolby Vision set also supports HDR10 so it's not like you would be shooting yourself in the foot by buying one either.

I have a conundrum:

TV in living room - 65 LG 3D 4K UHD/HDR + Dolby LED TV

TV Bedroom - 55 1080 3D LED TV

Both units have a PS4 + PSVR. The conundrum, The TV in the living room is usually occupied by my husband and the PS4 he uses. He plays less games and streams Kodi.

The TV in bedroom, I play my PS4 (both systems use my purchase history to multi together) and my PSVR (he has one, but I wanted to. It mess family room set up and not share tv time so have my own headset).

So, I know the main room will benefit more from a pro purchase, but am I selling myself short getting the pro for my VR and the 1080 tv?

 

[GinoFelino]

I have a conundrum:

TV in living room - 65 LG 3D 4K UHD/HDR + Dolby LED TV

TV Bedroom - 55 1080 3D LED TV

Both units have a PS4 + PSVR. The conundrum, The TV in the living room is usually occupied by my husband and the PS4 he uses. He plays less games and streams Kodi.

The TV in bedroom, I play my PS4 (both systems use my purchase history to multi together) and my PSVR (he has one, but I wanted to. It mess family room set up and not share tv time so have my own headset).

So, I know the main room will benefit more from a pro purchase, but am I selling myself short getting the pro for my VR and the 1080 tv?

Soooo...selling yourself short in the sense that you should also get a 4K tv for yourself?

 

[MADGAME]

For me personally, I don't care about 4k gaming at this time. What will drive a PS4 Pro sale for me is the list of games that get a worthwhile 1080p patch on the Pro, along with the additional bells and whistles in 1080p for games yet to be released.

 

[The Last Wizard]

Why the bump-_-

Was expecting something new:/

 

[Incitemaybe]

I really would like to see more about the benefits for the PSVR.... the more I read about the Pro the more it seems like it's mostly for 4k displays.

 

[KiraXD]

For me personally, I don't care about 4k gaming at this time. What will drive a PS4 Pro sale for me is the list of games that get a worthwhile 1080p patch on the Pro, along with the additional bells and whistles in 1080p for games yet to be released.

interestingly enough... i feel the same...

Though i have a 4k tv... id be more interested in 1080p with dope framerate and higher effects and all that stuff... make it look amazing and stable at 1080p.

This is the "Gamers Dilemma" as i like to call it...

~Do you want 4k resolution with subpar graphics, textures, effects, lighting (whatever is sacrificed to hit the resolution.)

~Do you want 60fps with subpar graphics, textures, effects, lighting (again... whatever is sacrificed to hit framerates)

~Do you want amazing graphics, textures, effects, lighting, with lower resolution and framerate. (1080p instead of 4k, 30fps instead of 60fps)

Strictly for console gamers... there is usually compromises.

For example... i know 4k @ 60fps and amazing (ie: the best a dev can do) visuals wont happen... so id be fine with 4k @30fps with the best visuals. Or 1080p @60fps with the best visuals. (im a graphics guy, so as long as a game runs locked at 30fps and looks amazing, im good, though im loving 60fps more and more... but i still dont want a 720p or 900p game if thats the resolution it needs to be in order to hit 60fps)

If a game can hold 60fps at 1080p with all the bells and whistles graphically... thats the sweet spot imo. but if the games visuals and framerate HAVE to take a hit to get 4k... ill pass.

 

[Moreche]

I really wish Sony had only left the 4K for video apps like Netflix.
It would have been an easier sell to gamers if the Pro versions of games had steadier frame-rates, extra AF and AA with better textures and that's it.

 

[eighty(one)]

Soooo...selling yourself short in the sense that you should also get a 4K tv for yourself?

Well, the living room TV was $2400.00 -> sale priced $1,800.00. Not interested in dropping that cash, losing 3D and going below 55 inch.

What is lost sticking to 1080?

 

[pswii60]

I really wish Sony had only left the 4K for video apps like Netflix.
It would have been an easier sell to gamers if the Pro versions of games had steadier frame-rates, extra AF and AA with better textures and that's it.

Didn't Sony say they won't permit Pro versions to have faster framerates? Or is that only for multiplayer modes?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Didn't Sony say they won't permit Pro versions to have faster framerates? Or is that only for multiplayer modes?

Only for multiplayer.

 

[adamsapple]

Didn't Sony say they won't permit Pro versions to have faster framerates? Or is that only for multiplayer modes?

Multiplayer will have parity, but there's nothing stopping pro versions from LOCKING down the frame rate more consistently. i-e less dips.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

So I guess no 60fps Bloodborne due to the multiplayer restriction.

 

[Freshmaker]

The only part of this that makes me sad is that while 4k is amazing, it definitely isn't in my budget until a few years down the line when it becomes a little more mainstream, and it seems they're wanting to go the 4K 30FPS route which I do not at all welcome. 60 frames should be first and foremost what developers aim for then graphical prowess. Have I somehow missed footage of comparisons?

Why not 120fps?

 

[TetraGenesis]

So I guess no 60fps Bloodborne due to the multiplayer restriction.

Bloodborne hasn't had a patch announced at all yet...

I really hope so but I'm just not sure it will.

 

[Gitaroo]

Just checkerboard 4k+hdr + even faster loading from sata3 ssd alone are enough for Bloodborne. Would assume rock solid frame rate will correct the frame pacing. Those shouldnt require a lot of effort.

 

[0racle]

Am I dumb for selling my launch ps4 for a pro when gaming on a 1080p TV?