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FFXV might receive additional PS4 Pro support post launch
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
This section is what I was talking about.
Theoretically, even on a 1080p display, the PS4 Pro can use the checkerboard technique to produce that 4K upscaled image, but then downsample it back down to 1080p to perhaps take advantage of the usual downsampling perks, like increased anti-aliasing.
This is more or less what I was trying to reference in theoretical application with FFXV. It sounds like the game is going to upscale to 4K -- whether or not it uses the onboard checkerboard technique is another question, I suppose -- but for 1080p users, I was wondering if the downsample might be available automatically or if Square-Enix would have to allow users to toggle it on.
In any case, I feel I've actually gotten my answer -- we don't know.
I could be totally wrong but I thought that the PS Pro would detect if you had a 1080 signal or 4k signal demand coming out of the TV. So if you had the pro and popped in a game but the pro was hooked up to the tv you would get the normal PS4 quality as if you played on a normal PS4 unless there was a patch that was specifically developed for the game.
Now if you had a 4ktv and a PS pro with this game. Then the PS Pro would send out a 4k signal (checkerd upscale) to the tv plus anything else that the developers coded the game for (HDR,60fps, etc)
I do not believe that if you own a PS Pro that alone will improve 1080 quality. It needs to be coded to do so. So if the developer did not add anything into the game to go ahead and upscale regardless of tv signal then I dont see how it would improve anything.
I have a 4K tv and a 1080 TV. I have pre-ordered the PS Pro and will be keeping my PS4. I will let people know if there is a difference between PS4 at 1080 and PS Pro at 1080. But for now I can only assume you will not see a difference on a 1080 tv unless its coded for in the game.....but if its the console that does all the up-scaling regardless of the game then yes...your 1080 tv will get a downsampled version. But I do not belive that is the case cause then there would be no reason for a patch besides just enabling HDR... But alot of games claim the patch allowed for the increase in resolution and hdr.
Wishmaster92
Member
This is what was shown at the pro reveal
shouamabane
Member
Hmm. Might be worth waiting for $40.
I wish these companies would just come out and flat explain what I can expect from the PS4 Pro at this point.
I read these threads and see people stating everything from better performance, to increased graphics, to "nothing will be different at all"....and yet I haven't heard one damn thing from Sony on any of it. And frankly it is making me not want to buy anything.
Sony. Please tell us what to expect from your 400 dollar machine.
I read these threads and see people stating everything from better performance, to increased graphics, to "nothing will be different at all"....and yet I haven't heard one damn thing from Sony on any of it. And frankly it is making me not want to buy anything.
Sony. Please tell us what to expect from your 400 dollar machine.
Exactly this. The hair in this game is horrible jaggies and nobody care! Just do a quick checkerboard super sampling and call it a day!
The_Hitcher89
Member
Isn't it up to the devs at this point?
The Pro can improve any and all of these things afaik, it's up to the devs to decide how to use the extra power and hopefully make it clear what direction they've gone in
...
You don't frequent FF15 threads do you?
Until August everyone was complaining about the game's IQ and the dithering/ Jaggies on the hair. Its significantly better now than it was back then (to the point that only Ardyn and Cindy seem to have hair Jaggie problems now).
SaniOYOYOY
Member
the way I see it, Tabata says that 4k hdr is in the launch version and they will later patch all that eyecandy that was scraped before(GI,better draw distance, etc) in order to make 15 run smoothly on normal ps4.
Sony did tell you though. It's left to developers to determine how they'll take advantage of the hardware. Generally, you're talking crisper and better quality visuals. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to demonstrate noticeable improvements either. You're talking from a few days to a few weeks depending on the developer and their aims. And you don't need entire teams or the like. The cost is insignificant.
Having said that, I think there is already plenty of information out there that is going into the more technical mumbo jumbo of how developers are approaching the upcoming titles. Now that may be a little too technical for the likes of you and me, and frankly probably most of the people on this forum, but it's there. And you also do have people on this forum who understand a lot of that stuff, and could likely explain it to you in simpler ways, but there's usually a tendency to overreact everywhere.
This thread, for example, is utterly bizarre. You've got a whole host of misunderstandings based on what people think Tabata is saying, and that's partly his fault for being too straightforward with his words as always, but also them not really understanding what he's saying. I'm no technical wizard (I barely know the terms), but it's pretty clear he's simply talking about taking full advantage of the Pro and he likens it to his aim for a PC version, which is quite different from the approach most developers are taking to the hardware.
In general, no one is going to those kind of lengths. That indicates a significant time investment that seems to indicate a really different version. And you don't really have to do that. (I'm sure if you did, which some developers will eventually, you could probably make something pretty amazing but that doesn't mean you won't be impressed with the other efforts.) I've seen eight Pro titles now on 4K and HD TVs (and that includes FFXV) and the differences are significant and noticeable. That's not just on 4K TVs either, where it's really noticeable, but on HD TVs where the image is visibly crisper and sharper, and just looks a lot nicer. Most of these titles are yet to be complete too (barring Tomb Raider), so it goes without saying that they'll probably still improve somewhat by the time they launch.
Really, the best way to see these is in front of you, and for information online, you'll have to rely on the tech websites to do their analysis of these games. Then you'll know exactly the differences and nitty and gritty technical details in terms of performance and consistency etc. But in general, I would say it's safe to just expect much better visual quality. That's about the only thing that can be said with any confidence.
There's no rush either really. You have plenty of time to make a decision as to whether the console is worth it for you. There's going to plenty of articles about the Pro games soon so you can make an informed decision as to whether the differences are worth it. And whether you get all the FASA, LOG or whatever other nonsense it is, those articles should make it pretty clear.
AlexFlame116
Member
Wait, so because of this one interview and one game, the PS4 Pro (and even this game according to some) is now irrelevant? I mean I wanted to play this game on the Pro too cause upscaled stuff and all but it's not gonna bother me if there isn't any major changes.
Irishonion
Member
Well, still buying a pro. XV was one of my main reasons for it. But there's tomb raider, horizon zero dawn, mass effect, rdr2(?) and hopefully God of war 4. To name a few.(that I'll be playing my pro on)
Im keeping one of my og ps4's so I'll be able to do my own comparison in home haha.
Right now I'm happy with barebones upgrade for pro version. I believe they will work on a full pro patch easily down the road. Might even make one for Scorpio...
Im keeping one of my og ps4's so I'll be able to do my own comparison in home haha.
Right now I'm happy with barebones upgrade for pro version. I believe they will work on a full pro patch easily down the road. Might even make one for Scorpio...
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
Right now, it's pretty clear that FFXV will have 4K upscaling (unconfirmed if it uses the checkerboard technique, but I think the assumption is safe that it does given its involvement in the PS4 Pro reveal) and HDR output using the PS4 Pro.
Seems pretty spot on with what's been said. I had personally chimed up in the thread simply to ponder if they'd use that 4K checkerboard technique as a downsample for 1080p users, which is not confirmed, and therefore should not be expected at launch until said otherwise.
Callibretto
Member
All upcoming games will be required to be coded for ps pro, the easiest way to support ps pro is to simply render the game in higher resolution
So all upcoming game will be better on pro regardless of tv since if you had 4k tv you'll get 4k res, if you have 1080p, you'll get super sampling which mean better image quality
Devilinthiscity
Member
Maybe at Paris Games Week? That's the last event before release right? One would hope they'd at least shed some light on that since they probably know fans are really interested on the Pro features. Even if they are minor.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
I care more about IQ than framerate. 30 fps is perfect for me on a console. I want that 1080p and non of that dynamic resolution solution.
Man, PS4 prices are ruined in Germany. Retailers are selling the new Slim for 200. Selling a used OG PS4? Nuh, not worth it imo.
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
Ouch. I'd personally be satisfied with an ironed-out 30fps lock with even framepacing and perhaps implementation of the checkboard supersample to 1080p, assuming it holds up well to real-world implementation and provides the theoretical results EDIT: roughly on-par with normal supersampling.
Might want to give the most recent page another once over real quick.
At this point, all I want in the PS4 Pro version is a stable framerate. Anything else is a bonus.
LowParry
Member
If I had to guess, we'll probably see a more stable and maybe locked 30 fps with the Pro version. I think people just need to take a step back, see what was actually said and be perhaps a little more constructive instead of just doing the normal Gaf meltdown.
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
Not at this time, no. 4K and HDR output is all that's confirmed for FFXV. There's a small possibility that similar to the Xbox One S, the additional power overhead could show SOME improvements (and it's a much larger overhead than the Xbox One S over the original model to boot), but I recall that Sony did specifically state during the PlayStation Meeting that this was absolutely not an intended feature of the system and that users should not expect this to be the case. I tried to find an exact quote, however, but was left unable to dig it up, even in their official FAQ. If I find it, I'll edit it into this post at the bottom. If not, be reasonable and take my recollection with a grain of salt.
At this point, it's all just hope on our behalf, really. I still want the PS4 Pro, but I think Sony's strong focus on 4K/HDR at the reveal of the system was a bit too heavy and a bit misguided in terms of where the audience for that type of content right now and in the near future looks like. It's been my hope that 1080p and PSVR enhancement would be the central focus in the early stages, with 4K/HDR as more of a future-proofing feature, but alas that doesn't quite seem to be the case so far, at least not at the level that Sony and developers are communicating the boons of PS4 Pro.
My TV doesn't have HDR. I'm having tons of fun with my PS4 right now. I'm all in on XV and I'm sure it will be fine on my OG PS4. Higher resolution not worth 200-300 Euros upgrade cost for me right now.
Aren't they forced to support 1080p though ?
Because not many people have 4K tvs. I don't care if this has a faster adoption rate than HDTV, it's still pathetic number of people that do have one.
If FFXV has literally no advantage on PRO for 1080p that's about the worst thing they can do.
Because not many people have 4K tvs. I don't care if this has a faster adoption rate than HDTV, it's still pathetic number of people that do have one.
If FFXV has literally no advantage on PRO for 1080p that's about the worst thing they can do.
Darkstorne
Member
That's the problem - Sony basically said "we have no idea how much of an improvement this will be!"
Now that's completely understandable given this is the first time anything like this has been attempted, and it really is out of Sony's hands. I think the main issue behind the frustration is pre-order culture, and gamers panicking about wanting to pre-order this and own it day one for some bizarre reason that makes no sense, but being confused as to whether the performance benefits are worth $400.
The good news for this game is it arrives almost a month after the Pro launches. Don't pre-order, wait for reviews, learn how well it works for 1080p games in general, and give Square time to provide more news on the Pro version towards launch. You don't need to own this thing on day one if you're still confused or unsure about it. You'll miss out on nothing if you already have a PS4.
The advantage you get is amazing IQ. A downscaled 4K game on a 1080p TV is really nice anti-aliasing.
Ok AT LEAST.
Cause some guy said even that wasn't confirmed.
I'm getting a PRO for this game mostly :/ . Don't have 4K TV (won't for a while, I play on monitor with minimal latence and I'm not ever going back to TV until they fix latency).
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
This is only in theory right now. There isn't a single game for the Pro confirmed to take advantage of this possibility just yet. FFXV is only 100% confirmed some type of 4K compatibility (could be raw upscale, could be checkerboard technique) and HDR output.
I like this idea, I really hope it is implemented... But again, we're just riding on hope and theory that this is one possible update developers will have in their toolkit to enhance the experience for 1080p, it's not set in stone for a single title at this time.
Yes it is confirmed. All games which support enhanced IQ for 4K will at least downscale that output for 1080p screens, unless they have a 1080p specific mode. (And all games with such a choice shown so far, let the use decide resolution vs other benefits, regardless of screen.)
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
I'd love for you to be right, care to show the confirmation? PLEASE DELIVER, you would make my night.
Wait werent these issues with FFXV eliminated? Previews videos didnt seem to suffer from these things? Am I missing something yere?
What are you talking about? A 4K image output will automatically be supersampled on 1080p TVs, resulting in a cleaner, clearer image nearly devoid of anti aliasing. Nothing has to be implemented there. Do you think there will be no image at all or the Pro will just refuse to run a game with a 1080p TV attached?
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
This is what I was trying to clarify earlier in the thread. I was trying to figure out if the 4K checkerboarding on the PS4 Pro was automatically enabled at all times and if you lacked a 4K display, if it would just automatically supersample back down to 1080p output. The answer I seemed to get was mostly a "we don't know" with probably a bit more of a lean on "no."
i.e., I don't think it possible for me to go into my System Settings on a Pro, and set resolution to 4K and expect a signal to still appear on my 1080p display (including other variables like HDMI 2.0 cable being used and my display supporting HDMI 2.0 input). Even in the scenario of selecting Automatic instead of a specific resolution, I still imagine it will always opt for native 1080p.
I think in order to actually get supersampling to occur, the developer has to enable their game to do that type of work on its own -- I do not think the Pro will do it automatically.
I mean, if anyone else has proof that it does just automatically do this, then I'm actually super excited to learn this, but I've yet to find any documentation that states that this is the case, and Sony's own messaging seems to suggest that it's on a per-title, per-developer basis, not a universal feature.
So, even with 4K upscale confirmed for FFXV, how do I know it is going to just render 4K without a toggle or setting change and then downsample back to 1080p for me? I don't see anywhere where Sony has necessarily confirmed the 1080p supersample from checkerboard 4K upscaling as a universal PS4 Pro feature for 4K-enabled titles.
EDIT: Sorry, not trying to start a heated argument here. And maybe my continued questioning is really a symptom of some deep misunderstanding of how this stuff works, but I'm still not quite feeling easy about just assuming I'm going to get that supersampling effect by virtue of having a PS4 Pro and compatible cables and display.
Sniffynose
Member
0_o I'm not touching the Pro or this game until I see the DF analysis from you guys, after all the conflicting news here, at least I know when you guys do the technical tests the numbers don't lie lol.
Keep up the good work as always!
Is it just me or does there seem to be far more games with frame pacing issues this gen?
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
I think a good part of this perception is that a lot more people have become a bit more educated on technical aspects of game, frame pacing just being one issue that's been recently explained pretty well.
I feel like it's possibly always been a problem, I just had no way of defining it, nor quite the discerning judgment to really care much. It's also been relatively recent since I got my first high-end gaming PC (2012), and with it, a whole lot of attention to technical aspects of games and how they affect the play experience has come to light, and I imagine with the boom of PC gaming popularity over the course of the past 4 years or so, I'm not alone in having come to this point.
I often tend to think back to N64 and PlayStation 1 when I was in my late teens and it suddenly started feel like games were getting harder to control with 3D graphics and poorer performance. Back then, I honestly didn't care, I still had a blast with a lot of technically challenged games, and I also understand it was a time when the industry was still figuring out how to do 3D rendering and control.
I think instead of mastering control techniques, this generation is challenged with meeting scaling techniques. PC gaming is back, and with it a wide range of configurations, and the console space continues to grow, and making games with engines that can flex to perform on all of these is a challenge still being figured out by many.
So yeah, frame pacing probably always existed, we just never had the knowledge to discern how it was affecting us until we became a bit more educated to the technical aspects of play, when a lot of us were jumping up to PCs and trying to explain how things suddenly felt so much better when we come across a well-optimized port of a beloved game running at higher framerates with smoother control response, faster load times, etc... that just makes that really good gaming experience that much better.
Always-honest
Banned
This is what was shown at the pro reveal
Jpeg artifacts asside, that looks pretty damn good, right?
I'm sorry if it this has been cleared up, but I haven't seen any announcement on whether the pro will be able to force down sampling on 1080p TV's.
For all we know it could be 4k TV detected output 4k, 1080p panel detected output throttled down PS4 mode until a 1080 enhanced patch is available.
what makes you so sure 4k content will be automatically downsampled?
Edit: Apologies, looks like J_ToSaveTheDay got to the crux of this earlier in the thread.
Did you playED the "Gold" PS4 version or the Gold Pro One ?
If they do have a downsampled mode, that will give you better hair by default.
Frostman
Member
This is what I'm waiting for! We just need more details on games supporting the Pro. I know we have info about a handful, but the biggest fall games are the games we know nothing about.
Let's hope sooner means the next week and a half, rather than the info releasing post launch.
Nov 10th is coming fast and I feel like we are still very much in the dark about a lot of games.
This dude is an insider by the way folks, so there you have it.
Anything new on XVI?
Really appreciate the input guys.
I think all most people want out of the pro and XV on release is a cleaner image on 1080p TV's, myself included.
Hype levels restored!
Edit: For people upset that a cleaner image isn't enough of an upgrade. From my experience the additional anti-aliasing is like a night and day jump in quality. A bit like cleaning a pair of dirty smudged glasses and seeing clearly for the first time.