-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
FFXV might receive additional PS4 Pro support post launch
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
Yes there will be? The developers will decided how to handle it. As stated at the press conference gamers will be able to play at 4k with HDR or at 1080 with higher graphical settings like shadows, foliage, 60 fps or ect. But it needs to be coded.
SO if you have a 4k tv and the developers add all the bells and whistles. I will be able to choose if I want to play at 4k/hdr/30 or 1080/60/Ultra setting. Tomb Raider already has multiple " modes"
So you statement is incredibly wrong.
tareqsalah1
Member
This just made me delay buying final Fantasy not delaying the pro. Actually im not buying any ps4 games untill the pro comes out and i see what happens
Frostman
Member
I can't guarantee it, but I believe 100% with any 4K mode on the Pro, will come Downsampling with 1080p displays. It's a no brainer, it would be no extra work.
By saying there would be no changes for 1080p screens is just spouting utter bull. Downsampling is a significant increase for overall IQ in-game.
Do you not have an One S? Thats exactly how it works. Will not allow you to select 4k if its plugged into a 1080 tv. The ps pro will work the same way . Unless its coded to give 1080 some extra stuff. You will be playing at just 1080 on a 1080 tv. No down-sampling.
But you people on here are really delusional. Belive what you will, dont blame me when you get disappointed it doesnt work as you think. I have both sets (1080 and 4TV, and Ps4 and soon PS Pro) so I will be fine either way.
I didnt saw that down sampling would not be improved IQ. I am saying it does not happen for a 1080 TV. You will get a 1080 singla of the game. Shadow of Morder is only getting SMAA at 1080. ITs only getting that cause they CODED IT. If they had not, there would be no improvement at 1080.
Things dont just magically happen on there own. Everything needs to be coded for in software. So unless they come out and say it will have these certain aspects on 1080 tvs playing the pro. Nothing will be different. Besided maybe a more stable FPS because the graphics are still OC and there.
Karspankey
Banned
Most games on the PS4 Pro render at a res higher than 1080p (1800p for example) and then use checkerboard rendering to scale up to 4K. On a 1080p screen, you'll get that 1800p (or higher) downscaled to your screen. Just like DSR on a PC. This is all provided devs make a patch for their games.
piccio_ssl
Member
i bet there are a lot of games running at 1800p on xbox s
Always-honest
Banned
The games will need a patch ofcourse.
But cerny said Sony asked devs to provide upcoming games with a patch/ resolution boost..
We only hope a lot of older games will get one.
Frostman
Member
what?
Yes, but Sony added support for 2160P YUV420, which unlike 2160P RGB allows 4K@60 even on HDMI 1.4 with a minor loss of quality.
Hexa
Member
I don't think you understand the difference between rendering resolution and display resolution. Rendering resolution is the resolution of the grid being samples (hence including reconstructed pixels in the case of checkerboard rendering). Display resolution is what actually gets outputted. If a game is coded to have a rendering resolution of over 1080p, it'll be downsampled to a display resolution of 1080p. There are no Xbox One S games that have a rendering resolution of over 1080p, hence there is no need to downsample for the output resolution. There will definitely be many that have a higher than 1080p resolution of PS4 Pro, and many of those may not have a 1080p mode. Hence, by default those games will downsample to 1080p resolution for the display resolution if being outputted on a 1080p TV. This is not something that needs to be coded for each game. It is handled at a system level, exactly the same to how you'll get downsampling on 1080p rendering resolution games on a 720p TV.
Pro mode kicks in independently of output, if not it will require another 1080p framebuffer mode from the developer, but not everyone will do that.
In most case you will only have the downsampling.
And i don't know if you have a ps4 bit you should know you can force an output on it. But that won't be required because Pro mode will have an oversampled framebuffer almost everytime.
BossDarkseid
Member
99% sure this guy is a troll.
Karspankey
Banned
IDK, I don't think that will be an option. You can't select 900p on a 900p monitor so that's why I have doubts.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
1440p is not very compatible with the PS4 PRO. Sony suggests higher resolutions starting from 1800p. 1440P can create more harm and artefacts than anything else.
Guess I'll just have to hope my monitor acceptance a 4K signal
Can't imagine it'll look worse than upscaling from 1080
No, not really. Just not one to assume it does all this magical stuff. But no point in trying to explain it to people who are dead set on believing what they want to do.
piccio_ssl
Member
there is no magic in anything of this
ethomaz
Banned
There is no magic in this.
Sony choose this option because it simple and without any additional dev time.
If you have an HDTV the Pro will just choose the 4k Pro mode and downsample to 1080p unless there is a specific 1080p Pro mode coded.
Hexa
Member
It's not magical at all. It's features already existing in even the current PS4 (automatically downsampling when you have higher rendering resolutions higher than the selected output resolution). Assuming that features already in the PS4 won't be in the PS4 Pro for reasons that you can't even explain is completely asinine.
Moral Panic
Member
Theres a difference between rendering resolution and display resolution. You can render and 4K and then use the extra information encoded in the 4K image to display a better 1080p image. This is usually referred to as downsampling.
There's no magic in downsampling.
I play most of my games @2560x1600 on my 1920x1200p monitor thanks to DSR for example
Why wouldn't the same, improved textures also be used in 4K mode? The PS4 Pro's RAM capacity for gaming is the same either way. 4K textures used for 1080P (downsampled) and not for 4K doesn't make much sense.
Always-honest
Banned
That's possible. Some might be cleaner and have better quality effects and stuff. Even better fps. But the textures will be much sharper in 4k.
That would have to be a specially made 1080p mode.
Like Tombraider.
Though just downsampled games could have better fps in 1080p too i think.
videogamephilosopher
Banned
I am wondering how the playstation 4 pro will work on the LG34UM95 if at all in 4k.
"Gold" from August so, hopefully, it will be ironed out.
The Last One
Member
The build from August is from the Master version.
Ah ok, cool. Seems they've made some serious optimizations since that build (at least graphically) so hopefully the framerate and framepacing is apart of that upgrade.
bunbun777
Member
You're wrong. As many have already explained.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
To add to that, the companies which have so far mentioned "improved 1080p" along with 4k (eg TR and Mass Effect) don't mention improved TEXTURES in 1080p mode, just better effects, AA etc.
Off-screen, I know, but the IQ seems to be very sharp for what they are doing for the Pro now. Framerate seems to be good as well as seen in the TGS gameplay video they had on display here
Edit: You can see 2 more screenshots of FFXV off-screen on the Pro here: http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1020525.html (Thx duckroll!)
Thank You!
piccio_ssl
Member
That sounds like a relief cause since then the game has seen some amazing improvements.
Did you guys get to check out the most recent build? None of the previews here really touched on technical stuff.
Was it on Pro or OG PS4?
LordKasual
Banned
They've been taking cues from more successful engine endevors. Unlike Crystal Tools, they've been pretty proudly showing this one off and how it works. The majority of the development reels for XV look like them just showing off the engine and tools, one feature at a time. They've mentioned that they've been observing Unreal 4's architecture and how it achieves its ease of use, and you can see the influence whenever they show it off in action. Something tells me that they're likely gearing up to license it out.
I'm pretty sure they'll keep using this engine...In the event they use it for a game that is of smaller scale than FFXV (Dissidia, newer chapters of FF7:R, some new IP), I expect they can unlock some of its greater features, even on console. But as a fan of their ambitions, even I didn't expect XV to look as good as it does right now, considering how it's looked leading up to this point.
But most importantly...I don't believe that there is much that the engine can't handle. When you think about it, FFXV is a pretty crazy jump from everything Square has done since then. It's an action game, with a massive open world, seamless transition, with driving and flying, cities, dynamic time of day, and huge, dynamic set pieces. FFXV and Luminous Studio has covered alot of ground in one fell swoop. There's really no reason not to use Luminous going forward, a game like Kingdom Hearts 3 or even an FF7 remake shouldn't include anything that FFXV doesn't already have.
Do we know if the PS4 can draw UI/HUD elements at native resolution while still getting hardware scaling on the rest of the image? I recall reading somewhere that Xbox One could do something like this and then composites the final image. Hasn't been a huge consideration with PS4 since the vast majority of stuff runs 1080P native but with the Pro we're probably going to get all sorts of upscaling and downsampling and it'd be good to know we'll still get nice, crisp UIs without relying on devs implementing their own software scaling for every situation.
For what it's worth, Duscae's UI was 1080p, which threw me off when I was pixel-counting.
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
I love this discussion, I feel like I know where people are coming from as doubters and where they're coming from as assured that the downsample (supersample) from checkerboard 4K works, now, too.
I think there's still room for doubt, and despite me now moving to feeling a little more assured that it's just going to supersample on 1080p whether or not the developer intends that or not, truth is, Sony hasn't actually specified in an official way to know for sure yet.
Given the impressions of the TGS build running on PS4 Pro, it is absolutely a strong desire for me as FFXV will be one of my first post-Pro titles, and also happens to be one of my most anticipated titles as well.
I understand for sure that Sony has communicated that checkerboarding their games up to 4K on the Pro is relatively simple because it uses a customized, hardware built-in function from their APU (GPU) that costs the developer very little (if anything) in terms of performance, so the expectation is that developers will, of course, take advantage of using it as part of the Pro feature sets. One place where I'm getting hung up though, is that I don't think Sony has completely confirmed that the checkerboard technique also automatically supersamples back to 1080p from a hardware standpoint. That is, in order for it to achieve that supersample back to 1080p, the doubt here is whether or not developers have to enable this to happen themselves -- the PS4's custom checkerboard hardware does not necessarily have the function of handling the supersample function on 1080p displays, instead perhaps requiring devs to have coded their game to re-purpose the 4K checkerboarded image back to a 1080p output manually. Again, as my last post said, that particular Cerny quote from Engadget interview has me feeling more sure that the supersample function is built into the hardware now, though I admit some doubt is starting to return.
I get that Sony has the 1080p native render+base framerate parity mandate in place for all PS4 titles going forward post-Pro launch, and that for some titles that render below 1080p on a base PS4, this will still be an IQ improvement.
It also does pose the question of what the data transfer bandwidth requirements are for the checkerboard technique. If it's handled automatically on the hardware side, I think the supersample back to 1080p might just make it a very slightly higher bandwidth requirement than a normal 1080p signal, but those looking to output to 4K (and with HDR) displays will have to meet the HDMI 2.0 standard. I'm not sure if supersampling back to 1080p means the cable and the display interpret the signal more like a lower-bandwidth 1080p signal (seems more likely to me, if it's handled automatically by the hardware) or as a high-bandwidth 4K signal. I'm just not well-versed enough in the technical aspect of digital a/v signals to have an educated idea of this particular area of concern.
After participating in this thread, I'm currently feeling like Sony's going to deliver the best scenario here, with the built-in checkerboard hardware probably handling the supersampling feature itself and not requiring additional developer input.
Clearly, however, Sony has kind of failed to communicate this clearly.
I think there's still room for doubt, and despite me now moving to feeling a little more assured that it's just going to supersample on 1080p whether or not the developer intends that or not, truth is, Sony hasn't actually specified in an official way to know for sure yet.
Given the impressions of the TGS build running on PS4 Pro, it is absolutely a strong desire for me as FFXV will be one of my first post-Pro titles, and also happens to be one of my most anticipated titles as well.
I understand for sure that Sony has communicated that checkerboarding their games up to 4K on the Pro is relatively simple because it uses a customized, hardware built-in function from their APU (GPU) that costs the developer very little (if anything) in terms of performance, so the expectation is that developers will, of course, take advantage of using it as part of the Pro feature sets. One place where I'm getting hung up though, is that I don't think Sony has completely confirmed that the checkerboard technique also automatically supersamples back to 1080p from a hardware standpoint. That is, in order for it to achieve that supersample back to 1080p, the doubt here is whether or not developers have to enable this to happen themselves -- the PS4's custom checkerboard hardware does not necessarily have the function of handling the supersample function on 1080p displays, instead perhaps requiring devs to have coded their game to re-purpose the 4K checkerboarded image back to a 1080p output manually. Again, as my last post said, that particular Cerny quote from Engadget interview has me feeling more sure that the supersample function is built into the hardware now, though I admit some doubt is starting to return.
I get that Sony has the 1080p native render+base framerate parity mandate in place for all PS4 titles going forward post-Pro launch, and that for some titles that render below 1080p on a base PS4, this will still be an IQ improvement.
It also does pose the question of what the data transfer bandwidth requirements are for the checkerboard technique. If it's handled automatically on the hardware side, I think the supersample back to 1080p might just make it a very slightly higher bandwidth requirement than a normal 1080p signal, but those looking to output to 4K (and with HDR) displays will have to meet the HDMI 2.0 standard. I'm not sure if supersampling back to 1080p means the cable and the display interpret the signal more like a lower-bandwidth 1080p signal (seems more likely to me, if it's handled automatically by the hardware) or as a high-bandwidth 4K signal. I'm just not well-versed enough in the technical aspect of digital a/v signals to have an educated idea of this particular area of concern.
After participating in this thread, I'm currently feeling like Sony's going to deliver the best scenario here, with the built-in checkerboard hardware probably handling the supersampling feature itself and not requiring additional developer input.
Clearly, however, Sony has kind of failed to communicate this clearly.