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Chappelle criticizes Clinton and LGBT activists, defends Trump's sexual assault

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I think it's ridiculous to be taking this second-hand telling of a comedy performance seriously when it removes so much of the context (and possibly details).



"Hateful" might be a bit of hyperbole, especially when you consider...

Except we can see that Chappelle has made many a comment on trans people, like talking about stuff like ‘I support anyone’s right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?’, the aforementioned joke about having sex with a trans person being disgusting, his use of the word "tranny," a joke suggesting that police brutality against trans people being disproportionate would raise more ire than it would be w/ black people (which feeds his oppression Olympics narrative), etc. It is at least better than Tracey Morgan's joke about how he'd kill his son if he was gay (coincidentally that also got the "it's just a joke" defense).
 

sanstesy

Member
I love Dave with all my heart, but would this many people be rushing in to defend stuff like this if it was....idk Dane Cook or Jeff Dunham talking about how they don't want any chicks with dicks standing next to them?

You know the answer to that question. Humans are hypocrites.
 

Kreed

Member
This is not an isolated incident, he has been pretty blunt on this front. I am very safe in my assumption that he is not a friend of the LGBT community and bigoted towards them. Comedians tend to be rough with jokes, yes I understand that but they also tend to skew some truth to what they believe. See Colbert and his persona. A person who cares about LGBT rights does not casually say "Woman with a dick". What would the context even be for a joke about LGBT rights needing to take a back seat and being in front of black rights? What kind of joke is that? My point for asking for examples is just like everything else people are going to show bias for celebs they like. Hell i'm still in denial about Michael Jackson because I don't want to stop listening to his songs. There reaches a point though where this is just stupid to keep shaking your head and going "nope, nope I demand proof I wouldn't otherwise demand for someone I dont like" when it keeps happening.

There's a big difference when discussing celebrities like Michael Jackson and a comedian telling a joke on a stage, where they may be telling you a story from their child hood or making up an imaginary scenario where they are pretending to be a black Godzilla. It is very easy to play "telephone" with comedy and jokes. Example:

What would the context even be for a joke about LGBT rights needing to take a back seat and being in front of black rights? What kind of joke is that?

You are assuming that the joke being described in the article is being described exactly as Dave Chappelle said it with no other information. Personally, I've been on this side of these comedian discussions before and have ended up with "egg on my face" once I heard the actual joke on youtube, that was blown out of proportion/exaggerated/etc... due to an article writer forgetting an important detail or leaving something out. We see this all the time on threads on GAF that don't involve celebrities. Example, we had a thread a few months ago that was titled something along the lines of "College offers black students Segregated Housing" and the first couple of pages were filled with people upset about this taking the article at face value, only later on for us to get another article with a quote from the university that explained that the housing was open to everyone and was just themed for black and other minority students. There's no "bias" in wanting to know more about a story before passing judgement/calling for someone to be fired, especially when we're dealing with someone that creates scenarios like being a black white supremacist.
 

Alienfan

Member
It isn't any different from racist jokes, and Chappelle makes his fair share of those. My only criteria for comedians who make jokes on sensitive material is that they do it fairly. I don't believe it renders him immune to criticism, that's silly. He's a comedian, they pretty much live off criticism.

But I also don't believe that living a magical world where nobody makes jokes about sensitive things is very helpful either. Dave Chappelle could never make a trans joke and transphobic people would still be just as vicious. But you don't have to be transphobic to laugh, either. Some people can take those jokes, some cant.

I personally think it can make you stronger to be able to laugh at such a thing -- if you can't face the criticism in the form of a completely impersonal comedy show, then how do you expect to face it in real life? There won't be an internet mob to defend every victim of a sensitive joke, nor will there ever be some free speech rule that prevents people from making them.


Trying to censor comedians is pointless to me.

Being able to laugh at yourself is great, and Cappelles humour often succeeds in doing that. But that's such a fine line to walk, and his transphobic jokes are nothing other than transphobic. There isn't satire there, or some hidden clever message, it's simply dehumanizing and I'd imagine insulting.

Insults have a lot heavier weight than many people like to think. It's not just a case of having "thicker skin" or being able to laugh at yourself. If your at a stage in your life when your brain is in heavy development (childhood,teenage years etc, the years in which bullying tends to happen the most), insults will have huge lasting effects on your psyche. When a comedians jokes borderline on insults they're no longer jokes anynore.

Like for me, when I hear "faggot", it's not a matter of having thin skin or simple being just offended. It's a matter of having heard the word through out my life, more than enough to do me for the rest of my life. It then becomes about taking that word out of people's common vocabulary so that future generations of gay kids might have to endure it less.

I can shrug off the people of the world comparing my relationships to man fucking a chair and calling all of us kiddy-fiddlers (common jokes in old comedy shows). But it's fine, because fewer people speak like that than ever, and I have it pretty good in the grand scheme of things. Transgender folk though, they face even worse comparisons like that every day. They have the thickest of skin out of all of us.

Chappelle segments on transgender people and so called "jokes" (insults in disguise) directed at that group do nothing but harm imo. When you see someone occupying a public stage like that, making those jokes, I think it's incredibly important to call them out for it. We're not even close to a point in time when we can debate the acceptableness of making transgender jokes. Suicide rate is ridiculously high in young transgender teens in part because of how socially acceptable to is to make fun of them and how little support they recieve.
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
Him making fun of everything doesn't negate his attitude on LGBT people being toxic.

You can separate the two while recognizing that one is a problem.
But one should take his jokes for what they are, jokes. Im black and hes extensively made fun of himself and black people. Has anyone asked dave specifically what he feels about it outside of jokes? On a serious note and off stage?
 
There's a big difference when discussing celebrities like Michael Jackson and a comedian telling a joke on a stage, where they may be telling you a story from their child hood or making up an imaginary scenario where they are pretending to be a black Godzilla. It is very easy to play "telephone" with comedy and jokes. Example:



You are assuming that the joke being described in the article is being described exactly as Dave Chappelle said it with no other information. Personally, I've been on this side of these comedian discussions before and have ended up with "egg on my face" once I heard the actual joke on youtube, that was blown out of proportion/exaggerated/etc... due to an article writer forgetting an important detail or leaving something out. We see this all the time on threads on GAF that don't involve celebrities. Example, we had a thread a few months ago that was titled something along the lines of "College offers black students Segregated Housing" and the first couple of pages were filled with people upset about this taking the article at face value, only later on for us to get another article with a quote from the university that explained that the housing was open to everyone and was just themed for black and other minority students. There's no "bias" in wanting to know more about a story before passing judgement/calling for someone to be fired, especially when we're dealing with someone that creates scenarios like being a black white supremacist.

If you take umbrage with the lack of proper context, I ask that maybe you criticize Chappelle for creating this defense. It's only by his doing that we are unable to properly assess the joke.
 
But that makes no sense because it's not competition and black people like myself are also in the LGBT community.

Not saying his opinion is right just pointing out why he may have said that quote

Zero people in this thread have sought to force him to not have that opinion, and indeed no one has the ability to do that.

Just trying to defend a comedian I enjoy not because anyone is taking his rights away, but because hes getting a lot of hate and in my eyes he is one of the best comedians ever.

If the hate is from his differing opinions or people not enjoying his jokes I still am going to defend him.


Stuff like this.

Yeah if this is accurate it's time to go back home.

put Dave Chappelle in the garbage where he belongs
 

koji kabuto

Member
I don't know how to feel about this,I mean Dave is just a comedian of course he is going to say something stupid and offensive.

But in the other hand he needs to understand that alot of things have changed in the past 10 years and this kind of jokes are not accept anymore.
 

Air

Banned
I'm not going to post a link to Breitbart, but they should get proper credit for actually breaking this "story." I'll just post the title of their article so we have a bit more context on what's got us all riled up:

Dave Chappelle Slams Clinton, Defends ‘Most Gangsta Candidate Ever’ Donald Trump

I was actually going to post that if this came out from Breitbart I don't think anyone would take it seriously. If this is true, id like to know what the posters attacking Dave think. I guess the cherry on top would be if they actually find Breitbart to be a reputable source

Edit: yup you're right lmao
 
I feel as though only non-black people would be shocked at Chappelle saying these things (which isn't an endorsement of his views, as I vehemently disagree with them).
 

jurgen

Member
But one should take his jokes for what they are, jokes. Im black and hes extensively made fun of himself and black people. Has anyone asked dave specifically what he feels about it outside of jokes? On a serious note and off stage?

Don't you know? Anything having to deal with with social issues can only be interpreted in binary: hateful or not hateful. Context doesn't mean anything, silly rabbit.
 
Not saying his opinion is right just pointing out why he may have said that quote



Just trying to defend a comedian I enjoy not because anyone is taking his rights away, but because hes getting a lot of hate and in my eyes he is one of the best comedians ever.

If the hate is from his differing opinions or people not enjoying his jokes I still am going to defend him.


Stuff like this.

I will vouch that, given the opportunity, jrh2 wouldn't actually put Chappelle in a garbage can
 
I feel like a such a hypocrite when trying to make arguments like "Its just a joke" or "We dont know the context of this" or "What was the intent behind his words"

But he's professional comedian, those responses are actually relevant.
 
I'm not going to post a link to Breitbart, but they should get proper credit for actually breaking this "story." I'll just post the title of their article so we have a bit more context on what's got us all riled up:

Dave Chappelle Slams Clinton, Defends ‘Most Gangsta Candidate Ever’ Donald Trump

I can not wait for this election to be over just so Gaf can chill.
 

Air

Banned
I don't know how to respond to the flaw in your reasoning without breaking character, so I concede defeat I guess.

You made a bad argument, you should just own it. The poster I was responding to made a hyperbolic statement and was very reductive in his point of view. How can anyone really have a conversation speaking with someone like that?
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
Don't you know? Anything having to deal with with social issues can only be interpreted in binary: hateful or not hateful. Context doesn't mean anything, silly rabbit.
No sir/mam, that requires too much logic for this day and age.
 

OnPoint

Member
Not saying his opinion is right just pointing out why he may have said that quote



Just trying to defend a comedian I enjoy not because anyone is taking his rights away, but because hes getting a lot of hate and in my eyes he is one of the best comedians ever.

If the hate is from his differing opinions or people not enjoying his jokes I still am going to defend him.


Stuff like this.

I'm not upset he has a different opinion than me. I'm upset that he's saying things that are wrong. I don't think Trump was taking about consensual situations. I don't think the models he walked in on agreed to it ahead of time, and just grabbing someone by the pussy does not imply there was time to ask for consent and respect wishes. Hence the immediacy of 'just' in the context of the situation.

I also don't agree that we should put one disadvantaged groups needs and rights before another. That kind of thinking is outdated and not how we progress as a society.

Defend him all you want. But I think he's pretty wrong if these are the things he said.
 
Here's the thing, and lets use the joke about cis people having sex with a trans person in spite of them finding it gross. It's not really a joke that pokes fun at the cis people in the skit, it's a joke that pokes fun at the trans person. It's a joke that says "trans people are gross," and in turn many viewers will relate to that. Such a joke is a very easy joke to make, too. Comparatively, a lot of jokes about/at black people seek to not make fun of black people, but make fun of racism and stereotypes. Chappelle quit the show when that stopped being the case and he observed that people wanted him more and more to make jokes at the expense of black people. Even if Chappelle is not hateful, he is using a double standard. The man literally quit his own show because the producers were expecting him to do with his humor about black people what he finds acceptable to do with humor about trans people.

Everyone disappoints you eventually..

you haven't disappointed me

63993e4a6ca1d92ba81a1127d2ecc9c9.jpg
 
I will vouch that, given the opportunity, jrh2 wouldn't actually put Chappelle in a garbage can

Jesus

I'm not upset he has a different opinion than me. I'm upset that he's saying things that are wrong. I don't think Trump was taking about consensual situations. I don't think the models he walked in on agreed to it ahead of time, and just grabbing someone by the pussy does not imply there was time to ask for consent and respect wishes. Hence the immediacy of 'just' in the context of the situation.

I also don't agree that we should put one disadvantaged groups needs and rights before another. That kind of thinking is outdated and not how we progress as a society.

Defend him all you want. But I think he's pretty wrong if these are the things he said.

Thank you.


you haven't disappointed me

63993e4a6ca1d92ba81a1127d2ecc9c9.jpg

Didn't he eat cats alive?
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
Is it hypocritical to say im tired of the sensitive generation when in fact im the one being sensitive about them being sensitive?

I guess i will leave this thread now.
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
I like Dave okay, but never really assumed he was socially progressive. It'd be a bummer if he was making that part of his comedy. I'd be curious to hear the finished product.

South Park's "both sides are bad" bullshit has not insignificantly contributed to the current political and social climate.
I'm not here to defend South Park at all, but I think their "both sides are bad" argument this season has actually been kind of a nuanced thing.

The people in the world of South Park are so USED to saying "a douche vs a shit sandwhich" that they are ignoring the fact that the douche (Trump in this case) is literally saying out loud, "I'm not qualified! Please vote for her! What the fuck am I doing up here!?"

The joke below the surface has mostly been that a stupid and overly nostalgic combined with Ckinton getting in her own way have blinded the public to the fact that one candidate is actually clearly inferior. It's not like the residents of SP are being portrayed as correct When they say "they are both bad"

I don't like the show, but have caught some recent eps (new baby) and think people are being lazy in their critique. .

Obviously, There is plenty of problematic shit on that show, but this aspect is kinda bizarre that people bring it up.
 

WarLox

Member
I don't know how to feel about this,I mean Dave is just a comedian of course he is going to say something stupid and offensive.

But in the other hand he needs to understand that alot of things have changed in the past 10 years and this kind of jokes are not accept anymore.

The author didn't mention the audience booing or walking out. Funny things are funny, but you dont have to like it... and thats fine.

Child rape/molestation isn't funny, but we all laughed at this:

latest
 

RedHill

Banned
Dave has made fun of everything under the moon. This is no different.

Yall can chill.
How is this making fun? Where is even the attempt of the joke? Just because he's a comedian doesn't mean everything he ever says can be written off as "humor"
 

jurgen

Member
How is this making fun? Where is even the attempt of the joke? Just because he's a comedian doesn't mean everything he ever says can be written off as "humor"

I swear I read this same quote when someone was upset on Facebook about Amy Schumer making fun of Trump at her show.
 
And that's pretty much the main thing that bugs me this election. Trump has paper trails, scandals, closed businesses, and is on video, audio, and twitter saying some vile shit and gets excused and hand waved . Oh but we just "know" Hilary ain't right, though. She obviously leaked that stuff, which is worse than Trump actually doing it. I don't trust either as far as I can throw them, but it's clear who is less trustworthy and fit to be in charge for 4-8 years.

And fuck off with the oppression olympics bullshit, Chappelle. No one wins except whoever is already at the top when you get all the downtrodden people fighting amongst themselves.
 

jacobeid

Banned
Yellow Springs is one of the most hippy, free-spirited places that I've ever been to (it's about 40 minutes outside of Columbus). I know a lot of residents aren't happy with Clinton but I didn't expect Dave to say this.

He hangs out at a coffee house in YS quite often and I've ran into him there twice. Spoke to him once....guess you never know. I'm curious to see how residents react to this news.
 
You made a bad argument, you should just own it. The poster I was responding to made a hyperbolic statement and was very reductive in his point of view. How can anyone really have a conversation speaking with someone like that?

I know I made a bad argument, that was the point. What's funny is that you realize that argument is bullshit when it's directed towards you but not when it's directed towards people criticizing Chappelle. Or did you realize I was joking when I wrote that post? If so, I don't understand your response at all and this is getting very confusing.
 

Air

Banned
We're acting like the person quoting him saw the set. If criticism is unacceptable because we don't know the full context, how can "it's just a joke" be acceptable without proper context? What if the proper context showed that it wasn't a joke, but was in fact a rant by a man fed up?

Don't you think it's possible the writer has a narrative? As another poster pointed out, the story was broken out by Breitbart. Do you find them to be a reputable source? I wrote it earlier because I actually saw a set by him in September and nothing he said there was hateful (maybe you could say ignorant, but because most of the people here didn't see it I don't see the point in talking about it). The point is that if he was going for a larger joke he could build up to it with other jokes. There were times where even in the show I went to you can tell what he was editing out (he would give a tell).

The issue with this thread is that it's about a comedian whose constantly worried about being taken out of context, taken out of context by a shady news outlet all with people not realizing that they might have a narrative so could intentionally leave out parts of his jokes.

I know I made a bad argument, that was the point. What's funny is that you realize that argument is bullshit when it's directed towards you but not when it's directed towards people criticizing Chappelle. Or did you realize I was joking when I wrote that post? If so, I don't understand your response at all and this is getting very confusing.

I did not know you were joking when you wrote the post. Apologies for any confusion
 
But that makes no sense because it's not competition and black people like myself are also in the LGBT community.

Imo some african americans do not like it when their struggle is compared to the lbgt or equality for women.

Im not saying its right but this is how some feel.They feel that they are more oppressed then both so for them its not the same.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
What I do find a bit interesting is how Dave got out of the mainstream comedy game after the Chappelle show in part because a lot mainstream white America was taking his comedy and sketches at face value and reading into his use of the N Word so easily on main stream TV as the ability for them to use it and also absconding with his other racially charged jokes and running them into the ground and not getting the point at all of the original joke. He did not take this well and for good reason. People were using his jokes for the wrong reasons without actually getting the point he was trying to make with sketches like the Niggar Family or the racial draft or so on and so forth.

I wonder how Dave would feel if he looked at his jokes in context of the alt right and other elements basically jumping on them without looking at anything but surface details and using his routines to further their agenda of hatred and bigotry? Would he see that his jokes could be used against entire minority groups by the ignorant and bigoted and would that have the same effect on him as white folks abusing his Chappelle show skits about race and black people?
 

Breads

Banned
This isn't the first time Chappelle's comedy took the form of ignorant/ hateful/ self serving commentary.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt as long as there are no tapes but if he said what said he will find no quarter with me. Oppression olympics is disgusting any way you slice it and you don't get a free pass from criticism just because you're funny.

A lot of arguments can be made about what constitutes as jokes or comedy and I don't want to get into a discussion about this because context is everything and if you walked away from the public eye to play wow for 13 years and come back from it thinking that punching down like this should be accepted at face value no questions asked then you are out of touch and deserve the criticism you are receiving.

What I do find a bit interesting is how Dave got out of the mainstream comedy game after the Chappelle show in part because a lot mainstream white America was taking his comedy and sketches at face value and reading into his use of the N Word so easily on main stream TV as the ability for them to use it and also absconding with his other racially charged jokes and running them into the ground and not getting the point at all of the original joke.

I wonder how Dave would feel if he looked at his jokes in context of the alt right and other elements basically jumping on them without looking at anything but surface details and using his routines to further their agenda of hatred and bigotry? Would he see that his jokes could be used against entire minority groups by the ignorant and bigoted and would that have the same effect on him as white folks abusing his Chappelle show skits about race and black people?

Look up his cameraman comment. His being wary of this is why he supposedly took a break from the show to begin with - CC putting up unaired episodes being what closed the deal for him.
 
Don't you think it's possible the writer has a narrative? As another poster pointed out, the story was broken out by Breitbart. Do you find them to be a reputable source? I wrote it earlier because I actually saw a set by him in September and nothing he said there was hateful (maybe you could say ignorant, but because most of the people here didn't see it I don't see the point in talking about it). The point is that if he was going for a larger joke he could build up to it with other jokes. There were times where even in the show I went to you can tell what he was editing out (he would give a tell).

The issue with this thread is that it's about a comedian whose constantly worried about being taken out of context, taken out of context by a shady news outlet all with people not realizing that they might have a narrative so could intentionally leave out parts of his jokes.

But it is not as if we have not seen Dave make these very same jokes, sometimes more offensive than what is being presented. That's ultimately the issue, and as I noted, Dave jokes about trans people in a very different way than he jokes about black people.

But yes, it is absolutely possible that the person who quoted Dave could have an agenda; however, it is just as likely that Chappelle is telling a joke about trans people that simply does not work.

Evil dave only allowing people who pay to hear his jokes.

If Dave doesn't want to be taken out of context, it will inevitably be pointed out that his decision is part of why he may be taken out of context.
 
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